When I first came here to take part in OCMB, I thought it was meant to discuss the concult and its true harms. Today it seems many of us discuss eachother. Was that why this board was created?
Please, argue about statements and opinions, not the persons that wrote them. Doing so does not help the case against $cientology. And certainly does not do any good to this board. Or its readers.
Most of us know how the concult is on critics, so there is no reason to do the same to eachother.

Excellent food for thought Navy.


.

You know what I am going to say? It roughly goes along the lines of if you think discussing Scientology is so important, whyever DID you create another thread discussing the people. Oh yes, it's so very well to be aloof and peaceable when you're up in a friggin mountaintop monasteryinstead of being called a piece of shit or a godamned shrew or having insults hurled at your family members who aren't even involved in the boards. Why don't you come back down to the level of us mere mortals and help out in shovelling execrement?



And here comes the problem of your argument: The argument about the "persons that wrote them" is not actually started by the parties you think has started it. It also shows that you haven't actually been paying attention to people's words - what has been happening so far, is people getting angry at pigheaded bigots who whinge and whine whenever somebody disagrees with said statements and opinions.

So, this is a board about opinions & debate, it also means a person should be able to accept valid points against their argument as well as for their argument. Guess who hasn't been doing it and is deep in the trementina ponds now.



I will tell you what this sounds like: It sounds just like Scientology prancing about "the greater good" and making Scientology your one major goal in life. I do not think making up fiction to make Scientology sound like the penultimate evil is a valid opinion, and I think people ought to call the poster out on it. Obviously, it is a person's opinion, and it is always going to be associated with that person. That's the whole point.



You say it as though this was the first and only time something like this has happened. Furthermore, the first person to jump in here and praise this point is a hypocrite who decided to run away with his own ideas of what other peoples' opinions were, and couldn't take criticism to hang up a cordless phone without putting it in its cradle.

Now, let's see how long it takes before you start howling about how *dare* I disagree with you in such a vehement manner, and call it flaming, taking it off the topic - any label you wish to fling upon, considering you can't possibly insult and DA me any more than certain other people on the boards have.

"Show me _any_ person who is critical of us and I'll show you crimes and
intended crimes that would stand a magistrate's hair on end."
-- L. Ron Hubbard, HCOB 4th Apr 1965

"Show me _any_ person who is critical of us and I'll show you crimes and
intended crimes that would stand a magistrate's hair on end."*
-- L. Ron Hubbard, HCOB 4th Apr 1965


*Even if I have manufacture the evidence myself.--LRH

The only thing I want to say: "Thanks for reading, thinking it over and responding to it."

Navy,

Reasonable people can differ. Contrary to what some might think, critics don't need to march in ideological lock step. And there most definitely is no "source" in the critic community (i.e. one all knowing person from whom all ideas flow). The problem arises when honest disagreements degenerate into personal nastiness and name calling (as we've recently witnessed).

OCMB Opinions & Debate is a marketplace of ideas, not an indoctrination center.

Navy: LOL! You're a smart man!

Prufrock: I agree. I would also add that this board is kind of like a house of mirrors and objects in the mirrors may not always be as they appear. That's a price OCMB has to pay for telling the true harms of $cientology.

Great line Navy!

Perfect response!

Navy: you're not only smart in your response, you're right in your statement.

This newsgroup has become quite aggressive. I have been around for a couple of years and somehow, most of the "old posters" have gone.

Still around are the pro-Minton/contra Greenways and the other way around.
They have always been here after the LMT went down the drain, and they always had their quarrels.
I just don't understand, why people are not able to accept each other posts, agree with it or not. You don't have to get defensive and can always discuss things in a normal human way without name-calling and getting personal.

We should all be here to display the criminal cult of Scientology.
Nobody will leave this cult when we're all yelling and screaming.

And, by the way, this is exactly the behaviour that OSA loooooooves to see.

I agree with you, Navy, but the problem is some people simply enjoy the conflict. Some people post almost exclusively to threads where dog-piling and mud-slinging is going on. I don't understand the vitriol, but I know for certain it won't stop.

There have been times when Andreas has come on and posted that he would like it to stop, and THE VERY NEXT POST will be more name calling etc.

*ducks to avoid mud*

I think some people just need to take a vacation once in awhile. Seems like some of them need to get their emotional crap worked out.

For the record, this isn't a "newsgroup".

