Toney, hav eyou ever asked yourself, after all that has happened, why you are still here? What really kept you from slipping off the slope into the other world? I mean, have you given any thought to that? Could it be your strong will? That part of you that truly wants to live?

Tell me something and I am trying to be as compassionate as possible....because I am.....I want to know, so tell me.....WHY haven't you succeeded and WHY is suicide your only answer? I really want to know why you believe that.

Shelby - I *think* Toney's beef right now is the way this board operates. Feel free to correct me, Toney. We all are here for the most part to help fight the good fight against the CofS, BUT for whatever reason, a lot of members of this board are very judgemental. Toney, again feel free to correct me, is trying to point out that the general treatment of people not part of the accepted "clique" here is not very good. Even ex-Scn's who come here for help, who do not follow in with the boards current "party line" are ostracized. I believe Toney is trying to show that by re-capping this thread, not to go back to his problems. Which, I should point out, a LOT of ex-members of cults go through very similar things as Toney has/is going through. So, if more do come here, he is (again, correct me if I am wrong) trying to show that we should be more open and caring to those people and their belief's and experiences.

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Dying is not a free exit card from this universe Toney. Glad you are still with us (for now at least). I was going to PM you awhile back to see how things were going but I read a post where you stated you disabled your PM or something to that effect. Anyway, nice to hear from you.

Bear in mind that dying is not spiraling UP from life. You are spiraling further DOWNWARD. Once you are dead for awhile you will be itching and praying to come back to this plane of existence. While you are here now, why not attempt to deal with it now. Whatever is impossible to confront now is not going to go away simply because you are dead. All you will have accomplished is to add another layer to the difficulties. Hang around for awhile. I'm not writing this because I'm some sort of pedant - I was there, often.

But Toney, life isn't a fairy tale and I don't think it ever was meant to be.

Now, before I go on, PLEASE know that everything I say is with compassion. I have not placed any judgments upon you and I respect everything you are saying and your decision, if it's really your decision. I will say, I think it's a sucky decision.

In my belief system, we came here with an agreement to experience certain things for soul growth. But, i will stop there. I have to say, twice now? That should tell you something. You aren't ready to go and i think you know that. I really don't think you want to go. I think, however, what you are looking for is relief from your pain....whatever that pain is, emotional, physical, mental.

If you had really made the final decision to end your experiences on this side of the veil, you would have left by now. NOTHING could have stopped your soul from staying here. I believe, with all my heart, that when the soul has finally had enough, it will leave.

And frankly, I think you have a lot to offer, just from your posts on the last two pages, you are obviously intelligent, have much to offer, can think pretty clearly and quite frankly, you are crying out your pain....over much. However, to me, it is obvious your lessons here are not complete. You still have more experiences. You still have more to offer. Why would you want to stop all that is decreed?

Toney, I really don't think you want to do this. What I think you are seeking is relief from the pain you feel. You also have to ask yourself, would you really be relieved from the pain you feel if you did end your experiences here? What exactly would you have learned? And, is it really the growth your soul seeks? Peace.

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But, what I don't understand, Toney, is why? WHY? I can accept your decision and respect it, but I can't understand it.

I respect and understand your decision against a liver transplant. I just don't like it. I think every life, whether damage to the body was intentional or not, is worth a great deal. Mine is, yours is and so is everyone around us. It's valuable and precious.

When I contemplated suicide, I was isolated. All of my family, that I had known over the years, was gone. I was completely alone and there was no one around to lean on. I realized, eventually, that I was isolating myself and making myself unhappy by surrounding me with nothing but negativity. I changed that and now have myself surrounded with people who care and love me for who I am....not who anyone thinks I should be or wants me to be.

If there is a chance at life, I think you should take it. But, those are my feelings. If you have accepted death and embrace it, I respect that. I just don't understand it. I came to understand the root cause of why I wanted to die. I'm just trying to understand YOUR root cause of wanting to die.

Notice, I don't give up very easily.

Toney, if you want a thread where everyone is caring and non-judgmental, you could start a fresh one. You might have to list topics that people can't bring up, like detoxing off the drugs, or Samaritans, or AA, or psychiatrists, and ask that people only make positive comments (now, would you be held to that, too?). I would be happy to stay off such a thread and let it be a haven for you.

And that is going to work without a (several) moderator(s) how? Are you really expecting Toney not only to ward off attacks, such as funkmr's (which was totally out of line because he doesn't have a clue what he is talking about), and emotionally strip himself bare at the same time?


You could have easily stayed off this thread (Toney started it, after all), but you didn't! Why not? Because Toney mentioned you in one of his posts?

Right, I wanted to link back to the actual thread where we had an argument, to clarify that I wasn't mindlessly negative. I wanted another chance to tell him we don't know how to help him. Our advice is obvious and predictable, and I can see how much of it annoys him.

I agree that some trolls might jump into a "safe haven" thread just to be annoying. I, at least, would stay out. My advice is obviously not helping Toney.

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I am almost afraid to post here, for perhaps I will do more harm than good. Then on the other hand, it feels wrong to read through all of this and then just go away. I am a newbie here, and do not pretend to know all the history behind this thread, and will not pretend to understand exactly where you are coming from Toney.

I do know that you story makes me sad and I wish I had some incredible insight that would make it better for you. My poor attempt at this follows: find someone or something to love, and hold on tight.

I will butt out now.

Toney
This may have been asked before and I only suggest this as a last resort when faced with such despair but have you considered it appears that many of the great teachers of our world have taken themselves back to nature i.e. for a very very long walk into the wilderness? If you don't make it, you will die in nature and all of your physical ness will be reused in the material cycle of life. If you do make it perhaps your spiritual energy may regain its strength to reconnect and move forward in this truly amazing gift = life.

That's actually a pretty decent piece of advice Carol, but with all the drugs presently in Toney's system I don't know if nature will be able to effectively recycle his physical-ness. Maybe he can sign a donor card and leave his remains to a drug dealer.