Hubbard's use of hypnosis - Dianetic's true SOURCE revealed

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Post by lermanet_com » Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:08 am

Dear Hans,

You are welcome and the reading/research continues..

Here is some more, and I hope it provides readers with as much new insight as it provided this writer while reading it.

To:Leslie LeCron
March 30, 1946

Dear Mr. LeCron,

Mrs. Erickson and I have gone both through the first hundred pages of the
book...In brief the rest of your book lives up to the first hundred pages...
However, in accord with your letter, we are assuming that you want full criticism of everything. So without regard for your personal feelings, these criticisms for the first sixty-two pages are offered, with more to follow in the near future...

Milton H. Erickson, M.D.

Erickson provided a detailed critique of LeCron's manuscript...

Page 4 Why are you excluding the neuroses of the civilian population that do not derive from wartime living? There are such neuroses, and they outnumber war-related neuroses.

Page 11
Second paragraph You state that in 1943 the Menninger Clinic became interested in hypnotism. Actually in either 1939 or 1940, the Menninger Clinic invited me to give a series of lectures and an equal number of demonstrations on hypnosis over a period of a week. That was the first development of interest in hypnosis at Menninger's.

Last line You really don't mean "proficiency." Rather you mean a comprehensive understanding of the methodologies of hypnosis.

Page 12
Second line ...You use the word "medic." Isn't this really slang? I noticed that you have used it repeatedly, and I wish you wouldn't. It will antagonize too many of your readers.

Second paragraph You don't mean curative agent. you mean therapeutic agent. The word "cure" has a definite meaning to the layman and a very definite meaning to your critics. Don't arouse their ire.

Middle paragraph Regarding the case history of miraculous cures, I would
discredit this because actually medical knowledge was limited and ordinary remissions in certain neurological diseases, such as multiple sclerosis, were regarded as hypnotic cures. Today our better knowledge prevents such error, at least in relationship to multiple sclerosis.

Page 13
Middle paragraph I can actually name a lot of physicians who have published more significant articles than have psychologists. Credit should be given to both psychologists and physicians. Regarding the last sentence, I disagree because I think the psychiatric publications were instrumental in arousing general interest, but, of course, this is my opinion.

Page 15
Last paragraph Dr. R is a crackpot...Additionally you may be rather appalled to learn that Dr. R has published as "scientific" the delusional productions, and I do mean delusional, of two of my patients.

Bottom of page You have William S. His name is (Erickson provides a correction) and please delete him. If you want to make reference to autohypnosis, base it on the work of the acknowledged quack Coue, or make reference to some of the anthropological studies of autohypnosis on the Balinese, particularly those of Bateson and Mead.

Last paragraph W. and B. set out to prove their point. both had make-believe, pretense, and "as if" experimental conditions. W. proved crime by conspiring with a subject to rob himself. What manner of crime is it when one helps you to rob oneself? B.'s experiments were conducted largely on "Let's pretend" situations.

Erickson's critique was completed in stages. The final stage was mailed to LeCron on May 23, 1946...

Page 43 You say ordinarily no more than ten or fifteen minutes are needed [for hypnotic induction]. I think a much more cautious statement is warranted. With three trained subjects, despite repeated efforts, you couldn't get a trance in ten or fifteen minutes on page 38. Actually the time required in function of the purpose of the trance and of the personality structure itself. Too often people get the idea that hypnosis is a matter of magical utterance and a verbal formula, a ritual of movement and the lapse of a specific period of time...

Page 66 I agree that subjects can be hypnotized unwittingly to them. But then you have the problem of continuing them in a trance state, which is possible only with their consent. As you merely give them posthypnotic suggestions through the guise of giving posthypnotic suggestions to others, you are likely to come to personal grief.

Page 91 "Down the toboggan slide he goes," is a threat to the reader and a mockery of hypnosis.

Page 131 As for Dr. R, some of his best statistical papers are based on the delusional findings of a paranoid praecox patient whom I had been caring for for years. Yet Dr. R has accepted this strictly delusional material as if it were actual scientific data.