OC is a message board. It's administrated by an individual at a single specific location. All admin duties fall to this one person from installing software to drive the board to user complaints and issues. It is accessable to anyone with web access and a desire to register which may need to be approved by the admin of the board in some cases. Serious violations may result in your removal from the board, but not suspension from your ISP.

alt.religion.scientology is a newsgroup. It exists on Usenet. Usenet is hosted worldwide on various servers and is available only if your ISP hosts it or you subscribe to a Usenet server service. It is not overseen by any single person or, as some think, some kind of secret Usenet Cabal. Any complaints go directly to your ISP's abuse department, whcih can result in one getting "spanked" from a Usenet group if the transgression is serious enough to have your ISP account suspended under the terms of the ISP's ToS (Terms of Service).

It's a HUGE difference, and the two terms are NOT interchangable.

It's one of those little peeves of mine, like people who interchange "breathe" and "breath".

Tamaritha,

It's definitely not cool to talk about others here like the way you have described above.

This is a message board, and tensions get high when talking about a subject as volatile as Scientology.

That said, it is not cool to personally attack a poster and say nasty things just because one does not agree with them.

I am sorry if you were called a shrew. I know I have called you out before and I hope I did not do so in a way that would indicate that I thought you were a shrew or whatever it was you were called.

Navy did a good thing starting this thread. The purpose of this message board is to Undress Scientology. Andreas has stated before that discussion should take place as if you were in his living room talking to the other person. I am sure that in Andreas' living room, people would not be called assholes, shrews, asshats, and sexual attacks about two women posters using a strap on with each other would not be tolerated.

Well, I feel like I'm beating a dead horse. LRH lied said on another thread that the distraction and fighting can chase away good posters, and just a few days ago Lucy Skywalker said she was done with the board, and she is an incredible person. That is just truly sad.

I have said this many times, everyone. If this infighting continues and escalates, we are doing OSA's job for them. Hell, they don't need to come here, we are proving them right in their view of what SPs should be. Instead of rational discussion of SCIENTOLOGY, I see speculation on "he/she is OSA!" or "Minton Minton Minton Minton Minton" I mean Jesus Christ! Tonight as I type this, kids are home alone because their parents are too busy saving the world to be at home nuturing them. Teenagers are spending years they should be learning and growing as people marching to the totalitarian beat of the Sea Org drum. Somewhere someone is going to mortgage their house again to chase the carrot called OT. Somewhere someone is going to try to fight their cancer with auditing. SO...What are we going to do about it?

Continue hurling rocks at each other like we are on the playground?

Let's get real.

Serenity Now

Then when do you plan to actually act on the response get down from that mountaintop monastery, and admit that you've been wrong about the actual premises under which you've started this thread? Very facetious of you, to only respond to that one and ignore the other points. Because that single point, out of the entire post, is the only one that proves your apparent fiction... but of course, you totally approve of people pasting fiction, and rejection any criticism of it.

The reason people are angry at others is not because of name-calling or whatever petty grievance you like to whinge about instead of doing anything on, the reason people are angry is because there is so much pure fiction heralded as fact, and people are letting that happen!

What happens whenever J.Swift or Arnie or some other person hailed as a "critic" posts pure fiction? Not only is that fiction hailed over with salutations, along comes somebody to tell off anyone who say that the emperor has no clothes! Oh yes, because they're critics, they're allowed to say whatever and get away with it! Anything negative about Scientology is good, even if it's pure fiction!

If anything, it's the brand of "critics" people apparently admire so much that starts the whole mess. So, where were you lot when Ltricha called Kusinagi's Ghost a piece of shit when she shot holes in his argument? Where were you lot when Frank Amato Snr was saying all sorts of disgusting things to Crimson?
Oh I know where you lot were -- all feeling just a tad too uncomfortable to be saying anything against it, because they were all respected posters, (and now that the events are over, blinking innocently and going where? where? oh sorry I missed it)...and thanks to your silence, J.Swift thought it an absolute unlimited licence to smear anyone who dares correct him on his fiction.

And here are you lot, perpetrating the idea that people here are angry for no reason at all. Of course, you're just glaaaaad I responded, because apparently I should've been all nice, sunshine and fairy bottoms, and it just is a plain example of the apparent 'nastiness'. but you have no intention whatsoever of considering the idea that people might actually be angry for a reason.