I just think it's incredibly ironic that folks came to this continent , started the U.S., in order to get away from being told how to believe by those in power and here we are, not really all that long after, having the religious beliefs of those in office/power forced down our throats, i.e. abortion rights, gay marriage, stem cell research, etc. I'm sooo tired of religious folks like Bush and Falwell telling folks how to live. You wanna be religious? Fine! Go and do that and leave me out of it. Let people live their lives. If it turns out we're wrong for being gay or having abortions, etc., we will suffer the consequences, I'm sure, but it's still none of anyone else's bidness but ours and God's.

I guess I feel a bit like ranting cuz my neighbor (who's a devoted christian apparently cuz he can't have a conversation without talking about it) came over to my house the other night and talked about ministry he does in prisons. He said something to the effect that these people can either go the right way, i.e. accept Jesus as their lord and savior, or (I'm paraphrasing) go to Hell in a handbasket cuz there's no other way for them to fix what's wrong in their lives than accept Jesus. That particular stance sounds an awful lot like how Scn says they're the only answer to man's problems. (P.S. When someone tells you they have the only answer, my advice is to run screaming.)

I'm probably gonna get pounded for saying this but I think that the men who were in charge of writing the Bible were also intolerant jerks who were against gays and wanted women to be far below men for all time, just to mention a few things they had wrong. And then folks came along after them who happened to feel the same way and saw their beliefs written in a book they were told was the word of God (how convenient) and found a reason to continue their intolerance and hide behind God while doing it. Not one part of me believes God wants people to be intolerant of gay people or for any of us to be lesser than anyone else.

Having said alla that though, I feel sorry for anyone who loses a family member and so my condolences go out to Falwell's family.

(Sorry for the rant...this touched a nerve.)

I'm sorry that a man is dead. I hope he was at peace when he died. I hope that he is with his God.

I don't agree with everything he thought or said, but he was a person and he had his own views and thoughts.

Being angry at him for the things he said and did isn't necessarily bigotry. He upset a lot of people.

But I think he may also have brought joy to many others.

And I hope he is experiencing joy right now.

AJ,

I know what you mean. But a few thoughts...

One is that the people who came to this country to follow their own freedom of worship were not known for extending that to others. At least the Puritans weren't. The Quakers, however, were and are a different story.

Just sayin'.

Another is that the biblical people were products of their times as were the ancient Romans.

They were people who lived in a culture around still other cultures where slavery was ok. Civil rights were rudimentary. Life was harsh. There wasn't as much of a middle class. Theocracies were the rule rather than the exception.

There are some very old fashioned and very harsh ideas in the Old Testament but there also are all sorts of proverbs about good friends and looking out for family and love. The Song of Solomon is pretty cool.

The Ten Commandments were probably quite revolutionary for the times and are still applicable today.

I would not like to live in 2000 bc Judea and you wouldn't,either, but there was wisdom there, nonetheless.

I really don't mean to be argumentative. Just pensive.

History wasn't my strongest subject in school and I'm sure I've forgotten many of the details (hell, I know I have LOL!) but what you say here sounds reasonable...still, isn't freedom of religion also freedom from it? Maybe I need to go and read the BoR's again and make sure I know what I've a right to or not. LOL!

I'm not saying I don't think people should be able to be religious and be open about it. I just get tired of having the religious beliefs of those in power used to affect those of us who don't believe that same way, to affect law-making. I just get tired of certain self-righteous religious types and I think Falwell was one of them. People like him don't want to live by the values/standards of others outside their religion any more than we want to live by his. The diff between someone like me and someone like him is that he wasn't able to simply live by his rules and leave the rest of us alone and allow us to do live as we see fit regardless of his beliefs. (And don't even get me started on G.W.!) Sure, I might want everyone to believe as I do but I'm not gonna out and start the Immoral Majority!


I just wish folks would live by the wisdom and leave the intolerant, destructive BS behind.


No problemo, Fluff.

Why not? If it is immoral enough, I could be persuaded to join.


In other news, Fred Phelps has announced that he and his merry band of whackos are going to picket Falwell's funeral.

Honestly, one cannot make up stuff like that.

Quotes from Jerry Falwell.

A truly evil man.


“Grown men should not be having sex with prostitutes unless they are married to them”

“Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions”

“AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals”

“The idea that religion and politics don't mix was invented by the Devil to keep Christians from running their own country”


“The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews”

“The whole (global warming) thing is created to destroy America's free enterprise system and our economic stability”

“[homosexuals are] brute beasts...part of a vile and satanic system [that] will be utterly annihilated, and there will be a celebration in heaven.”


Patty P

I'd like to see Fred Phelps picket the CoS! lol

If I were part of his family, I'd be ashamed and rather happy he's not
among us anymore. What a fanatic idiot.

The thing about the Bible is it's just as contradictory as Scientology doctrine. There's always one verse that contradicts the other. If "God" was perfect and his word is perfect, then why the need for the New Testament, shouldn't "God" have seen that coming, shouldn't he have told Abraham and Moses all of this in advance?

The ten commandments require the punishment of death, for breaking any of them. The Bible was written by men, just as Scientology doctrine was written by a man. The Christian translation of the Bible, from the Greek translation is also way off base. The Greeks messed up the translation in the first place, then the Christians messed it up even more, when they "translated" it from the Greek's translation. From what Historians know, they changed a lot and left out what they chose to leave out (what did not benefit them).

So by believing in the Bible, is no different than believeing in the Xenu story. The story of "God" and Jesus, is no more insane than believing an evil galactic overlord named Xenu infected your body with space cooties.

Here's a good webpage for bible contradictions.

http://www.quran.net/comp-std/cntrbibl.htm

Another:
http://globalwebpost.com/farooqm/writin ... contra.htm

In the name of Allah, the Mercy-giving, the Merciful?

Try this one:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Much better, Miss...I was going down the list at Google, but hadn't gotten to that one yet. lol

It's low-class behaviour, obscene even, to be engaging in this kind of trashing immediately on the day a man dies.

Aside from that, I'm frankly stunned (not really) to find that many people here have more of a problem with Evangelical Christianity and preachers than they do with L. Ron Hubbard. Amazing.

I'm sincerely beginning to think that Co$ and Religous Freedom Watch may have a point in this area. Apparently many critics here are simply anti-religious zealots and bigots.
The foaming at the mouth taking place here is certainly displaying it.

It takes one to know one, doesn't it? Because I point out valid and logical points, that makes me a bigot and a zealot? If Charlie Manson died and people celebrated, would you say the same thing? Jerry Falwell wasn't much better, in my opinion. He caused hatred and bigotry, most religious leaders do.

Another thing, as an Atheist, I treat all religions equally. Atheists are not hypocritical, like Christians. All religions have this "holier than thou" type attitude. All religions think they are the "chosen ones". What makes a Christian better than a Scientologist? And you are calling me a bigot? I don't think I am better than anyone, I believe all humans are to be treated equally. If someone is a bad person, such as Jerry Falwell, they should be treated as one. Most religions have caused more death, over any good it could possibly ever do.