Was L. Ron Hubbard Sexually Molested as a Child?

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butwehave11
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Post by butwehave11 » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:30 am

That's probably becuase I never read that thing, I tried listening to it on tape but I found myself thinking of things I could be doing that I would like better

like having my cat use my nutsack for a scratching post
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Post by J. Swift » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:42 am

curiosity, you have provided a breakthrough in this thesis. Could you please take some time to post some quotes? I could never bring myself to read the ten volume series. Since you have, your help with quotes would be greatly appreciated and would provide some literary-psychological evidence that LRH hid repressed psychological events in his fiction.

What do you make of Hubbard and Commander Thompson? Is that a NAMBLA thing there or what?
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Curiosity killed the cat!

Post by Pippi_le_peu » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:00 am

Read Hubbard's 10-volume Mission Earth story. It is chock-full of EXPLICIT references to homosexual sex involving men and teenagers, like the running joke of the old man with a big penis who penetrates 13-year boys who can't handle the man's size, the teacher who gives blow jobs to a line-up of teenage boys, the running joke about Gaylov who keeps felating the antagonist, male teenage sex prostitutes and how exquisite one of them feels having anal intercourse with another one.
I echo J. Swifts request for some quotes! If you could provide us with full references please, e.g., book title, edition, and page numbers, it would greatly aid people who wanted to look this, ahem ... "material" up for thems elves.

I suspect that the NEXT news story to cover Scientology related issues could do better for itself than to cut and paste THE biographical line about "Science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard blah blah blah ..." if they had a more accurate picture of L Ron's true talents.

I think it is shame that Gore Vidal never was exposed to L Ron's futurohomosexual pornographic writings - it would have made for another great essay!

As it is, Curious's synopsis of L. Ronography reminds me of Frank Zappa's "Opera" Joe's Garage in which "L. Ron Hoover" runs a rehabilitation prison force where prisoners are repeatedly sodomized by the boss's oversized penis and forced to fellate each other.

Oddly enough, this newest revealation (to my ears), raises Ron many steps up the ladder to the bridge of my esteem! Oh Ron, we hardly knew ye!

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Post by curiosity » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:06 pm

Due to severe time constraints, I will not be able to do this for another two weeks. I'm very surprised that so few critics seem to have read Mission Earth since it is so liberally sprinkled with sexual episodes, and in some ways, reveals Hubbard's sexual attitudes and interests. Here is just one quick quote that goes directly to J. Swift's hypothesis. It is certainly not a Scientology teaching, but it makes one wonder what Hubbard was taught as a young man about Freudian theory:
V.10, p 292-3 9, first hardcover edition: [Being said by a demented doctor to a male character, intended as a satire and dig against Freud. Capitalization in original]: “You will NEVER find any remission of symptoms unless you ride roughshod over your repression and find yourself a nice young man and practice, unremittingly, fellatio.� I stared at him. “…I am giving you pure Freud. Your insanity can be cured only by a life of dedication to making love only to young boys and men—orally, of course.�

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Post by J. Swift » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:10 pm

Thanks curiosity.

That quote made me cringe. It looks like my thesis that Ron was molested and later became a pedophile could be valid. It appears that LRH may have been a closeted gay man with a fetish for Naval uniforms. He may have had marriages and children of convenience as so many gay men did back then. He also may have engaged in massive transferrence via his writing as in his fiction and his statement that Christ was a pedophile.

This makes LRH seem to be a J. Edgar Hoover sort of fellow: A self-hating gay man who obsessed on the sex lives of others and used his powers of surveillance for both voyeurism and blackmail. LRH's detailed checklists were all about lurid blood, sex, crime. It was as if LRH needed to find the guilt in others in order to prove to himself that he was not a filthy pervert. Who knows? Maybe his mother caught him being molested by Commander Thompson? That might explain why Commander Thompson disappeared so quickly from Hubbard's life after dedicatedly spending so much time teaching the youthful Hubbard all about Freud and sex?

This is a glaring omisson in LRH's bio: Commander Thompson takes all of this time and interest in "tutoring" twelve year old Ron in the nuances of Freud and then disappears. Ron never mentions him again except to claim
that he was an expert on Freud at twelve years of age. That bit of nonsense aside, one wonders if Ron's mother caught Commander Thompson in the act of molesting her son? Does LRH's father intervene "for the sake of the US Navy" and let Thompson make a clean getaway? Does LRH feel like a throwaway child whose parents made him wrong for what happened to him? This was 1922 after all.

