ORG at Tower Hill Station

ape
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ORG at Tower Hill Station

Post by ape » Sat Oct 01, 2005 12:58 pm

Hi All -

I've just been through Tower Hill Station (near the Tower of London). The Org are there with 'stress tests' on trestle tables, just like outside the TCR shop.

(I interrupted them chatting with some asian people who seemed very interested in what I had to say and took the xenu.net address.)

According to the ice-cream salesman, they have been there 'all the time' for the last two months. Strange, as I go past twice a day. They must be there in the middle of the day only. My point: the ice-cream salesman has a license from Tower Hamlets Council (the Tube staff confirmed they were responsible). Apparently the Tower of London actually owns the land.

We should get on to them and ask whether theyare licensed. If they are, we should complain. I am very intrigued by the quote of Ken Livingstone regarding Trafalgar Square in this regard that i found somewhere on this site (from 'Girlfriend'.):

"I have refused permission for the Church of Scientology to use Trafalgar Square to promote their so-called 'anti-drugs' campaign because it is a medically unproven policy which I am advised could be dangerous.

"The square will be used for many purposes whilst I am Mayor, including many political demonstrations and rallies which I will disagree with. However, it would not be responsible for me to allow it to be used to advertise a spurious medical programme which many drugs professionals are concerned about.'

He added: "Nothing about the activities of this group leads me to believe that this is anything other than a cynical method of promoting the Scientology creed. I would urge Londoners not to be duped by their expensive campaigning."

Ken's influence would be very important (what is the source of this quote?). Although not as definitive in the case of the square, for which he has special responsibility under the GLA Act.

- would like to hear the views of anti-cos activists.

- best wishes to you all

Ape.

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Sat Oct 01, 2005 3:29 pm

I really wonder how scientologists get away with putting public people on an E-Meter for a fake "Stress Test" when it cleary states on every E-meter and in many of their books the following disclaimer:
HUBBARD ELECTROMETER MANUFACTURING

By itself, this meter does nothing. It is solely for the guide of
Ministers of the Church in Confessionals and pastoral counselling. The
Electrometer is not medically or scientifically capable of improving the
health or bodily function of anyone and is for religious use by students
and Ministers of the Church of Scientology only. HUBBARD, E-METER and
SCIENTOLOGY are trademarks and service marks owned by RTC and used with its
permission.
Next time you see a VM ask to turn over the emeter to make sure this legally required disclaimer is there. Ask if they tell unsuspecting people that this stress test is really "Pastoral Counseling".

See also:

Secrets of Scientology: The E-Meter http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/

ape
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London Borough of Tower Hamlets

Post by ape » Sat Oct 01, 2005 4:30 pm

i think this is the relevant department of the council:

http://www.towerhamlets.gov.uk/data/bus ... rading.cfm

only there mon-fri of course.

the CO$ were definitely 'trading'. i saw the guy take money.

i imagine the GLA/ Mayor and the Tower will also be interested - this was all occuring to one side of the main pedestrian thoroughfare to the Tower - one of London's most important tourist attractions.

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antiscn
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Post by antiscn » Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:03 pm

this is something i had been wondering about too.in brighton the 'stress tests' are out near the front of their org.i don't know whether they own this piece of the pavement but i had been thinking of asking the council whether their activities are legal.they are of course trading,selling dianetics books to the unsuspecting public.i will definetely enquire and let you all know what i foind out..unless anybody here already knows?

ape
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Frredom of Speech vs Street Trading

Post by ape » Sat Oct 01, 2005 5:20 pm

I certainly wouldn't want to limit anyone's freedom of speech.

Such limitations would likely be applied to, eg, people protesting against oppressive regimes. Or against religious cults.

Today I saw Falun Gong protesters taking up lots pavement space with chanting & trestle tables. If the Chinese embassy complained on 'obstructing the highway'-type grounds, what would we think?.

HOWEVER: there are legal limitations on what you can do on footways.

Bars in London have often got into trouble for putting tables outside. They then complain that the Government wants to encourage tourism and a 'cafe culture'. So there are rules about this. The CO$ at TCR in London takes up maybe 1/4 of the footway's width? Probably this is 'reasonable'. (Coffee bars nearby use more). Perhaps they have licenses which the CO$ may or may not have. We should find out.

A totally different thing is street trading. That's carrying out a business on the street. Everyone who does it needs a license. You even need it to collect for charity. So CO$ operations next to their shop (where the actual transaction is presumably carried out) are probably different from the one near Tower Hill.

I suggest a letter to Tower Hamlets to protest (either that they are trading without a license or that they were granted a license); cc'd to the Tube (TfL); Tower of London; and the Mayor (GLA).

forkboy
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Post by forkboy » Tue Oct 04, 2005 11:48 am

I'll have a little peek today during my lunch break...

forkboy
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Post by forkboy » Tue Oct 04, 2005 1:03 pm

Well, didn't see anything..

