You are right about the "you see"s. He said it soo often it used to completely annoy me - even as a devoted Scieno.

- Itsaline

And "you see" you were NEVER SUPPOSED TO NOTICE

related to this, This is why I have found Robert Monroe's meditative home study tapes are sometimes so effective, as you practice creating trance states ( and enjoying the discovery of rummaging through your own subconscious, or whatever) their mere use, returns to the user, the ability to command and control their own "trance" states.

ONCE a being retakes control of his own trance state, all programming invoked by anyone else, during covertly invoked trance states, falls away.. much to the incredible relief of the participant and much to the ire of scientology.

I recammend THE GATEWAY SERIES, the first tape set... by Robert Monroe.

Arnie

Ive pasted the url directly into windows media player
That will fix that problem re the browser.

Well, in fact, in other materials Im reading by Milton Erickson, and I ve been looking for the cite for ten minutes,... uhm... he says that memories cannot actually be erased.

Sure, by suggestion certain things may be made to be invisible, but without constant re-enforcement, hypnosis fails.

hence you have

COME TO THE MEETING!

hence you have, TAKE YOUR NEXT STEP

hence you have using WISE/Scientology crap in your business...

AND we now have an explanation of why they send out so much bulk mail with the weird symbols and all..amd pictures of "Ron"

They are keeping their members trance states reactivated!!

Alert,

This is the difference between those people who have been under that spell, (Ex-clams) and those who only see the kooky crap that scientology does, (critics)

from my sig line, on usenet, it sums it up pretty well,

What do we get from getting people out of scientology?
We create an individual who has become a Houdini of
all mind traps.. folks who won't be fooled again.
People who can DE-program, People who can spring mental
traps..

We create, by freeing someone of scientology, a being
who has the ability to break the strongest slave chains
of all.

Those forged of lies. (c) Arnaldo Lerma

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities
Voltaire (1694 - 1778)

I listened to your tape on wma(it ran like a gem) Arnie and relieved my first steps as a 10 month old kid. I must still be very receptive on some level, but thats not necessarily bad thing for me now that I dont have detrimental info flowing freely into me from dubious sources as hubbard. It was pretty freaky listening to what you read and how easily one can be influenced even at a conscious level. Ive got to make time to read through hubbards Research and Discovery Series. Ive briefly perused the first 1950 one and from what I see its all about hypnosis. As much of a drop-out hubbard was and a filthy lying scumbag, he said it all in his Philadelphia Doctorate Course about having new ways of making slaves (Creed even mentioned it in his latest Taped Lecture) in Lecture 20 of 52

Milton Erikson(sp) is very interesting to say the least and I'll ask my Dr about him next week. Ive seen that you get a fair bit of flack about de-programming Arnie, things is though..from what I gather people dont EVER go back when they have FULLY confronted scientology in the cold hard fact of light shining upon it exposing all the dark corners within its box. 'People' carry on about refernce regarding Nazism, Occult, Hypnosis being whacky concepts asin in comparisons to scientology..but it only takes a decent unobscured look at scientology and hubbard's own past to see that some of the professed whackiest notions are evidently closer than some people care to admit.

Hubbard was a Hypnotist
Hubbard was entrenched in Occult rituals with Parsons.
Hubbard's own Sea Org is comparative to the SS.

There are too many coincidences that match/fit for anything to be discounted, let alone hubbards writings/Lectures AND his own affirmations pre-dianetics.

re deprogramming, I can not give anyone grief about not coming forward, or walking away from scientology and not looking back..I was silent for ten years after I left working for scientology.


To decide to try and make a difference, is a moral decision that has to come from the heart.


To be, or not to be, that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing, end them.
Hamlet (III.i.64-68)

The difference between getting deprogramming or just letting the effects and conditioning just wear off, is the difference between 'waking up' sufficiently to want justice... to want to take recourse in Federal or State courts, and doing so within the statute of limitations for fraud ( 2 years)

And Hubbard's Hitlerian Hubris is toxic to the soul. It will interfere with your relationships with others, it will slow your future spiritual progression.

Had I known of someone who I could have gone to for therapy I would have done so, but psychiatrists are so demonized... I could not consider it. Which, incidentally, is another reason that psychiatry is demonized, and another reason that scientology demonizes this activist.

Because every person is different... I find that each person I evaulate has Hubbard's black bubble gum stuck to different parts of them. I then address those ideas... and together, we explore the mechanics of their creation. And I should note that I learn much from the experience. Just as I have reached a point where everything scientology does or says about me, or others, teaches me.

Living in state of impairment, running remnants of hubbard's toxic operating system, has a solution, and that solution is deprogramming.