Pages 163 and 165 I think you ought to stress that autosuggestion is too often employed by a sick person who knows he should receive treatment and attempts to give himself treatment when he doesn't even know what his ills are. Therefore in such cases autosuggestion is a blind, hopeless and stupid procedure. Autosuggestion, intelligently directed, is definitely of value.

Certainly you are going to get in trouble with that last paragraph.. Inferiority, anxiety and depression cannot be overcome by autosuggestion, nor is such self-treatment properly to be called auto-psychotherapy. It is primarily a means of repressing and suppressing.

Page 177 The conditioned reflex theory has to be thrown out. [Robert] White's idea of meaningful, goal-directed striving in which the general goal is to behave like a hypnotized person makes this definition ridiculous, because how can you or I, regardless of our experience, communicate to a small child the mental process by which to recover a forgotten memory. Therefore we cannot define to the subject how to behave like a hypnotized person. Nor is his regnant motive submission to the hypnotists demands...

Page 199 Please avoid all the harsh criticism that you invite by favorable
mentions of telepathy. Hypnosis is having a sufficiently difficult time and your book is much too good to be blasted because of telepathy; why not put in the statement that the unconscious can at times be unbelievably adroit and sensitive to picking up small cues, subliminal stimuli, minor changes in facial expression, breathing, etc. For example I once gave a two-hour seminar in psychiatry to some residents. One of them had brought his fiancée, who I met for the first time. At the conclusion of the two-hour lecture, she offered to tell my fortune. The items of information that she had about me were incredible. She was very much offended too, when I went back over the lecture and the conversation and discussion, and
demonstrated to her how carefully she had added up, with good clinical sense and judgment, facial expressions, intonations, emphases, motor responses, etc which disclosed my own personal attitudes on a great variety of topics. She has since demonstrated her capacity to me of listening to a lecture and pointing out the vocal intonations that betray facts.

Pages 271-272 Please stop kicking psychoanalysis around. You are writing a book on hypnosis, not a critical evaluation of psychoanalysis.

Page 283 Still kicking old psychoanalysis around, I see. I simply don't
understand what you mean by the assertion, "It seems most unlikely to regard the causative factors or emotions as possessed of any actual dynamic force or energy which produces the neurotic symptoms." You are really asking for trouble from everybody who knows anything about personality disorders...

Page 295
Middle paragraph Auto-suggestion is not so helpful. Human nature demands help. Self-suggestion can at the most lead only to a greater readiness to accept help, but is not help in itself. There is no royal road to knowledge, to adjustment, to health,to strength, to education. Nevertheless, what you say seems to advocate hypnosis as a short cut to utopia.

Page 347 Your statement is, "Emotion and suggestion operate in exactly the same manner to charge the brain." This is an excellent example of an unscientific statement, gratefully received by all critics.

p 172
Important names in hypnosis

In 1956, correspondence between LeCron and Erickson continued against an important background that should be noted. In 1955 the British Medical Association had recognized hypnosis as a legitimate treatment modality in medicine and dentistry. A similar policy position was stated by the American Medical Association (AMA) in 1958 (Crasilneck and Hall, 1985)...

LeCron presented a paper in May, 1956 before the American Psychiatric
Association, in which he described the state of hypnosis. He estimated that some 2,500 dentists in the U.S. used the technique. He pointed out, however, that little training was available for psychologists and psychiatrists, and he
described the seminar series in which he and Erickson were involved, from the groups inception in 1954...LeCron described the seminar program as consisting of an intensive course with primary and advanced levels...

At some point in 1956, dissension arose between Erickson and LeCron. On October 2, 1956, Erickson wrote to Bernard Raginsky, M.D. a Montréal physician who was a leader and then president of the SCEH, regarding his concern that a charlatan had addressed the society's chapter in Los Angeles, which was headed by LeCron. Erickson also wrote to Milton Kline, then editor of the Journal of Clinical and Experimental Hypnosis, indicating that he thought that LeCron should be dropped from the Board of Advisory Editors...He also recommended that the Los Angeles branch of SCEH have its membership thoroughly scrutinized.