Though I have a suspicion that they might have been at this location because of its proximity to London Met University..

Also, the London Org itself is still pretty dead, though there was actually a light on for once this morning..

ape
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Post by ape » Tue Oct 04, 2005 4:56 pm

thanks forkboy.

i've only seen them at Tower Hill once. but the ice-cream man said they had been there 'all the time for the last two months'.

they were next to the wall to one side of the big black tourist information thing that looks like a boulder, on the walkway between Tower Hill and Tower Gateway.

i think it's an excellent thoroughfare for them.. lots of tourists going to the tower and the nexus of 3 stations (also Fenchurch Street).

forkboy
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Post by forkboy » Tue Oct 04, 2005 7:27 pm

No worries..

I'll keep tabs on it.. its on my lunch time constitutional route as such.. :wink:

Don Carlo
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Post by Don Carlo » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:30 pm

Ladybird, thanks for printing out the disclaimer about the e-meter being a religious device. If someone sees CoS employees pushing stress tests in, say, a mall, they could bring a copy of this disclaimer to the mall manager. Then the manager could read it carefully and decide (we hope) not to allow ANY religion to prosyletize, because other religions would want equal treatment.

The manager could ask the CoS employees to turn over the e-meter to confirm the "religious" nature that CoS tries to hide when it's inconvenient.

Best of all, if CoS took the label off to appear non-religious, then critics in the U.S. could alert the Food and Drug Administration , ideally to charge them with practicing medicine or psychotherapy without a license. Are there similar laws in the U.K.? If so, who would be the regulatory group?

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:56 am

It might also be a good idea to ask if the poor deluded adherent sitting there offering "stress tests" is in fact a "Minister". Ask to see his credentials. Ask if he has passed the new GAT e-meter course.

I hear the new emeter course is a bear, takes months to complete. Plus, you have to do all the prerequisites before you can even take the e-meter course.

It would be my educated guess that most of the people sent out to sit on street corners or in parking lots are new recruits or Div 6 (Public Division)staff or public VMs (Volunteer Ministers, a few hours of Div 6 training) who have no tech training at all.

What are they doing using e-meters that are only supposed to be used by Ministers for Pastoral counseling per the FDA ruling?

Ladybird

ape
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UK Equivalent of the FDA

Post by ape » Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:56 pm

Don Carlo -

I think your question about the Uk equivalent of the FDA is an excellent one and of vital importance.

In truth, I don't think there is a precise equivalent. NICE perform a similar role, but only advises on Clinical Excellence in the NHS. My impression is that any related organisation is wary of mentioning the CO$.

I vaguely remember writing to the Royal Psychiatric Association or similar to ask their views, but they didn't get back. I find it very suprising that such organisations (also the Psychologists) do print official policies on the Org and its claims (both positive and negative) but I've searched and not found any.

The GMC licenses 'proper doctors'

http://www.gmc-uk.org/register/default.htm

but there only dealings with CO$ apeear to be, worringly, connetetd with their negative charges:

http://www.gmc-uk.org/global_sections/s ... ameset.htm


I'm not sure there's anyone validating claims to be eg 'a shamanic healer' or 'chinese medicine' for that matter. And I'm not sure how there could or should be. But we should definitely find out.

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antiscn
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Post by antiscn » Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:46 am

this seems like a relevant place to post this..
i emailed the local council regarding the 'stress test' and sales of 'dianetics',
this was their reply.
Thank you for you e-mail regarding the stress test and sales of the
Dianetics book.

They are not licensed by the council for either of these activities.

I do not know who owns the land on which they operate but if it is part of
the highway then The selling of articles on the street does usually require
a licence and I will arrange for this matter to be investigated.

The stress test would not require a licence.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
i intend to find out more specifically about the e-meter and it's legal usage.

RolandRB
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Post by RolandRB » Sun Apr 30, 2006 6:41 am

Somebody needs to find out from the council if they have a permit to sell their wares on the street in the manner that they are. If they do not then take digital photos of them and make notes of the date and time for each photo while they are using the streets to peddle their evil wares and then send that to the council. This must be stopped, if possible.

Somebody mentioned tables outside shop fronts. In almost all cases, a section of the pavement closest to the shop is land owned by the shop itself. This comes from the old days when people were reluctant to go into shops to purchase but instead browsed goods and purchased from the outside. If you check on pavements in front of the bigger stores you will sometimes see brass triangles nailed to the pavement. This marks their territory. So if you see things on the pavement outside an org then it is very likely that they have a right to use that space as it is their land.

ape
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more on the Org at Tower Hill

Post by ape » Mon May 08, 2006 5:07 pm

I still go past Tower Hill very frequently and at all times and days of the week.

I've not seen them there since I out this post up originally.

I believe that the Council did in fact tell them to stop (I had a conversation with someone there who said she would act).

The place they have trestles outside that I know of is outside the Org on Tottenham Court Road. As you say, this is likely to more difficult to challenge.

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