Charles Manson was a Scientologist - There was a

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Re: New False Accusation

Post by lermanet_com » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:11 pm

SuzanneMarie wrote:Arnie Lerma has made an ass of himself again, by posting that Tory Christman used to have my job, and she was better at it.

I don't think so. Not unless she's been bottle feeding baby animals and giving sick ones their medication.
Oh my dear I beg to differ, I did not make an ass out of myself there, you must be referring to my last radio show HERE

http://media.putfile.com/Arnie-Lerma-on ... ng-Radio86
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Post by Ladybird » Sat Aug 12, 2006 10:35 pm

Ladybird
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:03 pm

"Oh forgodssake, Do I Have to point out to you in agonizing detail that the number of approved e-meter users MIGHT PERHAPS have something to do with the number of active scientologists?

What Planet are you deluded adherents living on???>It sure ain't Earth (aka Teegeeack).Ladybird[/quote]

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2006
:
Oh forgodssake, Do I Have to point out to you in agonizing detail that the number of e-meter users MIGHT PERHAPS have something to do with the number of active scientologists?
Yes you do need to this Ladybird because Scientologists have problems with MEST arithmetic. In Scientology arithmetic, 25,000 is 12,000,000.

BTW, LB, yours is the best figure I have ever seen to correctly estimate the number of active Scientologists. CoS will not allow any Scientologist to audit without a current silver cert.

Scientology's own greed has led us to the truth: There are 25,000 active Scientologists in the world.

Questions:

1. Do Staff and SO have to pay to have their meters certed or is silver certing done at no charge for staff members?

2. What percentage of 25,000 active Scientologists are Staff and Sea Org?

3. What percentage of 25,000 active Scientologists are going the training route to reduce their cost of services?

These are extremely critical questions as they will help me to calculate some very important numbers.

...J. Swift
_________________

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Post by Ladybird » Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:03 pm

I am pretty sure Suzanne knows more than I do, since she asked about silver certs, (which is is insider lingo) but as I have explained above the fact that there are approximately 25,000 current silver certed e.meters all of which are registered and tracked by the cult means that there are maybe around 12,000 active, practicing scientologists. (I am pretty sure at least half of them are on ethics lines, or "black tagged" on OT VII...etc.)

Back on topic, many people have wondered how cults such as Mansons and Hubbards can manipulate people to do crazy things.

Many people have theories, I suggest looking in to them, don't just make up your own and decide that "what is true for you" is true.

Here is one of my many favorites:
[Extract from "Information Disease: Have Cults created a New Mental
Illness?"
by Flo Conway and Jim Siegelman. Science Digest January 1982
pp86-92]

"A very effective thought control technique could also be worked out from
Scientology, which could be used to make individuals into willing slaves."
-L Ron Hubbard

[description of the authors' research into the long term effects of
involvement with various cults]

Two groups in particular showed signs of inflicting the most
severe physical, mental and emotional harm on their members: the Hare
Krishna and the Church of Scientology. Among all groups, Krishna and
Scientology tied with the Unification Church in reports of physical
deprivation. Their members reported getting the least sleep per night and
having the most deficient daily diet.
...
The rituals of the Church of Scientology bear little resemblance
to those of any other cult. With its extensive program of "training
regimens" and expensive "auditing" counseling, Scientology operates
successfully as both religion and mass-marketed therapy. According to
those who responded to our survey, however, Scientology's may be the most
debilitating set of rituals of any cult in America. Onetime Scientologists
who answered our questionnaire reported that it took them, on the average,
more than two years (26 months) before they felt fully rehabilitated- more
than *twice* the time of those from other major cults [Hare Krishna: 11.1
months, Divine Light Mission: 12.3 months].

Moreover, former Scientologists surpassed all others in reported
incidents of physical punishment while in the group (35 percent) and, upon
departure, they claimed the highest rates of sexual dysfunction (22
percent), violent outbursts (28 percent) [average is 14 percent],
hallucinations and delusions (28 percent) [average is also 14 percent] and
suicidal or self-destructive tendencies (44 percent) [average is 21%]. On
average, former Scientologists surveyed reported more than *twice* the
combined negative effects of all the other cult groups.

