S.Rose,

Yep, Janice was married to Gary Cupp! I couldn't recall his last name, though I'd seen him several times over the years. He manages an All-V's.

Diane Pool had long beautiful straight hair, dark blonde or light brown. She was quite attractive after losing that weight. I think her brother was named Dave Poole, and he was an OT7. I think their parents had money, too. He was one of those doing drywall finishing on the side, so he could afford OT levels. He had a small, really cute blonde wife. She was not on staff.

What was Randi's husbands name? He was a public, and very defensive when he talked to staff members. I remember there was quite a buzz from a rumor that he was an RSer. I had a few students who RS'd while I was word clearing them on the meter, but I never reported it or put it in my admin. RS'ers were treated like s**t, and I didn't want to have anything to do with that.

Caroline Beck was ORIGINALLY from Breckenridge. She was one of the few OT's on staff, and she was a great inspiration to become OT. Now we know she was great just because she was great, all by herself. (In spite of Scn.)

It's funny recalling the weird communication at the org. Instead of a reply to your communcation, they'd make you read policy about CSW's or "Bringing a Body". I am laughing out loud right now thinking of this strange way of "managing". I also hated the rudeness of some staffers, interrupting, and not being able to talk to some, because they'd shut you out until you got them a CSW or written memo of some sort.
"Write it up!" The vast amount of useless paperwork generated was incredible. I got sick to death of people trying to "Tone 40"-intend me to do something. I am totally resistant to that now, another great side benefit.

"Protecting your post" was the wisest course if you didn't want Ethics or the Sea Org missionaries down your throat all the time. I never could get the hang of it. Like you, I like to work with people, cooperatively, and get a better result from having pooled resources. I guess we aren't "tough" enough. (Translation: we haven't learned how to become assholes.)

The talk about taking responsibility, and then refusing to help you when you asked a question, by saying "Make it go right!", was so contradictory, and frustrating, that I thought most staffers were just covering up ignorance or laziness. Fortunately, there were enough staffers who would at least show you the nutty policy or tech to half-ass answer your question. Once you word cleared it enough to give in and agree with it! :):)

This irresponsibility is also a terrible plight in corporate America, as training is always given a back seat to production, to the detriment of the final products produced.

Later on, in "wog" life, I had a senior who would say "Get it done", "Make it happen", and other such catch phrases, and I had severe Scientology flashbacks. :):):):) To this day I hate manipulative or canned management, especially the One-Minute Manager crap.

I am so glad that Scientlogy isn't "Taking over the environment complete." Don't you just love these goofy quotes?

Another mixed up mess in Scn. is 3rd party. The organization generated tons of 3rd party all by itself, in it's Ethics practices, and prevented any real change by misinterpreting accurate negative data. My wife and I once noticed some real out-ethics being perpetrated by her senior, so we both reported it, in a calm and polite manner, with great detail and the relevant policies, trying to get it corrected without rancor, and we were both sent to Ethics and put through lower conditions for being horrible 3rd party promulgators. That was fun! We became "ethical", and felt so much better!

I've gotta watch the Avalanche beat the Sharks, so bye until tomorrow.

Ultra Cat,

Yeah, I knew Kevin Sedule very well, and liked him, and we did some TR's and other stuff together, until he started flirting big-time with my wife.(And she with him, to my dismay.) We all had a long talk at the Denny's on Alameda(sound familiar), and the situation fixed itself when he got together with Diane.

The name Brad Fox sounds familiar, but I get no face in my mind to go with it. Was he staff, and what post?

Maggie Magness was one of the Sea Org missionaries I mentioned, who ended up being in the RPF when I got to LA. I try not to hold hate in my heart for anyone, but I hated her, and loved seeing her in the RPF. I'm only human! :)
I hope she got out and got a life, and regained her sanity. I vividly recall her grey hair.
She was really looking hangdog when I saw her in L.A. She saw me, and looked embarrassed and totally beaten down. She chewed me out at one point while I was out there, but she had no authority over me, and I just listened until she finished, and walked away without a word, and ignored her from then on. That gave me great satisfaction. She was very good at intimidation, Tone 40, yelling and such, but she came across as very nasty and mean-spirited most of the time. She was the one that had the shouting match with Joe M., and everyone in the org could hear it. He won, though. Joe was my hero after that.

