The concepts of good vs. evil are often separated by "intent."

The Bible speaks of satan as tricky. Wolves in sheeps clothing is used to discribe the level of deception he will go through to draw people in.

Now as far as actual mention of Lucifer pledges to capture a worshiping of a satan event or status, in $cn, Hub was and still is worshipped as a god-like figure.
I still have visions of org gatherings where the masses chant on and on and on..."HIP HIP HOORAY"
while starring glassy eyed at a picture of the commadore.

It's one thing to be concerned about the integrity of the "critic movement," and it's another thing to examine the "intent" of Hubbard, and now, his survivors. Are they good and pure? Or do they exude evil?

<<<<>>>>

A very non-committal statement in regards to Hub's system of beliefs
($cn.)

<<<>>>

I agree.

<<<<>>>>

Nope.

I said what I said and I said why I said it. You can make up all the stuff you want, but in the end, you're still incorrect.

Had I a problem with criticism of CofS or Scn or Hubbard, I'd not have gone on the radio criticizing CofS, I'd not have left CofS over my right to post on a.r.s. and to associate with "SPs", I'd not be going to critic's parties, writing and phoning them and having them in my home, and I'd not have defended criticism of Scn- not just CofS but Scn- to Gwen Mayfield Barnard, from the Portland OR DSA's office when she was sent up to Seattle to "handle" me. Nor would I have written enough criticisms of Hubbard to earn me the undying disgust of several Freezoners on Beliefnet who also post to the FZ Org yahoo group list and bashed the hell out of me there for criticizing Hubbard.

Chuck Beatty, Barb, Dave T, Patty P- they all can tell you how I conduct myself when others are criticizing Hubbard and they can all tell you that I have criticized Hubbard on many occasions, myself.

Q.E.D.

Nice attempt at deflecting, though.

Of course it is. I wasn't talking about "Hub's system of beliefs. ($cn.)" in that post.

Yes, that does describe several people here.

But I find such comments meaningless and I prefer to just talk to people as people, taking each post as it comes, answering some, not answering others, etc.

entheta wrote:


You have to understand the nature of what critics like me are saying when we speak of Scientology as being Satanic:

1. To be Satanic seldom, if ever, involves the worship Satan or pledging one's self to Satan. That is a big misunderstood. To be Satanic, or Luciferian, is to adopt the mindset of a Magician who masters the elemental spirits and higher entities to do his bidding. Satanism is about exchange and not worship. Satan has something you want and you have something he wants. If you fulfill Satan's conditions and give what is asked for, you are given what you want. Additionally, in a Satanic group, there is a small core of Satanists in the inner circle and everyone else are the victims. Most Scientologists are victims of the inner circle, they are sheep to the slaughter. Some of them are breeding stock who will give Scientology new SO members.

2. What Satan and his minions want is food. Their food is human emotion. They want to surround or inhabit human beings to experience sex energy, fear, death, blood, and other emotions. Human sensations are the drugs of choice for malevolent entities. The purity of human emotion is highly valued: Pure fear, pure sexual power, pure rage, pure violence, pure power in human form. This is why Luciferians and demonic entities value the rape or ritualistic murder of children and of young virgins: There is pure terror for the victim and pure power for the rapist. This is the Satanic purity craved by Luciferians and the entities with whom they are trafficking.

The lower grades in Scientology are purificatory. They allow Scientologists to strip away the layers of conditioning that pollute the purity of their experience. The experience of a lower level Scientologist becomes pure and this is experienced as a win. On the hidden level, the purificatory process will allow the entities to have a more highly refined victim whose experience is pure and unfettered by weakness. Satanists and the entities despise weakness because it results in human experience diluted by layers of natter and rationalizations, if you will.