Erickson was tenacious in confronting practitioners whom he thought were
unethical and he spared no effort in tracking down perceived discrepancies. With regard to LeCron, he wrote to the registrar of the University of Colorado at Boulder asking the specifics of LeCron's degree, which he believed was an A.B. degree conferred around 1920. It seems LeCron advertised himself as having a degree in psychology. On November 20, 1958, Erickson received a letter from the registrar confirming that LeCron had received a bachelor's degree in history in

A brief synopsis of some of the events between the approval of medical and dental hypnosis, and timeline of L Ron Hubbard and Volney Mathison (who published 'Practical Self Hypnosis' in 1957 with the foreword written by hypnotist, Leslie LeCron):

"This book has been written under the instructed effects of a posthypnotic
command. It is dedicated to the unassuming ethical hypnotist who achieved the induction, Leslie M. LeCron." Volney G. Mathison

In the spring of 1952, Hubbard resigned from the bankrupt Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation in Wichita "to further pursue," in the words of the Foundation, "investigations into the incredible and fantastic." ... 00108.html

In 1953 Hubbard began offering certificates to his Scientology "auditors" which were presented as being the equivalent of medical, specifically psychiatric, qualifications:

The HGA certification ... means Graduate Auditor and is intended to compare with a Dean of Psychiatry. I am following, more or less, in certifications a time-honored pattern which was first begun in the field of medicine and was later followed through in the philosophic and healing arts. It has been customary for the founder of a subject, such as one or another branch of medicine, one or another branch of psychiatry or psychology, to act as the certifying and training agency; and, indeed, today the British Medical Association grants degrees in no other way. And the only degrees for medical doctor granted in Great Britain which are accepted in the BMA are based on the very type of training which we are doing. We are in the stage of doctors training doctors. [23]

He also offered "doctorate" courses leading to a "D. Scn" (Doctor of Scientology) qualification which, he assured his followers, was "a very superior degree ranking with or above psychiatric degrees". [24]

In 1954 Volney Mathison wrote Creative Image Therapy.

In 1954, He also set up a Hubbard College Graduate School and charged a flat $25 registration fee, offering a degree of Bachelor of Scientology.
Electropsychometers, now called E-Meters, were also on sale, for $98.50. They had by this time completely replaced *dianetic reverie* and were essential to Scientology. Hubbard's brochures for
the machines described them as capable of registering "relative degrees of dynamic psycho-physical stress from moment to moment during the dianetic session," indicating "the approximate Hubbardian tone-scale of the preclear from 1.0 to *infinitely high ranges* [italics his]." He fixed the importance of the E-Meter once and for all when he wrote, in a later brochure: "Bluntly, auditing can't be at optimum without an electropsychometer

In the summer (July, 1954), Hubbard attempted to associate Scientology with Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism in what came to be known years later as The Phoenix Lectures. Laterthat year (September, 1955), at least one other follower was jailed (in Phoenix,Arizona) for practicing medicine without a license (Karie, 1955).

By 1955, Dianetics had rejoined Hubbard's fold on something of an official basis.The Research Foundation in Los Angeles with whom he had broken had fallen on hard times and Hubbard was able to make some kind of peace with its directors
Do you THINK scientology works?
Then read [url=]THIS PAGE[/url] here on XENU.NET

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Post by lrh_lied » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:05 am

ok,,, I was intrigued and bought the book..the letters of milton erickson

here is an interesting one...

did hubbard steal ericksons technique and make up the lifting of ashtrays....?

it induces hypnosis...

