Swift, I agree wholeheartedly that we should honor and be true to the admirable intent and standard which Andreas has set. However, he doesn't have the time or energy to watch this board all that closely, and as a result, the moderation is... to be generous... inconsistent.

The fact that Os/Smitty was able to rag on Anons for weeks and weeks on end, the consistent thread-jacking & nitpicking of SM, and the tame responses that are required here even in the face of really destructive behavior... it all combines to give me the impression that this board often degenerates, for lengthy periods, into a graveyard of ideas, a museum for gray-haired Sci critics, and a place that trolls play rather freely. It gets boring. OCMB is far, far more interesting since Anon came along, if only because what they do ends up posted here.

I'm not sure I'm expressing myself well here, or making sufficiently concrete points. There's a kernel of idea in here, but I'm having a hard time getting it out there!

I'll just say that some justifiable outrage, the occasional "STFU fag" and the action-oriented nature of Anons are all very healthy influences, in my opinion. When something smacks of "asshattery," Anons "kill it with fire." That's not a bad thing.

Anon probably would have been better off had it stayed distinct from OG, and I mean VEEEERRY distinct, because what attracted many to their movement was the rakish, vigilante, git'r'done nature of it. It IS refreshing. Out of respect, the anon culture tried to moderate itself to permit inclusion of far more conservative elements, both from the general public, and yes, from OCMB, ARS, exscn.net, and so on, but if those who wished to join in try to control that culture too much, or get too close alongside it -- we end up with this mess. The melding didn't happen because they all came here -- please note, there are quite a few OCMB'ers in the "moralfag" contingent over at EO.

Sometimes the air gets pretty stale around here, I suppose I'm trying to say. I say that with respect, not a critical spirit.

Your posts, for example. While they are entertaining at times, and are obviously composed with great attention to aesthetics and poetic language, which I appreciate, they don't always advance the cause. At bottom, sometimes it's beautiful/romantic preaching to the choir and rehashing/rephrasing of known information, without much in the way of results.

I do not in any way dismiss the value of what you're doing. Truly. Greatest respect. Tip of the hat. All that. But the difficulty of intelligent, concerned people in being able to get approved/post to this board, combined with the looooong tenure of people who talk much, and visibly do little... well, it makes this board a little stagnant in the perception of many. If I had to choose between being at EO, and being here... I'd have to choose EO.

I deeply regret if my assessment offends people, hurts feelings, or seems uncharitable. It's my honest opinion, and I offer it in hopes that it will:

1) Suggest the possibility of livening things up around here in a style that's more comfortable for this particular group of people, which may require looser standards, yet more moderation.

and 2) Stress the importance of OCMB'ers not going to EO for more activity without realizing what they're in for, and then coming back here to crab about it. EO at large, and the TD particularly, did not universally welcome that blending if it meant being chided at every turn. There's no room for people on high horses in Enturb. They're ground troops, infantry.

Alrighty then. I'll duck and cover, waiting for the fallout. If you'd rather I just left and stayed gone, I'll do it, because the spirit of "nationalism" and "chauvinism" (look it up -- not necessarily what you think) around here has grown alongside that same spirit over at EO.

ok...I go to EO more than I come here. Why?
Because I like to see the young ones in action.

Like I said before, watching various Anon getting various things done all at the same time really gets my happy juices flowing. I enjoy it immensely.

Also, I do go into the TD from time to time and post "anonymously" with the kidding and raucous behavior going on there. So far no one has 'raeped' me, so I must be doing ok.

Yes, I'm an "oldfag"....but I'm not that old!

Oh, thank you, Kilia, for being the next post, and sharing my sense that TD can be perfectly fine and perfectly fun if you have a thick skin and enjoy their humor.

I'm just tiring of hearing even others than Gumby saying, "Yes, TD must go." As if theirs were the determining voices. It's a blanket condemnation of something many OCMB members don't seem to even understand. And yet they insist that the path must be cleared for them to come in and inspect their kingdom, and rout out anything which meets with their personal displeasure.

