neil c
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Post by neil c » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:58 am

Today, myself and 6 critics picketed the org Birmingham, England.

Immediately the police arrived, and due to complaints by OSA the police moved us away from the org, turned our amplified sound system off, and BANNED us from distributing Operation Clambake Webmsaster Andreas' Xenu Flyers to public - claiming they incite religious hatred!

More details coming soon.

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Post by pitbull » Sun Oct 03, 2004 2:22 am

Very very interesting. Might I suggest you put forth your intentions in a manifesto and petition for a the same type of religious status enjoyed by the church.
Use the historical precident of good Old Henry the 8 seperating form the catholic church. England is just find with religious expression. They just aren't fond of disturbers of the peace.

Better yet, stand around the org passing out certificates for a free pint of Ale that just happen to have some comments about the church on it.
There's an old saying: when the going gets tough - pit bulls call a Scientologist."
-David Miscavige- 8 October, 1993

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Post by Girlfriend » Sun Oct 03, 2004 4:55 am

Send the Birmingham police copies of these:

"The government is satisfied that Scientology is socially harmful. It alienates members of families from each other and attributes squalid and disgraceful motives to all who oppose it; its authoritarian principles and practice are a potential menace to the personality and well being of those so deluded as to become followers; above all, its methods can be a serious danger to the health of those who submit to them... There is no power under existing law to prohibit the practice of Scientology; but the government has concluded that it is so objectionable that it would be right to take all steps within its power to curb its growth."

- Kenneth Robinson, British Minister of Health

"Scientology is both immoral and socially obnoxious...It is corrupt, sinister and dangerous. It is corrupt because it is based on lies and deceit and has its real objective money and power for Mr. Hubbard... It is sinister because it indulges in infamous practices both to its adherents who do not toe the line unquestionly and to those who criticize it or oppose it. It is dangerous because it is out to capture people and to indoctrinate and brainwash them so they become the unquestioning captives and tools of the cult, withdrawn from ordinary thought, living, and relationships with others."

- Justice Latey, ruling in the High Court of London

"I have refused permission for the Church of Scientology to use Trafalgar Square to promote their so-called 'anti-drugs' campaign because it is a medically unproven policy which I am advised could be dangerous.

"The square will be used for many purposes whilst I am Mayor, including many political demonstrations and rallies which I will disagree with. However, it would not be responsible for me to allow it to be used to advertise a spurious medical programme which many drugs professionals are concerned about.'

He added: "Nothing about the activities of this group leads me to believe that this is anything other than a cynical method of promoting the Scientology creed. I would urge Londoners not to be duped by their expensive campaigning."

- Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London

Chris Owen used to have a webpage - UK repository of Judicial Opinions - but I can't find it, looks like the link is broken....

Thanks for the report, Neil. I'm sure you guys will find a way around that stupid denial of free speech. :)

neil c
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Post by neil c » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:51 pm

More info

(on picture link click on 'Brum') ... cientology

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Post by admin » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:18 am

I am shocked. You must get the media on this!!!
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[b]- Life is not a test.[/b]

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Post by gonuclear » Mon Oct 04, 2004 11:03 am

That is the exact kind of story that is constantly linked thru via

Behind that police behavior, at the highest level, is the UN Genocide treaty, and, by way of implementing that, various hate crime laws. They are even beginning to pop up here in the United States, despite running head on into the first ammendment in the Bill of Rights. Interesting that the Swieno's are saavy enough to use the law like that. Eventually it could easily come back against them, of course. Anyways, I want a link thru to forward to and This is stuff that must be shared.


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Post by wyahcj » Wed Oct 13, 2004 11:18 am

I think this relates to the story I asked Andreas to forward in July this year entitled "New religious hate law UK". I expressed my concern in a letter to both the Home Secretary and the shadow Home Secretary at the time, but received no response.


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Post by mikedewolf » Wed Oct 13, 2004 9:17 pm

Since the First Ammendment technically applies only in the US, what exactly does UK law say about Freedom of Speech?
Mike de Wolf
"A science that depends on Authority alone is a breath in the wind of truth and is therefore no science at all." - L. Ron Hubbard

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Post by hartley » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:13 pm

The new law is specifically aimed at protecting religious beliefs, not religious organisations. Unfortunately that means we are up against the same mental block that the CoS constantly exploits: the initial inability of newcomers to see that the organisation and the beliefs are not the same thing.

