Australia, Melbourne

Anonymous

Australia, Melbourne

Post by Anonymous » Fri Mar 10, 2000 4:40 pm

Originally posted: 06:10 06/01-2000
Name/Nick: memory
Contact info: esperance_boy@yahoo.com
I live in Melbourne Australia. Critical thinking towards Scientology is almost unheard of. We need to organise some non-violent resistance to the Co$ presence here. There must be other voices here too?

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Fri Mar 10, 2000 4:41 pm

Originally posted: 06:41 06/01-2000
Name/Nick: memory
Contact info: esperance_boy@yahoo.com
im not sure who the end recipients of this will be. its so bloody hard to know who to trust. I just found out today that good boy mike rinder from the osa grew up in my home town??? there you go!! I am 19yo. I live in Melbourne and although I am not a scientologist I know more about scn, lrh and org structure than most longtime scientologists. Very few people here actually know about scn; the presence has become somewhat diminished but the same guy in the same leather jacket persists on handing out oca's on swanston st on an average of 4 days a week. The key to getting inside the orgs without getting into scientology is telling them what they want to hear. "I've just turned 18 and was wondering what my purpose in life is?" is usually a good one. That line alone got me invited to the Dianetics anniversary presentation in 1997 and enabled me to waltz in and out of the Melb org without having the reg jump down my throat. I have used the same line to get inside tours of AOSHANZo and the class 5 on castlereagh. (if you look closely at the foto of aoshanzo in What is Scientology you can see that the flags are not really mounted but are being held up by members of the SO. Poor buggers). I have been inside adelaide org, the dingy canberra org on the second floor, and when visiting family in the US and Canda in Sept last year, I was lucky ( i think?) to see the showcase LRH life exhibition. Hollywood boulevard is crawling with SO and their associates. You really have not seen scientology in action until you see america. front groups galore. btw there are passages underneath the road connecting the CCHR, pac base and the SO headquarters (not sure what it is called). didnt get to flag but that can wait for another day. if you go into the melb org, ignore helen bassett (the fat motherly one) she's harmless, watch Rob Meister (tall, 25ish, brown hair) and a short blond staffer; don't know her name but she's a f...ing leech not to be messed with. keep the fight alive please. any pickets pls contact me!

theta_force

Post by theta_force » Mon Aug 07, 2000 6:52 pm

Non violent resistance. When I tear your balls off with pliers?

Theta force

Post by Theta force » Mon Aug 07, 2000 6:53 pm

NB we are anti violence.

All thanks to Mankings Greatest Friend.

sciborg

Post by sciborg » Thu Aug 10, 2000 10:14 am

Looks like Theta_force overstepped the mark there.
What kind church uses language like that, "balls off with pliers"? Scary!
Probably even made Theta's supervisor squirm a little.......Theta was much nicer just 1 minute later.

Biscuit.

Post by Biscuit. » Sat May 12, 2001 2:11 pm

Just a quick one.

I'm not a scieno, but stumbled across Bare-Faced Messiah a few years back in a 2nd hand bookstore. Years and years earlier I had read Dark Night of the Moonies. I found OC while surfing around one night and have been lurking around ever since.

I agree that this cult has a lot to answer for.

I'm also in Melbourne, and would love to be able to help out where I can. Just not sure where to begin. As I've got a few of my own skeletons, the last thing I want is for OSA to get hold of them; therefore anonymity is something I want to retain.

As for Theta-Force... obviously he's never heard of a spell-check. *G* LRon roolz?

Old Timer

Post by Old Timer » Sun May 13, 2001 1:40 am

I'm from Melbourne also. This is going to be difficult for us as we don't know who to trust. For all I know you are Melbourne DSA!!
Melbourne used to be the largest Org on the planet in the 60's so there must be an awful lot of silently angry people out there in this lovely city of ours. The question is how do we get over the hurdle of who is who and then what do we do about it.
Anyone else from Melbourne?
Any suggestions?

Biscuit

Post by Biscuit » Sun May 13, 2001 7:36 am

I guess we need to take it slow to start with, Old Timer. Need to build up a small network. Starting with us few, I guess.

