Turtlez wrote:@ Demented LRH
In est, for 4 long days, participants (customers) looked (if they wish to) into the how they lived their lives, at things they have done, choices and decisions and conclusions they have made about themselves, about others and about the world in the past and how those past based things may be unknowingly still effecting how they live and what is possible for them to do, think and be in their own lives. And I saw such things.
I wasn't there when there it was still called EST, I only know its current incarnation as Landmark, but the line that it is a "look into how you live your life" is how Landmark/Est likes to describe itself
I don't think that you
can really look at how you live your life while someone is talking at you without stopping: I think it is impossible.
I see this as a manipulative strategy - a form of deception if you want to put it into a more extreme term.
When we hear someone talk, it feels almost the same as if we think ourselves, but in fact, your own strategy of making sense is suppressed.
For 3 days, 14 hours each, plus added nighttime "exercises".
Whenever you are in a Landmark course, it is not you
that speaks, but the Forum Leader. You are held in specific ways of looking
at your life, and this implies a subversion of your potential for critical thinking by framing it into concepts such as Racket
- Wanting to Look Good
- Strong Suit
and later in the Advanced Course: your Act
"Looking at the way you live your life" is therefore always framed into a specific bias, and rather than a "look" I would characterize this as a "strategy to destabilize your approach to life".
The positive aspect of this is that it allows you some wiggle room, a moment of freedom from things that you thought were set in stone - that is what creates the impression to "benefit from the Forum".
However, every time Landmark has you "floating" for a moment, they move in and make it look as if you could only "keep on floating" if you "Enroll people into what you have gotten out of the Forum".
Ergo, bring people to Landmark
This is enshrined into their jargon - specific words are used such as "Enrollment" in which the difference between "Advertizing Landmark" and "Successful Communication" is erased completely, or at least relocated into a fog of confusion.
Whatever you may come up with as a resistance to this communicative strategy ("enrolling others into possibilities you have created" while simultaneously "bringing people to Landmark") is made out to be your problem
- something that you need to overcome to be free... to "live a life of possibility" etc.
The impression that you learn how to become more free, more powerful, more effective, more communicative, et cetera is sandwiched into the establishment of
communicative strategies that make you a personal Landmark Education advertizement machine.
What are "engrams"? Whatever they are, they were not part of est as far as I know.
I know Scientology only indirectly and I wasn't there when L.E. still was EST, but from what I experienced in Landmark and know about Scientology, there are a LOT of concepts adopted from Scientology.
It was not so noticeable to me in the "Forum", which seems to be more built around Alan Watt's concept of "Nothing" and things taken from Taoism.
I recently discovered this video, which contains a lot of moments and statements that re-appear in a jaw droppingly literal form in the Forum:
Other philosophical influences include Heidegger's existential philosophy - who himself had a connection to Taoism as well.
As for Scientology concepts, El Jefe pointed out the life strategy of "Be-Do-Have" of which I didn't know had a parallel in Scientology - so there might be more that I didn't notice.
Where the reference to Scientology become really obvious though is the "Advanced Course" which features among others
- a layout of the 8 dynamics (with the statement that the Forum was about the 1st and 2nd dynamic, while the Advanced Course is about the rest of the dynamics). The dynamics are presented as an onion with you at the center and "God" on the outside, with all the groups building up around you.
- yes, the Engram
, which is the reason for the traumatic experiences that make up your "Act". It is not called an "Engram", but a traumatic experience described in precisely the same way - accompanied by a moment of unconsciousness in which a suggestion was absorbed.
- a travel down the time track into potentially previous lifetimes (tracing back your Act/Engram to its earliest incident)
- partner training sitting facing each other staring into the other's eyes (albeit shorter than in the Scientology TRs)
- seeing life as a collection of "games to play"
There are probably more.
In the Advanced Course, they also pull the most intense sandwich of personal destabilisation and "Landmark Advertizement School".
You are made to "play a game" in which the goal is to get as many people into the "guest event" as possible.
I don't mind the philosophy, it's interesting.
My disagreement with Landmark is this:
Landmark manipulates you into working for its own benefit while distracting you from this fact by telling you that there is something interesting for you to discover and overcome inside your resistance against its manipulation.
Mind control by introversion.