Maybe this explains why LRH grows up and demands that anyone who come into his "Special Secret Club" called Scientology answer so many questions? Ron wanted all the power. He wanted all of the dirt on everyone and he wanted no one to know anything about him except lies that inflated his image.

Now DM, with all of his tiny custom-made clothes, shoes, and motorcycles, has taken the place of LRH by virture of perhaps an identical psychopathology?

Before we get to LRH's questions, here is my question for all Scientologists:

Why are all of Scientology's leaders morally reprehensible people?



Have you ever lived or worked under an assumed name?
Have you given me your right name?
Are you here for a different purpose than you say?
Have you ever stolen anything?
Have you ever done any shoplifting?
Have you ever forged a signature, cheque, or document?
Have you ever blackmailed anybody?
Have you ever been blackmailed?
Have you ever cheated?
Have you ever smuggled anything?
Have you ever entered a country illegally?
Have you ever been in prison?
Have you ever tried to act normal?
Have you ever indulged in drunkenness?
Have you ever done any reckless driving?
Have you ever hit and run with a car?
Have you ever burglared any place?
Are you guilty of anything?
Have you ever embezzled money?
Do you have a secret you are afraid I'll find out?
Have you ever assaulted anyone?
Have you ever practised cannibalism?
Have you ever been in jail?
Have you ever told lies in Court?
Have you ever been Court Martialed?
Have you ever deserted from a military service?
Have you ever illegally prevented conscription?
Have you ever been a mutineer?
Have you ever had anything to do with pornography?
Have you ever committed arson?
Have you ever been a drug addict?
Have you ever made anyone into a drug addict?
Have you ever peddled dope?
Have you ever PDH'd anyone?
Have you had any dealings with stolen goods?
Have you ever divulged government secrets for pay or political reasons?
Do you have a police record?

Have you ever raped anyone or been raped?
Have you ever been involved in an abortion?
Have you ever committed adultery?
Have you ever committed bigamy?
Have you ever practised homosexuality?
Have you ever practised or assisted intercourse between women?
Have you ever had intercourse with a member of your family?
Have you ever been sexually unfaithful?
Have you ever practiced sex with animals?
Have you ever publicly exhibited yourself sexually?
Have you ever hidden to watch sexual practices?
Have you ever practised sodomy?
Have you ever consistently made a practice of sex with a member of your own sex?
Have you ever slept with a member of a race of another color?


Have you ever committed culpable homicide?
Have you ever committed a justifiable crime?
Have you ever bombed anything?
Have you ever murdered anyone?
Have you ever hidden a body?
Have you ever attempted suicide?
Have you ever kidnapped anyone?

Have you ever done any illicit diamond buying?
Have you ever acted as an informer?
Have you ever betrayed anyone for money?
Have you ever betrayed a trust?
Have you ever betrayed an employer's trust?
Have you ever speculated with somebody else's funds?
Have you ever knowingly implicated an innocent person?
Have you ever withheld a communication concerning a crime or misdemeanor committed by another?

Have you ever threatened anyone with a firearm?
Have you ever been in illegal possession of firearms?

Are my questions embarrassing?

Have you ever been paid for giving evidence?
Have you ever acted as an informer?
Have you ever injured somebody's reputation by knowingly spreading lies?
Have you ever injured somebody by spading tales you knew were true?
Have you ever destroyed something belonging to someone else?
Have you ever plotted to destroy a member of your family?
Have you ever had a member of your family in an insane asylum?
Have you ever been pronounced insane?
Have you ever been a spy for an organization?
Have you ever looted any place?
Have you ever stolen from the armed forces?
Have you ever conspired with anyone?
Have you ever had anything to do with Communism or been a Communist?
Have you practised fraud?
Have you ever been a newspaper reporter?

Are you hiding anything?
Have you ever had intercourse after placing another under alcohol or drugs?
Have you ever used hypnotism to procure sex or money?
Do you collect sexual objects?
Have you ever ill-treated children?
Have you ever practised sex with children?
Have you ever practised masturbation?
Have you ever taken money for giving anyone sexual intercourse?
Have you ever sexually coerced a servant?
Do you have any bastards?
Are you withholding anything?
Have you ever had any connection with a brothel?
Have you ever coerced anyone into giving you sex?
Have you had anything to do with a baby farm?


