I have been out of Scientology for about 4 years. They recently have been calling me to come back and finish the last course I was on when I left. I told them that I am not interested, but would like to get my $$ back. I figured that was a long shot, but to my surprise, the girl said I could come in to talk about it.
I should have known they were up to something. I go back in there, and they are trying to give me a free session to see "what went wrong" because they cannot understand why I don't want to waste my life and all my money away at their org anymore.
After going in circles for an hour, I finally got them to start my routing form to get my cash back. (only about 500 bucks) What a pain in the neck going through all this!
So anyways I still have not finished the routing form, and they want me to get on the meter to see if "their tech was out". I told them I don't want to get on a meter or be talked into staying anymore, and that I've made up my mind to just get my money back for the course. They still want to get me on the meter, and they said it will make everything "go faster". Well, I don't want any more sessions or mind reading crap from them. I just want my cash back.
Has anyone else actually gotten their money back, or are they just playing me?? I haven't tried to get my money back for 4 years because I knew it would be a hassle like this. But now I am more mad and ready to do their stupid routing forms for 9 hours if I have to so that I can WIN! Anybody who has any advice and/or warnings about this situation-I would appreciate it.

P.S. Will they try anything antagonistic against me since I have chosen to no longer be a member? I have been being as cool as I can to them, and am trying to be assertive and in no way threatening.

Catherine,

People can and do get their money back.

You are smart by not going on the meter. This is a play to get you back on course, "clear your misunderstoods," and sign you up for more courses.

Go ahead and work through the routing form, but be persistant. If you need to, say that you would prefer to handle this without your attorney, implying that that's what you will do if they play too many games.

Do you have friends or relatives still in Scientology? If so, they may be asked to disconnect from you as you will probably be declared an SP. Only you can decide if the $500 is worth losing those relationships.

If not, an SP declare won't make one bit of difference in your life.

Mike

Lovejones (wonderful handle!),

Plenty of people have gotten their money back. Ron clearly stated, very early on, that any pc who was dissatisfied should receive upon request a prompt and courteous refund of moneys paid. The only condition attached to this policy was that the ungrateful person could never again receive $cientology 'services', and (I believe) was required to sign a statement acknowledging that.

So, you must realise that should you succeed in getting your measly $500 back, you will be throwing away your Bridge to Total Freedom and will be choosing to spend your whole agonised future for All Eternity trapped in the WOG World of MEST and Entheta forever, and so forth, and so on?

- Have they tried that one on you yet?

My advice: Don't get mad, get even! Get your money back and leave them in your dust! Don't let them put you on the meter; they are liable to try charging you more money for a 'sec check'. - If one is neither staff nor Sea Org, it isn't required for routing out. If one is not a member of IAS in good standing, one need not even route out. They will try to feed you all sorts of BS, stall and delay if they can, but you simply stay resolute. They might try to get you to sign a gag agreement (that you will never say anything critical of $cientology or they can sue you) - but that's not necessary for a refund. Don't do it!

Just be cool, firm and persistent in your resolve to get your money back and have nothing further to do with Co$. Remember that they believe wholeheartedly in the 'reactive mind', and they are nothing if not reactive. They're not a 'turn-the-other-cheek religion', remember? So you don't threaten them, and they probably won't be too nasty to you.

Somehow, whenever it comes around to the 'church' of $cientology, I'm reminded of the truly inspired words of Kurt Vonnegut Jr: It's Never a Mistake to Say Goodbye!

Best of Luck, Lovejones! Cheers, and let us know how you make out, please!

