Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

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Wieber
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Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by Wieber » Thu Sep 06, 2012 6:08 pm

Since there have been quite a few people coming to this message board, It thought it would be helpful to provide the link to Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology.

This page gives links to Scientology's web pages in addition to a variety of sites with information and criticism about Scientology.

Here's the link.
http://freedomofmind.com/Info/infoDet.php?id=230

As Tory has said many times, "Look at both sides and make up your own mind."
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
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NineLives
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by NineLives » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:29 am

Sadly, some of us who have dealt extensively with Steve Hassan, one-on-one, have had to come to the conclusion that it is a case of going from the frying pan into the fire, which is why although Weiber reminds me of myself about 15 years ago, having learned what I now know through direct experience with him, I cannot in all good conscience recommend him to anyone.

Indeed, look at both sides. It is difficult for some of us to give credibility to a self-proclaimed "cult expert" who himself practices information control. I provide these links to add balance to the constant promotion of him by some on this board and intolerance of any criticism of him by some. I have no intention of getting into a lengthy discussion with those who already have their minds made up. These links are an FYI. Read both sides and decide for yourselves.

http://www.cultnews.com/?p=2444

http://phtherapies.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... -with-him/

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'Alert'
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by 'Alert' » Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:47 am

NineLives wrote:Sadly, some of us who have dealt extensively with Steve Hassan, one-on-one, have had to come to the conclusion that it is a case of going from the frying pan into the fire, which is why although Weiber reminds me of myself about 15 years ago, having learned what I now know through direct experience with him, I cannot in all good conscience recommend him to anyone.

Indeed, look at both sides. It is difficult for some of us to give credibility to a self-proclaimed "cult expert" who himself practices information control. I provide these links to add balance to the constant promotion of him by some on this board and intolerance of any criticism of him by some. I have no intention of getting into a lengthy discussion with those who already have their minds made up. These links are an FYI. Read both sides and decide for yourselves.

http://www.cultnews.com/?p=2444

http://phtherapies.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... -with-him/

Aw FFS Monica, yes you have a massive bug up your arse about Hassan. How about you let that drop and just focus on the church of scientoloogy?
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

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Dorothy
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by Dorothy » Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:25 pm

NineLives wrote:Sadly, some of us who have dealt extensively with Steve Hassan, one-on-one, have had to come to the conclusion that it is a case of going from the frying pan into the fire, which is why although Weiber reminds me of myself about 15 years ago, having learned what I now know through direct experience with him, I cannot in all good conscience recommend him to anyone.

Indeed, look at both sides. It is difficult for some of us to give credibility to a self-proclaimed "cult expert" who himself practices information control. I provide these links to add balance to the constant promotion of him by some on this board and intolerance of any criticism of him by some. I have no intention of getting into a lengthy discussion with those who already have their minds made up. These links are an FYI. Read both sides and decide for yourselves.

http://www.cultnews.com/?p=2444

http://phtherapies.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... -with-him/
Welcome back to OCMB, NineLives.

I read your critical info on Hassan. Thank you for posting it.

Yes Hassan makes mistakes. He's not a perfect Cult Expert. He could do better. But to put it into perspective (for myself), I think he does way more good than harm. Anyone who is whistleblowing can be accused of "fear mongering". Fear mongering is so often used as a cheap political shot at someone you disagree with or want an easy way to debunk them.

Anyway, I got that you are critical of Hassan. I suppose we all have to be critical of something/someone.

But here's what I really want to know. If you do not like Hassan's brand of Cult Expertise, whose brand do you like? Can you recommend anyone to the listeners here? There are not a lot of people who study dangerous mind-control groups, or groups known as Cults. Do you even think there is such a thing as a "cult expert"?

If you had a child headed for membership in scientology- who would you send them to for a "balanced view"? Or would you simply let them join based on what the scientology registrars promise them?
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt

Don Carlo
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by Don Carlo » Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:16 pm

I debunked the theory that critics are cult like if they disagree with someone. Please do a search for the thread Bernie's June 2009 Website Against Critics. I am working from a smartphone with an awkward cut and paste function; I will supply the link later.
In this specific case, Hassan is not obligated to put out an unlimited welcome mat to anti-critics. They have plenty of places they can post, or they can create their own "I don't like Steve Hassan" web page. Or, they can write a book as excellent and popular as Hassan's.

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Wieber
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by Wieber » Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:45 pm

Of the various books on cults and coming out of cults I found Madeleine Tobias and Janja Lalich's Captive Hearts Captive Minds to be very good. Neither Janja Lalich nor Madeleine Tobias have web sites with cult information. If they do I didn't find them.

Whether with Steven Hassan you agree or disagree or find some of his information useful and some not the information pages on cults on his web sites are worth looking at because most of what he has there is links to other web sites where more information is available.

Margaret Singer's Cults in Our Midst is also very good about cults though as I recall there is not a lot of attention to getting someone out of a cult in that book. One of the great things about not being in a cult is you can read whatever you want. On any subject you can read books authored by different people.