3. CoS is a hierarchical organization. It has public, private, and invisible levels and purposes. Only the few people at the top know the true Satanic purposes and aims of Scientology. These aims are mind control by gradient and the enslavement of beings. The concealed, or invisible, Satanic cabal leads Scientology for the express purpose of mind control and enslavement by gradient. The Scientology inner circle are Satanic. Those who are enslaved become Satanic without ever being told what is being done to them. This is the infamous deception for which Scientology has become so widely known. Satanism is a deception. This deception is practiced upon people without their knowledge or consent. The "Con" is part of the unequal power equation over others that thrills the Satanist. "Do as thou will shall be the whole of the law" includes the Satanist using and deceiving people for his own purposes.

One can be Satanic by deliberate purpose. Conversely, one can become Satanic by immersion and indoctrination into processes and ideology that do not appear to be Satanic. At the OT level, it is clear that the attainment of personal Godhood and the certainty of immortality are the focus. The goal of attaining Godhood is Satanic to its core. Even in Greek mythology we read of the Gods punishing mortals who sought to become Gods. Mortals who seek to become Gods are always cast down. Satan offers Godhood as a way to enhance and purify an OT who will ultimately become a sacrifice, a meal, for demonic entities.

4. The destruction of a human psyche and the ruination of a human life is the supreme prize of Satanists and the entities. Think of eating lobster or shrimp: You eat the meat inside and throw away the shell. Older OT's who have been consumed and ruined are the walking dead. They are just shells. The phrase "to drop the body" is implanted early in Scientology. The idea that a "meat body" is worthless is implanted early in Scientology. This implants activate when a Scientologist has been used up, consumed, and ruined. The idea is for them to die and to disappear so as not to embarrass Scientology. Alternately, these OT's can surrender the body in the "Level Above OT" I have postulated. I believe that this happens at Trementina at certain times of the year. The main tunnel of the shaft acts as a waveguide where demonic energies are focused to take over and possess a human body whose inner spirit, or thetan, has been consumed and destroyed by occultic Scientological processes.


****
When Satanism is overt -- as it was with Anton Le Vey -- it is phony. It is all a stage show as Ozzy used in the 1970's and 1980's with Black Sabbath. If someone overtly announces that they worship Satan, then they are merely being scandalous for its own sake. Young people who are Goths are usually seeking attention by use of scandalous dress and clueless invocations read from grimories they do not understand. The mordant fascination with death seen in Goth culture is an indicator that these kids are fascinated by funerary rituals and the Afterlife.

/////

I do.

from email, Goebbels was appointed chancellor of Germany on April 30th.

re a distraction, the topic is a metaphor for evil, considering how long it takes me to explain how evil evil can be in scientology, I find accurate metaphors most useful, especially those than include evidence of a knowing complicity and intent.

And I did get one of the request fulfilled

"I do think you are onto something significant. The odds of coincidence are highly unlikely that this date appears in so many foreboding events. Just multiply 1/365 by itself for each instance.
That is, 0.002739726^n "


See the new pageHERE

Songbird, you are one of my favorite contributors to this board, but on this one I have to disagree with you.

I think there are 2 main reasons why civilized society will stamp out Scientology.

1) Because of how absolutely ridiculous Scientology is
2) Because of the Satanic nature of Scientology

Reason #1 is about 25% completed. Cultural leaders like South Park, Jon Stewart, the BBC have been at the forefront of leading this effort. 75% of this work on this still needs to be done, but we’re getting there.

Reason #2 is still the undiscovered country.

I don’t advocate violence, but I swear to God, some Christians in this country would want to take those Orgs apart with their bare hands if they really and truly knew the Satanic origins, the Satanic intents and the Satanic purposes of the Cult of Scientology.

Scientology is the most monstrously evil organization since Nazism. When Christian America truly understands the Satanic nature of Scientology, then watch out. Better for the cult that it should have a millstone tied around it’s neck and cast into the sea.

well said, Morsicle, thank you


as an example of the point morsicle is making

In Russia, on the anniversary of the defeat of Nazi German, they sell German Swaztika flags on the street.. people buy them by the thousands so they can be placed on the street as the veterans of WWII march upon them.