I recall Don Lowe, but he was not the guy I was thinking of. The guy I am thinking of had dark hair, short and curly, I think. About 6 feet tall, and well built. Came across as a teddy bear.

The name Slim Spurling doesn't ring a bell at all for me. What years were you there, Ultra-C? I was there from 1979-1983. For some reason, I keep thinking of a biker type when I see the name Slim Spurling. Maybe it does ring a bell.

One more for Ultra Cat:

Remember Barb Wing? She was an extremely attractive blonde (public until just before I left) with tons of sex appeal, so much that she made most of the other women at the org very jealous, including my wife. She flirted a lot with all the guys, married or not, seemingly unaware of her flirtations.) I liked her, but she really got all the guy's hormones going, so it was difficult to be around her without losing your TR's and being totally distracted. (There were some very attractive women on training, too, so as a course sup, I had a problem keeping my mind on finding that elusive misunderstood.) :):):):) I mentioned that we were operating on pure hormones, and I wasn't kidding. Maybe it was just me.

Barb joined the Sea Org in 83. I was so shocked, and thought she'd last about a month. I hope she got out safely. She was a really sweet person, and had a good heart. (Waaaaaay too much sex appeal, though.) :):):):):)

Kevin and Diane Sedule live in Atlanta, and have for years. She's field auditor.

an amazing thread - I live in Denver now - never visited the place when I was in the SO. I don't even know where the org is in the city.

Only person I ever met from round this area while I was in was a guy called Knutson who was from Boulder and was doing the briefing course at St Hill.

It's funny to read the stories..

UltraCat: the name Spurling is really familiar, but I’m not sure about Slim. Is that a nick; did he have another name? Brad Fox is definitely a familiar name, but I can’t place the face. Did he do a funny bullbaiting thing where he did his imitation of Donald Duck having an orgasm? Or was he a dark-haired guy with a jeep?

By the way, are you still in? Or would you rather not say?

Denver: I remember a really tall, dark haired, handsome guy that was there the same time I was.....but I simply CANNOT come up with a name! He was really mellow, kind, and curteous. And one of the only “helpful” people there. Might be the one you’re thinking of.....?

Remembered a few more names.....Bob and Barb Ewing? Bob looked a little bit like Charles Manson? And a big, hunky blonde guy named Randy something.....and a cute hispanic girl named Ginger (Rodriguez?). Also Mona Braun, ex-wife of Dennis. And a black girl named Brenda. Oh, and there was a really popular attractive girl named Dee Hoogstra; I think she joined SO at Flag and got married. Charlie: anything?

Mick: I think the org is currently in Englewood, but I’m not really sure.....I want to say I clicked on “Denver Org” when I was surfing once, out of curiosity. It wouldn’t surprise me, the nunnery on Navajo was a nice big building, and they probably have a lot of trouble now filling even a small space. Sigh....I do have fond memories of “the dungeon”!

S’all for now!

Charlie,

Thanks for the info on Kevin and Diane. I liked both of them; they were good people.

Mick W.

I knew a Scn. couple, Jon and June Knutson. She came from a Spanish family, and had beautiful bronze skin. Jon had a brother who was also in Scn., but I can't recall his name.

S. Rose,

The dark haired guy with the jeep was Steve something-or-other, and he was a course sup who dug swimming pools on the side. He had an old beat-up Jeep Wrangler. Does that sound right?
Steve had dark hair and a bushy moustache when I was there, and he always looked a bit unkempt, with his hair being somewhat wild, and that bushy moustache.