Every now and then I encourage my friends to have a look at this site, and check out what's happening, but that is just small stuff. I don't know what your ideas are on mailouts or that sort of thing. Perhaps emailing Melbourne members with a bit of critical thinking?

I'm new at this sort of stuff, but if we don't start now, then when do we?

Old Timer

Post by Old Timer » Mon May 14, 2001 9:52 am

Just going to do a bit of a check on you Biscuit.
Tell me in as many details as you can the story of xenu, what NOTs are all about i.e what is audited and what is the "clear" cognition.
That aught to sort the Clams from the Catfish!
Bye for now.
Old Timer

Biscuit.

Post by Biscuit. » Tue May 15, 2001 2:44 pm

*LOL* As far as I can recall, Xenu was a construction of the Evil Overlord Hubbard in order to put poor unsuspecting out of their misery by divesting them of their worldly goods.

On a serious note, Xenu was the one who apparently enslaved all our spirits some 75million years ago and locked us away in a volcano in Hawaii. I cannot take seriously anyone who spells Teegeeack as a planet name and expects to be believed. I was involved with a group of so-called 'Breatharians' for a little while, but I didn't consider them a cult. They didn't operate as one; at least with me. Mind you, they had a few similar theories about past lives and injuries/damages carrying over into future lives.

As regards auditing, well, you can keep that e-meter away from me. I've had my experiences with brainwashing and manipulation, so I like to keep well away from that. Hence an almost pathological hatred of scn. And the more I read here, the more it gets to me. There comes a time when you have to take a stand and be responsibility.

Spiritually? I am a converted catholic (to, not from), and the smartest thing Father Tom ever said to me was 'Your religion is your relationship with your God'. He also pointed out the two most important things that Jesus ever said... 'Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you', and 'Love the Lord thy God as thyself.' I don't know about you, but Co$ does not treat you the way they would like to be treated. Fair gaming? Yeah, right. And let's see David Miscavige on rpf. (For some reason, I always think of Miscavige as miscarriage. I wonder what Freud would say).

Not sure if that's what you want to see, but it's all I can come up with off the top of my head. :) It's way past my bedtime, and the cat is far too quiet.

Enjoy.

Shahate Illuminatus

Post by Shahate Illuminatus » Sun Jul 22, 2001 4:10 am

I'm another Melbourne with an interest in Co$ (and all other cults...I'm an anthropologist), I've been into their main org on Russel St. and had a tour of the auditing rooms, purification rundown (they have a running track!), etc.

I remember going in there and impressing them all because I got above 145 (I won't say exact amount because they might know who I am ;)) on the IQ test and my girlfriend got everything above +70 on their personality test....they LOVED our asses :) plus we were only 19!

Anyway, I've found that the best form of protest is to place doubt in the minds of the people who work there.....If you protest outside, it only makes them stronger. I understand that it gets the publics attention that way, which is good, but if you want to help the people *inside* then you have to go one on one with them......I remember talking to one girl their who had been on staff for about 6 months, I overheard a conversation she was having with someone higher, asking her about debt and all that....she was $8000 in debt! most of that because of the purification rundown, and she was ONLY A SMOKER (seriously, how many SCIENOS DO YOU SEE SMOKING IN THAT LITTLE DOORWAY ON THE SIDE OF THE ORG!!!!! ADVANCED TECH MY ASS!)!!!!

I used to live just down the alleyway next to the org in an apartment and so I spent quite a bit of time there because these things interest me (I've spent lots of time with the Hare Krishnas, Sufis, Thelemites, there is a MASSIVE "cult" underground here in Melbourne....I've even found some funky tantric sex cults if anybodies interested ;) ;) :)) In all of my studies, scientologists are the most vague and off with the fairies.....

I would love to study the Melbourne org in more detail, structure, people, etc. etc. and would appreciate any info I can get :) It is not to harm the church or its members (I do believe in freedom of religion after all.....Catholicism has some pretty bad brainwashing techniques as well you know) but just to fuel my passion for anthropology and the study of sects and religions.

