Oh I get it. You're a violent anti-Judeo/Christian extremist.

Because you live in my area and are clearly a budding religous terrorist and apparently a thug, I'm taking your threats of violence toward me very seriously.

Thank you for being clear about it and giving me the heads up, I'll be sure to find out exactly who you are, report you to the appropriate Federal authorities in this area and take the necessary steps to protect myself.

Christians, Jews and Scientologists alike all need to be aware of and very wary of people like you who threaten violence on message boards. Apparently Myspace administrators and Scientologists already are? ...you've had pages shut down there. What for? Anti-religous hate speech? Threats of violence?

Never mind, I'll ask them myself.

The truth hurts, doesn't it? I was calling you a pussy, which is exactly what you are. You talk a bunch of shit on here, because in reality, you can't actually DO anything. You sound exacly like what you're protesting...a SCIENTOLOGIST. I guess you've shown your true colors.

**big groan**heavy sigh**

Ehhhh, fuck Scientology. I've done enough. I'm retiring from being a critic, I'll focus all my attention on Christianity now, they're just as crazy. Later people.

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.


I think this will be a good move for you. As you battle Christianity, you'll no doubt be forced to confront and resolve your childhood gripe of being raised in a religious household. It's best that you deal with that before you hurt yourself or others.

Let us know how it all works out, eh?





......................................................................

[Threat of violence removed and user banned. Admin]

We can all be different and still get along. Can't we?

*sigh*

*rolls eyes* It stopped being amusing about 5 pages ago.

Roan, you have a problem with anyone insulting Christianity, or comparing it to Scientology, or comparing the people involved in Christianity to Scientology.

What's so treasonous, sinful, or, dare I say, suppressive, about the idea that the people in charge of various Christian denominations can be sly, weaselly, and downright wicked?

Christians are no better or no worse than anyone else.

It only takes thirty minutes of reading to figure out that Joseph Smith was a conman.

It's a proven fact that Catholic priests have molested children, and that the Church tried to cover it up.

And Jerry Falwell was a racist, bigoted maniac who did his best to install a religious dictatorship in this country - one of the things that Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, and all of the Founding Fathers, Christian and not Christian, feared alike.

"There is no tyranny like that of God, and we founded this country on the principle that no tyranny would rule us again."

It is the SAME thing - the SAME EXACT THING - that Lafayette Ron Hubbard tried to do.

Hell, Jerry Falwell even held papermill degrees just like LRH did! He was no doctor; he spent no time studying, he just paid for the doctorates he recieved with money that he gained from asking good Christians to pay him in the name of God.

Or, if you want an even more accurate comparision, Falwell did the same exact thing that David Miscavige did do - swiped someone else's ideas to feed his own need for power and aggrandizement.

Here's some tasty tidbits.


Fact: His early career, in the 60's, was characterized by tirades against Martin Luther King, Jr, and FOR the policies of segregation. He hated the idea that blacks could be equal to whites, and his words showed that. His words: "There are as many alcoholics in this country as there are black men."

Fact: He advertised in 1994 a film that called Clinton a drug addict and accused him of using his power to have his enemies assassinated - and lied as he said he had nothing to do with the production of the video, despite the fact that he gave $200,000 to the makers.

Fact: In 1981, on television, he called the gay-oriented Metropolitan Community Churches "brute beasts" and "a vile and Satanic system" that will "one day be utterly annihilated and there will be a celebration in heaven." When the guy in charge of that church system sued him, Falwell said he'd pay money if the guy could produce a tape. The guy did, Falwell still refused to pay the money, and then had to pay even more when Falwell's appeal was laughed out of court.

Fact: In 1978 he said that "Reverend Sun Myung Moon is like the plague: he exploits boys and girls, and he should be exported." However, in 1997, his tune changed sharply when Moon gave him $3.5 MILLION to shore up Liberty University's woes, since the government refused to fund a private college based heavily on Christianity.

Fact: In 2000, Falwell formed the People of Faith 2000, a campaign designed to mobilize Christians in the 2000 election. Federal tax laws clearly state that it is illegal for a tax-exempt organization to conduct partisan voter registration - he was breaking the law, in other words. Although Falwell claimed his campaign is nonpartisan he admitted, "It is my experience that most people of faith in the country vote pro-family, pro-life, and that will mean George W. Bush."

Fact: In 1987, under the guise of helping a friend named Jim Bakker, he took control of a second evangelist network geared towards Presbyterians and did his damnedest to convert them to his brand of fundamentalism - and did so by lying to Jim as he promised to do nothing to touch their own brand of the faith.

Fact: He wrote, "I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them." In 1999, he LIED and said that he'd had NOTHING to do with writing the book that quote came from, even though the publisher confirmed that yes, Falwell did write that book.


He was a liar. He was a criminal. He was a conman. He matched Hubbard in so many ways it's almost disgusting. The only reason he got off so lightly is because the government feared people like you crying, "Persecution! He's being persecuted because of his religion!"