Ironically, although claiming the most severe long-term effects,
former Scientologists surveyed reported the *lowest* total of hours
per week spent in ritual and indoctrination. This apparent discrepancy
seems to support opinions we have expressed earlier that, in combination,
Scientology's training regimens and "auditing" counseling sessions
(conducted on an E-meter, a kind of crude lie detector) may have an
intensifying and compounding effect on the nervous system that goes beyond
that of simpler cult rituals. And that, *hour for hour, Scientology's
techniques may be more than twice as damaging as those of any other major
cult in America!* In our view, this could be a vital direction for further
research by scientists working in the field of neurophysiology.

"The overall impact? Devastating!" wrote one ex-member. "I still
tend to view the world in Scientological terms: 'Truth is only an
illusion.' 'People are robots.' 'People are basically insane and dangerous.'"
Another was even more bitter: "The only thing I got out of this scam was
deep suicidal depression coinciding with the fear of death within five
years after separation. We were told that ninety percent of all 'refund
cases' eventually commit suicide."

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Re: Sylvia Stanard

Post by Roan » Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:10 pm

friendly nature wrote:
SuzanneMarie wrote:
So whose e-meter was at the Spahn ranch, Arnie? Don't know?
Contact the people who do silver certification on meters and give them the serial number. Inquiring minds want to know why are you covering up this piece of vital data.
A passage like this is what made me almost certain that SuzanneMarie was simply the 'Pitbull' persona with a different nic when I first saw SuzanneMarie postings.
A small crew of pasty-faced, ne'er-do-wells are holed up in the Seattle Org feverishly trying to tread water as "SuzanneMarie" gets repeatedly dunked and held under in the ocean of truth that is OCMB.

:lol:
“The failure to condemn an activity is indeed, an offer of tacit approval.
All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.” — Edmund Burke

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Post by programmer_guy » Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:44 pm

Arnie,

That's a good radio program (your interview). Thanks for posting the link.

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Post by lermanet_com » Sun Aug 13, 2006 12:01 am

programmer_guy wrote:Arnie,

That's a good radio program (your interview). Thanks for posting the link.
Thanks PG, I hadnt posted it in ages, thought everybody heard it.. Oftimes I listen to ones Ive done and thought damn I wished i thought of this or that.. in response to a question... I have found its also a function of how much the interviewer knows, how thorough their understanding is of how deceptive scientology is, and illustrates a line some lawyer told me years ago that caused me to look at any inquiry differently..

"Knowing the right question to ask is just
as important as having the right answer"
\

Scientology claims to have all the answers,
but they dont let let scientlogists's ask any questions!
Much less answer them!
Do you THINK scientology works?
Then read [url=http://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=20255&start=285]THIS PAGE[/url] here on XENU.NET

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Re: Whose E-meter was at Spahn Ranch?

Post by Ladybird » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:14 am

SuzanneMarie wrote:WHOSE E-METER WAS AT SPAHN RANCH? This is not an off topic question. There is a simple way to find out the answer. Do so.

Every e-meter has a serial number inside of it, and a registered owner.
From my own recall and after asking around...I don't think e-meters were required to be registered until the mid to late 80's.

I bought my first Mark V (the wooden one with the blue dial) second hand from an oldtimer OT in the late 60's ... I don't recall any registration or problems. I doubt the e-meter at Spahn ranch in the 60's was registered either.

I talked to some ex-SO who worked at Gold and HEM and to the best of our knowledge DM got all AROC (Anal retentive obbessive compulsive) in the late 90's. That is when silver certs and tracking owners, buyers and sellers got serious.

Today, any auditing done MUST be on an appoved, silver certed meter or it is not valid, and you WILL be sent to ethics for buying or selling a used meter whether it is certed or not. Check the Kobragrams on E-bay or google.

