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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:23 pm 
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Terrific article. Was longer and more detailed than my most optimistic expectations. :P

I'd like to get hold of the magazine.

Sponge, do you have any idea whether it is sold on this side of the pond ?

I thought about ordering the issue from the publisher ; wouldn't even mind paying the postage in this case. :lol:
But it looks like subscription only. ~~~ or am I wrong ?


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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:59 pm 
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maarten wrote:
Terrific article. Was longer and more detailed than my most optimistic expectations. :P

I'd like to get hold of the magazine.

Sponge, do you have any idea whether it is sold on this side of the pond ?

I thought about ordering the issue from the publisher ; wouldn't even mind paying the postage in this case. :lol:
But it looks like subscription only. ~~~ or am I wrong ?


Not sure about retail outlets on the UK street but you can buy single issues online here at Newsstand.co.uk....
http://www.newsstand.co.uk/198-Intl-Cur ... ption.aspx
It is the Feb 14th issue you want. It will be available on the 9th Feb and if ordered now will be dispatched on 10th Feb. Price £5.69 (there may be UK postage on top of that).

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Other mainstream media reports....
abc News: http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/sci ... d=12854858
msnbc: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41458725
Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/0 ... 19433.html
Jewish Journal: http://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog ... _20110207/
Hollywood Reporter: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/p ... time-97120
Tampabay Online: http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/feb/07 ... -breaking/
CNN: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/07/mo ... people-44/

Aside from the awesome MSNBC interview with the author Lawrence Wright, although many of the subsequent reports on the New Yorker article don't tell us anything more, it is still interesting to keep an eye on the comments sections of these articles for the sad assed scientologists forced or compelled to engage in one or both of their usual worn-out old traits without even having read the article. 1) misdirection and weak dead agenting on the author/publishers and/or 2) labelling the story teller, ex-scientologist Paul Haggis, as an apostate and therefore somehow not credible (because that's what "many religious scholars" say........Yes I'm looking at you J.R.Lewis and the rest).
If you chose to respond to the scientologists comments then don't get sucked into their misdirection and keep badgering them about the actual content of the New Yorker article.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:14 pm 
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Thanks for the info, Sponge. :)
Will follow this up, though will check in town at retail outlets first.


edit ; Just ordered it from Newsstand. The £5.69 includes the postage, Sponge. ( and anybody else who may be interested.) So, that's not too bad. :D

Will not be despatched until the 10th.


Last edited by maarten on Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:44 pm 
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Smurf wrote:
ordinarycitizen wrote:
Sponge wrote:
US TV. This morning, The Today Show is supposed to be doing an item on the FBI investigating the cult of scientology. Those of you can can watch, please post a summary.


I saw this too late to see the segment live, but it's already up on NBC's website.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/26184891/#41456859

Excellent video. I love the cult's usual spiel.. if you want to find out the real, undistorted truth of Scientology, you can visit any church. In other words, if you want to find out the truth about male rape,you need to commit a serious enough crime so you can go to prison & experience it for yourself. Same bonehead marketing..


Indeed, it was a an excellent interview.

Apparently, Wright will be on NPR with Terry Goss "Fresh Air" programme Tomorrow, Tuesday 8th Feb.

I wonder if he will now have a queue of publishers falling over themselves to do a deal with him on his proposed new book and ensure a prompt release later this year.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:28 pm 
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This is EXCELLENT! Truly, The New Yorker is one of the most prestigious magazines in the United States -- perhaps the most prestigious!

This is the kind of FEARLESS journalism that we all need to fight this horrible cult! We should all offer the New Yorker and Lawrence Wright our thanks and positive feedback -- especially since they will no doubt get backlash from the "church." We need to remind them that their truth-seeking is worth risking lawsuits...

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Wright hit it on the head with this in depth, well researched piece. The MSNBC Today Show this morning featuring a full 10-minute interview will spike interest in the article, particularly due to the FBI, Human Trafficking, Abuses and Investigation.

Hopefully these will bring out more reports to the FBI. The article lists out what constitutes trafficking, etc.; and I was very hopeful when I read that the federal agents kept the the local FBI in Clearwater in the dark just in case they were "infiltrated". Great!

"At the time Haggis was doing his research, the F.B.I. was conducting its own investigation. In December, 2009, Tricia Whitehill, a special agent from the Los Angeles office, flew to Florida to interview former members of the church in the F.B.I.’s office in downtown Clearwater, which happens to be directly across the street from Scientology’s spiritual headquarters. Tom De Vocht, who spoke with Whitehill, told me, “I understood that the investigation had been going on for quite a while.” He says Whitehill confided that she hadn’t told the local agents what the investigation was about, in case the office had been infiltrated. Amy Scobee spoke to the F.B.I. for two days. “They wanted a full download about the abuse,” she told me.

