KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

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sekh
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by sekh » Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:14 pm

I just read the story on Marty's blog, and it's hard to find words for it.

Disgusting comes closest, I think. Not just for the behavior of DM, which is typical for the psychopath he is, but even more for the lack of real care from LAPD, of whom many would have expected more.

SICKENING & SHAMEFUL, like Smurf said. Unfortunately this attitude of the police makes it hard for family and friends to do something about the situation.

Keeping Heber's name in publicity is probably the only thing caring strangers can do to help. I hope this injustice will come to an end soon, so Heber can reunite with his loved ones.

Much strength and love to all of you. Sekh
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Tigger
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by Tigger » Mon Mar 07, 2011 3:08 pm

Hi Karen,

How is Heber's health....physical and/or mental?

Is there any possibility that a relative could ask for a court order for a physical and/or mental checkup?

And/or for a meeting with Heber unsupervised by Scientologists?

If that could be arranged, would
Heber be able to ask for help?

Tigger
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by Karen#1 » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:01 am

Tigger wrote:Hi Karen,

How is Heber's health....physical and/or mental?

Is there any possibility that a relative could ask for a court order for a physical and/or mental checkup?

And/or for a meeting with Heber unsupervised by Scientologists?

If that could be arranged, would
Heber be able to ask for help?

Tigger
Dear Tigger,

Thanks for asking about Heber. Even though he is in his twilight years, he has been only permitted to see his son Alexander Jentzsch a couple of times in the last 7 years.
Jane Jentzsch was the Australian Girl he married after he divorced me. But when Miscavige had Heber in lock down, he was not permitted to phone or be in touch her (his legal married spouse)
for some 3 years, whereupon Jane blew the Sea Org and OSA INT where she was an auditor.

Instead of a normal SUPPRESSIVE PERSON declare for blowing, the Church has gotten to re-think its policies in view of the fact that their ATROCITIES and BRUTALITIES are broadcast far and wide. Think of the bad PR of Jane Jentzsch's stories on the web......

So they held her hand, gently, gently, cancelled her FREELOADER Debt and softly and sweetly did a "leaving Sec Check"

Can you FEEL the LOVE ?

Heber suffers from Stockholm Syndrome. I don't believe given the data I am given about him that he can think straight.

Here is what occurred to him in recent years at GOLD BASE ~~

http://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/0 ... /#comments

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Murray Luther
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by Murray Luther » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:35 am

"Heber suffers from Stockholm Syndrome."

Thank you for that candid statement, Karen. It's something I never wanted to presume, but it's something I've suspected. It certainly explains much.

I was never on a first name basis, but I met Heber on several occasions, as we had mutual colleagues. And of course I knew him well as the witty and charismatic spokesman for the COS for so many years. He always impressed me as someone who never tolerated BS.

It's a wonder that no one has slapped DM in the nose. He'd break into tears like the Cowardly Lion. That or go terminally type 3.
"Whatever ultimate fate the Church may meet, its true legacy must outlive the lie."

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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by AnonyMary » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:11 am

Karen, you and his current wife can and should contact the county adult protective services to investigate. I thought of Heber when last week I saw this gut wretching testimony by actor, Mickey Rooney on TV.

Mickey Rooney Testifies Before Congress on Elder Abuse, Urges Others to Speak Out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST_7kf7UCqw

Hearing on elder abuse
Bloomberg
Last Updated: 2:32 AM, March 3, 2011

Actor Mickey Rooney said Congress should pass legislation to end elder abuse in a hearing before the Senate Special Committee on Aging yesterday.

"My money was stolen from me, by someone close," said Rooney, 90, an entertainment legend whose credits include the "Andy Hardy" film series and movies such as "Night at the Museum." "I was eventually and completely stripped of the ability to make even the most basic decisions in my own life."

Rooney told other seniors who may be victims not to stay silent as he did for years. "You are not alone and you have nothing to be ashamed of," he said.

Senator Herb Kohl, (D-Wis.) chairman of the aging committee, said he was reintroducing the "Elder Abuse Victims Act" yesterday.

The bill would establish an Office of Elder Justice within the Department of Justice and strengthen enforcement in cases of abuse.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/h ... z1GGjxHN4d


Mickey Rooney Elder Abuse: Actor Tells Congress About His Suffering [VIDEO]

Being a Hollywood legend couldn't protect Mickey Rooney from a sad problem afflicting many: elder abuse.

Two weeks ago, Rooney, who is 90, was granted a restraining order against his stepson Christopher Aber. A court hearing has been scheduled for April regarding the allegations.

Rooney says that Aber and Aber's wife withheld food and medication and tried to force him to sign over assets. He also alleges that Aber was verbally abusive and prevented him from leaving the house.

"Mickey is extremely fearful that Chris will become physically threatening against Mickey and may even attempt to kidnap Mickey from his home," the petition for the restraining order said.

Now, Rooney has taken his story to Washington. On Wednesday, he testified before the Senate Special Committee on Aging about what he went through and pressed the lawmakers to pass legislation specifically addressing elder abuse.