We can judge the man seperately from the religion, and to quote the Good Book, the one he so obviously had never touched more than a few times in his entire life,

"Thou art weighed in the balance, and found wanting."

I want to make this clear, Roan.

I do not despise Christianity. I don't even dislike it.

My copy of the Bible is criss-crossed, tabbed, and highlighted because there is wisdom in that book - even if I am not myself a member of any of the Abramaic faiths.

What I despise is the leadership which, instead of using their religion as a system to bring everyone to the same level of enlightenment, uses it to crush, channel, and force everyone into the same mould, no matter how ill it may fit some people.


One of the things that every Scientologist, Ex or not, has said is that there WERE wins, and that they DID succeed in improving themselves. We've seen that again and again, and many of the Freezoners use that as a strawman - "There were wins! The tech does work!"

Such trumpeting is fallacious in the extreme, and we can see it, because Scientology leaves behind a trail of blood and ruined lives like a snail leaves slime - no 'wins' could be worth what you have to go through to get them, and any wins later on just end up being illusions.

The truth is, spiritual fulfillment can come from Mormonism, Islam, Scientology, LSD use, whatever. The SYSTEM doesn't matter, and it's a mistake to think that it does.

What matters is the ACT of seeking the truth, of being willing to seek the truth, and accepting that truth once you find it. No two people's truth is exactly alike.

A wise man doesn't say, "This and this and this is the case, and everything else is a damned lie." A wise man, one who has actually discovered his own truth, will lead each seeker along the pathway until that seeker finds his own truth - and then smile and say, "Now, wasn't that fun?"


Unfortunately, such seekers are dangerous to those in religious power - a monopoly is the best thing to have! - so seeking is discouraged in almost every religion, major or minor.

You can't be fed truth like milk from a woman's breast.

You have to go out, hunt it down, and kill it for yourself, then eat the raw meat - no matter what the bitter consequences.


Edit: I'm changing my signature to that last one. It's too good to let it langour in the dustbin once this thread goes away.

Fanboy, once again, we are on the same page! Your assessment of “Reverend” Falwell was 100% spot on. Pointing out the evil and vile hypocrisy of a monster like Falwell is no different from pointing out the equally vile crimes of another monster named L. Ron Hubbard.

It is simply an unfortunate fact of life on this planet that religion has done far more harm than good and that true good and real time spiritual growth can be derived from many sources. Truth is a large subject: It cannot be funneled though a narrow crevice and marketed by slimy con men attempting to sell themselves as the sole purveyors of righteousness and salvation. Falwell and Hubbard had plenty of company and these types of comparisons and analysis will always be valid since the traps of cult-think are everywhere, not just in Scientology.

Roan, if you are still reading this thread, please allow me to share something about my own personal journey: I was born and raised a Jew, was baptized at 16 and spent about a year as a Christian before I was so appalled at the greed, racism and hypocrisy I saw from the majority of the Jews and Christians in my community that I completely turned my back on ALL religion for more than 10 years before I got into Scientology when I was 27.

Hubbard pushed the right buttons for me: Before I even entered my 20’s, I already had profound issues with religion, medicine, business and government. But the longer I remained in Scientology, the more doubts I had and more disgusted I became. I found Nichiren Buddhism in 1991 where I have remained ever since.

But Falwell no more represented the true teachings of Christ any more than Hubbard spewed anything more than his own psychosis. Comparing Falwell’s crimes against humanity with Hubbard’s is NOT an exercise in anti-Christian or anti-religious bigotry. Any person, organization or faith that cannot withstand honest scrutiny and criticism is ultimately doomed to decay and failure. None of us can grow without honest self-assessment.

Although this thread unfortunately occasionally descended into invective and name-calling, it does not undermine its legitimacy. The likes of Falwell and Hubbard are still with us and having a discussion about their insanity will hopefully keep others from being ensnared into future madness.

I asked to try to gain a perspective of why you're so sour or down on Christianity. I can appreciate your views on $cn, here's mine ----> http://www.xenu-directory.net/critics/padgett1.html

I was raised as a Presbyterian...not a Baptist I was in $cn for 9 years. So my perspectives would be different than yours. Mainly....

SCIENTOLOGY IS NOT A RELIGION It's an alternative mental health sect.
It's a cult for sure, big time. But not a "religious" cult.

<<<>>>

Kilia wrote:


I've actually worried about that...the day the WBC pickets the CoS, I'm putting away my fliers and signs. I refuse to be associated with the Phelpses.


And as for this atheism/Christianity battle...there is a time and place for everything. OCMB isn't an appropriate arena for this particular debate. I'm sure there are PLENTY of places on the internet where people can discuss the pros and cons of atheism and Christianity-take it there.

Exactly marlysfan, couldn't have said it better myself.

Rick (hboats)

Yeah, but can visulize what the CoS will do to Phelps and his cohorts?