Have you ever killed or crippled animals for pleasure?
Have you ever crippled a person?
Have you ever been a spy for the police?
Have you ever pretended a disability?
Are you afraid of the police?
Have you ever committed a misdemeanor?
Have you ever committed a felony?
Have you ever committed a capital offense?

Have you ever done anything you are afraid the police may find out?

Have you ever falsified the books in any firm you worked for?
Have you ever criminally avoided taxes?
Have you ever counterfeited money?
Have you ever fraudulently altered or issued certificates or documents?
Have you ever obtained money under false pretences?
Have you ever done anything your mother would be ashamed to find out?
How could you help yourself generally?

What represents yourself?
How could you help your family?
What represents your family?

How do you feel about sex?

What represents (the Org (others (a group to you?
How could you help (the Org? (others? (a group?
How could you help mankind?
Have you ever controlled people?
How do you feel about being controlled?
What is Communism?
Do you feel Communism has some good points?
Have you ever been a member of the Communist Party or any associated group?
Have you ever been a member of any group with similar ideals as the Communist Party?
Do you know any Communists personally?

Have you ever injured Dianetics or Scientology?
Have you committed any overts on a Scientology Organization?
Have you wronged anyone in a Scientology Organization?
Have you ever stolen anything from a Scientology Organization?
Do you have anything in your possession that you shouldn't have?
Do you have any overts on L. Ron Hubbard?
Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about L. Ron Hubbard?
Do you have any overts on Mary Sue Hubbard?
Have you done bad things to leaders in Scientology or Scientology orgs?
Have you withheld anything from executives in Scientology?

Have you sought to get any staff member dismissed?
Have you knowingly planned not to do your job?
Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Mary Sue Hubbard?
Have you ever injured any Scientologist?
Have you ever had any unkind thoughts about Scientologists?
Have you ever betrayed Scientology?
Do you know of any secret plans against Scientology?
Do you plan to steal a Scientology Organization?
Have you ever taken money to injure Scientology?
Do you deserve to be helped by Scientology?
Have you ever used Dianetics or Scientology to force sex upon anyone?
Have you ever falsified a claim for money to be repaid to you or to be paid you?
Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientology Organization?
Do you know of any plans to injure a Scientologist?
Are you upset about this Security Check?
What question in this check shouldn't I ask you again?
Have you withheld from answering anything because it might injure someone?
What unkind thoughts have you thought while I have been doing this check?
Have any of your answers here been designed to injure another?
Are you upset about this Security Check?
Security Check of Scientology Students

Policy Letter, June 29, 1961

Are you coming on this course in order to get away from someone or something?
Are you here to get into something? to find out whether Scientology works? to prove that Scientology can't help you?
Are you coming on this course with the intention of killing off your body? with the intention of spinning? or going insane?
Are you presently taking tranquilizers? drugs? or medication of any sort?
Have you had sex with any other student? a staff member?
Are you trying to get another student to have sex with you? or a staff member?
Have you coughed or distracted others during a lecture?
Have you criticised this course, or the organization, verbally or in writing to non-Scientologists?
Have you been thinking unkind or critical, thoughts about your preclear? L. Ron Hubbard? your instructor? your auditor? other students? staff members?
Are you in disagreement with any of the stable data of Scientology?
Have you secretly violated any course rule, or regulation? passes on restricted data of Scientology to unauthorized persons? tried to give Scientology a bad name?
Are you making any Scientologist guilty of anything?
Have you done anything that would discredit Ron or Mary Sue Hubbard, or your instructors, by reason of their having trained you?
Is there anything that L. Ron Hubbard, or your instructors should mistrust you for that you haven't told them about?
Are you in communication with someone who understands more about Scientology than L. Ron Hubbard?
Is anyone hostile to Scientology assisting you financially on this course?
Is anyone here counting on you to keep a secret for him?
Have you any feeling of "injured innocence" at having been asked these questions?
Have you been critical of the data or quality of the tapes?
Have you ever written and then destroyed critical messages addressed to L. Ron Hubbard?
How do you feel about these questions?
Auditor's Sec Check