Whitehill and Valerie Venegas, the lead agent on the case, also interviewed former Sea Org members in California. One of them was Gary Morehead, who had been the head of security at the Gold Base; he left the church in 1996. In February, 2010, he spoke to Whitehill and told her that he had developed a “blow drill” to track down Sea Org members who left Gold Base. “We got wickedly good at it,” he says. In thirteen years, he estimates, he and his security team brought more than a hundred Sea Org members back to the base. When emotional, spiritual, or psychological pressure failed to work, Morehead says, physical force was sometimes used to bring escapees back. (The church says that blow drills do not exist.)

Whitehill and Venegas worked on a special task force devoted to human trafficking. The laws regarding trafficking were built largely around forced prostitution, but they also pertain to slave labor. Under federal law, slavery is defined, in part, by the use of coercion, torture, starvation, imprisonment, threats, and psychological abuse. The California penal code lists several indicators that someone may be a victim of human trafficking: signs of trauma or fatigue; being afraid or unable to talk, because of censorship by others or security measures that prevent communication with others; working in one place without the freedom to move about; owing a debt to one’s employer; and not having control over identification documents. Those conditions echo the testimony of many former Sea Org members who lived at the Gold Base."

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011 ... z1DIol0Uod

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 9:44 pm 
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Sponge wrote:
Other mainstream media reports....
abc News: http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/sci ... d=12854858
msnbc: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41458725
Huffington Post: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/0 ... 19433.html
Jewish Journal: http://www.jewishjournal.com/thegodblog ... _20110207/
Hollywood Reporter: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/p ... time-97120
Tampabay Online: http://www2.tbo.com/content/2011/feb/07 ... -breaking/
CNN: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/07/mo ... people-44/

Aside from the awesome MSNBC interview with the author Lawrence Wright, although many of the subsequent reports on the New Yorker article don't tell us anything more, it is still interesting to keep an eye on the comments sections of these articles for the sad assed scientologists forced or compelled to engage in one or both of their usual worn-out old traits without even having read the article. 1) misdirection and weak dead agenting on the author/publishers and/or 2) labelling the story teller, ex-scientologist Paul Haggis, as an apostate and therefore somehow not credible (because that's what "many religious scholars" say........Yes I'm looking at you J.R.Lewis and the rest).
If you chose to respond to the scientologists comments then don't get sucked into their misdirection and keep badgering them about the actual content of the New Yorker article.



Some more.....
New York Post: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/f ... xedbpIUgKM
CBS News: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31749_162-2 ... 91698.html
Yahoo News: http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookou ... rafficking
National Post: http://arts.nationalpost.com/2011/02/07 ... ientology/
NY Mag: http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/20 ... ology.html
The Atlantic Wire: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions ... ation-6883
The Australian: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/wo ... 6001969979
NY Daily News: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... _repo.html
The Independent (UK): http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 07428.html
Toronto Star: http://www.thestar.com/news/world/artic ... cientology
AOL News: http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/07/churc ... se-allega/
Telegraph UK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... y-FBI.html
Wall Street Journal: http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/02/ ... he-healer/
Slate Magazine: http://www.slate.com/BLOGS/blogs/browbe ... nerds.aspx
Belfast Telegraph: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 76617.html
St.Petersburg Times FL: http://www.tampabay.com/news/fbi-invest ... ay/1150248
NY Post #2: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manh ... LvQAe3iGFI
Emirates 25/7: http://www.emirates247.com/entertainmen ... 8-1.353314
Fox News: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... port-says/
St.Petersburg Times "The Juice" column: http://www.tampabay.com/blogs/juice/con ... tom-cruise
(More will be edited in here. Not minor blogs/gossip, just mainstream. Check back to this post regularly).

Plus some amusing headlines about Josh Brolin's recollections....

Josh Brolin Recalls 'Bizarre' Moment Watching John Travolta Practice Scientology on Marlon Brando
Hollywood Reporter 7th Feb 2011
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/j ... ment-97126
Josh Brolin: Scientology 'Really F**king Bizarre'
Huffington Post 7th Feb 2011
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/0 ... 19750.html

For those who like nice bite-sized chunks, Movieline has this rundown of.....
The 13 Most Intriguing Revelations of The New Yorker’s Paul Haggis/Scientology Expose
http://www.movieline.com/2011/02/the-13 ... expose.php
I'll quote the titles and you can go to the link for the text.....
1. Paul Haggis is a Hell of a Fund-Raiser…
2. …But Wasn’t an Especially Good Kid
3. John Travolta Apparently Healed Marlon Brando
4. An Epic Intervention Almost Derailed The Next Three Days
5. Haggis Never Read DIanetics — and O.T. III Was “Madness”
6. We Were Thisclose to A Haggis/Hubbard Screenwriting Collaboration
7. And There’s a Haggis-Directed Scientology Commercial Somewhere
8. Don’t Compare David Miscavige to Martin Luther King Jr
9. David Miscavige’s Wife Has “Disappeared”
10. “Blowing” is Hard
11. Tommy Davis is a Staggering Liar
12. An E-Meter is Basically a Scale for Your Brain
13. Haggis Doubts the Church is Through With Him


msnbc Today Show now on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=022sAK_s3cg

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:33 pm 
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Great news! I was just sent a forward of the article by a friend who saw it on Facebook! The word's getting out...