There were some great bullbaiters, expecially Mike Sullivan, who did this thing about having had throat cancer, and talking with one of those buzzing things you place against your throat. I thought I'd never get through that session! I still crack up thinking about it. I remember the Donald Duck having an orgasm thing, and I think severa people did it. Bullbaiting was our Scn. entertainment. As sup's, we had lots of opportunities to see great bullbaiting, and that is why sup's made such good bullbaiters, because they got lots of great ideas from their students. I swear Deane MacDonald could crack up ANYONE in 30 seconds flat, she was that good. I think she did the Donald Duck thing, too, and a lot of stuff about blow jobs. I had to pass TR's with her testing me, and she was tough, so I was SURE I had been flattened on most bullbaiting possibilities.

"I declare it's marked out just like a giant chess board!"

"Weak tea and treacle."

"Jabberwocky:
Twas brillig and the slithey tothes, gyred and gimballed in the wabe.
All mimsy were the borogroves, and the momeraths outgrabe." (As I recall it.....)

And my favorite:
"Why, I’m afraid I can’t explain myself, sir, because I’m not myself, you know..."

That quote applies to staff members trying to explain why they didn't "make things go right"! :):):)

I should remember Brad Fox, and the name is very familiar, but I can't get a face at all, nor one of Slim Spurling.

The big hunky blonde Randy, I think ended up marrying Kathy in Qual, and they were a great couple. He was not on staff when I was there, but she was in Qual.

Barb and Bob Ewing ring a bell, didn't they have several kids, and they were public? I think I recall one of our staff, Mike Lowe, got Barb using Spirulina during one of her pregnancies, and she said it kept her from having morning sickness.

I believe I recall Brenda; I think Dwight had a crush on her. She was a very sweet and upbeat lady, and quite attractive. Dee Hoogstra sounds familiar, too and I recall Mona Braun, too. Sort of a sad expression on her face all the time?

My best friend, Chris Davis, resigned from Scientology about the time I did. He had done most of his NOT's, and since he had had diabeties since his youth, had to have a kidney transplant.
He did very well for about a year, and then one day his mom called me and said he had died. I can't recall his ex-wife's name, maybe Marnie. He died in 1984 or 1985. Chris was a good guy, and I sure miss him.

The name Charlie makes me think of one public student who took a lot of training courses, and was co-auditing Dianetics through the Levels. If this is the same guy I'm thinking of, he was a sup's nightmare, and gave these long-winded strange "wins" at the end of course time. Course sup's would pull their hair out hearing some of these oddball "wins" that contained all sorts of altered tech and crazy new realizations. Other students would have to be "rehabbed" from hearing some of these nutty "wins" the students volunteered. :):):):) He would also use a lot of jargon, so half of the newbie students would need some serious word clearing next session, if they didn't blow entirely from hearing the crazy stuff. We finally ended up separating the newbie students from the experienced ones, because of the "wins". :):)

Wish I could recall some more names.........

Hey you guys,

This thread is a wonderful thing, not because I know any of the players in Denver but for the exchange of "good" memories. It reminds me that there were good times, a thing easy to forget, and that the people were people, no different than any other, and that even in the present people in Scn are just people, good, bad, indifferent, but always memorable.

Yeah, I wish I could have the same conversation. Maybe another day. Good for you, and I hope more follow.

Denver: Bob and Barb Ewing were on staff when I started there; they might have left and become public. Only one kid at that time, but probably made more.

Chris Davis......big guy, reddish-brown hair, glasses, sometimes a beard? Either way, I’m sorry to hear he died.

(Sorry.....when I said “Charlie” in the last post, I was kind of asking OUR Charlie if she might know of this person.....) But I loved YOUR Charlie story!

Your description of Steve sounds like who I’m thinking of, except for the mustache.

Oh, and when you mentioned the Denny’s on Alameda......LOL! What a great hangout, with crappy parking. Deja Vu!

Hans: thank you for your thoughts! This is such an uplifting experience for me, 'cause I have never spoken to/written to anyone at that org who could discuss these things as we are now. And you're right, it brings back the realization that most Scios are just good people trying to do a good thing.