So, by all means avail yourself of the different resources about cults but I think Steven Hassan has presented enough useful ideas and information on his web site and in his written works that I think it is worthwhile reading what he has to say.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
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NineLives
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by NineLives » Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:24 pm

Don Carlo wrote:I debunked the theory that critics are cult like if they disagree with someone. Please do a search for the thread Bernie's June 2009 Website Against Critics. I am working from a smartphone with an awkward cut and paste function; I will supply the link later.
In this specific case, Hassan is not obligated to put out an unlimited welcome mat to anti-critics. They have plenty of places they can post, or they can create their own "I don't like Steve Hassan" web page. Or, they can write a book as excellent and popular as Hassan's.
Straw man. I never said "critics are cult like if they disagree with someone." Steve Hassan is cult-like because he refuses to tolerate those who disagree with him and bans them from his Facebook page, yet if any group he considers a "cult" does that, he would be all over them about it, calling it "information control". It's called being a hypocrite and having a double standard. That's what I object to. I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with anyone else, but apparently Hassan does.

Just because there are plenty of other places critics can post (and have) doesn't let Hassan off the hook for his behavior. What kind of "cult expert" doesn't model that kind of behavior he is claiming to encourage in others? A hypocritical one.

As I understand it, though, my criticisms are the least of his worries these days and that's fine with me. There are many others who are onto him and calling him out on his behavior.

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Wieber
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by Wieber » Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:18 am

I've never met Steven Hassan and never commented on his Facebook page, though I do get the occasional message from it. I have only read what he has written and seen him in some videos. I found his books helpful when I left $cientology and was figuring out what had gone down. He wasn't the only author whose books I read. On the other hand there are not a lot of "what-happens-in-cults" type books out there.

If Steven Hassan manifests cult like behavior is it possible that it's because he was in the moonies and there is some residual stuff from those days going on? Has anyone pointed out to him, "Hey, Steve, that's cult behavior there."? Can they do that with him? Would he look if they did point it out?

I think if I met him socially I'd get along with him. From what I've seen he and Arnie Lerma got along well.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
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Dorothy
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by Dorothy » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:06 am

Wieber wrote:I've never met Steven Hassan and never commented on his Facebook page, though I do get the occasional message from it. I have only read what he has written and seen him in some videos. I found his books helpful when I left $cientology and was figuring out what had gone down. He wasn't the only author whose books I read. On the other hand there are not a lot of "what-happens-in-cults" type books out there.

If Steven Hassan manifests cult like behavior is it possible that it's because he was in the moonies and there is some residual stuff from those days going on? Has anyone pointed out to him, "Hey, Steve, that's cult behavior there."? Can they do that with him? Would he look if they did point it out?

I think if I met him socially I'd get along with him. From what I've seen he and Arnie Lerma got along well.
From what I got from the critical articles NineLives posted is that Hassan is writing for the popular masses rather than the academic reader. This is not a crime. Regular folks do not really want to read academic writing. Hassan is just trying to reach more people (imo) with his writing style. The academics are trained to dissent against this sort of thing. That's fine. But I look at the purpose of the writing, and what it accomplishes, over some technical point. Hassan is probably reaching more cult victims or potential cult victims because of his writing style. I had the same reaction to his book (first in the "trilogy") as you did Wieber. It was just the right prescription at just the right time. It helped free my mind from the chains of the cult. To that I am grateful to Hassan. He's not perfect, but he helped me. And that's what's important. Once you get your degree you are no longer writing a paper perfectly to get an "A" for a professor: you are talking to an audience. That is what Hassan did. He talked to me.
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt

FOMResearch
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by FOMResearch » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:35 pm

Here is a video of Tory Christman and Steve Hassan:

http://vimeo.com/17042250

http://vimeo.com/17044043

Here are Karen Pressley and Steve Hassan:

http://vimeo.com/45603447

http://vimeo.com/13073239

Also Larry Brennan and Nancy Many with Steve Hassan:

http://vimeo.com/12397389
Last edited by FOMResearch on Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

FOMResearch
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by FOMResearch » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:48 pm

Video of Tory Christman, ex 30yr Scientologist (OT7) with Steve Hassan 8-7-12!

http://vimeo.com/47280261

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Wieber
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by Wieber » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:41 am

Welcome to the Bake, FOMResearch.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

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I'mglib
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by I'mglib » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:10 am

Welcome, FOMResearch. Take your shoes off and stay a while.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

FOMResearch
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by FOMResearch » Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:22 pm

Thanks to both of you. Yes, I reckon I"ll stick around awhile.

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gray_geek
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Re: Steven Hassan's Information Page on Scientology

Post by gray_geek » Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:48 pm

FOMResearch wrote:Video of Tory Christman, ex 30yr Scientologist (OT7) with Steve Hassan 8-7-12!

http://vimeo.com/47280261
I've watched this video. It is very interesting. From 4:24 to 4:34 Tory said something like "Katie Holmes being paid 15 million dollars to get married to Tom Cruise and then paid additional 5 millions per year. "

If this is true, than, the marriage was not only arranged. It was just a cold blooded business decision. No emotions. This is really hard to swallow.

Does anybody knows what(who) is the source if this info ? Where I can find/more about this ?

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