(I use that lofty language because yes, I find that position presumptuous, ignorant, and arrogant.)

Your "impression" is so far beyond wrong, it isnt funny




Oh, where does/did Little Bear Victor, blownforgood, Dr Shannon, Chuck Beatty et al post again?

OCMB, ESMB and ARS have always been the breaking grounds of new insider dirt on the cult.

Enturb has its place and purpose that is unparalleled, because it was spawned after the moralfag Anon's listened to Mark Bunker, and saw the ultimate win/victory (that would include many lulz) could be achieved by morphing the battle plans/tactics into a win-win situation.

There has always been a problem with people wanting to change OCMB in some way shape or form.

What has unfolded has been nothing more than a battle of pride and ego on every side. It's not just a black or white issue


And lets face it, some people want to have people pick a side in this latest fraccas, that isnt really new to criticdom of scientology.
Is a new cabal being born?

This isnt ESMB or ARS or even Enturb, it is an entity that is as individual as ESMB, ARS or Enturb.
Why is it that people feel some need to almagamate the entirety of criticdom into a singular entity?

What really hurts the cult is, it cannot fight something that doesnt have a central base of point to attack.

Sure, the Nony's have done/achieved moar in the last 6 months, that has probably been achived in a decade, with the cult being absolutely flailed by media and leaks coming out. But just remember what awoken Anonymous initially, it was the moralfag OG (you guys deserve a fuckin medal for THAT)leaking the Cruise videos to Gawker and the WEB.

None of this/fight against the cult, is or ever was suppose to be about OG, moralfags, Anonymous etc etc etc, it was suppose to be about turning back the clock on hubbard's soulrape. During the 50's, 60's and 70's, that cult couldnt really catch a break, and history is repeating itself, but it's looking like it will change for the better in relation to the cult growing.

None of us have to be friends. If all have the same objective, isnt that enough to move forward to victiory?


That doesnt mean it's okay to try have one entity swallow up another entity, bacause some people dont like the other entity due to headswelling of importance and relevence to the fight against the cult.

Look, whislt ever the is a decentralization of criticdom, the cult just cant get an attack position it needs to make ground on its enemies.

Problem NOW isIMHO, a small number are wanting to start to dictate everything from there own perspective of what to do and how to do it.
It's one thing to put forth an ideology for the masses to digest, and either consume and move on such food for thought or just spit out again, but it's an entirely different thing for a tiny number to start trying to rally support because their ego's are so inflated, they cannot see how dumb they look overall.

The petty jealousies obviously exist within factions of the Nony's, as well as criticdom, and that is human nature. But it isnt human nature to want to flail one group, just so as to gain control overall.
THAT IS SCIENNTOLOGY APPLIED!

Whilst ever the cult managed to hold an umbrella over its critics and enemies, it could always counter/defeat its opponents. Those days are now GONE. So why try bring back a central point of attack by some sort of amagalmation?

If it aint broken, dont try fix it.

/end rant

EDIT:


That is Gumby's perspective, and he will be the first to say he speaks for himself




The very same thing can be said of those that are in TD and Enturb, trying to garner support from others, in the flailing of the entirety of Xenu.net and those they call "OG"



Again, the same applies here.



TD is NOT for the faint hearted and people post there at their own peril. If people didnt realize that from day 1, then they should lurk moar.

I agree with pretty much everything you said, Alert. It cuts both ways, and respect for the character of individual boards is important.

Both ways.

Yes, there's been great stuff archived here. And I looove BFG, LBV, and so on. I did not intend to paint with a broad brush. I just sometimes see little result, little publicity, little action taken, and little damage done with what seem to be potent weapons (informational weapons) gathered here.

I gather from your tone that I've offended. I respect your POV and hope you respect mine.

