Guest Book 2003

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merlin
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by merlin » Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:30 am

Hi, Annamarie.

It helps to differentiate between the idea and the reality. I do it this way:
Scientology = the idea, the body of ideas, the philosophy - "Hubbardthink."

$cientology or $cientology Inc = the business, the scam, the cult, the so-called church, the sham religion - "Co$".

Yes, they have about as much power as money can buy.

But they have not the power of truth, so they feel compelled to be sinister.

"So, who is it dat's in da trap, mon?" 8)

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villageidiot
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by villageidiot » Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:25 am

James Bond,
It would be interesting to see if you could win against m&k&$cios. The problem is that you would have to hire an attorney and they would drag the case on and on and you would have to pay and pay. That is how they win. They would just financially run you into the ground.
I would not suggest just going to court yourself because everything has to be in legalese.
All judges are or were attorneys and they protect their profession.
Maybe if you have some sort of free legal groups in your area you could present your case to them with your suggestions. Eventually, in this country there will be some legal battles to deal with people who abuse the system like $cios.
The average standard charge for an attorney to appear in court is around $1400.00 per visit. That does not include the prep work.

4scientology
Posts: 101
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by 4scientology » Sat Jan 04, 2003 2:05 pm

AlfredEinstein,

My religion is Scientology. I want to practice my religion. However, a company/organization called Scientology is prohibiting the free exercise of the religion of Scientology by not allowing me to find and communicate with other Scientologists.

Amendment I of the United States Constitution states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The question is actually a question for the Supreme Court of the United States. Is the constitution of the United States the senior law of the land as written, or does it first have to be interpreted by a lower court?

Is an amplified and generalized trademark law -- as amplified and generalized by the Church of Scientology -- senior to the constitution?

declared02
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by declared02 » Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:29 am

Hello!

In the past I too thought there could be some value in the writings, books, regarding Scientology and Dianetics.

Seems to unravel from the trappings takes time to destimulate, in fact, years.

Best of luck to you!

4scientology
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by 4scientology » Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:22 am

Declared02,

Life itself teaches. You hit a tree skiing and, one way or another, you 'learn' not to do it again.

Scientology is a theta experience where you slam into a mental image of a tree rather than the tree itself.

I think having a good mentor in Scientology is important. The efforts of RTC to remove the mentor does not work as well. Books and clay table training alone aren't enough.

There are a lot of training methods. Half the people think punishment is a good way to teach people. You should never punish a poor animal, they think. You should only teach humans by punishment.

There are a lot of training methods. Some are better than others. Some are better in the hands of an expert.

When I was in Scientology, I never discarded what I learned in the world. The opposite is true too. Assimilate, don't discard...

RTC is far, far more suppressive to Freezone Scientologists than is Clambake. Yeah, one Clambaker suggested killing me once, but I think that was just a passing urge. He just had to fart...

someone
Posts: 12
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by someone » Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:56 am

Hi there,

I am not a qualified lawyer, and I am unfamiliar with the church's internal legal system (Comm EV).

The website states ... "I intended to show pictures of the family getting auditing sessions. I intended to show that a person could audit his family up the levels 0 to IV as taught in the Academies of the Church of Scientology."

The mark Scientology is federaly registered for use in (among others): educational services, films, and pastoral counseling.

The RTC cannot be expected to have to register for every permutation of the word Scientology. That would be impossible. The permutation you have chosen ([url=http:\4scientology.com]4scientology[/url]) would appear to imply "for scientology", i.e. for scientology go to this website.

If I were to work really hard to make a quality product, how is someone going to distinguish my product from all the others out there. I label it with my name or mark. If I work hard to make a good name for myself, I want that name to be protected.

The same goes for the reverse. If I find an inferior product, I can show my friends the label or mark of that product, and warn them away from it.

Cheers
.

4scientology
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by 4scientology » Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:17 am

Someone from OSA perhaps?

The people that sell domain names suggested the name 4Scientology. They ought to know what is legal.

Many words have more than one meaning. Let's try that with Scientology.

Scientology
1) A registered trademark for the church of Scientology.
2) A religion taught by the Church of Scientology.
3) ...

Even the word scientology can have several meanings. One can legally say he has studied the religion of Scientology. He just cannot form a splinter group and call it Scientology. This is differentiation is clear even from the HCOB policy letters. Helena K., Kobrin has MU’s (Or she is an SP) A lot of lawyers do/are you know.

Perhaps Scientology is trying to own words. RTC seems to be trying to own the religion in defiance of Amendment I of the United States Constitution.

Next they will expect the words science and -logy to be implicitly covered by their trademark agreement.

someone
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by someone » Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:08 pm

You still have the freedom of speech. Newspapers can and do use the word Scientology to report on the religion.