I admit my real CRIME in the eyes of Scientology, was to
GO TO THE SOURCE as Hubbard says, and so, I went TO THE SOURCES HUBBARD STOLE HIS IDEAS AND TECHNQUES FROM. After all, he was (like Scientology) but a thief, and had and has no power of his or their own, until they stole YOUR LIFE FORCE from you! And I help people to get their MANA back from Scientology!!

The question to ask yourself is how much is your life worth?

Do you really want to carry that stuff around with you??

Arnie Lerma
Lermanet.com
Working for separation of church and hate since 1993
6045 N 26th Road
Arlington Virginia 22207
703-241-1498

A very noble cause you have taken up Arnie and I agree that deprogramming is probably a much more complete way of getting one's own mind back then letting it happen naturally over time. The added benefit of being able to go after CO$ before the statue of limitations runs out is just icing on the cake!

*animation removed at Arnie's request*










-

Alert,
Very good point about Hubbard's frequent use of "see" and "you see." I had never noticed that.

Dear songbird and RWT,

There are so many facets of the scientology's deception, that one is hard pressed to address them all with sufficient detail to hone their technques used into tools of revelation for ex-members.

My attention keeps getting redirected as new understandings boil up to the top of scientology's witch's cauldron of deception. When I read that a simple 'day dream', and boy, I was famous for daydreaming when I was a kid in school...which was evidence of "not paying attention' to my teachers...When I read that the state of daydreaming was considered a light hypnotic state... a trance state.. I was floored.

Suddenly all those people who say, repetitavely, that scientology is not hypnosis or assert falsely that no one could hypnotize them, suddenly fell away as merelt yet another fallacious assertion.

A separation,must be made of ethical hypnosis Milton Erickson style, or Volney Mathesin style, with Hubbard's unethical and covert hypnosis, which is more the style of another hypnotist from the 40's and 50's named Le Cron ( Le Cron introduced the idea of reincarnation)

The taking the brilliant ideas of another without attribution is thievery, and creates the perception that the thief just might be the "Homo Novis" claimed by both Hubbard's book Dianetics or the "uberman" claimed by Hitler.

Going to the sources Hubbard stole from has been quite a journey.

I want to end this morning's missive to stress that there is another kind of Scientology... one that is used without reference to any scientology terms, and consists of the techniques used by scientology, against those whose speech, conduct or words interfere with the continued operation of the greatest scam on earth.

Some of these technques have been outlined by the anti-defamation league, bay particular attention to the bottom two or three levels of the graphic, The Pyramid of Hate.




These are the techniques that have been used, for example, against Gerry Armstrong, whose crime was taking the truth about Hubbard to the courts, the media, and to the public. We owe Gerry Armstrong a great deal, I owe him a great deal. When those who have been battered by Scientology's lies get a simple thank you or note of appeciation, it lets them know that what they did, may have saved a life from a career of lies for a charlatan.

That simple thank you, lets them know that all the pain they have endured, that every little cut, in scientology's campaign for silence by ten thousand cuts, was worth enduring.

I am not writing this because Gerry needs it now, I am writing this because I know how much the letters I get mean to me, they give me the power to continue to stand against all odds and all adversity.

You can thank Gerry Armstrong by sending him an email now at:

gerry@gerryarmstrong.org


Thanks for taking your valuable time to read my missive.

Arnie Lerma

Hitler was trained in covert hypnosis technques, I just found a cite, his name was Hanussen.. a jew, whome after sucking out his knowledge disposed of him quietly and without sorrow.

below hanoussen:


Hubbard was too!!

"The chief function of propaganda is to convince the masses, whose slowness of understanding needs to be given time in order that they may absorb information; and only constant repetition will finally succeed in imprinting an idea on their mind."The success of any advertisement, whether of a business or a political nature, depends upon the consistency and perserverance with which it is employed." Cte from Fest p.s9 Kubizek


Hitler was coached in public speaking techniques by the worlds best stage hypnotists of that era, one of which whose name escapes me happenned to be jewish and he later had him assasinated to cover up the source he stole from, should be of no surprise.

The pattern fits. Hubbard himself mastered these SAME techniques, as is evidenced by his spectacular yet chilling performances at the Los Angeles Science Fiction Fantasy Group meeting of May 11 1948 as documented by Hubbard's own Literary Agent, Forrest Ackerman - (search page text for kangaroo and for "red hot")

LINK summary and LINK to page with images of Forrest's own typewritten notes..

Milton Erickson reminds his readers that hypnosis is not permanent, and that it needs constant repitition and reenforcement.

The tons of mailings from scientology showing thier images and repeating the false promises of OT serve as this constant repetition and reenforcement., to help keep the victim in the trance.