Watch part of his testimony:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST_7kf7UCqw

"I'm asking you to stop this elderly abuse. I mean to stop it. Now. Not tomorrow, not next month, but now," he told the Senate.

After the hearing ended, the chairman of the committee, Sen. Herb Kohl, D-Wis., introduced a proposal that would establish an Office of Elder Justice within the Justice Department.

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/03/03/micke ... ongress-a/
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Just a Stat-ICK
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by Just a Stat-ICK » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:07 am

Wow! I am breathless reading this. I am a ex public that spun around for about 5 years and am happy to be newly out of the Cult.

I don't understand why no one can get Heber out? What do the laws say about him along with many others being gone, missing and not reachable? This is unbelievable! Surely something can be done (sorry for the phrase) to free these people. Can anyone shed some light on a public that had no clue this was a criminal organization until I found the sites on the internet?

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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by MirnaMinkoff » Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:16 am

Just a Stat-ICK wrote:Wow! I am breathless reading this. I am a ex public that spun around for about 5 years and am happy to be newly out of the Cult.

I don't understand why no one can get Heber out? What do the laws say about him along with many others being gone, missing and not reachable? This is unbelievable! Surely something can be done (sorry for the phrase) to free these people. Can anyone shed some light on a public that had no clue this was a criminal organization until I found the sites on the internet?
It's a long story and many reasons but here are a few:

When interviewed those still "in" at Int base fiercely protect DM, lie and say he is the greatest guy in the world, etc.. The cult has forced countless people at Int to sign statements to this effect and then use it as PR response to critics. Any time any of the execs at INT have appeared in public to defend DM they are surrounded by minders and every word they speak is pre-rehearsed so bad that they many time use the same phrases. (See Anderson Cooper interview with the "wives.")

2. Stockholm syndrome, a condition where victims start empathizing with their abusers. This is particular bad in CoS because of the thinking "I've pulled it in" or "Im out ethics" etc...

3. Threat of losing their eternity and being off the bridge to "total freedom" forever. Then take into account many of the people at INT have been SO members most of their adult life, with little education, no job history and very little contact with the modern outside world. They are constantly told how awful the wog world is and if the leave the SO they will end up flipping burgers, homeless or worse.

4. CoS legal muscle means anything the authorities try to do they will be met with fierce resistance, a huge legal battle that will drag on for years and cost millions - most agencies just don't have the budget to in that kind of struggle in the end. Add to the fact these are adults, who chose to join and work there, it comes down to resources being used on more needy victims on cases they can win without 10 years and a bazillion spent.

5. Late reporting. With very few exceptions when people have left INT they still believe in Scientology, many times think it's there fault and are very worried about getting their freeloader debt paid and back on the bridge. Only after time to decompress does the reality of what happened to them start to sink in and they realize what a fucked up situation it was - living normal life free of abuse helps this process. On average it seems 4 years is about the decompression time needed before victims start speaking out (rathbun, Rinder, cook, scobee, and many others fit this.) unfortunately authorities can't do much about crimes witnessed 4 years ago, besides there being no crime scene or fresh witnesses, many times the statue of limitations on crimes like assault have passed.)

The above are some of the main reasons, but there are many more and far more detail behind what I've listed, but if you keep reading you will learn all about this and much more.

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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by ChurchOfCylontology » Sun Mar 18, 2012 5:41 am

MirnaMinkoff wrote:
Just a Stat-ICK wrote:
2. Stockholm syndrome, a condition where victims start empathizing with their abusers. This is particular bad in CoS because of the thinking "I've pulled it in" or "Im out ethics" etc...
I see this psychological phenomenon thrown around quite a bit when it comes to Scientology critiques, and in my opinion only those that are physically (not mentally) held captive can be labeled with this experience, like Heber. But we all know that Heber is far from Patty Hearst because he was not kidnapped at gun point then raped, lied to, and abused to only then defend his captors. Heber may have Stockholm Syndrome after years of being incarcerated but all Scientologists, even the Independent variety, experience cognitive dissonance which is the mental incarceration caused by the tech. Cognitive dissonance stole Heber's "will" well before he was held against it. It is the cognitive dissonance that convinces him that he 'pulled it in' and deserves this treatment.

I give Karen a lot of credit for speaking out. I haven't seen anything from her in awhile about her son so I hope everything is OK with that.

MirnaMinkoff
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by MirnaMinkoff » Sun Mar 18, 2012 7:21 am

ChurchOfCylontology wrote:
MirnaMinkoff wrote:
Just a Stat-ICK wrote:
2. Stockholm syndrome, a condition where victims start empathizing with their abusers. This is particular bad in CoS because of the thinking "I've pulled it in" or "Im out ethics" etc...
I see this psychological phenomenon thrown around quite a bit when it comes to Scientology critiques, and in my opinion only those that are physically (not mentally) held captive can be labeled with this experience, like Heber. But we all know that Heber is far from Patty Hearst because he was not kidnapped at gun point then raped, lied to, and abused to only then defend his captors. Heber may have Stockholm Syndrome after years of being incarcerated but all Scientologists, even the Independent variety, experience cognitive dissonance which is the mental incarceration caused by the tech. Cognitive dissonance stole Heber's "will" well before he was held against it. It is the cognitive dissonance that convinces him that he 'pulled it in' and deserves this treatment.