The Church of Scientology put a lot of effort into establishing the mark “Scientology”. They have a right not to have that mark stolen from them. If I were to claim that my restaurant was a religious church, can I call it MacDonald’s? Freedom of religion must respect the other people’s freedom. Laws are there to protect those freedoms. If I create a religion that requires me to murder others, does that mean I can murder others?

If the religion requires the use of those marks without authorisation from their owner, then it is part of the religion to steal. From my position it looks as though the mark is being used to brand your religious teachings. I may be wrong. Ask a lawyer how well he or she can defend your position

You can use a different mark/brand to label your religion. You can then claim that your religion is substantially the same as Mr Hubbard's religion. You can use the mark "Scientology" as a label or pointer to Mr Hubbard's teachings. But you can't give religious teachings and brand them "Scientology".

4scientology
Posts: 101
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by 4scientology » Sun Jan 05, 2003 5:17 pm

Someone said:
You still have the freedom of speech. Newspapers can and do use the word Scientology to report on the religion.

My domain name could be thought of as a newspaper headline on the subject of Scientology.

The absurdity of it all is that my domain name was about as visible as one 8x10 sheet of paper stuck to one tree in the middle of a very large wooded area. There were not links, pointers, or search engines that pointed to the site. The site had no content and no visitors.

On that piece of paper was a word that said 4Scientology.com. That was all. For that, I got a letter from Moxon & Kobrin alleging that my ownership of 4SCIENTOLOGY.COM constitutes trademark infringement.

Helena K., Kobrin
3055 Wilshire Blvd.
Los Angeles
California
United States

Isn't that an infringement of freedom of speech as well as freedom of religion?

Vexatious litigation is that which is brought, regardless of its merits (usually it has none) solely to harass or subdue an adversary. Well this wasn't vexatious litigation since nothing was filed in court. But I haven't actually had the letter forwarded yet.

someone
Posts: 12
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by someone » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:17 pm

James Bond (4scientology) wrote:
My domain name could be thought of as a newspaper headline on the subject of Scientology.
Alternatively it could be seen as the title of the newspaper. If I called my newspaper the “Washington Post”, I would infringe on their trademark. This is what you would argue in court if your case went to trial. However I suspect you would find it difficult to argue a plausible case as to why you are using the trademark.
James Bond (4scientology) wrote:
There were not links, pointers, or search engines that pointed to the site. The site had no content and no visitors.
Ms Kobrin’s Law firm found it, which means that it must have been advertised somewhere.

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admin
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by admin » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:21 pm

Please keep debates in the other Topics. This Guest Book is just for small greetings from visitors.

Thanks!
Andreas @ www.xenu.net
[b]- Life is not a test.[/b]

4scientology
Posts: 101
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by 4scientology » Sun Jan 05, 2003 9:41 pm

Someone,

My reply is under Opinions and Debate, James Bond vs .006-7/8 ["Someone"]

dindy
Posts: 291
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Location: Caister Centre [between Hamilton & St Catharines] niagara, Ontario, Canada [but lived in 6 countries
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by dindy » Mon Jan 06, 2003 3:36 am

Freeborn - Just a thanks - should we have a thread on "how to stop putdowns"?


Friend - I liked your welcome "most of us here do NOT hate scientologists, but rather we want them to be free of the abuses that their own "church" perpetrates on them. Please join us in telling the world about this!"

Maybe that should be at the start of every guestbook time start for visitors to see - w a welcome


I Loki - I liked your input - It helps to differentiate between the idea and the reality. I do it this way:
Scientology = the idea, the body of ideas, the philosophy - "Hubbardthink."

$cientology or $cientology Inc = the business, the scam, the cult, the so-called church, the sham religion - "Co$".

Yes, they have about as much power as money can buy.

But they have not the power of truth, so they feel compelled to be sinister ------

Maybe that could be cut down & also on the top of welcome time thread for new visitors to see w a welcome

Thanks for the food for thought

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villageidiot
Posts: 981
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by villageidiot » Mon Jan 06, 2003 11:55 am

Realizing that $cios members are duped, brainwashed, slow, in serious need of help, etc.,
I should feel some compassion for them but when I consider the damage that they do by supporting the scam my wishes go towards them having a lot more auditing and a long career in $cios.

malvakai
Posts: 2
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ARCHIVE 2003

Post by malvakai » Wed Jan 08, 2003 6:14 am

I'm new. Call me Mal :)
I didnt like the church right from the start. Friends, who were close enough to be our only witnesses to our very small marraige, no longer accept messages from us there. :(

Locked
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