Policy Letter July 7, 1961

Have you ever permitted a preclear to take control of the session?
Have you ever startled a preclear when he was on a comm lag?
Have you ever permitted a preclear to have secrets from you?
Have you ever blamed the preclear for running over time?
Have you ever blamed the Director of Processing or L. Ron Hubbard for your preclear's case not advancing?
Have you ever failed to flatten a process when it was still biting?
Have you ever jammed a preclear into a one-way flow and left him stuck there in it?
Have you ever audited badly?
Do you regard auditing as a punishment?
Do you feel that auditing is too good for psychotics, or cripples or criminals?
Have you ever been distressed because of a preclear's physical or mental pain under auditing?
Have you ever stolen from a preclear?
Have you ever stolen another auditor's preclear?
Is there any question the Director of Processing or L. Ron Hubbard should have asked you and hasn't?
Do you hope you don't be found out?
Have you ever avoided receiving auditing yourself?
Have you ever mistrusted your E-Meter?
Is there anything mysterious to you about an E-Meter?
Have you ever let a preclear control you?
Do you think selling auditing is really a swindle?
Do you think there is anything wrong with having your own privacy invaded?
Have you ever sought to prove that auditing would not work?
Have you ever done anything to slow down L. Ron Hubbard's research?
Have you ever wasted auditing time?
What do you wish you hadn't done?
Are Scientologists', or Ron's goals really false?
Are you upset by this security check?
/
Last edited by J. Swift on Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by butwehave11 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:15 am

You know I do remember a quote by L. Ron Hubbard that stated that all people who criticized scientology had serious crimes in their past, maybe these questions are quite ironic then. Because according to Ron's theology then he is guilty of aa lot of the things that he accuses people of.

This is actually turing out to be the most interesting psychologically of most of the threads I've seen all year, not the most popular, many are afraid of the stigma that we're just trying to dig up dirt that isn't their. However I do believe it is there, everytime I've asked for information, for true evidence, it miraculously shows up in the form of a quote from hubbards that shines a new light on it. It's like playing a game of connect the dots, the picture was always there, but until you drew the lines, you didn't really know.
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Post by allergic to shellfish » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:18 pm

Within Addmisions I think there is evidence to support the theroy that he had homosexual leanings.
Within Admissions he makes much of his impotence and blames this primarily on medication and Polly. He expresses his feelings for Jack Parsons during a stream of conciousness in Admissions
LRH wrote

d) Any distaste I may have for Jack Parsons originated in a psychic experiment. Such distaste is foolish. He is my friend and comrade in arms.
e) Sexual feeling has been depressed by several things amounting to a major impasse.
Note the comment about Parsons immediately moves onto a comment about his impotence. One thing leads to another?
We know Parsons was bisexual, we know Sara Northrup was with Parsons before Hubbard. How did that transition take place, under what circumstances?
We know that the Sex Magik rituials took place (even $cn can not deny that).
So we know and can be sure that Hubbard watched Parsons having sex. Ritualist sex at that, where Hubbard watched and took notes? :twisted:
Did Hubbard have a homosexual relationship with Parsons?
Did he feel a sexual attraction to Parsons?
I do believe he had homosexual feelings that he fought most if not all of his life with.
I think the Sex MAgick/ Jack PArsons/ Sara Northrup period of his life was the closest HE ever came to knowing himself and being honest with himself, but in the end it was too much and he attempted to brainwash and change his thinking. Admissions is the beginning of that process.
Again, I do think it is highly possible that Hubbard was abused as a child, but the BS on the $cn website is just that BS :bs: .
It is absolutly right that even the official biog info is scrutinised. One reason why they have a young child (LRH) participating in adult activities, thoughts and studies is to reaffirm there own belief that there is no such thing as a child, just a small adult. This subtly introduces the concept that it is OK to discuss concepts of a sexual nature with children as young as 12 and to whom you are not related. IMO? That is very wrong, very dangerous and very irresposible on the part of the Church of Scientology.

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Post by butwehave11 » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:50 pm

Also I believe that NAMBLA has as one of it's tenets that children are as emotionally developed and sexually mature as adults.
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Post by J. Swift » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:11 pm

I have long interpreted dreams and my opinion is that in terms of Freudian-Jungian dream interpretation, OT III looks like LRH, as an adult drug user, entering his unconscious and seeing in the symbolic language of drug-dream the terrible sexual molestation incidents of his youth.