The nazi's are detested above all else in Russia.

When German forces were sourrounding St Petersburg - Stalingrad... there was an icon, .. hmm I need to back up a bit...

Stalin had gathered up all the icons of the Russian orthodox church to destroy them in his quest to crush religion in russia.

But there was an icon he could not destroy, because it was so beautiful, and it was an icon of the successful previous defense of St Petersburg hundred of years previously... and it was said that if the Russian orthodox priests performed the particular ceremony, the city could not fall...

There is also one account that he tried to burn it but it would not burn or melt... so he stored it...out of sight.

So desperate was Stalin, that he ordered the still living Russian Orthodox priests who were in his gulags, to perform the ceremony.. and took the icon out of storage and gave it to them, to perform that ceremony, using that icon, so that Stalingrad would not fall to the Nazis

They did.

The temperature dropped 25 degrees the next day and the German tanks stopped as the lubricant congealed... and the Nazis were routed, who did not freeze to death and Stalingrad stood!!

And the rest is history.

That icon is now in a sanctified pew, in the museum in Moscow.

And I absolutely butchered this beautiful story, my apologies to anyone insulted by this pathetic rendition.

And the Nazis were at their core, practicing Satanists amongst everything else they dug up to fulfill their evil aspirations.

---------------------

Here is the story of
ICON OF OUR LADY OF KAZAN

"On November 4th Orthodox believers cherish the icon of Our Lady of Kazan, one of the most respected icons in Russia.

The icon was discovered in the town of Kazan 25 years after Tsar Ivan IV (the Terrible) conquered the hostile Tartar state of Kazan. Christianity was gradually taking root in the Islamic town of Kazan and, probably, to further consolidate the Orthodox faith God revealed a miracle-working icon of the Virgin.

Once there was a fire in Kazan and half of the town was destroyed. A house of a strelets (a regular soldier of a special regiment in the 16-17 centuries) burnt to the ground. When the man decided to build a new house, his 9-year-old daughter, Matrona saw the Virgin in a dream. The Virgin demanded that the town authorities and the clergy dig out Her icon in the place She indicated. The girl told the dream to her mother, but she did not pay much attention to her daughter’s words. The dream repeated, however. Only when the Virgin appeared in Matrona’s dream for the third time the mother and the child went to the clergy and told them about it. Then the mother and the daughter began digging in the place indicated by the Virgin and found an icon wrapped in a sleeve of some old clothing. The icon was absolutely undamaged, without a single dark spot. People rushed to the icon, they prayed and kissed it reverently. Prayer services were conducted and finally the icon was placed in the Annunciation Cathedral. On that very day two blind men were miraculously cured. As became known later, the icon was a replica of the miracle-working icon of the Virgin traditionally attributed to St. Luke and kept in Constantinople. Following the order of the Tsar, a church and a convent in the honour of Our Lady of Kazan were built in the site where the icon had been found. Matrona, the girl who saw the Virgin in her child’s dreams, was the first to be initiated into the convent."

Continues
HERE

The discussion of whether or not Scientology is based on satanic principals is not a disctraction. It is at the core of the reason it is considered a scam inasmuch as Scientology claims to be compatible with Christianity and solicits Christians for membership.

Christians should be informed that Scientology is based on satanic principals, it's pedigree is Dark Arts, it espouses belief in past lives, it's founder claimed to be the successor to homosexual Black Magician Aleister Crowley the Great Beast 666, considered himself Luciferian and anti-christ, bashed Jesus and other items that are inconsistent with Christianity. In fact, they are blasphemous to Christianity.

Somewhere, Scientology is saying: "WHOOPS!!! If people find out about the pedigree of Scientology, the CHRISTIANS won't join! Nobody with any SENSE would join! Certainly not the agnostics and athiests! They will all know that our Registrars are LIARS and MANIUPLATORS who are not there to save the world but instead there to sell carrots on a stick! We can't have that! So, let's send some company shills over to the boards where they are discussing this to disrupt the conversations, to call the discussions irrelevant, and assassinate the characters of those who continue to discuss this. All this talk about satanism can't be LIBELOUS, because it's TRUE or we'd sue the pants off those people. But it is so very very bad for business we have to do SOMETHING!"

