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Toney

Post by Toney » Mon Oct 24, 2005 11:03 pm

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Ltricha1
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Post by Ltricha1 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:17 am

jonny wrote:Ltricha, the reason those courses were such eye openers, is because I had never heard that stuff before, as incredible as that might seem
I don't disagree that they can be eye opening. They are but when you think about it are they really ground breaking?

Next step in your $cientology 'Training' is usually the TRs to help you 'communicate better'. Supposedly these drills teach you to 'recieve' and 'give' comunication. What they really do is begin to take you back to your childhood, stripping away your resistance, and have been claimed to by hypnotism.

The next step? Study tech... or word clearing

Word clearing. Another 'supposed method of learning'. Except what Word clearing does is force you to accept what ever is written that you are reading. A child could be reading a text book that states the world is flat, and by the 'rules' of word clearing that child would have to accept that fact that the world is flat inorder to finish the course.
[url=http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=220008#220008]$cientology's real product[/url]
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Ltricha1
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Post by Ltricha1 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:28 am

Here is something else for you to chew on Jonny,

ARC
Affinity, Reality, Communication.

In $cientology in order to remain in Affinity you have to accept the Reality of the group, otherwise you are forced out of Communication. You see they can't allow entheta can they, to upset their 'agreed' upon reality.

The problem is their 'agreed' upon reality has nothing to do with the real worlds reality.

What really sickens me about the cult is this.
Remember the last event you went to? That marvelous production, where the executives are dressed with personally tailored tuxedos? Arrive in Limos? How much 'money' do those productions cost, forgetting that most of the labour for those productions was provided by the $cientology slave labour force better known as the RPF. Those props cost money to build (if only for materials) and for maintenance.

How much money did your org pull in? Ask yourself this, where does all that money go. If you are really confused on this issue reread the above paragraph.
While the lowly $cientologist is struggling to feed themselves and their families, the execs are blowing $200,000 a day in Vegas or sending their wives on $250,000 shopping sprees in Europe.
While Sea Org members are eating rice and beans David Miscaivage and his cronies are eating steak and drinking the best wines.
While $cientologists, both staff and Sea Org are slaving away at 80 hours a week, David Miscaivage and his cronies are taking week long vacations at least 4 times a year.

Are there rich public $cientologist. Of course, who do you think is paying for all that luxury?
[url=http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=220008#220008]$cientology's real product[/url]
[url=http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=16563]Read[/url]
Tech is the Carrot,
Admin is the Cart,
Ethics is the whip,
Guess who the Horses are.

Ball of Fluff
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Post by Ball of Fluff » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:13 am

Hi, Toney!

I'm sending a copy of your post to Admin with a formal complaint.

Have a nice day! 8) 8) 8) 8)

Toney

Post by Toney » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:28 am

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Ball of Fluff
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Post by Ball of Fluff » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:29 am

Lt,

I knew several people in my area who had money from family, etc. Some were quite wealthy.

And CofS came to them every time they needed something. I mean, they called EVERYBODY up for money, as I'm sure you know. But the millionaires were pushed to give the most since they had the most.

If you look at the Seattle Building Fund website (I have the URL somewhere. If you can't find it, let me know) you will see some names of people who donated large amounts so that they could buy that building.

A couple of these families, I know personally. They've given many hundreds of thousands to CofS over and above the cost of their courses and auditing.

Which bears out what you are saying.

I know families who also donated the 30k to the SuperPower building project, as well. The exchange? Some lounge that might get built with VIP seating for them.

The thing is, CofS always always has its hand out and gives very little by Scn'ological standards (training and auditing) in return. By non Scn or critical standards, many would say gives nothing in return.

There are a lot of people, I think, who USED to be wealthy but who aren't any more because of their involvement in CofS.

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Post by Ball of Fluff » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:53 am

Toney, I haven't said I want you to leave. I think you should post wherever you like and I've no interest in driving you off this forum or off any forum. I haven't asked anybody to kick you off the board. I have never asked that anybody be kicked off the board. Posts dustbinned- yes. Person off the whole entire board- nope.

Yes, there is a moderated section but there are ROCs for the whole board.