'arm and hand levitation is a commonly used as a 'convincer' technique that allows hypnotic subjects to experience disassociated ideomotor behavior. By this method, the hypnotist offers the subject suggestions that an arm feels light, so light that it will automatically, without voluntary effort drift upwards... Erickson often utilized hand levitation as an induction technique. arm levitation has been incorporated into several hypnotic susceptablility tests, most notably the hypnotic induction profile (hip)

This month's tip is about one of the most powerful techniques in hypnosis - ideomotor signaling.

An ideomotor signal is way to communicate non-verbally

Since the unconscious mind functions on more of a metaphorical level, a level dealing with imagery and imagination rather than logic, methods that use the body and emotions rather than our verbal skills are highly effective in reaching that part the mind.

Using ideomotor movements communicates with unconscious, pre-verbal parts of the mind

You can use either the pendulum, or some other body movement.

Now you can begin to ask the unconscious questions.

TR 8: Tone 40 On Objects
[ Trying to make the ashtray STAND UP. Student gives Tone 40 command "STAND UP!". Tone 40 acknowledges with "THANK YOU!". "SIT DOWN!". "THANK YOU!."

Repeat until cognition (about an hour).

By this point, I was so deluded by the concept of Tone 40 that the fact that I was LIFTING IT WITH MY HANDS was irrelevant. I gave the command, the ashtray stood up. After doing this for half an hour, I felt like God, lifting the ashtray by sheer intention. My Thetan's (Scieno-babble for "spirit") Intention was using my arms and hands, though that was only for convenience, since with sufficient intent they were not necessary. I was allowed to stop when I cog'ed (Scieno-babble for "cognition") on this. TR8 is heavy-duty Scientology processing, or thought conditioning.

this technique was founded based on the observation of automatic writing... ... ffect.html

ideomotor effect This is the psychological phenomenon that underlies dowsing, automatic writing, table tipping, and the Ouija board. Quite unconsciously, the participant is moving the hand enough to make the movement of the involved device occur, though he may attribute the motion to the divine or supernatural force in which he believes.
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Post by lrh_lied » Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:37 am

and speaking of hypnosis and the tr's check this out...

what was going on with lisa mcpherson...?

did not know the introspection rundown included looking at objects... or doing objectives...? this is not rest and relaxation... what were they doing to her...was she pts or was she knowing of something that necessitated more hypnotic programming....?

what tr could this be....?

bonnie portalano:
So umm...oh, let's see...she went...she went on saying the main thing that.. that she had done wrong was that "She took her eyes off the object". And that...that's a know..."I took my eyes off the object". That seemed to be a really big thing for her. Umm...1 don't know what object it was.

Det. Sudler:
Okay. Umm...did she ever elaborate on what she meant by taking the eyes off of the object or...
Portolano: No.
Det. Sudler: That never came up again in conversation?
Portolano: No.

Portolano: No, she didn't mention anything like that. And I don't want to make the taking the eyes; off the object was small. It was very big.

Det. Sudler:
Okay. We're gonna continue this tape on side two as side one has ended. Bonnie, I'd like you to just continue your conversation. You were know...what she had said about taking the eyes off the object know...what, if any, relevance know... information she gave you concerning' that.

Right. I was just explaining that umm...that was... that was something very significant. It seemed to be umm... one of the most important things that was stressing her. It was the ob... taking her eyes off the object and that she had been doing bad things in her mind. Umm...and it...she did mention it over and over and over again although I did not know how to re-direct towards that because of my lack of knowledge in the Scientology...the Church of Scientology. So it...had I been educated in that, I could' know...delved further... further into it. But umm...due to that..due to my lack of knowledge, I...1 didn't get more information out of that.

lisa was speaking clearly about taking her eyes off the object and doing bad things.... why did she feel this way and what were they doing to her...?
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Post by lrh_lied » Tue Sep 12, 2006 2:17 pm

Kellie Davis: She said that she was getting out and coming home, and I asked her, I told her, I said "you mean your getting out of Scientology?" and she said "let's not talk about it over the phone," she said," I'll tell you all about it when I get home." But she said "but I'm getting out and coming home to stay." And she said that I'll definitely be there before Christmas.

there comes a time when scientology says that you are pts or psychotic, and there is the undertaking of the intense rituals that use hypnosis intensely. maybe there is nothing wrong with a person, except for the fact they need to be handled, or are doubting scientology. the scientology 'diagnosis' is to isolate and use these rituals. the results are compliance or death....

this is an intentional infliction of emotional distress

another resource found.... that wanted to leave and explains...

