Workability

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ThewholeoftheLaw
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Workability

Post by ThewholeoftheLaw » Fri Dec 27, 2013 8:01 pm

So can we actually talk about the workability of scientology, because some aspects seem to make sense and work for example the ARC triangle is something which when applied actually gets results, as is the case with stable datum, so can anyone Tell us what they think about it, have they tried it, has it worked, if Hubbard is so bare how did he create these, if not where did he steal them from???

Don Carlo
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Re: Workability

Post by Don Carlo » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:37 am

Welcome TWOTL. Here is an excellent thread I'mglib started, entitled
What's wrong with ARC?
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=33693

Don Carlo
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Re: Workability

Post by Don Carlo » Sat Dec 28, 2013 6:39 am

Virginia McLaughry wrote in mid-2012 Scientology – Do You Have An ARC Break?
which, like others, criticizes ARC - that it has an attitude of superiority, is about controlling others, and above all is about stopping any anti-CoS talk. http://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/201 ... arc-break/

The same website has a near-obsessive search for the origins of the "top" triangle - what CoS now calls KRC - and a theory that LRH never invented it, and it was a hasty rewrite to disguise an earlier, more religious triangle: it
would be a triangle with the Supreme Being at one corner, the MEST universe at another, and the theta universe at the third.
http://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com/201 ... you-think/

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Demented LRH
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Re: Workability

Post by Demented LRH » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:36 pm

I wrote about the ARC triangle at the thread that I started, Hubbard-style Word Clearing. The definition of triangle contains logical inconsistencies which make it unworkable. In other words, it is impossible to comprehend the idea behind the triangle. You might think that the triangle works, but it is your own interpretation of it, not the triangle itself.

When I was a Scientologist, I didn't realize that the triangle definition is faulty, but even then it seemed trivial to me and not worthy my attention.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

Don Carlo
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Re: Workability

Post by Don Carlo » Sat Dec 28, 2013 4:48 pm

Thanks, Demented LRH. Hubbard-style Word Clearing is at viewtopic.php?f=9&t=197902

ThewholeoftheLaw
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Re: Workability

Post by ThewholeoftheLaw » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:00 am

Interesting, I have reviewed the materials and they are partly what I was looking for.....but what about the stable datum? Also, when I was in Scn. i remember someone using an example of ARC which stated "you always communicate with people about things which you either like or agree on"

ThewholeoftheLaw
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Re: Workability

Post by ThewholeoftheLaw » Sun Dec 29, 2013 12:02 am

Btw Don Carlo, thanks for the welcome, I genuinely am excited to have various discussions with such people :D :D :D

Don Carlo
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Re: Workability

Post by Don Carlo » Sun Dec 29, 2013 1:03 am

You're welcome. You had three posts approved, so you're now a regular poster.

Caroline said in 2011
In this 1956 lecture to students of his 15th American Advanced Clinical Course, Hubbard presents his "confusion and stable datum" game. Later in the lecture he says that truth is a "no-game condition," justifies why truth is not run in Scientology processing, and explains why Scientology is a big fat pack of lies -- to make people happy.

Hubbard identifies what he calls "the Scientology Proverb:" "Man is unhappy without lies." He was of course lying, plus black PRing Homo sapiens while he was at it. The real Scientology proverb is: Pathological liars like Hubbard are unhappy without lies. This can also be stated: Scientologists are unhappy without lies.

But there are wogs who aren't unhappy without lies. And all you Scientologists, all your lying isn't making us happy, and really, it can't honestly be making you happy either.
Hubbard wrote:Now, what is a stable datum and what is a confusion? A traffic cop standing on a corner is the stable datum to the traffic's confusion, or should be. Of course, in these days of traffic experts, he is actually the confusion in charge of the stable datum. The stable datum is, there is traffic.

Now, by consideration, then, any datum can be stable to any confusion by consideration only. The subject of insanity itself is the study of stable data. What is this man's stable data? "Horses sleep in beds." Takes care of the whole subject of wives. Well, it does. You look into his head, you'll find out that the whole subject of wives is entirely answered by the fact that horses sleep in beds. This explains wives.

