Ladybird, I have argued with Fluffy far longer than you have and she's smug about the tech but sincere about opposing CoS. For curiosity sake, I looked up the earliest post I could find that Fluffy made, at I believe that if all clears and higher voted
, page 4, December 4, 2001.
While I agree that the major problem with CofS is that it is lightyears away from being democratic and that introducing some democracy (over DM's figurative dead body, one assumes) would certainly help CofS, I think using Clear or OT as voting criteria would be divisive and lead to elitism.
The organization is ALREADY very very elitist as it is. That's one of the outpoints with it.
So Fluffy has been consistently thoughtful about discussing actual CopS managment issues and philosophy. She did this today by discussing the Freezone Survivors. Years of posting, weathering an amazing amount of sarcasm (I plead guilty) and insults (I insult the idea, not the person), and she's still here. Go back to the earliest page of Opinions and Debate and there she is, fighting the fight. She DOES get points for longevity.
I didn't have to look up the argument when you started arguing with Fluffy because I know this argument well, having made it myself years ago. Fluffy defends the tech while she heartily attacks CoS. That's Fluffy, she's not leaving; you can see our polite but firm arguments back to 2001. If years of reasoned argument won't sway her, criticizing her for adding a counter-picketing comment to a counter-picketing thread won't sway her.
You started so promisingly, Ladybird. A search for your posts only goes back to July, and your first posts were helpful with a gratifying blend of thoughtfullness and snarkiness. I was trying to figure out where you parted company with some of the critics - I see in the thread Rebuilding Your Life
where Tory criticized you on page 14, and you (when you still used the name Tammy) thought umike was secretly accusing you of being an SP on page 18. That was a murky thread which I stayed out of until I could figure out how to treat Alan, who seemed both misguided AND in possession of highly valuable information about early CoS days.
I see where you and Tigger started fighting when, baffled by the Minton mess that Tigger (probably unwisely) brought up, you dug up the Andreas and Tigger - Stop It
. My heart really sank when I saw that thread resurrected, since Andreas and tigger stopped fighting years ago, Tigger left the board, and finally came back. Mercifully Andreas didn't jump in - he's hard to get into a fighting mood! On the same page, you also started a fight with umike! I could have warned you BOTH of them aren't turn-the-other-cheek types.
I didn't see any arguments between you and Lerma and or between you and Tom Padgett. A word of warning - these guys will argue for years, too.
I would recommend doing an author search on any of these people on this message board, and reading the overall content of their posts. Umike had a cranky period and I decided to go back to earlier posts of his to use against him, but when I read the old posts I realized (and then remembered) that he had a lot of good thought in the old days, and that helped me get past a period where he was more combative.
It's not plagiarism when Tigger posts news and gossip since she cites the source. It's a little opportunistic about the copyright laws, but I post similar items and the minute any paper or magazine protests, I'm happy to get the offending post deleted. It's some chore to DAILY do a search for Scientology news and then post it for years and years. You got upset that she was posting CoS press items but the regulars know that Tigger is definitely not endorsing these guys. I have occasionally put Hubbard or CoS quotes in purple to make it clear that they are CoS remarks and not mine, but it's time-consuming to do and sometimes the color goes in the wrong place and makes the post more confusing. I go by the "let them hang themselves with their own rope" philosophy - CoS frequently says something that is embarassingly revealing or provably wrong. If later, we need a quote, we can dig it up using the search function here.
Tigger is also an asset since she knows the Oklahoma Narconon situation and she will write letters to authorities using her own name. Fluffy (and Terrill, I'll admit it and even (I guess) Pitbull) are useful for their past knowledge of CoS and their present contacts in the indie-Freezone community. umike makes warm and understanding comments to many ex-Scientologists, he's got a lot of passion, and of course HE knows people inside and outside CoS. Tory and Arnie Lerma are good for TV, newspaper and magazine interviews.
I need long term, thoughtful posters like these people (even if some are kinda long-winded) because I don't know ANYTHING about CoS except one visit to Fort Harrison, some talks with my very-controlled CoS relatives, and...what I read on the Internet. It's such a shame that these people fight each other at the drop of a hat; it set a bad example for you, Ladybird. I'm not Merlin, who officially moderates the Opinions and Debate(moderated) section so I can't yank posts off, and this isn't a moderated section anyway. I'm not going to be like Rodney King and beg everybody to get along - some of these critics have deep wounds. All I do, and I recommend you do, is to try to post non-fight-related new threads and posts that will, one hopes, generate good conversation and nothing worse.