One definition of an implant is "an unwilling and unknowing receipt of a thought or the intentional installation of fixed ideas." (This definition is eerily similar to what I experienced ]when I first made it known that I wanted to leave Scientology.)

An example of objective processing is a process called "Operating Procedure by Duplication." Op Pro by Dup for short. The exact procedure for Op Pro by Dup is to have two tables about 10 feet away from each other. The auditor places a book on one table and a bottle - like a Coke bottle or whatever -- on the other. The auditor and preclear stand close to each other and the auditor gives commands to the preclear. The commands, as I recall them, are:

"Look at that book. Good. Walk over to that book. Good. Pick it up. Good. What is its color? Good. What is its weight? Good. What is its temperature? Good. Put the book down in the exact same place. Good. Look at that bottle. Good. Walk over to it. Good. Pick it up. Good. What is its color? Good. What is its weight? Good. What is its temperature? Good. Put it down in exactly the same place."

This is done over and over. The commands are enforced by the auditor, even if the auditor has to drag the preclear's unconscious body back and forth making him execute the commands. On the RPF, everybody had to do this Op Pro by Dup for a minimum of 25 hours. This is done to condition the preclear to accept control, with or without the pre-clear's cooperation.

Op Pro by Dup is just one example of an objective process. There are a lot of others, like the one where the auditor sits in a chair facing the preclear and says, "Give me that hand. Thank you. Give me that hand. Thank you. Give me that hand. Thank you," for hours until the preclear has some kind of cognition. There is another one where the auditor tells the preclear to look at different things in the environment. It goes like this: "Look at that tree. Thank you. Look at that flagpole. Thank you. Look at that power line. Thank you. Look at that bird. Thank you." On and on. Needless to say, I had had enough of these objective processes on the RPF. I didn't want any more on OT 1.

Scientology Is An Implant

by Jon Atack

Yes indeed Scientology is a system of implanting and the "cognitions" are predetermined by the processes. But it is a fairly complex system of implanting which follows the rules as laid out by all of the authorities - Jolly West, Lifton, Singer, Schein and Cialdini. Using Schein's model, we see that Dianetics first propels you into age regression where you will have to invent memories because we don't actually have the memories that Hubbard claimed. This is False Memory Syndrome.

In the TRs intense hypnotic states are achieved resulting in dissociation and the beginning of the construction of a cloned pseudo-identity. Scn'ists retreat into TRs when challenged, re-inducing the flat emotionless unresponsive state. Through Tone Scale drilling, people learn to pretend emotions. The downside is that they can lose spontaneity by doing so. They can lose the capacity for natural emotions.

With the CCHs, mimcry is used. The four basic forms of hypnosis or trance induction or heightening of suggestibility seem to be repetition, fixation, paradox (or confusion) and mimicry. On the objectives, people have dizzy dissociated feelings. Hubbard even said that on OpPro by Dup if the preclear says he feels as if he is "floating" to end off because s/he is "exterior". This spatial dissociation is a common fact know to all hypnotists (and Hubbard of course claimed great expertise as a hypnotist)
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Post by lrh_lied » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:08 am ... ersion.htm

Can Hypnosis Explain "Cult" Conversion? Evidence from Science and Practice

The following is a summary of a paper presented at the 2001 annual meeting of the American Psychological Association (APA), under the sponsorship of Division 30 (Psychological Hypnosis).

Professor Emeritus (University of Pennsylvania) Arthur Dole, Ph.D. chaired the symposium. Participants included: mental health counselor/hypnotherapist and cult expert Steven Hassan, and psychologists Linda Jayne Dubrow and Steve K. Dubrow-Eichel. The Discussant was Edward Frischholz, a former President of Division 30 and currently Scientific Editor of the American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis.

