Andreas,

this MB has become not only infused, but also infected by Amerikaans.

You are Norwegian; this website is hosted in the Netherlands. I am German. My abhorrence of the direction this MB is taking is purely European.

I have had two threatening PM's from you which I personally consider an insult. I consider them an insult because I post to the best of my integrity.

You accuse me of not meeting the "minimum" standards that you seek to impose on this forum. You are also perfectly aware of the inadequacies of very many who also post that fail to meet the minimum standard. They do not, as I, post in good faith.

I find it extreme cowardice on your part to appeal to my sense of communality - which has deeply hurt me - by implying that I am outwith the remit of this MB by posting as I do.

In my country (Germany) Scientology has been shown to be a criminal organisation. This does not however mean that I consider Scientologists to be criminals - you can ask Terril or Claire for their opinions, with regard to my interaction with them.

There are some who care about issues, be it on different grounds, I would include BG, Don_Carlo, Merlin/I-Loki, MissDorfl, (and those I have not mentioned - don't hate me).

Then there are those who would care out of pique (Tigger, sometimes Tory - although I would sometimes class her higher, Ladybird, and a few others).

Then there is the opportunism crowd.

I am breaking one of my precepts here, i.e. what is private should remain private, but when I consider your following private message to me:



Then I would at least have expected you to consult with your prior moderator Merlin, or the stand-in Don_Carlo before insulting me or my integrity the way you have.

What you negated in your critique of me was the extreme provocation - not to myself, but with regard to others of good faith on this MB who were denigrated by self-satisfied purveyors of filth.

Don_Carlo and I recently had a dispute. He made accusations and admitted wrongness, I admire him the more for his candour and admission, well not retractions - he wasn't entirely wrong, but let's just say he wasn't right either.

Don_Carlo however is someone I can talk to. You however seem to be intransigent in your guilty verdict of myself with no defence necessary with regard to myself.

That is your problem (and prejudice) not mine.

Of course you can point to the fact that it is your forum. You pay for it, and it's yours. If however a forum is not populated, then you are paying for nothing.

Before you reply Andreas, I thought, really thought, long about this reply - my outrage however exceeds my consideration with regard to respect - Merlin has it, because I know him, you just happen to own the site.

Nec,

Since you have lain this problem out for all to see, I just want to point out that it is a personal problem. I don't see any other Europeans complaining about what you are complaining about. Why should this site only be available to Europeans? As a Klingon I find your work particularly disparaging. Is this a homo sapiens only club? What's next? Only people that don't have chickens can post here? Where does this umbrage of yours come from?

Ejaculatory,

you are a yank, so you can espouse the European view exactly how?

You have nothing to point out or see. Americans are the problem. They are by their own antecedents and administration precluded from being a part of the solution.

I'm not complaining. I'm stating fact.

If you don't like it then tell me where I am wrong.

So you don't like Yanks.
Big deal, neither does Al Qaeda. We're here. We're Clear. Deal with it.

Oops - sorry. I thought I came onto a message board meant to undress Scientology. This must be the 'undress Americans' message board.
Nec - you say that Germany has found Scientology to be a criminal organization (thank you - your nation that is - for that), but you don't consider Scientologists to be criminal. Got it. Later you say "Americans are the problem" So are we - so to speak - 'criminal' because of a government administration (organization) that has - how shall I say it - 'issues'? There is a lot about this current administration that i DO NOT like and there a quite a few others that feel similarly. There is a lot of work to be done, all over the place (planet-wide). I'm hoping 'handling' Scientology is only a warm-up. But please feel free, if you care, to tell me how I am the problem. I am not even being facetious. I would actually like to hear your viewpoint. Obviously, if the webmaster fells that any of this, including my post, has no business on his website, I have no problem with my post being deleted.

nec_v20,

Referring to "very many [others]" have no value here when talking about what you do, you are alone responsible for what you do.

And what I PM'ed you about was what you did. I did not post it publicly. I tried to get a dialogue about what I found to be a concern. This message board is here for a specific purpose and you refuse to accept it. I can't argue with that expect repeatedly remind you about it. I claim I have a say in the matter. I tried to do so in private, but you have refused to reply to me and instead become insulted.

If you read the FAQ you know all this. You know why ARS is ARS and for what purpose OCMB was created. I’ve posted about this here repeatedly over the years. If you consider requests asking you to respect the rules of this message board (from the person who defined the rules and gave you access to the message board) an insult then there is little sensible I can reply to that...

You quote in public from my private message to you without even having the respect and courtesy to quote what specific text of yours that made me write to you. Not to forget the little issue about maybe asking me before making it public… (I would have said you could, by the way). You just ignored replying to my personal message, didn’t you? Going public without asking permission is in many situations the only right thing to do, but it’s not like you're revealing state secrets to save the world. To me it just confirms lack of respect.

Where I in my private message to you write "stuff like this" you know I did refer to a violent post of yours, because I quoted it in the same private message. You did not quote that when you went public quoting me. That's neither fair nor honest.

But let all that be, it doesn't bother me as much as the rest of what you write.

