New York org

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dajama
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Location: New York, NY

Doctoral Thesis

Post by dajama » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:11 pm

I'm not terribly sure what a doctoral thesis is myself. I know that my cousin is a doctor of osteopathic medicine. I'm even a little cloudy on what THAT means, but apparently LOTS of doctors out there have a DO rather than an MD. They are both doctors in the traditional sense meaning that they work in hospitals (as surgeons or in emergency medicine or whatever) and in private practices and prescribe meds (but not to me, apparently. Bummer). Anyway, from what I gather, one must write a series of papers while in medical school including a thesis. Now, it's been a while since I discussed this with my cousin, but the brother of the woman he married is a Scientologist and won't have anything to do with her family. Didn't even go to his only sister's wedding for Christ's sake! This, among other oddities, prompted my cousin to write his thesis (or some other highly important research paper) on Scientology. For a while there, it's all he could talk about and I became morbidly fascinated with the subject. To date, I’ve done one hell of a lot of research and I simply MUST experience the lunacy first-hand. Anyway, I will try to get some more information on what a doctoral thesis is and get back to you on that. :newbie:
I've seen the needle and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone
But every junkie's like a setting sun

dajama
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Location: New York, NY

I love this

Post by dajama » Fri Aug 12, 2005 11:17 pm

Can anyone tell me anything about Scientology in NYC? Is there anything, other than that which I already know, that I should be prepared for?

Another thing - what is a Celebrity Center? Do you have to be a celebrity to get in the doors of one of those? What goes on in there that doesn't go on in a traditional Scientology joint?

:kneesucker:
I've seen the needle and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone
But every junkie's like a setting sun

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James
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Post by James » Sat Aug 13, 2005 12:56 am

Well, a celebrity centre is supposed to deal with opinion leaders in art business and so on. They would get special attention and a kind of privileged treatment (in theory...).

The regular dish-washer would be sent to a normal Org.

LRH understood quite well that he would need to attract the key people. The kind of: " If Travolta is doing it, it must be kind of OK since he is famous and seems to know what he's doing." thinking....

James

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Sat Aug 13, 2005 2:42 am

Dajama, the traditional college route in the US is that after you graduate from High School, you go to a University of private college and get a 4 year education called a Bachelors Degree. You can get a specialized Bachelors degree, such as in science or business or pre-med or journalism, etc, but often american kids get a bachelors in "Liberal Arts".

Once you finish that, your next step depends on what you majored in. A Masters Degree is next for most students who choose to continue to continue their education, and usually takes 2 years, and usually involves research and experience in ones chosen feild.

A Doctorate or PhD (Doctor of Philosophy in your chosen specialty) follows your Masters Degree. A Doctorate degree can take anywhere from one year to as long as it takes. The student is required to research and write and usually publish his own original theories and research, and to show proficiency in his subject. This is called the Doctoral Thesis, and must be approved by a Board of experts.

Doctorate Degrees are highly regarded in society and in academic circles, and represent any where from 7 to 10 or more years of advanced education.

That is one reason College flunk outs like L. Ron Hubbard and High School dropouts like David Miscavage are not taken seriously.

Hubbards claims to have a Doctorate are completely false, just like his claims to have been a War Hero and to have gotten 2 Purple Hearts in battle are completely false.

Miscavage has not even completed his own cults "training", and has NO education past the 9th grade.


A Celebrity Centre, in my experience, is a more country clublish org for people who have given more money or are politically connected, famous in some way, or related to somebody important in some way.The atmosphere is more relaxed, the ambience more upstat, the staff better schmoozers. Amenities like free valet parking, wine and cheese parties, special personal handlers (like Jessica Feschback being assigned as Katies Holmes new best friend) and extra attention like silly awards and your picture in the scientology magazines are all designed to kiss your ass and make you feel important.

Like all of scientologys awards, certifications, degrees, etc, they are all PR and absolutely worthless in the real world.

Ladybird

dajama
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Location: New York, NY

Personal Handler?

Post by dajama » Sat Aug 13, 2005 5:05 am

Thanks, Ladybird. I'm with you most of the way regarding your education dissertation(!). I have a BA in psychology from West Virginia University and will begin pursuing my MBA in the fall.

You touched on something that I'm having a hard time understanding. Who, exactly, is this Scientology person travelling with Katie Holmes? What is her role? Does her presence confirm Katie is a Scientologist? What is she (Katie) being put through right now, near as you can tell? Does she have to convert to Scientology as a prerequisit to dating Tom Cruise? Is it true that celebrities the stature of Cruise and Travolta are never exposed to the parts of Scientology that most people find difficult to swallow? What other differences are there between the Scientology that Cruise and Travolta practice and the Scientology practiced by the unwashed masses? I heard that Travolta believes that he can heal people by laying his hands on them. How can he really believe that unless some Scientologists set him up with somebody to "cure" that never really needed any curing? Would that kind of thing happen? Anybody??? Can you help me to understand these things?

:offtopic:
I've seen the needle and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone
But every junkie's like a setting sun

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programmer_guy
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Post by programmer_guy » Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:33 am

The Scientology person that is accompanying Katie is, basically, her baby-sitter (treating her like a baby). They are trying to make sure that nothing goes astray. AND... they are trying to "protect" her from any anti-Scientology influence.

We will see just how long Katie will put up with this before she says "enough is enough". According to some reporters, Katie has been known to dump guys before (this is hearsay).

kate
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Experiencing Scn for Yourself

Post by kate » Sat Aug 13, 2005 3:06 pm

Dahama,

Forgive an old lady who tends to be somewhat suspicious of inconsistencies...

Your earlier posts appear to be "clueless" as to the nature of a "doctoral thesis." Yet, you say you have a B.A. from WVU in psychology, which means you know full well what a doctoral thesis is and you used the word "dissertation" appropriately.