Read psychologically, OT III is telling, particularly when we consider that LRH arrived at it during a period of heavy drug use in 1967. Xenu captures people: This is Commander Thompson capturing young LRH. Then Xenu throws everyone into a volcano and h-bombs them. This is Commander Thompson raping LRH; the h-bombs are the psychic and physical violence of Thompson's orgasms. The BT's represent Thompson's semen, the feeling of which LRH cannot get rid off for the rest of his life. The billions of spermatoza in Thompson's ejaculate haunted Ron like the multiplied soul of his rapist forever clinging to him. In a drug dream, the sperm of his rapist becomes Ron's BT's. The volcano itself is a phallic symbol and the hot lava the ejaculate.

*****

In 1950 LRH was still unconscious to the extent of his trauma and was still seeking for his own cure. The original cover of Dianetics offers us a clue: The cover was a series of dots that were in an ordered form. Read psychologically, LRH at age 39 has "connected the dots" of his occultic work and has successfully plagiarized and synthesized Freud, Korzybski, and others into his deeply flawed masterwork:

Image


In the course of the evolution of Dianetics and Scientology, the cover of Dianetics would eventually be used to portray the unconscious symbolic language of Hubbard's tortured psyche:

Image


In Freudian-Jungian terms, we could say that LRH eventually transformed his supreme moment of shame into a symbolic and literary victory on the cover of Dianetics. However, the cost would be that all Scientologists, at a level of which they are not aware, would be auditing Ron's case forever in the closed system of Scientology. It is only after Scientologists become Clear that they can approach the trauma and shock of Incident II of OT III and audit the defining trauma of Hubbard's life. As a Black Magus, Hubbard would have achieved supreme occult transformation: He turned lead into gold! This is not insubstantial when we consider the Dark Triumph of L. Ron Hubbard called Scientology. "All men shall become my slaves," Hubbard infamously decreed in his Admissions.

*****
Read the accounts of women who have been raped and mine is not an inconceivable suggestion in terms of an unconscious symbolic transformation of trauma into symbolic form. There is a great deal of revulsion and disgust in rape victims surrounding the orgasm and semen of their attacker and LRH, as a young boy who appears to have been sexually molested, would have experienced this same revulsion. This is why Thompson's ejaculate could have been transformed into BT's by LRH's unconscious.

I suggest that OT III is LRH's dream symbolism of his earlier sexually molestation. What Hubbard saw in Las Palmas in 1967 in dreams while under the influence of "pinks, grays, and lots of rum," was the first rape perpetrated upon him by Thompson. Because LRH had so repressed this event, because it had so aberrated him, he experienced the symbolism of this rape dream as relating to the singular most powerful event in the world ever -- and it was for him as his molestation defined his life and psyche. However, Hubbard did not cog on his own dream language and instead universalized it as OT III. In other words, all OT's III's are auditing Ron's case which Ron unconsciously transformed into Incident II.

When LRH was dying he was screaming for someone to get the BT's off him. Until the end of his life LRH was traumatized by his molestation. Even his own processing could not help him. I would say that this was because missed the significance of the dream he had in Las Palmas in 1967. This terrifying dream was his unconscious struggling to work through repressed trauma. Ron could not confront it and so universalized it as the event that all OT's must work through.

Essentially, LRH's basic-basic was the first terrible time that Commander Thompson sexually molested him. Pain and unconsciousness were involved, and, I would not rule out drugs or alcohol because Thompson was a pedophile. In fact, I think what LRH describes as Incident I could have been what he experienced under the influence of the drugs or alcohol Thompson gave him before the first actual event took place. Incident I has the quality of a drug-induced detachment and disocciation. It is merely looking at drug-based random hallucinations. Ron could have been drugged by Thompson and have had the feeling of being detached from his body. Then when the actual molestation occurs, it has the force and trauma of his world being destroyed by a terrible man whom his unconscious would later symbolize as Xenu.

Can I have ex OT's think about this: Based upon the analysis I have offered above, could auditing OT III and above now seem to you to be about telepathically auditing an adult who was molested as a child? You are repeatedly and telepathically contacting ephemeral entities: Could it be that BT's were Hubbard's unconscious symbolic "ghosts" of the molestations he suffered as child and as a teenager?