Now, you want me to tell you some bridge to make this logical, and that's what you want him to tell you. And that's why his insanity annoys you. There's no gradient scale; there's no jump. And so we say it's insane. But actually "horses sleep in beds" does not explain the behavior of all wives everywhere at all time so, therefore, cannot act as the stable datum to wives. It's only his stable datum.

But if you took that stable datum away from him, you would make him twice as mad or ten times as mad as he is now. It's a terribly bad stable datum, don't you see: "horses sleep in beds" and that explains wives. "Therefore, the confusion of my wife going away and coming back, and I find these men's handkerchiefs in her handbag, and I get these strange hotel bills and motor court bills and so forth, and it's all explained. I mean, horses sleep in beds. Well, that's the way it is."

Now, you take away this crazy datum-as crazy as it is, it's still a stable datum-he then goes into a frantic confusion on the subject of wives. Now, you say that's the cause of his insanity. No. That is the cause of the pattern of his insanity. Get this singular difference: The cause of his insanity is a lack of stable data which is stable data. That's the cause of his insanity. The cause of his insanity is not stable data, nor is it confusion. Confusion isn't the cause of his insanity either. The cause of his insanity goes way back on the track to the postulate and consideration that he needs a stable datum to remedy a confusion. Now, that's the cause of his insanity, if you want it that way. But of course, he wouldn't have any kind of a game at all unless he had some kind of a confusion-stable datum game.

[…]

Now, these days we don't dare run truth. Truth is a no-game condition. The whole list of no-game--I'm going into this very thoroughly as time goes on--but this whole list of things called no-game condition are the truths for which all of the great soothsayers, thinkers of history have searched. And if you run them on a preclear, you kill him. Why? Everything he has and every game he has will start to run out, leaving him with nothing. You'd disenfranchise him in a hurry.

Well, I don't know that this is the intention of yoga, to just disenfranchise everybody and make monkeys out of the lot of them. But it's essentially what it does. Because they're going after truth, truth, truth, truth, truth, truth, truth. See? In the process of going after truth, truth, truth, truth, truth, they of course run out all kinds of odds and ends. But because they can't run anything out, they really only restimulate confusion and they leave people in a hypnotized condition.

Now, what, what would you call all these things called a game condition, then? They're a pack of lies. So we can make this postulate: Man is unhappy (according to an old Latin proverb) without laws. Very, very old proverb. Well, the Scientology proverb is: Man is unhappy without lies. It's a fact, too-literal, demonstrable fact in all auditing. You take away one too many lies from him, you force him just enough further into truth, and he'll collapse. The reason for this is all contained in confusion and stable datum, and duplication.

A real stable datum can stand a terrific amount of duplication. A false stable datum can't stand any duplication. You got that? But confronting this fact is something else: It takes a certain amount of false truths to enter randomity into existence. That argues against this other fact, don't you see? These two balance, one against the other.

Hubbard, L. (1956, 16 October). Mimicry. 15th American Advanced Clinical Course. Lecture conducted from Washington, D. C.
Here's an example of how right now Scientology is using the confusion and the stable datum game to extract money, recruit suckers and justify their ludicrous arrogance and their criminal targeting of the SP class. For decades under Hubbard and Miscavige Scientologists have been employing the chaos of disasters to install the "stable datum" of Scientology. (Thanks for the heads-up, Sponge.)
DO YOU WANT TO CONTINUE LIVING IN A WORLD LIKE THIS?

Click here to read a message from LRH to Scientology in Britain.

IDEAL ORGS, WHY NOW?

You have all seen the insanity that has been being wreaked across England [see the first pictures of our VMs in action]. Police are saying they have never seen anything like it and 16,000 police were just deployed across London to stop the criminals. This is the reactive mind in pure unbridled restimulation.

The majority of the looters are children under the age of 20 who have been drugged, are illiterate and in psych hands.

It is too close to home. Birmingham Org had to be evacuated yesterday at 2pm. Manchester Org had a human chain surrounding it as rioters were running freely through the City. Staff members have had to be on 24 hour shifts to protect our technology and buildings.

IT IS TIME TO ACT.

We are the ONLY people who have the actual technology to handle the source of this.

Orgs are the emanation point for the solutions.


