Was L. Ron Hubbard Sexually Molested as a Child?

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:57 am

Transferred from another thread:

butwehave11 wrote:
"In truth their is no correlation between homosexuality and peodphilia, yet Miscavaige, Cruise, or Hubbard may have, or may still, feel that their is a corellation between the two. From what I've learned is that Miscavaige has much more severe problems with sadism, uncontrolled rage, and a inferiority complex as well."

Ladybird wrote:
I have been researching a lot about this, (my computer is protesting from all the weird bugs you get from pedophile sites) but you are correct according the specialists I have read. The male victim of a male pedophile often doubts his own masculinity, and equates whatever physical sexual enjoyment or feelings of "love" for and from his abuser as evidence that he might be gay. This often causes intense rage when the boy becomes a man, because his "lover" rejects him for becoming sexually mature. Pedophiles are not interested in men. But a boy has no experience to draw on, as he was taken advantage of before he was sexually aware.

In Hubbards case, he grew up to be a reasonably attractive, tall, strong manly man. DM did not grow much, and remains a frail asthmatic dwarf. (Some reports put him at 5'5", but I am 5'6"1/2 and I tower over him. I would guess he is 5'2", not counting his elevator shoes.) So DM is dealing with not only his past, but also his Napoleonic Complex.

Thanks, Ladybird

SCIE-NO-MO-
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Post by SCIE-NO-MO- » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:06 pm

This is interesting reading. According to Russell Miller's book, "Bare-faced Messiah" Elron seemed more interested in the young girls, his messengers, but it was only suggested that he was into "voyarism". Does anyone know if he "tutored" young Davie and had alone time with him - or any other young SO boys. It seems almost impossible for me to imagine, given how many people he was surrounded with. Whether young Davie was literally or figuratively raped, what remains is that he is undoubtedly "damaged goods" in his current state. My 2 cents.

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Post by J. Swift » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:23 am

I have had a person who worked at Gold base tell me that, when DM lived there as his main residence, he spent, "A lot of time behind closed doors with good looking young male Scientologists." This person told me that these young aides had "DM haircuts and clothes and were clones." This is anecdotal, but it could be that Scientology is a secret gay elite at the very top of the organization. This would make no difference to me; I just wish they would come out of the closet if this were the case and stop calling gayness a sexual perversion. Scientology also deems masturbation to be a crime and this shows a profound ignorance of human sexuality as well as an attempt to induce guilt into people and gain yet another control mechanism.

As to LRH in later life, he was likely sexually impotent due to drugs, alcohol, being overweight, and smoking three packs a day of Kools. All of these factors have been linked to male impotence.

Does DM smoke? Did he ever quit smoking? If so, how much did he smoke when he smoked?

.
Last edited by J. Swift on Tue Mar 28, 2006 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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butwehave11
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Post by butwehave11 » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:47 am

One might not think that those questions are pertinent, until one asks the questions that maybe Ron was trying to stop, and didn't want to go to a psychiatrist. Maybe he was purposefully keeping himself impotent.
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Post by Pippi_le_peu » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:30 pm

Ron would be amused, and yea, a little envious of the learn-id (sic) sexual interdiscourse proffered (from above).

Yet, a feel a few salient points have been neglected:

(1) The causal link between Ron's "researches" in Greece and John Travolta's exuberant proclamation of his lifestyle's recreational lubricant: "Grease is the word". Indeed.

(2) The influences of Ron's "researches" of grease on the selection of Thomas Mapother III'ds handle: "Tom Cruise"

(3) Finally, the well documented* cycle of violence where children exposed to sexual, physical and/or emotional violence very often re-visit the sin's of their fathers upon their children. What was the relationship between Ron and his father? Ron and his mother?
Fact checkers:
  • - Did Ron's parents (either one) ever attend one of Ron's 4 marriages?
    - What did Ron do when his mother died?
    - What did Ron do when his father died?
    - Did Ron's dad distance himself from his son and what were Ron's motives for seeking a parallel carrer in the Navy (approval?)?
    - what were Ron's relationships with his own sons and daughters?
    - Why was Ron so assiduous about personally conducting weekly prostate exams on the teenage David Miscavige?
    - And, if Ron's WW-II Navy service was aboard a submarine chaser, why did he later engage in role reversal and repeatedly sink the aforementioned David Miscaviage with his (Ron's) pink torpedo?
Disturbing questions! You must agree.


* e.g., http://jiv.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/20/4/455

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Gay Pedophilia Ring for the Rich and Famous

Post by lermanet_com » Thu Feb 23, 2006 2:34 pm

J. Swift wrote:I have had a person who worked at Gold base tell me that, when DM lived there as his main residence, he spent, "A lot of time behind closed doors with good looking young male Scientologists." This person told me that these young aides had "DM haircuts and clothes and were clones." This is anecdotal, but it could be that Scientology is a secret gay elite at the very top of the organization. This would make no difference to me; I just wish they would come out of the closet if this were the case and stop calling gayness a sexual perversion. Scientology also deems masturbation to be a crime and this shows a profound ignorance of human sexuality as well as an attempt to induce guilt into people and gain yet another control mechanism.