For those who blanch at the suggestion that Hubbard uses hypnosis, should consider that if they have ever had a daydream, they have been in a mild trance state. A Sample of ETHICAL hypnosis, as used by Milton Erickson has been placed in the audio directory at Lermanet.com.
The link to this pleasant yet benign sample of Erickson technique is [url=http://www.lermanet.com/audio/lerma-about-hypnosis.wma]HERE.
[/url]
Those intrigued by the idea of hypnosis in Scientology should review the recent hypnosis thread on ocmb,LINK, I have not yet turned it into a webpage in the hypnosis series on my exit pages - LINK

Repetition of scientology's lies, be it the false promises of OT, or the subtle and not so subtle allegations against those who dare expose them, or my repeating the reference to these techniques for a third time in this final paragraph, is a technique that WORKS.

Scientology doesn't.




"But, six weeks later in April of 11933, Hanussen would be dead: murdered in a forest outside Berlin by agent or agents unknown. There was speculation that Hitler ordered the execution since Hanussenn "knew too much" or perhaps might even have had connections to the Communist Party (hence his accurate prediction of the Reichstag fire some mediums and psychics - Hannussen was no exception - are known to "enhance" their abilities by gathering intelligence on their clients ahead of time or by bugging the rooms in which seances are held, etc. In fairness, however, no amount of dirty tricks could have explained Hanussen's accurate prediction of Hitler's enormous success in January). Another version had it that Hanussen's murder enraged the Fuhrer, and that he ordered the death sentence for its perpetrators, Karl Ernst, who was executed during the Rohm purge with a bewildered "Heil Hitler" on his lips. Another story, that SA leader Count Wolf Heinrich von Helldorf had Ernst arrest and murder Hanussen because the count owed him money, is also current. Hanussen was said to have thrown orgies at the count's Wannsee villa, where attractive young ladies - usually "actresses" - were thrown into hypnotic trances and made to mime orgasms. The count was a rather degenerate sort who went through money like schnapps, and wound up owing a great deal to Hanussen, who carried the count's markers with him whereever he went. Needless to say, the markers were never found (which either proves that the count killed Hanussen and removed the IOU's from the body, or that the story is completely fictitious and never happened; take your pick)."

Arnie Lerma
Lermanet.com Exposing the CON
Working for separation of church and hate since 1993

Coincidences RE hubbards goals and Hitlers goals? The more one looks and takes it all in, the more obvious the correlations appear. There is much MUCH more to hypnotism than having a watch swing before your eyes. IMO, subliminal suggestion was used VERY effectively by Hubbard through his Lectures alone.

*Arnie, what is dope-off really? Deep hypnosis?

Well, I am not an authority on hypnosis, having read 40 pages of Milton Erickson, I have only realized that the use of just what I learned in 40 pages, is of extreme importance to recovering scientologists.

Re "dope off" yes, it would appear to be a deep state of hypnosis.

And while you are in that deep state, you are being pogrammed during dianetics... to Move to the beginning of the incident and then move through the incident to the end,

Over and over.

As if your subconscious is now running on a mobeius strip, never able to escape... from the world of scientology.

arnie

Erickson was adamantly opposed to stage hypnosis and throughout his career he attempted to curtail its use. Philip Ament, D.D.C, wrote Erickson on March 19, 1956, informing him that a Buffalo N.Y. city councilman was "interested in passing an ordinance. . . to the effect that stage hypnosis will be against the law." Erickson's reply is a succinct representation of his basis of objection to the stage practice of hypnosis.

Dear Dr. Ament:

I have just returned from a seminar in New York and will answer your letter hastily.

I have been interested in hypnosis for over thirty years. I have written extensively on the subject, as regards both experimental work and clinical work. I have had a great deal of experience with a wide variety of patients, as you already know.

It is on the basis of my experience that I wish to make the following statements: [b]Stage hypnosis is detrimental to the general public for the reason that many unstable persons volunteer as subjects in a desperate hope to get some help, either directly or indirectly. As a consequence, they are mislead, misinformed and confused and often alienated in relation to a therapeutic method that would ordinarily be helpful to them. Additionally, stage hypnosis gives the public a misconception what hypnosis really is and what its uses are and, in this regard, is actually a disservice to the general public.

The use of hypnosis by charlatans and would-be practitioners of the healing arts constitutes the same liability to mental health that surgery would be in similar hands,[/b] although the danger is not so readily recognized. During the course of my experience, I frequently have had to clarify the disordered and confused thinking of many patients, who had been abused by the deceptive, misleading and often callous use of hypnosis by stage hypnotists and unquyalified users of stage hypnosis.

For these reasons, which could be elaborated upon extensively, I faver (sic) strongly the passage of laws and regulations limiting the use of hypnosis to professionally qualified men. I would include in such professionally qualified men psychologists possessing the Ph.D. degree or the equivelant thereof, dentists and physicians, and I would also favor the use of hypnpsis under the supervision of the Psychology Departments of any accredited institution of higher learning.

I hope this meets your wishes.

SIncerely yours,

Milston H. Erickson



From:

The Letters of Milton Erickson

"On Hypnosis and Antisocial Acts"

pp 235-236