Hi Jana,

Great to see you posting. I always like what you have to say.

Michael

Alan,

Regarding all the things Hubbard and
his bidders did to destroy you as his competition, this is beyond a personal
issue, but historical, which in Hubbard's
and his faithful today's ignorance, they
don't still realize how their carrying
out Hubbard's unwittingly bad ramification
producing policies and viciousness recoil
and cement the intelligent world's accurate
opinion that Scientology is still an
intollerant isolation precipitating mind-set modern day cult.

You are living evidence, historical
evidence to the dispassionate scholars
(the future Roy Wallis's) who will look
for the evidence of how the Scientology
movement tried to eliminate their
competitors (the people you well know
the history of).

The stories of the destruction of
Hubbard's competitors, or success of the
competitors, needs reporting on more
fully. (Or people can tell me where I
should go find it.)

Again, not since 1977 with Roy Wallis,
and even he I don't think did all the
work that was there to be done, has
anyone done scholarly work on the
competitors to the official Scientology
movement.

Truly, some dispassionate FreeZoner
who thinks open-endedly, meaning keep
adding, keep interviewing, keep racking
up everyone's stories of the competitors
and original people who crossed paths and
influenced and were influenced back
positively or negatively, by Hubbard,
and someone who is academically motivated
to just collect all variations of the
evidence, and someone not stuck into
the animosities personally so as not
to have some inclination to destroy
the evidence, is what is needed.

Anyone around like that, who wants to
collect and collect, and just keep
collecting, and who knows what the
religious scholars need as far as raw
info, so if and when scholars get
around to the job of writing up the
history for the competitors to Hubbard's
current inescapably correctly labelled
new religious movement "cult" , then
those future experts scholars will have
the damn history, and be able to
expertly conclude things with
Scientology are following other
historical patterns, or not, or whatever.

That's what my personal desires and
hopes are in support of.

In my life, my 27 intimate life in
the Scn movement, I have been most
appreciative of outsiders' opinions,
the smart intelligent summarizing
conclusions of experts who were NOT
part of the Scientology history at
all.

I'm interested in ensuring those
people have the raw info with which
to write their conclusions about
whether the movement is changing, will
actually be able to change, or has
Scientology been pegged at self-destruct
mode no matter what the movement leaders
discard of Hubbard's worst of ideas.

If you have an opinion on whether you
think Scientology is pegged at
self-destruct mode no matter what the
movement leaders discard of Hubbard's
ideas, I would like your opinion, and
do you also think the harassment is
lessening across the boards against
their "enemies" (meaning you and other
competitors)?

Thanks. I hope others get your story out,
those who know and have heard your stories.

Serious minds will continue to dissect
all angles of Hubbard's influences and
operations, and outsiders will continue
to discount Hubbard's wake of history
revisionism that the Danny Sherman
types currently faithfully continue to
promote.

Your live incidents, live witness to
the crushing jealousy and irrational
policies of Hubbard, the actual people
beaten down, someone's gotta further
detail their stories, so as to counter
the Hubbard fascade.

Intelligent (and dumb) people alike
smell a rat with Hubbard's version of
history and his characterizations of
those persons who lived by LRH's side
through history.

I hope you unload the details, firsthand
details, so we have the raw data.

Thankyou!

Hi Jana,

I'm so pleased to see you......you especially - as we have travelled so many ups and downs together.

Jana and I go back more than 40 tumultuos years.

Yesterday I was so wishing you would be part of this - geez, and now here you are.

Love you,

Alan

Love only really goes so far, doesn't it Alan?

Why don't you clarify to those here how much it
will set them back to engage in your own little
Fiefdom?

Not to disparage the excellent work you have done,
providing an alternative, but if "helping the able become more able" is an Axiom, we might as well just leave %999999999 percent of mankind in the dust.

Alan, I have been lurking here for many years. I only 'came out' because you posted. You are my fav!

jana

Jana....Great to have you posting, too!
What a fun crowd!!!

Alan....yup, I *am* Having the time of my life! It's been one wild ride, and what a delightful karmic circle to have Tommy boy, their Golden boy, end up opening up the eyes for the vast majority of the world, most importantly, the media! Too too "Fitting Justice", eh?

Do call............I'd love to chat!

Best to you both, and the gang here

Tory/Magoo~~
PS: Isn't that kewl about 2 more "OT's" finally free? I just love hearing the voices of freed beings. It's quite different than when "in",
trapped at the top, hoping and praying someday this "EP" would arrive.

Pit,

Much more than you can afford.

My processors can earn between $50,000 to a $100,000 a year. After all my public demand the best processors.

My prices are somewhere between 1/4 to 1/3 of scio prices and most of it can be co-processed for a fraction of that.

Alan

Pit, you need to let this man have a voice here. When he starts selling his wares then that opens up debate on advertising product & pricing.
And maybe he just enjoys a friendly dialogue.

The wizard of Oz flying monkeys will be summoned eventually
to ruin his thread(s). Can we just enoy a breath of fresh air for now? ..please...

(Message edited by umike on July 09, 2005)

Thanks Umike, much appreciated.

Lets do some purpose clearing on the big picture.

Was there really a hidden intent behind every purpose of LRH?

Or was the CofS taken over by the inmates?

What is the purpose of scientology?

To clear the planet.

Pretty good worthwhile purpose.

What is the purpose of an Org?

To see that auditing and training take place. (Pretty benign purpose.)

What is the purpose of the Sea Org?

To put ethics in on the planet.

Great purpose, anyone would subscribe to that, except it became to dominate and enslave scientologists.

What is the purpose of the GO and now OSA?

To make a safe enviroment and handle those outsiders who are against auditing and training taking place.

Again a worthy purpose...except it was used to Fair Game, shut up and destroy upset scio's.

What is the purpose of CMO?

I'm guessing on this one: To enslave everyone by control freakdoming them. To use every means possible to keep their crimes and scio crimes hidden.

The end product after some 55 years in not a pretty picture.

What was Hubbard's original purpose?

In the "affirmations" or sometimes called "the admissions":

"All men will grovel at my feet and not know why"

So, if that came prior, then all the supposedly worthwhile purposes were just window dressing. Just "suitable guises" Just "shore stories", just "acceptable truth"

I think most if not all of the advance was from real good hearted and idealistic capable people buying into the high ideals of the stated goals and running with them.

That would explain the up and down nature of the whole excercise, and why Hubbard could not bear to have others recognized for their work.

Hi Mike,

I'm afraid you are right.

The big picture stats.

Supposedly 8,000,000 people, but most of us know it is around 35,000 to 50,000 on-line actives....probably much less than that.

But over the 55 years there have been at a rough guess 2 to 3 million people taken scio services.

Most left disgruntled.....add this to all the media outlets that were forced to shut up plus other groups that have been attacked and you can easily observe that the vast majority of people are on the critics side.

When DM destroyed the Mission network he in effect began the destruction of scientology...as it was the mission network and the field auditors that cleaned up the upsets in the field....also the mission network supplied roughly 4,000 fully hatted experienced scio's to the upper orgs....now the Orgs and SO are filled with untrained, unhatted inexperienced people....the disaster will only keep getting worse.

That should have read: 4,000 fully hatted experienced scio's to the upper orgs per year.

Umike, Alan, and others participating in this dialogue: Should any "flying monkeys from Oz" (and I don't mean Australia!) show up to ruin this thread, you are invited to reconvene in OCMB's no-fly zone: Opinions & Debate - MODERATED.