Your demand to know the serial number and silver cert of a meter from the 1960's Manson family is a red herring, Suzanne Marie. It also dates you as young and lkely born in the cult.

Who were you in your past life, SM?

Ladybird

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Post by clamdigrr » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:21 am

Ladybird wrote:
Your demand to know the serial number and silver cert of a meter from the 1960's Manson family is a red herring, Suzanne Marie. It also dates you as young and lkely born in the cult.

Who were you in your past life, SM?

Ladybird
Now this is interesting, Ladybird. Thank you.

You see, Suzanne Marie was just over in the "Destroyed" thread claiming she met Quinten Hubbard - and was apparantly old enough to ascertain his sexual identity. This does NOT add up with someone asking about certs - because surely she should know that it wouldn't have been relative in the timeframe she asked. She was fed the wrong info if she didn't come up with this stinker on her own.

OSA - letting Suzanne Marie fail and flail - so you don't have to.
Go on now, go,
Walk out the door,
Just turn around now,
'Cause you're not welcome anymore...

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Post by programmer_guy » Sun Aug 13, 2006 6:35 am

Ladybird,

Check your PMs. :)

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Post by Ladybird » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:19 am

Back in the 70's and early 80's HEM (Hubbard E-meter Manufaturing) was located in big blue in the first floor corner office on the Catalina street corner of the "horse shoe" entrance. Later HEM was moved to Gold at the INT base in Hemet. I think E-meters sent in for "silver certs" still go to and are sent from big blue, as no scientologist is supposed to know where Gold and Hem and INT are actually located.

The whole world knows and pictures are available all over the Internet, but just like the OT levels, DM thinks it is important to hide this well known information.

I suppose we should feel sorry for Dainty Davey the assthmatic dwarf terror midget because he was raised in the cult and his loony scientologist dad turned him over at a young age to become L. Ron Hubbards "protege' aka catamite. The poor kid never even finished 8th grade, and I don't imagine the bed time fairy tales Hubbard told him included "The Emporer's New Clothes."

See this thread for some excellent research and photos of young Davey with LRH and young Ronny with His guru Commander Snake Thompson:

Was L. Ron Hubbard Sexually Molested as a Child?
viewtopic.php?t=16702&start=0&postdays= ... used+child

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Post by Tamaritha » Sun Aug 13, 2006 8:33 am

Furthermore, asking whether the e-meter that existed in the 60s and no longer in use has a registered serial number is pointless.

Silver certs are only lists of e-meters currently in use.
That's what you get when you bring Postulation into a MEST fight.

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MAGIC

Post by lermanet_com » Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:46 pm

LeVenda's book gets pretty deep by page 120... I have learned a few things though... that give some ex members goosebumps


In my efforts to deconstruct Scientology, I read a bunch of parsons
and crowley's stuff, and the occultic beliefs of the nazi's and yes
there are great similarities but from all I can tell, in the 1940's
for Hubbard and crowley, all this rubbish was nothing else than a way
some lads figured out how to get laid back in the late 40's

Though there is considerable evidence to suggest Hubbard created in
Scientology a machine based entirely upon Crowley's and others ( as
used by the Nazi SS, occultic methods.
see http://www.lermanet.com/scientology-and-occult/
however some new patterns have come to mind..
The double triangles and 8-8008 etc.. the levels that start at ZERO..

For example,

When a sorcerer is going to invoke whatever - spirits, demons whatnot,
he will often use smoking incense.. so there is a whispy form that the
spirit can manipulate.. or perhaps a little blood in a pool of
water..it can move around and communicate...or an animal, or a
person.. the creepier the better as the setting helps invoke the
occult experience...

The magician will draw a large triangle on the floor, or two And in
the points of this triangle he places the 'vessels' for the spirits to
use as a medium for manifesting in this world.

Inside the triangle is drawn a circle, the magician stands in the
circle, and as long as the circle remains unbroken, the spirits cannot
harm the magician.