One last note: does anybody else find it disturbing that they often have COMPLETELY DILATED pupils under those bright fluro lights?!?

Also, who is the older man that works there (beard, looks about 50).....he was one who tried to make the soft sell, they put him onto me to "handle" me (they actually said "I think you should handle this one") after they got back my IQ test results.....he seemed like an incredibly nice guy until he tried to sell me some book on world religions (anyone else seen that one, he said they "don't sell many of these at all", trying to make me buy it because it is rare and only kept out back) which wasn't written by LRH.....

Sorry for the long and basically useless post :) but I would like to keep in contact with all Melbournites....please e-mail me.

don_carlo
Posts: 1592
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:38 pm

Post by don_carlo » Sun Jul 22, 2001 2:27 pm

Shatate,
I live in the USA, so I can't picket with you, but I do have some ideas for "cult culture" studies.

1. Why, if engrams and body thetans cause all ills, and the cure is auditing and Purification Rundown with niacin, are many Scientologists taking new herbal concoctions that L. Ron never heard of. Isn't that "out-tech?"

2. What is the point of the IQ test? If auditing works for everyone, why bother? Do they have a different exploitation rundown (I mean treatment ;) ) for smart people?

Half the people in the world should get under 100 (below average) on the IQ test, right? So a large percent of people coming in the Org door should also score under 100. Does the Org tell them, "you are below average." Or would that insult them and drive them away?

3. Do they still divide non-Scientologists into the following categories?
wog
raw meat
PTS (Potential Trouble Source)
SP (Suppressive Person).

I am curious because every industry has a name for its customers. Here are examples:
Politicians - taxpayers
Manufacturers and stores - customers
Hotels and inns - guests
Newspapers - readers
Sports - fans
Law firms - clients
Utilities - rate-payers
Doctors - patients
TV - viewers
and so on.

Looking at this list, one is struck by how inoffensive the terms are.

In the marketing business in the US that I know something about, the language is a little more arch. Anybody not yet a customer, but interested, is a "prospect." Any business not yet a customer and unaware or not yet interested is a "suspect," which is used mostly for fun because it rhymes with "prospect." The marketing people in the "suspect" company also know and use this term for THEIR not-yet-interested prospects. For more official publication the word "suspect" would be replaced with "candidate."

The questions for Scientology on this topic are:
(a) Does the Org use any other term USUALLY besides "raw meat" for new customers?
(b) My guess is that a newcomer into Scientology first learns the terms "SP" and "wog." "PTS" is a little more technical, so it may be learned at any time. I assume that the newcomer doesn't learn the term "raw meat" until he or she has bonded with the cult enough not to be offended. Is this true?

Shahate Illuminatus

Post by Shahate Illuminatus » Sun Jul 22, 2001 4:40 pm

Thanks for replying Don.... :)

you bring up some interesting points, and I would like to try and address them as well as I can with the second hand knowledge of Co$ that I have...

1)It would seem that that should be the case, nobody has the first hand knowledge of the truths of the universe that LRH has right ;) But then, I know that the world religions course that is offered by scientology is written by somebody other than LRH (officially, I'm sure alot of the courses were not written by him)....so maybe you could justify it by looking for the "out-tech" side effects, if you find none....it must be okay.

2)The IQ test makes perfect sense.....you definately handle a less intelligent person differently to a highly intelligent one.......You also have to assign people of relative IQ to "handle" them. That's what happened to me, I went in and asked about Co$ naively. When I mentioned that I was an anthropology student I was assigned a clam that had taken the religion course.....when I did the IQ test, I was AGAIN reassigned to the older, 'wiser', clam.