BTW, Franklin and I on F'net have kissed and made up, so to speak. I'm really really glad about that. I have told him some things on the forum that he'd been saying he wanted me to say for the longest. He's evidently just passionate about his Christian beliefs and tends to act the way I do when he thinks he's being attacked in any way.

Yes, I post on the Satanism threads. As someone who was brought up in a very religious home, I find it very fascinating but I'd not be interested in personally trying it or anything. I like "DA666" who posts there. Nice guy. I don't have a problem with people doing that. That doesn't mean I want to. I don't. Hope that clears that matter up.

As to posting to someone over time being "stalking"- nope. It depends on what has been said and is the person following the other person around and for what purpose.

Anyway, what I wrote on ars today lays it out, what was said that was true and that was not true.

Personally, I'd not suggest quoting someone who is in very bad odor with ARS for outing a critic on the forum, has attacked a number of people and has been in many squabbles and very few polite conversations on ars, and is, evidently, an extremely party line CofS member, which is generally the sort of person of whom you do not approve, AFAIK.

Your post today had some odd timing, for sure. It was written in response to my dropping an issue and electing to no longer rehash it. And I'm still not going to do so. I do too much rehash as it is.

My posts on B'net are low key and there's not been much argumentation. Other contributors are, currently, far more wroth with one another than with yrs truly. And if you really read the forum, you'd know that. If you have read B'net, then your omission of the facts thereof is interesting.

There is only one way for me to resolve the problems I have with a couple people with whom I've had consistent battles in the past- other than agreeing with them all the time, which I'm certainly not gonna do. :lol:

And that is for me to stop responding to them or to very rarely say anything to them-even when they are being polite. That may not seem fair but it is because a certain pattern has been repeated many times.

As it happens, I do not want to hear about how I'm a this and a that. I don't know of anyone who would. I highly doubt that you would.

But the whole MB knows I don't want to hear this stuff. They know it's ad hominem and that Andreas and Merlin don't really want that on here. That point's already been made and not just by me. It's time for me to stop saying it. I made my point already and I have been belaboring it.

There're a couple people whom I either don't have on ignore or used to have on ignore but started communicating with. Since it's always going to be the same pattern with them, then, I'm going to post to them very rarely or not at all regardless of post content.

Hopefully this will improve matters here.

Writing posts about what CofS does, what might help in a pamphlet, what happened to David Mayo -and others as I've written in the last few days-is a far more pleasant endeavor and hopefully a more worthwhile one.

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merlin
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Re: We've been here many times before.

Post by merlin » Tue Oct 25, 2005 4:37 am

Toney wrote:Lt.Richa1 wrote:"All others, including you merlin..."

Merlin, you recently directed someone to the Link: I'm lost section of OCMB. This section you higlighted also includes the often overlooked:

"Why all the strange and angry posts?"

"The cult and individual cult apologists will always try to distract or disturb any critical debate. One way of doing so is to make pretend they are critics. They are also here on OCMB so you should not take any claims for granted. Be truly sceptical and measure people on what they actually contribute and not only on what they write or claim. Be extra cautious if you see people trying to distract the debate by soliciting ad hominem attacks or promote off topic subjects."

So, according to the much emphasised rules of conduct for this forum, Church of Scientology operatives are here. They're not only lurking here, but, THEY'RE POSTING HERE.
- Wotcha, Toney!

Well, that isn't actually part of the rules of conduct. It's from the FAQ. Andreas wrote that several years ago, and it reflects his estimation of the situation at that time. In those days I myself had some heated exchanges with posters I suspected of being "Church of Scientology" operatives. Certainly they were party-line Scientologists. But what of it? I learnt something from those exchanges, and I hope the Scienos did as well.

A post-by-post review of this thread will show who it was who bogged down "ALL MEANINGFUL DISCUSSION to be about [Claire Swazey]". The thread wasn't about her until they made it be about her. In effect, they distracted the discussion and took it off topic. IOW, in a sense, they "did OSA's work". Still, one ought not say they did that to deflect criticism of Scientology - One knows better, eh?
In your opinion, as a moderator, who are these people?
- I have opinions about the people who post on OCMB, of course. But as a moderator I must keep them to myself. I will say that, in my opinion, there are currently no OSA agents or "operatives" posting here.
I've seen the posted and unchallenged statements from supposedly respected regulars, that CoS only LURK here.
- Only supposedly respected?
They're in a minority for sure, but surely, who they are is self-evident? Most regulars here have their own opinion as to whom who such might be, but when they sometimes express such an opinion, an opinion that I daresay 90+ of us here share, they are admonished and sometimes (rarely, admittedly) even banned from the moderated section.
- No one has been banned from the moderated section for expressing an opinion. To be banned from the moderated section, one must have engaged in a pattern of behaviour contrary to the Rules of Conduct and, despite having been warned about such behaviour, have nevertheless persisted in it.