When a person enters scientology he has entered Hubbard the magicians
triangle.

Stories I'm hearing of the levels of personality disorder amongst
OT7's.. confirms this as a plausibility. And their own (tm) Letterhead
confirms the rest,

Hubbard used scientologists and tried to make them his ' vessels...'

However, and this is a most important invocation, oops,I meant
distinction:

The circle has been broken

and now the demons/spirits AND the vessels themselves
will tear scientology to shreds.

It is done.

So shall it be.
Do you THINK scientology works?
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Post by 'Alert' » Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:47 am

Arnie wrote:Hubbard used scientologists and tried to make them his ' vessels...'
The more I read about 'possessions' and 'transference' and alike, the more validity arrives that hubbards goal was to 'empty the vessel' of people for one reason of another. There's plenty of conjecture to whether its was for an ET interiorisation or a demonic entity that hubbard called his 'Guardian/Empress' as the pay off for his suspected 'deal', but I guess it's rather hard to know for sure becuase people that were upper bridge give different accounts but have similarities of losing their 'self' in the process and only after they had escaoed the delusion/illusion of the 'tech' did they again start to recoupe what had been drained from them by hubbards 'technology'.
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

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Post by Fanboy The Great And... » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:56 am

In black magic, you can use other people's souls and lives to empower your rituals, but you quickly reach a point of diminishing returns - something taken never has the power of something freely given, which is the key difference between black and white rotes.


Thanks! I've FINALLY managed to reach a key understanding about Lafayette Ron Hubbard's final decades.

He was offering the souls of the people he managed to fool and their empty vessels in exchange for power - power over the people around him, power to control his own burgeoning insanity, and power to contact the racial memory banks.

He probably reached the banks sometime during/before he passed through the "Wall of Fire." No doubt his question was selfish. Something along the lines of, "How can I live forever?" "How can I ensure my legacy lives on?" "How can I stamp my name into history?" would have been what he looked for.

However, he wasn't 'pure' when he contacted the racial memory; his own perceptions and desires corrupted the impressions he recieved and eventually drove him even more insane and convinced him that the best way to reach his goals was the channeling of power from demonic pacts in exchange for souls/bodies, probably both.

And he went too far.

By all accounts, his SERIOUS deterioration happened in the early '70's - just after the pictures which dot the walls of every org happened. This is a danger with a black magician who goes too far. Black rote is BAD, but it FEELS good. The skill in black magic is not in how well you can use it; it's in how well you can RESIST using it until you need to - and how well you walk the line in judging when your own decision-making process about 'need to' is corrupted.

From this standpoint, it's no wonder that LRH started deteriorating so quickly - he hit the 'wall' whereby his withered soul could no longer accept the power he was offered. Because his sould couldn't accept the power he needed to maintain his physical form, mental state, and network of willing slaves, he frantically offered more and more, insisting as a cover that "expansion is everything, the stats are EVERYTHING." He refused to understand that it was HE who was having the problem, that he would no longer be able to avoid paying the price, that he was 'bringing it in' on himself - he forgot the whole of the law.


There's always a price to be paid, and the harder you try to avoid it, the more it rebounds. If LRH had been able to maintain his control, if he had kept the expansion of Scientology on a pace equal to that in the '50's and '60's instead of expanding it in a frantic attempt to maintain his power , and if he hadn't been betrayed in the end by DM's greed and jealousy, the CofS would probably still be a going concern today.

A bit off-topic in the Manson issue, I know, but it was a sudden cognition and I felt like sharing it. :mrgreen:
"Of course he went by Ron; who would have
taken a guy named Lafayette seriously?"

"Scientology is only about convincing the able they're crippled,
and lying to the crippled with the promise of making them able."

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Post by Don Carlo » Mon Aug 14, 2006 7:01 am

Fanboy, are you being ironic about the demonic pact or do you believe Hubbard had seekrit powerz?

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