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 10:45 pm 
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From the Village Voice, Tony Ortega's take on it....
Scientology in The New Yorker: Lawrence Wright Buries L. Ron Hubbard For Good
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/02/scientology_in.php
I think he likes it.
Quote:
We've been looking forward for some time to New Yorker writer Lawrence Wright's account of the defection of 'Crash' director Paul Haggis from Scientology.

But this thing. Wow. I think my inner Thetan just fainted.

[...]



The New Yorker The Front Row blog
Screen Idols
Posted by Richard Brody
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/movies/2011/02/screen-idols.html
Quote:
<snipped gigantic prelude>

This is a long prelude to a brief but unreserved recommendation to read
Lawrence Wright’s extraordinary Profile, this week in the magazine, of the writer and director Paul
Haggis, which details the filmmaker’s experiences with the Church of Scientology. It’s no surprise that
people living with the pressures of Hollywood business and creation should seek out a system of thought
that is based on the principle of helping its followers to achieve their goals in the face of inner and
outer obstacles, and, in particular, that actors, confronted with the irrationality of their successes
and failures, should fall under the sway of a coach or a teacher, such as Milton Katselas (as mentioned
by Wright) or Lee Strasberg (as discussed by Elia Kazan in his superb autobiography “A Life”), whom
they’d elevate to a guru-like status. Similarly, it’s no surprise that L. Ron Hubbard, a working writer,
should have created what Wright calls “a system of self-betterment” and thereby inspired a religion. The
question, in Wright’s piece, regards the practicalities that followed.

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:33 pm 
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Quote:
I suggested to Davis that Scientology didn’t seem to work if people at the highest levels of spiritual attainment were actually liars, adulterers, wife beaters, and embezzlers.



I have made that observation to my familial clams...their response...people change! Now they are horrible liars.

This article really hit it all. I love the Hubbard as fake war hero, fake college graduate.


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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:51 pm 
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Yes, the part about Hubbard's war record could have been an article of its own:

Quote:
At the meeting, Davis and I also discussed Hubbard’s war record. His voice filling with emotion, he said that, if it was true that Hubbard had not been injured, then “the injuries that he handled by the use of Dianetics procedures were never handled, because they were injuries that never existed; therefore, Dianetics is based on a lie; therefore, Scientology is based on a lie.” He concluded, “The fact of the matter is that Mr. Hubbard was a war hero.”

In the binders that Davis provided, there was a letter from the U.S. Naval Hospital in Oakland, dated December 1, 1945. The letter states that Hubbard had been hospitalized that year for a duodenal ulcer, but was “technically pronounced ‘fit for duty.’ ” This was the same period during which Hubbard claimed to have been blinded and lame. Davis had highlighted a passage: “Eyesight very poor, beginning with conjunctivitis actinic in 1942. Lame in right hip from service connected injury. Infection in bone. Not misconduct, all service connected.” Davis added later that, according to Robert Heinlein, Hubbard’s ankles had suffered a “drumhead-type injury”; this can result, Davis explained, “when the ship is torpedoed or bombed.”

Davis acknowledged that some of Hubbard’s medical records did not appear to corroborate Hubbard’s version of events. But Scientology had culled other records that did confirm Hubbard’s story, including documents from the National Archives in St. Louis. The man who did the research, Davis said, was “Mr. X.”

Davis explained, “Anyone who saw ‘J.F.K.’ remembers a scene on the Mall where Kevin Costner’s character goes and meets with a man named Mr. X, who’s played by Donald Sutherland.” In the film, Mr. X is an embittered intelligence agent who explains that the Kennedy assassination was actually a coup staged by the military-industrial complex. In real life, Davis said, Mr. X was Colonel Leroy Fletcher Prouty, who had worked in the Office of Special Operations. (Oliver Stone, who directed “J.F.K.,” says that Mr. X was a composite character, based in part on Prouty.) In the eighties, Prouty worked as a consultant for Scientology.