At the monthly S.F. protests, besides my wife and me, there are usually just 3 or 4 others that are over 40 years old. Out of 50-100 protesters. Not much OCMB or OG representation out there that I can see. I think Anonymous is awesome. It's hard for me to believe that anyone here can think that we can win the war with the cult without them. I think this whole debacle has made us (as OCMBers) look like a bunch of windbags. And Gumby is just plain embarrassing. (I was tempted to make the previous sentence in 24pt. red type but just couldn't do it. lol) It looks to me like elements from this camp started the mess, continued it and won't end it.

WhiteRose, I've been reading and not posting much but since this thread doesn't want to die I thought I'd put my 2 cents in about your posts. I've agreed with all of 'em.

Just had the funniest thing happen on enturb:



One person's "excess drama" is another person's "had to be said" "Ghandi Tech" (referring to PM's I had received from others on enturb).

You've just got to laugh.

Hey, youve not offended me at all, please dont try to asses my tone in my posts. It is one of my shortcomings as an Internet user. I come across all whiney and sooky/emotive, when Im generally not.

I know what damage the Nony's are doing, and its got the cult crapping their pants, there is NO doubt.

Just look at how they(the cult) have been trying to manipulate the Internet with buying Google ads et el.

Like I said, we don't all have to be bestest buddies, but there does need to be some form of cohesion with the fight. And I honestly believe the only cohesion need be that of not wanting to fight each other. That is what the cult thrives on.

Sure, the archives are full of juicy stuff, but it doesnt take going back years to find out juicy stuff that has made mainstream media.

I think the geatest thing the Nony's have done is, is to empower many more media types with the guts to report on the cult and its activities on an ongoing basis.
It knida makes me think, that there is something mammoth on the horizon that will be a revisit of the Time expose' years ago.
Unfortunately, people can sometimes have a tendency to want to have some sort of glory in all this with the "look at me, I am X and I did Y".

It isnt important as to who we are individually and what we do individually, or even as some sort of collective per se. It's much more important what happens along the way that exposes the cult of scientology that leads to it being fully exposed on the global scale.

Cabals and cadres are nothing new in criticdom, it's apparently the nature of the best. But I truly believe a turning point is/has been reached with the total exposition of the cult of scientology, and enabling cabal A v's cabal B v's cabal C+A is everything the cult wants.
The cult want anything other than its exposure to light, anything

I cant keep posting in this thread, as I just dont see the value for the purpose of everyone in general.
I know the words "doing OSA's work for them" pisses some people off, but it is the actuality in what has unfloded in all this.

Another thing I loved about the Nony's mantra was, "stay on target".

Y'all can be the defining factor in all this, if you really want to.

We are not friends
We are not enemies
I am Anonymous?

EDIT



I was actually waiting for you to delete this before I posted.

Exactly plups, exactly.

Plenty of what has been said on both sides needs to be taken into consideration - but one thing that is becoming painfully clear is that there are certain Anons who no long want to be 'anonymous' and are now very happy to have their handles get recognised and respected. There is also this blatant egotistical - 'look what we did in six months that no-one else could do ever' mentality which just sucks...who's we? That's right - it's EVERYBODY involved. Not the originals who 'heard the call', not the 'OG', not '/b/', not anybody in particular other than EVERYBODY.

Not to mention that there have been MAJOR events that have occured over the past decade or so that have had just as much, and probably a lot more, impact. Just think of South Park for one recent one (created by two individuals)...that reached tens of millions of people and is probably why most 'Anons' knew anything about Scientology at all. What about Tom Cruise's craziness? Going back...Time magazine. There are plenty of other examples as well...so please realise that this is a timeline, a continuum, that has been building up - it HASN'T just appeared in the last 6 months.

So get your head's out of your backsides and stop looking down at people (and no it's not hypocritical to look down on people who look down on people - that's a meta issue ).

Last thread on this topic (or the countless others like it that shall spawn no doubt) for me...moving on to better and greener pastures.