Are OT's, finally, exorcising LRH of the men who molested him? Was Hubbard using the OT's to audit his case and identify with his great lifelong pain? Are the OT levels a massive psychic transferrence on LRH's part?


/////
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Post by J. Swift » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:11 pm

One reason why they have a young child (LRH) participating in adult activities, thoughts and studies is to reaffirm there own belief that there is no such thing as a child, just a small adult. This subtly introduces the concept that it is OK to discuss concepts of a sexual nature with children as young as 12 and to whom you are not related. IMO? That is very wrong, very dangerous and very irresposible on the part of the Church of Scientology.
That is spot on. Scientology, via LRH teaching, expects that children are fully mature Thetans, i.e. adults, in a new meat body. They expect children to be able to act as adults. Yet any parent knows that children are not adults. They are children and need to be loved, taught, protected, and educated. They are vulnerable and need to be sheltered, fed, and cared for because they don't come into the world perpared to go on post in the Sea Org at ten years of age -- and DM is now taking kids that are that young. The "Thetan" idea is a cover for brainwashing. DM knows that the younger he can trap a child or a teen the more brainwashing he can exert. All cults know this and target the young because they are vulnerable.

The argument of both Scientology and NAMBLA is that children are capable of consent. In the case of NAMBLA, pedophiles argue that four year old children can consent to sex. NAMBLA members argue this to justify sexually molesting children and ruining their lives. This is disgusting and perverted and it is the reason why pedophiles need to be identified and imprisoned. Scientology, OTOH, wants to brainwash young children and turn them into lifetime slaves of the cult in Sea Org. Scientology says that a ten year old can consent to a billion year contract of service. This is equally as disgusting as NAMBLA becuase it is psychological rape that preys on young children and teenagers.

It is fair to compare NAMBLA and Scientology in this regard.

In my thesis, Commander Thompson was an occultist and a pedophile. He was what LRH later became: An evil debuached Satanist who ruined people's life for his own gratification, sexual and otherwise. It is clear from eyewitness testimony that LRH was a sadist who enjoyed inflicting misery and pain on others at his whim.

LRH was a victim who became an abuser when he grew up. Having been molested traumatized him. Then he was humiliated in public as a teenager during an exam because his testicle hung low as he states in his Admissions. The psychic pain LRH suffered when he was young warped him and he could only come to terms with it by means that damaged other people and continues to damage other people.

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Post by allergic to shellfish » Sat Mar 04, 2006 10:37 am

j. Swift wrote
I suggest that OT III is LRH's dream symbolism of his earlier sexually molestation. What Hubbard saw in Las Palmas in 1967 in dreams while under the influence of "pinks, grays, and lots of rum," was the first rape perpetrated upon him by Thompson. Because LRH had so repressed this event, because it had so aberrated him, he experienced the symbolism of this rape dream as relating to the singular most powerful event in the world ever -- and it was for him as his molestation defined his life and psyche. However, Hubbard did not cog on his own dream language and instead universalized it as OT III. In other words, all OT's III's are auditing Ron's case which Ron unconsciously transformed into Incident II.


Things to consider
1)As a child Ron kept animated and lively journals, paticulaly when 'on voyage'.
On the trip in 1923 from Seattle to Virgina via the Panama Canal where Ron first met Thompson, the following is the ONLY entry for the ENTIRE trip.
'If obviously pushed upon, I supposed I could write a couple of thousands [sic] words on that trip . . . But I spare you.'
What does that tell you? He is unable to share ANY details of his trip where both before and later he is filled with vobosity.

2) When Ron wrote OT III he was in LAS PALMAS. It is possible that LAS PALMAS was a port of call in 1924.
In the OTIII material LRH underlines HAWAII and LAS PALMAS. Therefore the locations we can assume are important - the locations are the bits that are real and not a metaphore?

3)In OTIII LRH splits the world into two via The Atlantic on one side and the PAcific on the other. What seperates and conects these two? The Panama Canal. Which LRH transversed with Commander Thompson in 1923.

4) In OTIII the people who were taken to the HAWAII volcanoes were already boxed. The LAS PALMAS ones were packaged there. I am sure there is significance there and would ask for some help, suggestions?

5)Commander Thompson does not appear in public access naval records. If he was a peodophile and eventually got caught maybe the navy would have quietly chucked him out ( in 1929?, OTIII makes reference to "six years of battle"?) and removed trace of him in service, declared him as classified?