With your education, I am sure you read your cousin's thesis, can you tell us about it?

My daughter is currently at WVU...as is her husband...I know it is a very large school, but perhaps you have met?

Where are you going for your MBA?
P.S.--It is my humble opinion that "experiencing Scn for yourself" is foolish...but to each his own.

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Sat Aug 13, 2005 6:36 pm

Dajama, I have to agree with Kate that perhaps you are being a bit disingenious.

So what's up? Do you want to interview someone with a few decades of experience in the cult? Call those who post their names, numbers and addresses on the boards.

Or "PM" me, I might call you if you leave your number.

Post your questions, or google your questions, you will find that many ex scientologists tell the same tales in court affidavidavits, testimony and other writings, and that the truth about scientology does not change despite the difference in locations and years.

L.Ron Hubbard wrote what he wrote, and said what he said and most of it can be researched and found to be either plagiarized or out right lies. David Miscavage saw that LRH found a way to fool enough people enough of the time to make some serious money.

I would welcome and assist an educated person doing a Doctoral Thesis on how exactly this con artist was able to accomplish what he accomplished.

I wish you the best in your studies.

Ladybird

dajama
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Location: New York, NY

To be quite honest

Post by dajama » Sun Aug 14, 2005 12:39 am

Guys,

I never claimed that I was unintelligent. I am, however, smart enough to know not to expound upon a subject with which I'm not entirely familiar (i.e. a doctoral thesis & Scientology). The fact of the matter is that I am not privy to the content of my cousin's thesis nor am I entirely sure what, exactly, a doctoral thesis is comprised of. I hope one day to find out as I am writing mine, but that's too far off to even consider right now. I am, however, fascinated with Scientology as a concept. It amazes me that people of obvious intelligence, such as yourselves, can find themselves immersed in such a potentially dangerous and debilitating set of circumstances. I am driven by a need to understand it and by a need to do everything I can to see to it that nobody I come into contact with find themselves involved with it.

That's a little bit about me and what motivates me. I was brought up in chaos and pain. Loss and hurt. Purposeful abuse. I find myself motivated to help those people (that want my help) to never have to go through anything remotely resembling that which I went through. I've never known or been a Scientologist, but I have heard and seen what it can do to good people and I don't like it a bit.
I've seen the needle and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone
But every junkie's like a setting sun

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programmer_guy
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Post by programmer_guy » Sun Aug 14, 2005 1:56 am

dajama,

There is a lot of critical info about Scientology on this website. And, I believe that Andreas is always interested in adding more when it is available.

Your cousin's doctoral thesis would definitely be of interest for me (and probably most everyone that posts here). Would you be willing to contact your cousin to see if we could get access to the content of his thesis on this subject?

Best regards

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:09 am

Dajama, I like Neil Young too. I really like Bob Dylan, especially I like his new stuff as much as the original, guess it's all about where your heart is at.

Sadly, IMO, this board is going through a stage where those who are not intelligent enough to know what they don't know are becoming vociferous. Hopefully it is the swan song of scienologys sinking ship.

I would love to talk to you or your cousin about scientology.

Ask me anything, if I don't know I know somebody who does.

Ladybird (Tammy)

kate
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Post by kate » Mon Aug 15, 2005 6:20 pm

Dajama,

I had to write a thesis for my Bachelor's degree, I don't think a doctoral thesis is all that different, perhaps so. I, too, would be very interested in your cousin's thesis...any information about Scientology would interest this board.

How could relatively intelligent people become involved in something like Scientology? That's a good question, one which we ask ourselves from time to time....I thought I was intelligent, but I was young, cocky, impulsive, rebellious, and willing to believe in a dream. The real truth about Zenu and all that jazz was kept from me because I never made it to that level, but what if I had? Would I have believed it? Would I have succumbed to the brainwashing so much that I could have been fed such a wild tale? Probably. So how did I, and others get that way?

Let us know what you find out.

dajama
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:42 am
Location: New York, NY

Meep

Post by dajama » Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:58 am

Is there a chat room that we can meet in? All of us, I mean. :twisted: :?:
I've seen the needle and the damage done
A little part of it in everyone
But every junkie's like a setting sun

suzicue
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 8:47 pm

Post by suzicue » Wed Aug 24, 2005 9:11 pm

Changing the subject, but still under the topic "New York Org":

Last Friday evening, Aug. 19, 2005, I stood across from the New York
org on 46th St. and counted the number of bodies that walked out
of the front door (the only way out) between 10:00 p.m. and 10:30 p.m.

I picked that time period because it would give an indication of how
active the org is currently. Generally, graduation is held on Fridays in the
academy, starting at 9:30 p.m. and going to 10:00 or a bit past.
This is for NYF. There is an effort on the part of the staff to get public
there for that. The Friday evening course slot is usually one of the
better attended ones.

I counted 51 people. Some of these (maybe 6 or 7) were obviously
staff, as they had on dark slacks, white shirts and dark ties (no one
dresses like that these days -- or hardly anyone). The rest were
either students from the technical division (div 4), students from
the public divisions (one of the div 6s), people being audited in either
Tech or Div 6, and staff (dressed more normally).

I am just posting this for info and am interested in others' comments.

I figured that most of the people would be out by 10:30 p.m. It is
possible that some staff were made to stay late for some reason (as I
saw some of them go back into the building).

Is it true that NYF was declared to be St. Hill size? Does the number
of people I counted seem possible for a St. Hill sized org?

cerridwen
Posts: 96
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Post by cerridwen » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:22 am

Thanks Suzicue!

This is really excellent information.

51 people leaving on a Friday night tells me that NY org is doing OK
but certainly is not Saint Hill size.

Great Work!

Cerridwen

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