Look, it's really not hard to understand. The Rules of Conduct apply to everyone. They exist in order to provide a place: "Opinions & Debate MODERATED" - where people may have their say without being harassed. Don't want to be banned from that place? - Don't bash people there. Simple. Really.

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Shmoodles
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Post by Shmoodles » Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:05 am

pitbull wrote: Auditing has produced excellent results. Many new offshoots of scientology have produced exellent results.
Prove it.
With real, hard science.

I've not seen ANY proof that auditing is good for anything, except as a means to obtain deeply personal humiliating information about people, in order to better manipulate them, and thereby keep their victims in the clutches of the Cult.

Yes, "confession is good for the soul"... any priest or liscenced pscychotherapist will tell you as much. The difference between cult auditors And such professionals is that the confessional is a sacred trust, and therapists are bound by law to not disclose private information about their clients or patients.

But there are no such professional standards or laws about Scientology auditors, are there?

It's a racket. And it's a form of emotional, mental, psychological and even spiritual abuse.

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Ltricha1
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Post by Ltricha1 » Tue Oct 25, 2005 1:14 pm

Score is now -14
[url=http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=220008#220008]$cientology's real product[/url]
[url=http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=16563]Read[/url]
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jonny
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Post by jonny » Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:56 am

Ok, this post is getting very long, and I will stop it soon. But first, just a couple more questions, if you can indulge me....

First, I read about the purif on this site. So you all know, I took it. I spend a lot of time in the gym and it seemed reasonable. What's all this about liver damage????? If you can tell me, please do!! Also, on this topic, when I did it, I saw old sunburns come out in spades. They were as plain as day, and I did it in the winter!! Once I felt very stoned, I attributed it to a previous experience with pot....any thoughts???

Actually, I'll leave it at that for now. This is quite hard to process, to think, 5 days ago, I thought you were all a bunch of nutcases. I'm going to leave that last statement, but please, don't think of it as an insult. If I still felt that way, I would have left this site immediatley, and I would not still be posting!!!

Hubbard's Mushroom
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Post by Hubbard's Mushroom » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:04 am

What seems like an old sunburn is called a niacin flush.
Too much niacin causes liver damage.

If you look in the health food store at the niacin, they
now have some new niacin pills that won't cause the skin to flush.
I wonder what Hubbard would have thought about that?

Don Carlo
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Post by Don Carlo » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:19 am

If you look at your face under a special light, you see red splotches from old sunburns. These just are broken blood vessels. Niacin, running, and saunas all dilate those blood vessels and possibly break more of them. They are not "healing" the old sunburn.

There's no proof niacin gets rid of drug residues. See quick debunking at
NarCONon Still Promoting Ron's Quack "Stored in Fat" Science

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Ltricha1
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Post by Ltricha1 » Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:24 am

jonny wrote:Ok, this post is getting very long, and I will stop it soon. But first, just a couple more questions, if you can indulge me....
By all means DO NOT STOP!
[url=http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?p=220008#220008]$cientology's real product[/url]
[url=http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=16563]Read[/url]
Tech is the Carrot,
Admin is the Cart,
Ethics is the whip,
Guess who the Horses are.

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Shmoodles
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Post by Shmoodles » Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:23 pm

I took niacin once, from a recommendation of a friend who was into homeopathic remedies.

What happened was within 2-3 minutes of taking a tiny niacin tablet, I broke out into a rash all over my body... It felt like my skin was burning, and I started to sweat, and it was really hurting and very frightening... I thought I was having a full body allergic reaction to it... and the only relief I could get was to sit in a cold tub of water and run cold water from the shower water over me, for about an 25 minutes,

Very scary.
Last damn time to took advice from a friend about homeopathic remedies!

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