Scientology is a pyramid or MLM type con business. It operates exactly like other such cons.

If you go to Rip Off reports and look up Quixtar, Primerica, Cydcor and other pyramid type MLM recruitment scams, you will notice the same thing happening on discussions. People report having been misled seriously, raped financially, they outline about the systematic deceits, the peer pressure and mileiu control tactics, and other blatant abuses. Then the company shills come onboard to tell folks that the complainers are liars, babies, whingers, losers. The ones who do this are the latest raw meat who still buy into the pie in the sky and believe that they can actually grab the carrot that is on a string before them.

They do this because they need to recruit, and they cannot recruit informed people.


Love,

Os

Reading Wilkes above, I do agree that pointing out the scam of CoS' "compatible with all other religions" claim is certain on-topic, no doubt. And their hiding of Hubbard's association with Crowley and Parsons, in order to avoid alienating Christians, is probably true too.



Complete agreement on this. In fact, I got into a "spat" here a while back, trying to convince someone of this very point. THEY were trying to make the case, as BofF often does, that it is okay to use the tech for your own purposes, and MY point was: why do that? when (a) there are other therapies available, and (b) when you announce that it's ok to "dabble", you just encourage newbies or lurkers to dance dangerously near the edge of the cult, IMO.



that's a good way to put it; that's how this talk makes me feel.



well, yes, but that thread would be called "Was HUBBARD a satanist". And that would be a good and relevant discussion.

My point is: to me, IMO, the question "is SCN satanic?" is a different question than "Is SCN evil?" To me there is no question that Scientology is evil; it harms, deceives, robs and breaks up the families of honest people who had good intentions. If it were removed from the planet, this would improve human life. I guess in my mind, this is as evil as anything needs to be, to get me to actively oppose it.

Now, it's clear from several posts that for many people, evil = satan.
Without opening up THAT philosophical debate, personally, while there are many things evil in nature, I do not believe in such a being as satan. So when anyone calls anything satanic, the scientist in me says prove it. And so I fear that by bringing in the charge of satanism, we allow supporters of CoS to gain a foothold by allowing them to point out this "error" and then they can make the argument that critics are wrong, are too biased, are too reactionary, etc.

Believe me, I agree that Scientology is evil, and if you wanna define evil as that which comes from satan, well in an odd way we're in agreement, at least when it comes to Scientology.

Then again, if Arnie is really onto something, and all these clues really do mean that Hubbard was a follower of Moloch, then to me that's just one more laughable thing about L Ron Hubbard: on the wrong track again...

Very odd.

The case for Scientology being Satanic, explicitly Satanic, overtly Satanic, intentionally Satanic, directly Satanic, designed specifically to be Satanic by a Satanist, is very compelling.

Overwhelmingly compelling, in my view.

Yet some feel obligated to repeatedly say “No, it’s not Satanic, just evil.”

I don’t get it. Is it that they’re not paying attention to the mountain of evidence that Scientology is explicitly satanic? Is it that they do not read the posts where the case that Scientology is explicitly satanic is being made? Is it that the very topic scares them?

Scientology is the furthest any OVERTLY Satanic group has ever gotten in American history.

Yet now someone will come back with, “Oh no, not satanic, just evil.”

Hello.

Having been brought up with the principals of satanism, I can certainly spot them in Scientology. In case others can't see that satanic principals are applied to indoctrinate unwitting people (known as "raw meat" in both satanism and Scientology), I will repost this link:

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/cultcontrol.html

It is written by a satanist.

See how the methods discussed in this link are congruent with the methods Scientology uses on it's recruits and membership.

Love,

Os