3)I have no idea, and I don't think that any outsider is going to find that one out by themselves ;) PTS and SP would be used, they are official terminology and are in the dictionary ;)

I was thinking though....wouldn't the word 'wog' be very offensive to scientologists who are from particular ethnic backgrounds?

don_carlo
Posts: 1592
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:38 pm

Post by don_carlo » Sun Jul 22, 2001 5:35 pm

About IQ - I just wonder if they outright tell the IQ score to a person who scored lower than 100. Maybe they just say "you did fine on the IQ test, let me introduce you to Bubba." Part of the hook is that the mark is joining an elite (and face it, weren't you flattered, Shahate, that they were impressed by your high-IQ scores?). Wouldn't it break the spell for Scientology to tell the low-scoring mark "You're below normal intelligence but we can help you with that?"

Does anybody know how this is handled?

I agree that an educated, widely read and high-IQ person needs different treatment from Scientology. But I'm trying to imagine a church or synagogue using this approach. My own church has a welcoming table with, usually, a middle-aged or older volunteer. Many of the volunteers are intelligent but they don't have to be. They just have to be friendly and familiar with the church (what time services are, who's in charge of religious education, etc.). There is certainly no muzzle on the welcoming person about what she's authorized to talk about.

The word "wog" just isn't commonly used in America. I've heard (but have never used) the usual bigoted words in a variety of settings and places in America, and I have NEVER heard the word "wog" except by Scientologists or critics of Scientology. I understand "wog" is a more common word in Australia with different shades of meaning and use, and that some find it insulting.

"Wog" is just one of those dated twentieth century words that L. Ron used and that Scientology can't let go of. I was hoping you could get into a conversation with an active Scientologist and ask him or her "what do you call....?"

The main problem with asking Scientologists anything technical is that there is a taboo on "verbal tech." Ron set up this taboo presumably because followers were stumped or made to look foolish by easy questions (like why wasn't it "squirreling" for Ron to borrow ideas?)

If you ask about, say, reincarnation, a Scientologist is supposed to sign you up for a course so that you learn the exact Scientology thinking. (Also, if you challenge the teacher, the teacher will just make you look up the "misunderstood words" until you give up and stop questioning.) You're also supposed to be spoon fed the information so that the wild Xenu stuff is learned AFTER you've spent a ton of money. AND you're supposed to make clay models of Scientology concepts until you have properly "swallowed" the Scientology interpretation.


I suppose if you can't afford a course, they would want you to buy a book. If you were REALLY broke, I'm not sure they would want to lend you a book unless you go on staff - you might be too poor to be of value to them.

The reasonable compromise would be for you to ask a question and the Scientologist to flip through a book and show you the passage that "handles" your question. Of course, this assumes the Scientologist has deep knowledge of where the right passages are located in the book(s), and the time and patience to deal with REAL questions. I wish you could get a question and answer session that you didn't have to pay for, but it's unlikely.

So it's very frustrating to get any debate or even fact-finding from an active Scientologist. That's why the ex-Scientologists are so valuable on this site. THEY can answer questions without negative consequences.

Shatate, I hope you avoid courses and forking over money at all costs. You may think, "I'll do this one course and they'll leave me alone," but they'll immediately press you with hard-sell tactics, to sign up for the next course, and so on, and so on. The courses seem to weaken your abililty to question their authority, and start to separate you from your non-Scientology friends, while your Scientology friends are love-bombing you.

Highly intelligent and idealistic people have been sucked in by their brilliant mind-control techniques. Be VERY careful.

Shahate Illuminatus

Post by Shahate Illuminatus » Mon Jul 23, 2001 10:01 am

I'm not an idiot....sorry, but I'm an anthropologist who is studying how cults bring people in, and the social dynamic that develops from such systems. I have no interest in scientology except for this, most of the points that aren't completely ridiculous are quick rehashes of old age mystical techniques that LRH stole (I'm also somewhat knowledgable on Crowley and can tell you that ALOT of LRH techniques come from Crowley, they were just originally intended to be used upon yourself, with the intent to show you how easily your reality can be changed....LRH used this subversively to make people believe that what he said was happening was actually the truth.....)

I'm at no risk of being "sucked in" because my interest in the them comes from studying their sucking in techniques....

Thankyou for your concern, but I don't think that you should be so quick to jump on the "empathetic advisor" angle for everybody who expresses an interest in truly study this group rather than just condemning them.

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