I give Karen a lot of credit for speaking out. I haven't seen anything from her in awhile about her son so I hope everything is OK with that.
I used the term more because it was being discussed in this thread. I do think it's good to introduce the concept to Scientologists (and new exes) because they probably don't know about seeing as though it's a psychological term, and we know how they feel about psychs.

I'm of divided opinion about whether Stockholm syndrome can apply to adult Scientologist, who freely chose to join the cult. I think far more than anything to do with Stockholm is the Scio teaching of "pulling it in, overts, out-ethics, PTS" that makes these conditions inside INT possible, not to mention the old cult favorite of mass forced confessions (favored in the hole I understand) and group humiliation - those two actions are custom made to break people and force them into total submission.

I also think this is one reason, among several, law enforcement hesitates to intervene. For the most part These are adults who chose to join CoS and the SO (except for 2nd children who were signed over by their parents, whole other category) and law enforcement has to deal with so many people who are total victims of senseless crime I think they have a difficultly viewing the people at INT as real "victims" - brainwashed cult victims, yes, victims, no. I also have heard small gestures that have been made in Hemet to cult members for help have been rudely rebuffed, so I think they write them off. However, I have noticed that whenever a cult member escapes the grounds and are intent on leaving Int the cops have been more than happy to help/ escort them out and keep cult thugs from hassling and chasing them.

Don Carlo
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by Don Carlo » Sun Mar 18, 2012 4:26 pm

If anyone knows of a Children's RPF, please quietly notify the State Attorney General (because local cops might warn CoS of a raid so the RPF can move the kids). With children, the RPF is clearly child abuse whether the child "agrees" to it or not.

Florida Attorney General: http://myfloridalegal.com/Contact.nsf/Contact

Calif. Attorney General: https://oag.ca.gov/victimservices/contact

Really??
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by Really?? » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:46 am

Sending peace and love your way Karen

Also I would try contacting Adult Protective Services, they can be quite effective. They are the same type of agency as Child Protective Services (CPS), but designed to meet the needs of the elderly.

I do believe CoS has had many encounters with CPS and that the agency is actually responsible for CoS changing the policies about families being allowed in SO. Of course this contact would have been long ago.

I would quickly find out what you need to know and what needs to be reported. This agency will have highly qualified people to ascertain the extent of his physiological/physical abuses and they are able to "swoop" in and take control of the abused elderly. Beware....they may have CoS members located within the ranks of this agency, but it should be easy enough to get around these people if you know they exist within the county operated system

Good Luck

AndCott
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by AndCott » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:37 am

Hello,

I am new to this board.....i can only say I am very confused....I took COS courses when I was 18 years old and a few auditing sessions at the Celebrity Center in Los Angeles...then I read "Bare Faced Messiah" and "Messiah or Madman". and understood why I felt so "uncomfortable" during my few days there....I cannot understand why this is allowed to continue...can someone tell me WHY there is no effort to involve law enforcement in the stories of "The Hole" at Int Base or the RPF or Miscavige's abuses?? I know Mark Headley has tried and did not succeed but is there no other way?? We can all read here about the enslavement and abuses but if nothing is done, I don't see the point.

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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by I'mglib » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:42 am

Hi, AndCott. Welcome to the board.

There has been a lot of effort to get law enforcement involved. Many people have talked to police about welfare checks, and even the FBI. Nothing is done because law enforcement sees it as adults who willingly join a cult (in a nutshell).

Marc and Claire Headley tried to sue the church, and the court threw it out, mainly because it didn't want to get involved in deciding what is religious doctrine.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:11 pm

Welcome, Andcott,
Part of the problem is the statute of limitations, even for beating people, means you have to file within a year or two, and you need, ideally, witnesses (or emergency-room proof of your beating) plus lots of money to survive in court.

It's frustratingly slow to bring down CoS, but at least in the short term, critical message boards save people from joining. Someone might take a free personality test and get interested in CoS, but if they Google search, they find critic sites like this.

AndCott
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Re: KAREN'S STORY (ex Mrs. Heber Jentzsch)

Post by AndCott » Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:18 pm

Hi Don Carlo,

Yes, I understand. It's just mind boggling how this could go on for so long...and I am very grateful about all the media and forums that have been coming out the past few years letting people know what is happening. Also, I didn't mean to write "if nothing is done, I don't see the point" in my initial post. That came off wrong. :) There is a very strong and successful movement against them with these stories and I know that it's working. I'm wondering if there could ever be someone undercover with a camera at the Int Base. I know with the sec checking and monitoring it would be difficult but I think that would be amazing. But I'm confused about the children and why that can't be successfully investigated by the authorities? The only way would be a "raid" on the bases, etc. because otherwise they would be brainwashed and scared into saying they are "fine"...

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