“We finally got so frustrated with this point of conflicting medical records that we took all of Mr. Hubbard’s records to Fletcher Prouty,” Davis told me. “He actually solved the conundrum for us.” According to Davis, Prouty explained to the church representatives that, because Hubbard had an “intelligence background,” his records were subjected to a process known as “sheep-dipping.” Davis explained that this was military parlance for “what gets done to a set of records for an intelligence officer. And, essentially, they create two sets.” He said, “Fletcher Prouty basically issued an affidavit saying L. Ron Hubbard’s records were sheep-dipped.” Prouty died in 2001.

Davis later sent me a copy of what he said was a document that confirmed Hubbard’s heroism: a “Notice of Separation from the U.S. Naval Service,” dated December 6, 1945. The document specifies medals won by Hubbard, including a Purple Heart with a Palm, implying that he was wounded in action twice. But John E. Bircher, the spokesman for the Military Order of the Purple Heart, wrote to me that the Navy uses gold and silver stars, “NOT a palm,” to indicate multiple wounds. Davis included a photograph of medals that Hubbard supposedly won. Two of the medals in the photograph weren’t even created until after Hubbard left active service.

After filing a request with the National Archives in St. Louis, The New Yorker obtained what archivists assured us were Hubbard’s complete military records—more than nine hundred pages. Nowhere in the file is there mention of Hubbard’s being wounded in battle or breaking his feet. X-rays taken of Hubbard’s right shoulder and hip showed calcium deposits, but there was no evidence of any bone or joint disease in his ankle.

There is a “Notice of Separation” in the records, but it is not the one that Davis sent me. The differences in the two documents are telling. The St. Louis document indicates that Hubbard earned four medals for service, but they reflect no distinction or valor. In the church document, his job preference after the service is listed as “Studio (screen writing)”; in the official record, it is “uncertain.” The church document indicates, falsely, that Hubbard completed four years of college, obtaining a degree in civil engineering. The official document correctly notes two years of college and no degree.

On the church document, the commanding officer who signed off on Hubbard’s separation was “Howard D. Thompson, Lt. Cmdr.” The file contains a letter, from 2000, to another researcher, who had written for more information about Thompson.
An analyst with the National Archives responded that the records of commissioned naval officers at that time had been reviewed, and “there was no Howard D. Thompson listed.”

The church, after being informed of these discrepancies, said, “Our expert on military records has advised us that, in his considered opinion, there is nothing in the Thompson notice that would lead him to question its validity.” Eric Voelz, an archivist who has worked at the St. Louis archive for three decades, looked at the document and pronounced it a forgery.

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Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/


Last edited by Sponge on Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
added some paragraph spaces to make it easier to read


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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:02 am 
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And the hits just keep a'comin...

Entertainment Weekly, Feb 7, 2011
http://insidemovies.ew.com/2011/02/07/paul-haggis-scientology/

PerezHilton, Feb 7, 2011
http://perezhilton.com/2011-02-07-paul-haggis-opens-up-about-scientology

Slate Magazine, Feb 7, 2011
http://www.slate.com/BLOGS/blogs/browbeat/archive/2011/02/07/the-new-yorker-s-massive-scientology-article-candy-for-journalism-nerds.aspx

The Atlantic, Feb 7, 2011
[urlhttp://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2011/02/scientology-fact-checked.html][/url]

IFC, Feb 7, 2011
[url][http://www.ifc.com/news/2011/02/the-must-read-article-of-the-d.php/url]

Digital Spy, Feb 7, 2011
http://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/news/a302576/josh-brolin-scientology-is-bizarre.html

NY Daily News, Feb 7, 2011
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2011/02/07/2011-02-07_fbi_probing_allegations_of_human_trafficking_and_enslavement_in_scientology_repo.html

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:07 am 
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msnbc Today Show now on youtube:
Today Show: Is Church of Scientology violating human rights?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=022sAK_s3cg

also, the NYDaily News article posted earlier has a poll:
Image
Vote Now! (registration not required)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... _repo.html

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 Post subject: Re: The New Yorker article by Lawrence Wright
PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2011 1:19 am 
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Sponge wrote:
msnbc Today Show now on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=022sAK_s3cg


Thanks, Sponge! I very much enjoyed this interview. Got a chance to check out Wright's demeanor and was impressed it was as even keeled as his written article. He touches on a number of talking points in a relatively short time. The TV show and now video will help spark the interest in reading the whole article. It's touted as 26 pages, I know, but those are half pages, so it's more like 13 pages. And it's hard to put down.

I can't help wondering if the downtown Clearwater office of the FBI, right across from Scientology, (really?!!) I wonder if they got the word that they weren't informed of an investigation because of possible infiltration suspected? (Not that a golden gilded ecclesiastical leader like Miscavige would sink to bribes or anything so lowly and unholy, so of course, I'm not suggesting)

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