As to LRH in later life, he was likely sexually impotent due to drugs, alcohol, being overweight, and smoking three packs a day of Kools. All of these factors have been linked to male impotence.

Does DM smoke? Did he ever quit smoking? If so, how much did he smoke when he smoked?

.





.

Are you alluding that David Miscavige's Scientology Cult has become a front in itself?

Hiding a Gay Pedophilia Ring for the Rich and Famous?
Do you THINK scientology works?
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Post by tom_ » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:02 pm

While Admiral Davie does certainly appear to suffer from a severe case of SMS (short man syndrome,) here's some interesting reading on his red haired mentor's sexual orientations
germain to this thread topic --------> http://www.ronthenut.org/limpwhat.htm

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Post by J. Swift » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:47 am

Are you alluding that David Miscavige's Scientology Cult has become a front in itself?

Hiding a Gay Pedophilia Ring for the Rich and Famous?
Arnie, I said it was anecdotal. I can't speak for what DM is or isn't doing with Scientology. His leadership does seem inexplicable at times. Why the brutality and anger? He commands vast wealth, has servants, and lives in luxury. He can live in Florida, California, the Carribbean, or Europe. He hobnobs with Tom Cruise on the "front lines" and yet returns to Gold only to pummel Mike Rinder to a bloody pulp. Why the anger and rage given his multi-millionaire lifestyle deluxe? His is not a world without war, violence, or insanity and in fact war, violence and insanity seem, paradoxically, to be his world.

As to DM's sexuality: He has been married for a long time and so that makes him as solidly and unmistakeably heterosexual as Tom Cruise. That fact alone should dismiss all anecdotes or rumors that I may have heard from someone who has done certain contract work at Gold and in Hollywood circles. Someone, I might add, who has serious reasons to be disaffected with Mr. Miscavige and so may be spreading these vicious and unfounded anecdotes as a sort of perverse bemusement. I cannot account for the motivations of this raconteur who regaled a chic cocktail party with anecdotes of DM's alleged proclivities.
One entry found for raconteur.
Main Entry: ra·con·teur
Pronunciation: "ra-"kän-'t&r, -k&n-
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Middle French, from raconter to tell, from Old French, from re- + aconter, acompter to tell, count -- more at ACCOUNT
: a person who excels in telling anecdotes
Main Entry: an·ec·dote
Pronunciation: 'a-nik-"dOt
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural anecdotes also an·ec·dota /"a-nik-'dO-t&/
Etymology: French, from Greek anekdota unpublished items, from neuter plural of anekdotos unpublished, from a- + ekdidonai to publish, from ex out + didonai to give -- more at EX-, DATE
: a usually short narrative of an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident
*****

I rather find Pippi_le_peu's questions about LRH to be far more compelling than any anecdote or rumination about DM's sexuality:
- Did Ron's parents (either one) ever attend one of Ron's 4 marriages?
- What did Ron do when his mother died?
- What did Ron do when his father died?
- Did Ron's dad distance himself from his son and what were Ron's motives for seeking a parallel carrer in the Navy (approval?)?
- what were Ron's relationships with his own sons and daughters?

Disturbing questions! You must agree.
The questions I cited were very disturbing questions. The other questions were, once again however, bemusing anecdotes that are unfounded given DM's and Tom Cruise's recondite heterosexuality.
Pronunciation: 're-k&n-"dIt, ri-'kän-
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin reconditus, past participle of recondere to conceal, from re- + condere to store up, from com- + -dere to put -- more at COM-, DO
1 : hidden from sight : CONCEALED
2 : difficult or impossible for one of ordinary understanding or knowledge to comprehend : DEEP <a recondite subject>
3 : of, relating to, or dealing with something little known or obscure <recondite fact about the origin of the holiday -- Floyd Dell>
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Was L R H sexuall molested as a child?

Post by allergic to shellfish » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:00 pm

While it is entirely possible that he was groomed / molsested by Thompson or others, I think Hubbards sexual disfunction and attitudes go back much further.
pippi le peu made some very good questions.
What about his relationship with his parents? I have just read hubbards "Admissions" for the first time (quite a insight into his mind and thought processes). His guilt and sexual confusion is painfully apparent. I found two quotes that directly mention his parents.
self pity and conceit are not wrong. Your mother was in error.
Well its quite easy to see what she thought of him!!
An Admission that reaches that IMO reaches to the core of his disfunction is.
Masturbation does not injure or make insane. Your parents were in error. Everyone masterbates.
He also states
That masturbation was no sin or crime and did not injure me. That no sexual practice has ever dulled me.
Dependent upon your religion, generation or upbringing these thoughts and feelings in themselves are not unusual. Hubbard obviously had them and at that time did not want them. These admissions were made at a time when he was mixing with sexually liberal satanists and IMO Hubbard wanted to change his thinking to fit with with their attitudes.
There are things withing Admissions that I don't understand and could be important and could point to sexual abuse. Also Admissions are not complete and were never intended IMO for publication, so one would think if he was abused it would be addressed in Admissions, but also could those entries be missing or distroyed?
One bit I found cryptic, but potentially important. WHO IS FLAVIA?
THe sexual matters taught to me by Flaivia do not apply. My chastity is in loving Sara.
Also J. Swift earlier mentioned Havelock Ellis and that L R H believed that he was him in an earlier life. In admissions it seems that L R H wants nothing to do with Ellis. He states:
You have forgotten the case histories of Havelock Ellis. They did not surfeit you. You have forgotten them.
This is curious as this is the only written works that he denounces. Somewhere else in Admissions he states he has total recall (and other boll*cks). Obviously he never got over his sexual guilt - but in Admissions we see a clear attempt LRH tried to rid his guilt and replace it with ego. (IMO).