Yes, Roland's famous leaflet is no longer viable in the UK as it's mostly about beliefs. We'll just have to be more careful about what we say, and will probably have running debates with the police until they lean how to interpret the law correctly.
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Post by wyahcj » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:18 pm

I've raised the point about the religious hate law with the Opposition party in Parliament, and received a reply which indicates this law has not yet been enacted.

In part, the response to my letter was:

"I and my colleagues in the Conservative Party have a number of concerns about any such law, and the point you have raised about the potential misuse of such a law by cults is a very important one. If these proposals should come before Parliament, this is one of the many points we in the Conservative Party will raise"

If indeed the protesters in Birmingham were moved away because of inciting religious hatred, I think the police were acting improperly. Future protesters may wish to put this point to the police should the same situation arise again.

Many thanks to BG for the quotes provided. I used a number of them in my letter.


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Post by bettybean » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:46 pm

I might be wrong here (i'm new to all this) but i thought that CoS was not officially a religion in the UK?
because if it isnt legally a religion, surely you cant be inciting religious hatred?

perhaps my info is out of date, but i am interested in participating in protests in london, specifically at jive aces (scientology promoting jazz band) gigs.

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Post by free_for_real » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:06 am

betty bean, welcome to the message board, I do not know about the status in UK, but I'm sure someone here does.

Great that you want to protest.

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Post by bettybean » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:18 am

thanks for the welcome ;)

i didnt know much about scientology (cept that it was some daft pseudo religion!) but one night i was out at my regular evening out dancing and the band playing were handing out flyers, as lots of bands do....only these were different, alongside the usual band promo stuff they contained promotional material about scientology.

now i'm a reasonably liberal lady, but there is a time and a place for everything ......i would have taken offence at any religion or cult targeting potential members in this way .. just as i'm sure most churches would get pretty angry if i started to perform my preferred choice of "vernacular jazz dance" at an event of theirs.

i handed the leaflet back and told them very clearly that i didnt want their scientology rubbish foisted upon me and decided that i would no longer attend that club night when this band were playing (they play about once every 6 weeks) .....

then i started looking up scientology online and discovered that this band are often used to promote CoS ....and of course i have accessed an extraordinary amount of information both pro and anti scientology.

armed with this new information i would ideally like to produce a factual, non sensational leaflet directing anyone interested in scientology to some of the anti websites, after all people do have the right to make up their own minds but only when armed with the facts. i would like to distribute these leaflets to the exact same people that the jive aces are handing the pro scientology material to, at the same time. not a picket as such, more like offering both sides of the coin.

if anyone would like to help, either physically standing beside me, or has any ideas for a leaflet that is calm and factual without being too sensational (rational!) please do post.

i have not had any personal experience of CoS but i would like to take this opportunity to offer my sincere respect for those here that have experienced CoS and decided to leave (and speak out) and those fighting to get their loved ones away from CoS.

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Post by programmer_guy » Sun Dec 05, 2004 3:57 am

betty bean,

"...i would ideally like to produce a factual, non sensational leaflet..."

Surf around on this site. I think that there may be something like that here.

For something along the lines of one-pager info on various subjects take a
look at the Info Pack on this website.

(What is the name of that band? Just curious.)

(Message edited by Programmer_guy on December 05, 2004)
codo ergo sum.

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Post by nec_v20 » Sun Dec 05, 2004 9:47 pm

Scientology is a criminal organisation posing as a "religion".

The only "religions" recognised as such in the UK are those that have more than 5% adherence within a census.

Jedi Knight is recognised as a religion in the UK. Scientology is not.

Scientology is nowhere, thus tell the filth to take their butt buddies elsewhere.

The UK does have a regulated area of doubt and uncertainty. Scientology fails miserably to fall within those boundaries.
You deprive me of solitude, whilst affording no companionship whatsoever.

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