narcanon Vs the 12 step movement?

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gingernut
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narcanon Vs the 12 step movement?

Post by gingernut » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:11 pm

I had a problem with drink and drugs a few years ago, and i chose to get help and get well through alcoholics anonymous and the 12 steps program. Today i have a good life and i have made several friends who are in recovery. Some of whom go to meetings of Narcotics anonymous as well.

I found this site because several of my NA friends gave anecdotal reports of Narcanon members going to NA meetings trying to recruit in much the same way that scientology volunteer ministers try to recruit in places like ground zero and london in the aftermath of terror attacks, Attempting to disrupt NA meetings and infiltrate them. I had never heard of this group so i googled " narcanon" found this site and the rest is history.

I would like to stress at this point that I have never witnessed this first hand myself and all evidence i have is purely anecdotal from NA members in major cities where cos is active. However from what we know of the way cos operates i find these anecdotes entiely believable.

I am still fairly new and uninformed, can anyone tell my why the cos would attempt to distroy or take over NA or any other 12 step movement? BEcause i have surfed the net and come up blank. Do they see 12 step groups as part of the big psych conspiracy? is it because NA and AA are politically neutral when it comes to psych drugs and the medical profession? is it because - shock horror- ! NA and AA dont CHARGE MONEY and help people sober up FOR FREE? :shock: :shock:

Or are self help groups an easy hunting ground for young,vaulnerable people with problems in their life and a disposable income? Probably the latter.

anyone with any thoughts? especially about what NA and AA could potentially do about this if it becomes a problem

ginger

Don Carlo
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Post by Don Carlo » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:57 pm

Your theories are good. Since Narcanon is a non-centralized organization, it's harder to get such a message out, but it is possible.

Can anyone confirm that Narconon believes an alcoholic can still drink a little? If so, this conflicts with the Alcoholics Anonymous and Narcanon approach.

amour9109
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Post by amour9109 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:11 pm

Narconon does not "support" AA based reasoning. Narconon believes that you can end an addiction permanently, therefore, there is no need for AA. Narconon is a branch of the Church of Scientology, presenting Scientology doctrine and practices as a therapy for drug abusers. Narconon does not use the Twelve Steps. It's bullocks!
I feel sorry for those who have gone to Narconon as the source for their "recovery", as it is only temporary, considering their far-fetched teachings related to drug and alcohol abuse.

olska
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Post by olska » Sat Jul 08, 2006 5:54 pm

NarCONon is just another entrance point into scientology. It is a recruitment scheme designed to "help" people become scientologists ... oh, and incidentally, claims to "handle" their drug or alcohol problem.

Scientology's position is that scientology is the ONLY "workable technology" on the planet for any kind of mental or spiritual problems and/or development, and that EVERYONE on the planet will eventually be a scientologist.

Anyone, anywhere, with or without any kind of stress or distress in their life is a potential candidate to be recruited into scientology. Those who are in distress -- who are suffering from something that is "ruining" their life and are seeking solutions to that "ruin" -- are prime candidates.

Scientology recruitment "tech" goes like this:

1) find the person's ruin
2) show them how scientology can "fix" it

People who have realized they have a drug or alcohol problem that is "ruining" their life and are seeking help for it are thus perfect candidates for recruitment into scientology.

Scientologists believe and promote the idea that the NarCONon program permanently eliminates the "cravings" whereas the 12-step program does not. This is simply their belief -- it's not based on any facts or studies done regarding either 12-step or scientology; and it's not true.

Scientologists know almost nothing at all about the 12-step program -- just as they know almost nothing at all about anything else outside scientology. They know the 12-step program is highly regarded and "successful" -- that many addicts have achieved "success" with it; but in their mind, scientology is ALWAYS better than any other method.

12-step programs are almost the exact opposite of scientology. I've done both (a different program, not NA) -- scientology first. With all the money and time I spent in scientlogy, my personal "ruin" was never even addressed! I found relief through the 12-step program and will be forever grateful for all the kindness, understanding, and FREE help that was offered to me by others within that program.

While I find it totally disgusting, it does not surprise me that they have finally come around to using NA as a "recruitment pool" for NarCONon/ scientology.

Please understand that the scientologists "on the ground" who are doing the recruiting ACTUALLY BELIEVE they are doing "the right thing" -- and they are fanatics in this belief. The word "Ronbot" is often used here to refer to the true-believer scientologist, and it is appropriate -- they do not think, they only act, with single-minded devotion to the idea of turning EVERYONE in their path into scientologists.