Sightly off topic but I re-editied this LRH interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qtEDoACcfY

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lucy skywalker
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Post by lucy skywalker » Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:02 pm

allergic to shellfish,

Great edit!!! :lol:

Thanks for bringing forth the hidden truth within the interview. :wink:

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Post by allergic to shellfish » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:59 am

Thanks Lucy
I might try my hand at a DM interview next!

crackers
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Post by crackers » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:41 pm

I'm just a lurker, but here's my 2 cents.
while I think it's possible that Hubbard cld have been sexually abused as a
child, and those abuses might have played into his stories in Scientology, I don't think that sexual abuse caused all his adult behaviors, like megalomania, paranoia, lying, drug abuse etc.
In J. Swift's posts, he refernces Hubbard's official biographies, but
a lot of the information in those biographies are made up, or highly exaggerated, like his supposedly 'exemplary' military service, and that Blackfoot Indian Bloodbrother blather. I heard that there were no such thing as Indian Bloodbrothers, that it was just something Hollywood made up. If anything, I think that Hubbard's official biographies are just there to create a mythology around Hubbard, making him seem like some visionary, once in a lifetime prophet.
For instance, in a lot of Hollywood movies, the tough, & stoic good guy meets some mysterious Indian, Buddhist guru person that gives them special insight and allows them to beat the bad guys. This even happens in Star Wars with Luke meeting both Obi-Wan Kenobi & Yoda!
As for all that Navy role-playing, Hubbard's dad was in the Navy, & I
think he wanted his son to be in the Navy too. Add that to Hubbard's dismal war service record, & maybe Hubbard was trying to prove something, or live up to some ideal Navy commander that he cldn't be in real life.

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Post by J. Swift » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:49 am

Crackers, Scientology can't have it both ways. If it wants to present a bio of LRH that has Ron as a boy in the company of older men, then it has to accept that these older men could have molested him -- especially Commander Thompson or Old Mayo.

If Scientology wants the possibility that LRH may have been sexually molested to go away, then it has to change LRH's biography. What is the public to make of an adult male spending alone time with Ron teaching him about Freud and sex when he was twelve years old? What is the public to think about Ron living alone with an older man in China when he was sixteen?

Don't you agree that all of this seems really quite sexually perverted?

Anyone who is a parent, a law enforcement agent, or a mental health professional, would find it inexcusably negligent of LRH's parents that they allowed an older adult male to spend time alone with their twelve year old son teaching him about the graphic sexuality in Freud's work. This sounds to all parents, law enforcement agents, and mental health professionals like a pedophile grooming an unprotected and vulernable boy.

Crackers, we are not talking about what happens in movies. We are talking about what LRH and Scientology say are fact. This was no movie and LRH may have been sexually molested. This molestation may explain why he was such a badly damaged adult who purposely harmed so many people. Was he taking out his rage and pain at having been molested on others? How else do we explain Ron's unhealthy and harmful behavior as an adult? Why did he drink and use drugs?

This is just not an ideal scene.

So which is it? Did LRH tell lies about his childhood and teenage years? If so, why does Scientology leave these lies up? Or did the young LRH spend all of that time alone with older men in unsavory settings as he claimed?

,
Last edited by J. Swift on Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by ambassador_yak » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:04 am

Message from the Raki/Klingon embassy: We have heard reports that L.Ron Hubbard was sexually molested as a child, We just want people to know that we waited for him to die before we molested him.
Our revels now are ended. these our actors, as I foretold you, were all spirits and are melted into air, into thin air . . . We are such stuff as dreams are made on, and our little life is rounded with a sleep.-Shakespeare

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Post by curiosity » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:16 am

Aaargh! I can't believe you are all missing it! Read Hubbard's 10-volume Mission Earth story. It is chock-full of EXPLICIT references to homosexual sex involving men and teenagers, like the running joke of the old man with a big penis who penetrates 13-year boys who can't handle the man's size, the teacher who gives blow jobs to a line-up of teenage boys, the running joke about Gaylov who keeps felating the antagonist, male teenage sex prostitutes and how exquisite one of them feels having anal intercourse with another one. These are not just passing references but keep repeating throughout the whole ten volumes as elements of humor. Probably every gay who has read these books and read the over-the-top denunciation of homosexuality in Dianetics and Science of Survival has no doubt that Hubbard was a big-time self-repressing self-denying gay. He REVELLED in this stuff. He should have just come out of the closet. Instead he did what so many people like that do: they mask and hide behind their exaggerated heterosexuality and cause a lot of damage to gay people with their vitriol.

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