Below you will find the General Statement and individual presentation abstracts submitted to APA.
General Statement

According to renowned psychiatrist and social critic Robert Jay Lifton, 21st century societies will be faced by ongoing threats of violence at the hands of relatively small extremist movements and ³cults.² These groups typically eschew overt physical coercion and instead maintain group purpose and obedience by relying on more subtle yet powerful means of social and psychological influence.
Psychologists remain at a loss for a comprehensive theory that explains cult conversion and membership. Many believe that hypnosis plays a role in facilitating and maintaining these conversions. Some consider hypnosis to be the central and most salient process in cult indoctrination. Others believe hypnosis plays an ambiguous or relatively small role. Still others point to the large number of conversion/indoctrination failures and other anomalies of cult conversion as proof that hypnosis is obscures our understanding of conversion experiences.

This symposium considers the role of hypnosis in cult conversion from several viewpoints. The misuse of hypnosis is explored in one large cultic group founded by a science fiction writer and stage hypnotist. Its indoctrination methods liberally incorporate covert as well as overt hypnotic methods. The interaction of hypnosis and iatrogenic group process in a psychotherapy cult is presented next. The leaders (who recently surrendered their licenses following a series of malpractice and ethics complaints) used hypnotic techniques in group settings in which strong group pressure produced memories of childhood satanic abuse. They also induced and utilized prolonged trance states.

The third presenter asks if hypnosis is a too-convenient label applied haphazardly and uncritically to a range of phenomena that are better understood by employing more parsimonious social psychological concepts. Describing cultic indoctrination processes as ³hypnosis²may oversimplify the cult phenomenon. Research suggests that cultic groups employ a broad range of influence strategies, some mundane and others exotic, and that cultic groups vary considerably.

[Introduction by Steve Dubrow-Eichel]

The Misuse of Hypnosis in Destructive Cults

Cult critics have long held that the dramatic and seemingly unyielding changes induced during cult indoctrination and conversion are due to the misuse of hypnosis. Although hypnosis may not explain all the dynamics underlying cult conversion experiences, it may explain a great deal of it, and it is often an important mechanism in the indoctrination process. This presentation explores the consolidation of overt, covert and³extended² hypnosis into a paradigm for understanding behavior and belief change in cultic groups.

My presentation considers the misuse of hypnosis by cultic groups in general, with particular emphasis on its employment by one large, well-known organization labeled ³cultic² by its critics. The founder of this organization, L. Ron Hubbard, was a science fiction writer and stage hypnotist who later included a host of hypnotic methods to induce trance and alter peoples¹ identities, beliefs and values. Hubbard initially embraced hypnosis as the basic methodology of Dianetic counseling and later liberally incorporated covert as well as overt hypnotic methods in developing the personal growth ³technologies² employed by the Church of Scientology. In this program, I will explain and demonstrate some of the exercises, techniques and methods used systematically by this group.

Understanding how intelligent, educated people can be covertly hypnotized and then indoctrinated provides considerable insight into how psychologists can assist those who wish to critically evaluate their experiences within cultic groups. The ³Strategic Interaction Approach² (SIA) is a counseling strategy based in part on a hypnosis paradigm of behavior and belief change. My presentation concludes with an introduction to SIA.

[Steven Hassan]

Where Does Hypnosis End and Iatrogenic Group Influence Begin?

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Post by lrh_lied » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:10 am ... trance.htm

Essay: Coping With Trance States

Cult Observer
Volume 10, No. 3, 1993

Trance states, derealization, dissociation, spaceyness. What are they? What strategies can we use to cope with them? By trance states we mean dissociation, depersonalization, and derealization. In the group we called it spacing out or higher/altered states of consciousness. All humans have some propensity to have moments of dissociation. However, certain practices (meditation, chanting, learned processes of speaking in tongues, prolonged guided imagery, etc.) appear to have ingrained in many former members a reflexive response to involuntarily enter altered states of consciousness. (These altered states are defined fully in The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders [DSM III]).