Thanks for all the good advice so far from everyone!
I still haven't been back to the org, but have tried calling 3 times today and have been getting the run around. (Shocking!)
Isn't it amazing how they will drop everything (like they do anything around there anyways!)to sign you up for a course, but they just don't seem to be able to find the time to help me now.
The guy I'm dealing with is the coolest one there, but is still being an a@#hole about it. Obviously you can't trust any of them. They are stalling and saying that they are getting all my old receipts and paperwork together so that when I come in there I won't have to wait around as much.(nice try!) I waited the other day in the office for him 20 minutes when he said he was just gonna get a glass of water. I'm sure he was scheming something else. They are so EVIL, it is amazing to me that they get away with all this for so long! It has to stop!
You know, if I would've just gone in there and they gave me back my money with no hassles, I would just walk away peacefully and glad that that part of my life is over. But now since they are putting me through all this BS and treating me like a stupid child that doesn't have a brain to think on its own, have its own opinions, and make its own decisions, (you know how they work)- I am so mad that I am ready to make shutting down Scientology my new full time hobby! I really was just gonna walk away and occasionally feel sorry for anyone else who got suckered into them like I did, but now it is WAR!
They also did mention that I'd have to sign that form that says I won't say anything negative about Scientology, but I didn't get to that part on the routing form yet. What can I do to get out of that without them trying 20 million techniques to talk me into it? It seems to me that I have freedom of speech in this country, and they can't make me sign something that will tell me what NOT to say! Am I right??
I like Mike's post above that suggests using the line "I'd prefer to handle this without my attorney", but I think that is on the verge of threating them, which I don't want to have to do if not necessary. But believe me I'd like to!
I will let everyone know what happens whenever I can get back in there!

The name of the game is they have the money and you are like a fish trying to get the bait. They are not going to give it up. They might but they want to see what they can do to get to you first.
They already consider you the enemy if you are taking money from them. Even if it is yours first. Be level headed with them and after you get your $500 back what about the rest that you paid for the courses? Since, obviously, you disagree with the usefulness of the tech maybe you should consider getting all of your money back. But, one step at a time, since they do become vicious.

Lovejones, you wrote:

"They also did mention that I'd have to sign that form that says I won't say anything negative about Scientology, but I didn't get to that part on the routing form yet. What can I do to get out of that without them trying 20 million techniques to talk me into it? It seems to me that I have freedom of speech in this country, and they can't make me sign something that will tell me what NOT to say! Am I right??"

- I think you're right.

But, IANAL, and I've been 'out' for 26 years, so I really only know about the 'good old days.'

Did you sign papers before you went on course 4 years ago, and if so what did they say? Anything about not getting a refund if dissatisfied, or having to forfeit First Amendment rights if dropping out? If not, I doubt anything they want you to sign now, except for a cash receipt, is legal or legally enforceable. In fact, a 'gag' agreement as a condition of receiving a refund could be construed as extortion, the kind of thing state attorneys general tend to take an interest in when a business practises it.

Ah, but there's a rub. $cientology isn't a business. IT'S A R-E-L-I-G-I-O-N, thanks to the IRS (and The Devil!) Our tax dollars at work...

Well, lest I get into a fullblown rant here, let me suggest that someone else with more recent experience in/with Co$ might have more accurate knowledge of just what they can and can't do to withhold your $s or force you to comply with their insanities.

"I-an-I an yer side, garl!"

I-Loki, Don Carlo,

Great to see you back.

All those utter scams. Scientology, Avatar, Landmark Forum, EST, ($90 to a "channelor" to pass on a message to you from your great-great-aunt Tilley), and many of the new age ones whose list is so long it wouldn't fit here. Heh.

Alfred Einstein:
Well it looks pretty good that I'm gonna get my money back for the last unfinished course. You are not the first person to suggest getting ALL my money back, though. I would love to try that next, but that seems like a much harder thing to do. Has anyone ever pulled that one off?

I really don't want to bring a lawyer or anything into this, but when you think about how that money is essentially STOLEN from you, it gets you mad enough to do anything to get it back.
Does anyone else have any more advice on how to get around signing their 'gag' form? I believe that's one of the next steps I have to do.

Lovejones,

"Does anyone else have any more advice on how to get around signing their 'gag' form?"