An Ideal Org is the stable datum and anchor point for the community. An Ideal Org brings governments on board with our solutions so they too are educating and halting illiteracy, teaching children the truth about drugs before they start, bringing to light the truth of psychiatry, letting the world know of their Human Rights, showing people honest way to happiness and at the end, getting multitudes of them to hear for the first time, the precious words, "This is the Session".

We MUST open all UK Ideal Orgs NOW.

No one can turn a blind eye to the fact that honest people have had their life accomplishments ruined in a blink of an eye by criminals and while the government and emergency services have started taking action - it is NOT the answer. Dianetics & Scientology ARE!

You can also turn on the news now and start seeing the essence of what Britain is all about. British people pulling together to clean up the community and bring it back. Britain endures and pulls through. But the solution is NOT only "pulling through"! We must bring TRUTH to the British public. So this DOES NOT keep happening. For thousands of years Britain has persevered made it through the worst of times, but it is time for us to Flourish and Prosper! And that is ONLY done with Dianetics & Scientology and letting people know they are IMORTAL SPIRITUAL BEINGS that SOMETHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT and THEY CAN GO FREE!


We have a strategy - Birmingham is next. By putting that stable datum there on the cross roads of the UK, and the world, we will then be putting sanity not only into that community and England, but to the Planet. The designs for Birmingham Ideal Org are DONE and the Org is READY TO OPEN. ALL THAT IS NEEDED ARE THE FUNDS!!!

Your donation will make ALL the difference. We are requesting that all public look past the immediate problems and see into the future of a beautiful Britain that is once again calmly and sanely guiding the rest of the world towards truth.

If everyone does pull together, in true British spirit this WILL be done and we WILL have achieved LRH's postulate of the First Cleared Country, a Cleared UK. He said this for a reason and today it is more clear than ever. With this Britain can stay UNITED once and for all and we can use this entheta to pull off the Big Win.

We would like to suggest for you to do a significant donation or complete your next status towards the Birmingham Ideal Org. If you would prefer to donate towards another UK Ideal Org, that of course is welcome. (For information on your current status, please call the below phone number or reply to this email and you will be answered immediately).

All who make this commitment and decide to show the SPs who are trying to drag Britain down that it CANNOT be done because SCIENTOLOGY is here will be commended - but more than that you will have put your eternal footprint on the Ideal Organisations which will be spanning this spectacular continent.

We thank you for being there and for being a true UK public as LRH said here:

"In the past few years, with all the hysteria of which America is capable, I did not have an opportunity to build an operation which would stand until I came to Great Britain. The temper, competence and stability of the British people has permitted this. I am more than proud of the British H.A.S. I count upon it and it alone to carry the entire growth of this science and whatever it may promise and accomplish for the sanity and relief of man."

We are not allowing the hysteria to continue. The time is NOW.

Click to donate online

Or call Tamara Richardson at 07507-559-699 or you can come into Saint Hill or your local Org and deliver it personally.

"A civilization without insanity, without criminals and without war, where the able can prosper and honest beings can have rights, and where Man is free to rise to greater heights, are the aims of Scientology" - LRH


Source: wwp
Source: Caroline post on page 5 of the OCMB thread Hubbard and Scientology's "Life is a Game" Philosophy, at viewtopic.php?f=9&t=36746&p=404163

Another interesting read is STABLE Datums that make Scientologists UNSTABLE, a long and lively thread on Ex-Scientologist Message Board, at http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.p ... s-UNSTABLE

I have a relative in CoS, but wasn't in myself, so I let others argue training and beliefs.

ThewholeoftheLaw
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Re: Workability

Post by ThewholeoftheLaw » Sun Dec 29, 2013 2:29 am

Interesting, thank you a lot, I also went on a solo mission trying to find out about it's possible roots and making some interesting discoveries :D

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Demented LRH
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Re: Workability

Post by Demented LRH » Mon Dec 30, 2013 2:51 pm

As a Scientologist, I wanted to study Dianetics only, anything else, including the theta crap, was of no interest to me (I called it “crap” because I was an atheist at that time). My Scientology goal was to reach the Class V Auditor Level, after that I was planning to do Dianetics research on my own.

The ARC Triangle was on my checklist, I had to move pass it in order to continue my climb on the Bridge (I had reached Level 0 only before leaving the Church).