Saguara Rose, no. I've never lived in Denver so I wouldn't know the others. I knew Kevin and Diane from my years in Atlanta. She audited my grades and NED, and couldn't have been a better auditor, as far as auditing goes, or more skilled. I really love Diane and it is too bad she has made a goofy, silly agreement and, as a result, feels she can no longer communicate with me.

Steve was one of those guys who would grow a moustache, then shave it off, then grow it again, then shave it off. He didn't have a moustache when I first met him.

Chris Davis was tall and with light brown hair, but no glasses(maybe contacts?), and he didn't have a beard when I knew him, but he may have had a moustache. Chris made a living hanging wallpaper, and was very good at it.

A couple more names:

Chuck Shermerhorn, a public guy who had his own painting company. I can't recall his wife's name, maybe Barbara.
Chuck had very curly hair, and it looked like an afro, though he was white.

Jim ? worked for Chuck, and got some Dianetics from one of the field auditors. Jim was very upbeat. His wife was named Pam, and she was an actress, and Italian, but not a Scientologist. Nocerino was her maiden name.

Yeah, that Denny's was a common hangout for org staffers, and you sure got it right about the crappy parking!

Remember OT's saying that the Organ Grinder restaurant looked like an implant station? That is too funny! Hey, don't invalidate my knowingness! I can change traffic lights, too! (a common claim I heard in Scn) I recall doing the running program, and being told by Joe M. to create tractor beams to pull me ahead, wrapping those beams around trees. Oh, yeah, I think I am going faster!!!!!

When I met some New Ager's A.S.(After Scn.), I was less than accepting of their views, so sorry.

Hans, if you were at another org, why not start a thread about the people and expereinces there? I'll bet you'll find some people who knew some of your friends back then. I must admit I was quite surprised and gratified to find some others who had worked at the Denver org.

I'm glad you have enjoyed this thread. It sure has been fun for me! I prefer to find the humor and good times in my memories, not just gloom and doom.

Another hilarious memory: Mike Lowe at one time drove a taxicab he had bought as a used car. It was a big yellow monstrosity, that still had the taxi thingy on top, so it still looked exactly like a cab, though without any name on it. We had found a job putting in some storm windows, and BS'ed the boss into thinking we knew what we were doing, and you should have seen the look on the first customer's face when we drove up with $2000 worth of storm windows in the back of a taxicab! God, that was priceless! Needless to say, we did NOT do that job or any other job for that company. The customer called the office, and we were fired before we even did our first job. But Boss, we were making things go right!
Have you no shame? No!

Yep, most of the people were good, but the organization sucked! The people rose above their circumstances, and most stayed good people in spite of the negative influences.

Fascinating conversation.

For details of Missionholders conference
go to http://www.fzint.org

There are also all the Jon Zegal tapes,
briefings from David mayo etc.

bb

Jim Widmann was the name of the guy who worked for Chuck Shermerhorn.

The memories are bubbling up from the dusty recesses of my abused mind.

Denver: “Remember OT's saying that the Organ Grinder restaurant looked like an implant station?” ROFLMAO!!! Yes! Yes! I remember them saying that!!!! (Hmmmmm......wonder if anybody ever “recalled” an implant station that served pizza.....?)

I remember Joe M (and, didn’t he prefer to be called “Joseph”?) doing the “tractor beam” thing when he was driving. He certainly did get wherever he was going QUICKLY!!! Hey, tractor beams or no, there’s a lot to be said for “mind over matter”!!!!

Charlie: I am sorry, I was not at all clear about what I said. I was speaking of a lady named Dee Hoogstra, who I believe went to work at Flag down there, only I think she’s married now so probably has a different last name. And then I wrote “Charlie—anything?”, meaning, maybe our Charlie knows of such a person at Flag. Sorry about the confusion! And it IS a terrible shame about Diane.

Ya, me too, with the old, suppressed memories oozing slowly to the surface!!! Let's see what else we can dredge up from the swamp, eh?

And, thanks for the link, BB!