I waited to reply in the hopes that someone more knowledgeable would reply before me.

But: DON'T SIGN IT! DON'T SIGN ANYTHING!

I don't think you have to get your money back.

It's not worth $500 to sell your freedom of speech down the drain. If you do sign it, they can (and will) go after you if you present a serious threat to them after that. And, unfortunately, they have a good chance of winning if you sign something.

However, please wait at least until somebody more knowledgeable than me replies.

P.S.: Did you ever see "Paper Moon"? My favorite scene from that movie was where a 7 year old Tatum O'Neill is in a restaurant screaming "I WANT MY MONEY!" She didn't sign anything... but she got it.

Lovejones,

Apparently there are no knowledgeable anti-$cn lawyers in the forum these days. You won't get a definitive answer, so here's my best advice: DON'T SIGN! Regardless of what they tell you, you don't have to. You aren't selling them anything. They are refunding your money.

If they persist in their pettifoggery, remind them that you are [I presume] a citizen of the United States of America, you uphold and defend the Constitution thereof, your First Amendment rights are NOT FOR SALE, and if they had any 'ethics' they would realise that. At this point, drop the 'lawyer line' on them, with a smile.

Whether it works or not, it will do wonders for your newfound sense of self determination.

Go get 'em, lass!

Isn't a gag agreement a main part of Keith Henson's problem?

Since you're not in court over this, no court will be issuing a gag order, so it's not valid, unless you sign it, and that makes it a contractual agreement. If they try to withhold YOUR money from you if you don't sign, it's legally called coercion or duress, and is illegal.

However, if they did deliver a complete course to you, in exchange for money, you may not get your money back. So you'd have to prove that their course was not what it was represented to be, or didn't deliver the "abilities" it promised. Of course, they will try to say that YOU didn't do your part (like if you flunk a college course). But if you have some sort of certificate, or if they accepted a statement from you that you had "wins," that indicates that you didn't flunk, and they were satisfied that you did the right thing, they can't say YOU screwed up.

Proceed with caution.

When I worked at the Denver Org, one of the public demanded a refund, got the runaround, and then just called the police.

She got her refund pretty quickly, within an hour, and the police waited until she got it! She insisted on a cashier's check, too. Cool!

She didn't have to sign a thing except a receipt.

She was another one of my heroes.

Galileo

Freebs,

Keith Henson is not ever likely to compromise with Co$ in any way.

It is Gerry Armstrong and Dennis Ehrlich who are 'gagged', although Armstrong, like Henson, is in Canadian exile. And fortunately for the sake of truth and human rights, Armstrong has ungagged himself. It is he who needs to proceed cautiously.

If I read an earlier statement correctly, Lovejones did not complete the course she started, it was four years ago, and she has not been involved with the org since that time. I think she has solid grounds to request a refund per LRH policy, and they should give it to her in a prompt and courteous manner, also per stated LRH policy. The only stipulation LRH attached to the policy was that the person receiving such a refund would not ever again be permitted to get Co$ 'services'. By my lights this is an excellent solution to the problem, is clear, and is what Lovejones should insist upon. The only thing she needs to sign is a receipt for her $500, should it be given to her in cash.

If they tell her differently, they are lying. If they attempt to coerce her signature on a piece of paper stating that she won't say bad things about them later, they are not acting ethically, may be close to committing a secular crime, and (IMHO) are definitely perpetrating an ecclesiastical abomination in the sight of the Eighth Dynamic Almighty, Amen.

As I see it, Lovejones, you can have your money back and keep your integrity intact as well.

Be cautious, yes (you know that) but proceed with confidence, too!

- Thank you, Galileo! Right on!

Merlin, thanks for straightening me out on Keith and Gerry.

I agree that she has "solid grounds" for requesting her refund. She should also point out that she will not ask for interest for that four years! Any reputable business will return your money right away, not four years later. Imagine if you bought a refrigerator, but couldn't have it for four years, even though you'd paid for it!