You are of the opinion there is nothing wrong with the way you post. I think it is, here on OCMB. And when I see it I tell you - like it or not. As you should know I happen to have my reasons for creating OCMB. It drained and it drains my time and resources (and I told you so in my PM). Resources I am willing to spend - which includes also telling you when you IMO step over the line - as long as I feel the board adds more value than I could create by reassigning my efforts.

There are many administrative issues to debate and handle here on OCMB (by reading the FAQ you will also learn where to do so). I believe we can agree it will never be "perfect" in my or your version of the term. Some issues I manage to handle and many others I don't. I've posted several times that this is a community and if the board is to get to where it was created to go then I am dependant on more than me dragging it in that direction. If you disagree with the direction then you should seriously question if you have come to the right place. Sorry, I want you here but not for the wrong reasons. I am not going to make your idea of a message board for you. If nobody needs a board to go where I'm going with OCMB them that is fine, this board will just die and be forgotten. Simple as that. As of now there are still users who seem to find value in it (or still believe in its potential). I try only my best (though by using very limited force) to steer it there.

Some incidents I choose to only watch over because I (based on my knowledge of the posters involved and my experience) expect them to wither quickly. I bud in when I believe budding in might have a positive effect. Most incidents I probably don’t even see because nobody tells me about them. I’ve also PM’ed with many, like I tried with you. Some incidents I see too late and budding in will just reignite the problem/disturbance, so I don't. Some I misinterpret, some make me laugh when I should have reacted, sometimes I give too much slack and sometimes I give too little. In most cases people bring that to my attention in a wise way, I do try to learn, and we solve misunderstandings or agree to disagree. You refused that and went instead making this fuzz.

You expect me to consult with your list of other posters before talking to you about what you do (?!?) and call it my "problem and prejudice" because I didn't…... I'll let that statement sink in before replying to it.

You close with a reference to the number of posters to OCMB with a poorly hidden insinuation that writing what I did to you might make all posters disappear from OCMB. Consider this then: I do not measure the success of OCMB on the number of posters and lurkers. I measure it in people who find value in it. If nobody find value in it them I'll close it down with a big smile, to me that would be a progress. There is no prestige in this, I honestly don't need this in my life. I created this extra work and hassle for myself because I thought I saw the need for a friendly and safe environment to meet and talk. If there is no more need for that, or it turns out to be impossible to administrate such a fantasy with my resources here on OC, then I'll just move on. Rest assure there will pop up other forums elsewhere, life goes on dear friend. There is no more need for me than you in this fight. And I can maybe use the time to update the web site instead, or reply to more of my e-mails.

I do want you to stay, you are really welcome and you have a lot to offer. However, you are not above criticism or my reaction as the administrator. I find it a bit silly that you try to sit on your high horse and say you are threatened and insulted because I dare to criticise you. I'm sorry my friend, I don't buy it. I did somehow expect something very different from you. Because you are influential, because you do make a difference, because you do contribute a lot, because you represent a form of authority and respectability here; you will be treated accordingly. You get both slack and expectation. You might not agree, the universe might very well look totally different from where you stand, but this is not an anarchy where all we do is just profess that so it is. Again I refer to the FAQ and repeat to you that there is something very fundamental in it that you have not understood. I fully admit and take responsibility that I sometimes/somewhere might have been unclear in word and action, but my goal and intentions should still be reasonable easy to understand. Even if I am only human in my actions. I have asked people to assist me in reaching the goals for OCMB, since it is not something that can be created through moderation alone. As a friend and guest I ask and expect the same from you.

I have an opinion of what OCMB should be. Sometimes I am of the opinion that you are working against that. I tell you so when I am of the opinion I should tell you. I will also try to shut up when I am of the opinion I should. (1)Learn to live with it, (2) try to change yourself, or (3) debate it with me if you are convinced I am wrong. What you are doing now is IMHO neither.

Take care.

Are you saying that just by nature the European is somehow superior to the American?



I thought we were the arrogant ones.....



Like a scientologist



and ambassador_yak is a klingon, not a yank. As I am.

No post has ever been deleted from OCMB so there is no reason to suggest or expect this.

Footnote: Some parts of posts from one specific postes was once removed from OCMB due to a request from the police (the cult had reported it). The passages removed were very threatening and promoted violent acts against CoS/Scientologists. A note replaced the removed text to explain what was done and why. It was also reported and discussed publicly here.

I am American and I realize that Americans
can be arrogant.

I apoligize to you Nec, for the American-born disease
of Scientology spreading to other countries.

I also apoligize for offending you by
my being an American.

I would appreciate to know what, if anybody cared to share it with me here or in private. Somehow I have been given the opposite impression and I would like to know if that is very wrong.

Andreas,

I believe he was referring to the Bush administration. You run an awesome board.

Ok, then I misunderstood.

Well, Andreas, I suppose we could forgive you this one time...

I appreciate this board very much however I have always felt that it is separate from my political views, so I have never involved them. Plus I have no idea why this person felt they should take this argument to the message board, the answer so far eludes me, I don't mean to be insulting to nec, but I cannot understand why this all of the sudden became a public issue.

What concerns me is that UK had banned South Park, otherwise, I don't think Europe harbors any intent towards enslaving others and blowing themselves/others, back to the dark ages, in the name of religion.

So if this be the case, I find it disturbing to envision a world without Europe, just as I find disturbing the thought of a world without America.