I read the HCOB containing the ARC Triangle data and paused to evaluate it. The text was easy, there were no unknown words in it. I didn’t have time to analyze the text, that is why I didn’t find logical errors in it. But I had to interpret it in order to move beyond it.

The course supervisor put me on the e-meter and ask if there are words in the text that I do not understand. “No”, I said. My needle was floating. To make sure that I understood everything he asked me to give definitions of several words, including the word “affinity”, which I did without hesitation. “What is the main idea of the ARC Triangle?”, said the supervisor. “In order to reach common objective a group of people must successfully communicate with each other”, I said. The auditor told me that now I can move to the next section.

The idea behind the ARC Triangle seemed trivial to me, I thought it was as old as our civilization; I didn’t credit LRH with the invention of the Triangle.

My classmate could not understand the Triangle idea, I thought that she was kind of slow, which was, probably, true. I told her what I thought the Triangle HCOB meant. However, she wasn’t so lucky -- the course supervisor, who was a substitute of our regular supervisor, told her that she completely misunderstood the HCOB and has to clear the words.

The basic knowledge that I took from this incident was that the ARC Triangle text has more than one interpretation. That didn’t bother me at all because the Triangle material and the Dianetics material were completely unrelated to each other.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: Workability

Post by Demented LRH » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:05 pm

Looking back at my Scientology years, I would say that I believed 100% in Dianetics and 0% in the theta theory. Everything else that Hubbard wrote seemed correct to me albeit trivial.

Take the 8 dynamics for instance -- I didn’t think that they were based on a wrong idea, but the dynamics data itself seemed unimportant to me. Besides, the number, 8, looked excessive to me; I would rather go with 3 dynamics -- self, family and society.

Frankly, I thought that the clay demos are intended for the individuals who are slow if not retarded. I didn’t think that, being an intelligent person, I needed this clay shit. I was correct, as I discovered shortly after I turned against Scientology -- clay demos are used to train people with severe mental disabilities to communicate with the outside world.

I despised the demo kit -- it was a waste of time for me, I used it only once when a substitute course supervisor told me to (our regular course supervisor didn’t tell us that we should use the silly kit to enlighten ourselves).

I don’t know the source of the demo kit idea because I couldn’t find it anywhere; perhaps, Hubbard invented it when he was drunk or something.

There was other Hubbard stuff that seemed useless to me, although I couldn’t say right from the bat that it was incorrect.
Last edited by Demented LRH on Mon Dec 30, 2013 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

Don Carlo
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Re: Workability

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:47 pm

The new age and occult religions, including Aleister Crowley's, in the 1940's and 1950's were full of triangles. "Communication" was a big and NEW post World War II buzzword. Wikipedia's article on "Affinity" is not about group hugs and mystical brotherhood, but about its use by cold-blooded marketing execs to sell sell sell. "Reality" is regarded by Scientology as what you can get people to agree on, especially the claimed reality that CoS is all-good, no-bad. It is not surprising that these three words got put together.

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Re: Workability

Post by Demented LRH » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:07 pm

I was reading Volume I of Dianetics Series when I run into the description of a technique developed by a team of University of Chicago psychologists (I read their article prior to the study of Volume I). I immediately recognized the technique; it had nothing in common with Dianetics auditing, which was kind of strange because this material was not supposed to be in a Scientology book. At that time I didn’t think that this was a case of plagiarism -- I thought that coincidentally Hubbard and the psychologists discovered this technique roughly at the same time, which sometimes happens in sciences.

After I left CoS I learned that Hubbard plagiarized valuable psychological techniques. This shows that there are Scientology methods that could be used to help patients. However, Hubbard didn’t plagiarized a lot of techniques, just a handful of them. Thus you would have to sift through the mountains of Hubbard shit in order to find pearls in them.

There is another thing you might want to consider -- being an idiot, Hubbard couldn’t fully understand any psychological technique, in order to use it to the fullest extend you would have to read the original article, not Hubbard’s paraphrase of it.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

Don Carlo
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: Workability

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:30 pm

LRH grabbed others' ideas like a magpie grabs shiny objects.
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photo from http://planningthejourney.tumblr.com/

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