Going to say this one last time:

ANONYMOUS IS NOT A GROUP

OLD GUARD IS NOT A GROUP

Your personal ego can only help to derail any affect this whole thing may have had on Scientology. So. Get over it.

The Work is All.

True. The sum is much greater than the parts. Exes and other critics were not being as effective by themselves. Anonymous was not being very effective DDoSing. Anonymous still has numbers and energy to contribute, and exes still have FBI reports to file, and reserves of information which have been left untapped. It could continue as a very symbiotic relationship for a long time, especially if we can keep feeding Anonymous with new resources. I urge everyone here to do that, to the extent that they're capable. Less discussion, more action.

Plups, can't say I'm surprised you've been silenced, the only ppl allowed to say anything offensive about the 'domers is the 'domers and their little clique themselves on enturb now it seems AND THAT IS THE WHOLE GENTLY CARESS POINT.

I read your post, it was very concise, very logical, very calm. And made some very salient points. But I can't say I'm *at all* surprised you got moderated into silence. You're not the only one it's happened to in the past week or so.

It's no longer "enturbulation.org, a place for activism against the cos" it's "what we domers think enturbulation and anonymous is". Apparently it's not really about the church and it's evils, it's about free speech and it always was.

Better take the whole "church of scientology" crap off the front page guys, it's making you look single issue.

But never fear folks, I'm making a list for you so you don't say the wrong thing and get silenced over there:

1. Tory, Tommy . . . bad, very bad people. Screw Tory's history of fighting the cult, screw the fact that Tommy's Bad Assness made most of the domers hard and homo for him prior to mpb getting a taste of his own medicine . . . THEY ARE BAD BAD PEOPLE KIDDIES. Stay away from them. Do not accept candy from them. Tommy in particular is likely to nut you if you do.

2. Xenu.net . . . yes, I see the plan to get that taken off drawball is well under way. gg guys, good to see things are moving along right on schedule. I mean, hundreds of anon only spent hours chalking it up there day after day but suddenly we've discovered that we were wrong. We don't want it there anymore. I suggest fchan is a good replacement, short, catchy, should fit in there well.

3. Old guard: ok so long as they are not faggots and agree with us. See 1. If they do not follow point 1 they are faggots and should be shouted into silence.

4. Now, this might be a bit early to mention, but what the hell: protesting is for faggots. We're gonna get >9000 new subs to enturb but they don't want to hear about all this faggoty protesting shit. Actually skip that. It's still ok to talk about it right now. After august 16th expect a flood of omgz protesting is for faggotz. That will be your sign that it's ok to start posting the same. We're gonna do lots of 1337 shit like ddos'ing the cos website which has absolutely no effect in the real world but it sound kewl as gently caress and we can brag about it to our mates online.

I hope this clarifies the matter for some who have been left confused in the wake of our recent shitstorm.

thnxploxbai.

(btw anyone who does not recognise sarcasm and parody in the above should go and diaf).

Great post

Thanks for making it simple for me.

Whole thing is cringeworthy... But scilons could learn to have a similar debate about their mental dwarf!


.

Yeah, I saw it, Plups.....your thread got domed too.

Hi JaneDoe, I had seen you post previously about being silenced and I admit, I took what you said with a pinch of salt. But I have to reassess after this.

I'm genuinely surprised at this. I'll probably be sanctioned again by the self-appointed guardians of free speech (not!) for this, but frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn. I am genuinely surprised that a reasoned, rational post which answered the much heard request for evidence of the alleged threats and provided links (ie FACTS) to back it up could be sanctioned for flogging a dead horse and adding "excess drama". What has caused me a few chuckles in the last couple of hours is remembering some of the inflammatory posts made in general discussion - eg. the defamatory crap posted about Tory, the pics of dead horses, etc - which DIDN'T result in any bans. The incongruity is so stark, it's funny.

All of which tells me that it's not really about free speech at all. Because somebody has decided that that particular conversation is OVER.