J. Swift, I think you are right. Something happened on that trip. Sir you are a genius :bowdown:

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Post by butwehave11 » Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:30 pm

He may have been talked into the molestation in las palmas, while he may have submitted at hawaii.
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Post by Thelma » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:47 pm

I've been thinking about LRon's anti-psychiatry stance and his disbelief that there can be physical causes for mental disorders. Was his belief, then, that all psychiatric illness came from outside forces?

LRon had an unstable mind. If anyone was in need of psychiatric intervention, he was. A history of childhood sexual abuse could certainly explain, at least in part, where some of his own psychosis came from. Would it also explain his need to assign mental disorders to something other than the person's own health? To an outside influence?

This would take the blame of his own issues away from him and put them onto the source; something outside of him, done to him and not from within him, such as a chemical imbalance or other physical cause.

I don't think I'm explaining myself very well. Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say :?

edit: May it also explain the church's strange obsession with psychiatrists and sex with patients/patient rape?

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butwehave11
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Post by butwehave11 » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:11 pm

No actually you are making sense, a pyschiatrist may have been able to eventually see what was going on in Hubbards mind, and since hubbard didn't want to deal with it, he may have grown a hatred for psychiatrists in general, because many times victims of abuse don't want to talk about their experiances at all, and therefore resist therapy. Self-auditing may have been the way Hubbard thought he could safely deal with his issues without having to go into anything painful, because who could audit him? Hubbard may felt great anger towwards his aggressor, but since he may have not been able to identify him, because of possibly blocked memories, he may have felt the need to apply the blame upon something else, therefore never having to deal with what where his problems.
I fart in your general direction!

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:45 pm

I am re-opening this thread with a post I made on Tory's thread "APOSTATE". She had noticed that scientologists use this as a "loaded word" to discredit critics and I may have found the why! viewtopic.php?p=166941#166941

The information I refer to about Hubbard's relationship with Thompson and Ellis is on the 1st 2 pages here on this thread.

Ladybird


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Tory, I think you really hit on something!

Knowing how important word clearing derivations is to scientologists, I ran "apostate" through an online etymology dictionary. Guess who showed up?

Snake Thompson's (Hubbards childhood "mentor"/ "special friend") favorite pederasty promoting psychologist HAVELOCK ELLIS!

There is an excellent thread on the importance of "Snake" and Ellis called "Was L. Ron Hubbard Sexually Molested as a Child?" I will revive that thread or you can read it here:
viewtopic.php?t=16702

Without going into the whole story...Havelock Ellis is mentioned in Dianetics and in Hubbards Affirmations...and was an associate of Thompson's...the plot thickens!


So Tory is right that scientologists use the term "apostate" with alot more mean-spiritedness than the word itself means in common usage. You know every single upper level or trained scientologist is using this word with Ellis's connotations.

It also explains why OSA is so quick to accuse apostates of being sexual perverts and child molestors.


Ladybird




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The Online Etymology Dictionary
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apostate Look up apostate at Dictionary.com

1340, "one who forsakes his religion or faith," from L.L. apostata, from Gk. apostasia "defection, desertion, rebellion," from apostenai "to defect," lit. "to stand off," from apo- "away from" (see apo-) + stenai "to stand." Used in non-religious situations (politics, etc.) from 1362.
renegade Look up renegade at Dictionary.com
1583, "apostate," probably (with change of suffix) from Sp. renegado, originally "Christian turned Muslim," from M.L. renegatus, prop. pp. of renegare "deny" (see renege). General sense of "turncoat" is from 1665. The form renegate, directly from M.L., is attested in Eng. from c.1375.
pervert (v.) Look up pervert at Dictionary.com
c.1300 (trans.), "to turn someone aside from a right religious belief to a false or erroneous one," from O.Fr. pervertir, from L. pervertere "corrupt, turn the wrong way, turn about," from per- "away" + vertere "to turn" (see versus). The noun is 1661, from the verb. Replaced native froward, which embodies the same image. The noun is attested from 1661, "one who has forsaken a doctrine or system regarded as true, apostate;" psychological sense of "one who has a perversion of the sexual instinct" is attested from 1897 (Havelock Ellis), originally esp. of homosexuals. Perv, short for sexual pervert (n.), is first recorded 1944.

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