You cannot reason with them and it is pointless to try; just politely (or not politely) refuse to be caught up in their madness.

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Roan
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Post by Roan » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:51 am

olska wrote:Scientologists know almost nothing at all about the 12-step program -- just as they know almost nothing at all about anything else outside scientology.
...12-step programs are almost the exact opposite of scientology.
Great post, olska... all of it.
“The failure to condemn an activity is indeed, an offer of tacit approval.
All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.” — Edmund Burke

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machwon
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Post by machwon » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:21 pm

Yea, we all know my stance on 12 step. But I'd refer anyone to 12 step before I'd even say the word 'Narcanon.' Sure AA and 12-steps indoctrinates new Christians that vote republican :yawn: , but Narcanon indoctrinates people to scientology and we all know; Scientology kills. :shock:

Besides sitting in a sauna, running on a treadmill, and taking lots of niacin does not get you off drugs or alcohol, getting off drugs and alcohol gets you off of drugs and alcohol. Sure sweating helps, but that's one small little step that they blow up to solve all problems.

Some pointers i got from my doctor about quitting smoking (mind you I still smoke) were:

Exercise.
Stay away from caffeine, other addictions trigger the nicotine craving.
Don't drink (any one who drinks and smokes knows, drinking makes you want to smoke)
drink lots of water.
chew gum, take up sunflower seeds...etc. it replaces a lost activity and relieves anxiety.
tell your friends you are quiting, they will encourage you to death.
sit at non-smoking tables, avoid looking or being around people who are smoking (ohhh that sweet sweet smell)
buy a stress ball, either that or lose all your friends because you pissed them off from being an a#$hole.

I need to quit soon. :smoker:
Ewwwah!

http://jimjesus.com

(∃x∈S:φ(x))→ (∀x∈S:φ(x)) = Scientology logic

Don Carlo
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Post by Don Carlo » Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:58 pm

Machwon, I have a close friend who is using many of those tips PLUS hypnosis PLUS the nicotine patch PLUS being "really motivated this time." I think this combination might actually work. I remember reading that nicotine is more addictive than heroin. Good luck.

brownjedi
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Post by brownjedi » Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:19 pm

I think that the one thing AA has over Narcanon, one of many, is that there is an end, not one that leaves you a mental slave to a cult.

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secularpatriot
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Post by secularpatriot » Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:34 pm

machwon wrote: 12-steps indoctrinates new Christians that vote republican
In 16 years, I've never been to any AA meeting where anyone tried to sway me from being the pinko-commie homo I am --or even brought up politics or Christianity at all-- but since AA is completely de-centralized, maybe it happens where you live. I don't think it's part of the design, though. They do talk about God, but not Christianity itself.

I'm personally creeped out by the idea of Narconon coming into AA and NA meetings where people are desperate and vulnerable in order to sell their expensive snake-oil placebo. But since all anyone has to do be an AA or NA "member" is have a desire to stop drinking (and/or stop doing drugs) I don't know if there is a policy in place that would keep them out.

Clamdiggah13
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Re: narcanon Vs the 12 step movement?

Post by Clamdiggah13 » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:54 pm

Yes, valley org (Sacramento) has successfully infiltrated the rehab industry. The narconon brand was disbanded in the region a few years ago, however, It’s doubtful COS has disbanded all that potential rehab $$. I was recently drugged, hypnotized and date raped by a scientologist freakshow. Subsequently, an old high school friend (from 3500 miles away) all of a sudden showed up in my life. He gave me a rundown of his current situation. He joined a 12-step program that he’s been paying tens of thousands of dollars for. He described it as “unorthodox” treatment that he could not “discuss in public.” He has his masters in mechanical engineering yet he has chosen to not reenter the workforce because he sees the need for so much more treatment.he is willfully draining his 401k in hopes of being cured. He volunteers his time at a “hackers co-op and started his own small business instead of utilizing his skills and degrees. He’s in a very vulnerable state and is stuck in this loop of perpetual self-flagellation. He mentioned a few things about his treatment including enneagrams and personality tests and tones. It seemed far to much of a coincidence that all of a sudden he surfaced. It infuriates me to think CoS has trapped my intelligent, caring friend. Rehab is the perfect recruiting ground.

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