Even after leaving the group and ceasing its consciousness altering practices, this habitual, learned response tends to recur under stress. For some former members this can be distressing and affect their functioning. When this happens, it tends to impair one’s concentration, attention, memory, and coping skills.

Many former members coming from groups practicing prolonged consciousness altering find that the intensity, frequency, and duration of the episodes decrease when they deliberately and consistently use the strategies outlined below.

It is important to note that when one is tired, ill, or under stress, the feelings of spaceyness, dissociation, depersonalization, and derealization may temporarily return. By developing the ability to immediately label these states and attempting the following strategies, one can return to a consistent state of mental functioning.

* Maintain a routine.
o Make change slowly, physically, emotionally, nutritionally, geographically, etc.
o Monitor health, watch nutrition, get medical checkups. Avoid drugs and alcohol.
o Take daily exercise to reduce dissociation (spaceyness, anxiety, and insomnia).
o Avoid sensory overload. Avoid crowds or large spaces without boundaries (shopping malls, video arcades, etc.) Drive consciously without music.
* Reality orientation
o Establish time end place landmarks such as calendars and clocks.
o Make lists of activities in advance. Update lists daily or weekly. Difficult tasks and large projects should be kept on separate lists.
o Before going on errands, review lists of planned activities, purchases, and projects. Mark items off as you complete them.
o Keep updated on current news. News shows (CNN, Headline News, talk radio) are helpful because they repeat, especially if you have memory and concentration difficulties.
* Reading
o Try to read one complete news article daily to increase comprehension.
o Develop reading "stamina" with the aid of a timer, and increase reading periods progressively.
* Sleep interruptions
o Leave talk radio/television and news programs (not music) on all night.
o Don’t push yourself. After years or months, dissociation is a habit that takes time to break.
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Post by lrh_lied » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:11 am

delete double post
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Post by Dr. Donna Shannon » Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:55 am


You guys have hit the nails of $cientology's coffin smack on the head! The tape was great. I haven't had time to read this whole thread but what I have read really makes sense and explains a lot.

Thanks for the insight.


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Post by Bar Moshiach » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:11 am

There was one area of Scientology that knowingly and explicitly tried to practice hypnosis. While suggestion, coersion, and outright bullying played some part in staff-staff and staff-public exchange, it was in sales that specific hypnosis drills were practiced.

Around 1973-74, all org and mission registrars began drilling from the book "Big League Sales Closing Techniques" by super-salesman Les Dane. In his book, Dane describes how he would tell a whole audience that he was going to hypnotize them at some point. Later in the lecture he'd show them a film of themselves that proved it.

They would see themselves nodding their heads in unison with Dane's own nodding, while hearing him say "And we really want to help the customer, and this is a great country, and we're really all martians." The nodding/agreement continued right on through.

Registrars were taught to use the nodding head to get the customer nodding along to produce a state of agreement by hypnosis.

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Post by Antique Hoax » Sat Sep 16, 2006 6:51 am

Bar Moshiach wrote: Registrars were taught to use the nodding head to get the customer nodding along to produce a state of agreement by hypnosis.
I'm not familiar with the "nodding along" technique as an inducement to what would be characterised as a covert hypnosis.

Is this accurately described as hypnosis, or better as positive body language? Good sales technique?

I only ask cause I'm not sure.

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Post by Bar Moshiach » Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:47 pm

In his book, Les Dane refers to the nodding as a type of hypnosis. But I don't know if it scientifically falls into the definition.

In my earliest staff post as a Div. 6 reg (getting people on to intro services), we'd meet in the morning to pracice these techniques. On this one, you'd talk about things that are agreeable, with a lot of affinity, while rocking as if in prayer at the mosque or synogogue, to get the other person to also be rocking, nodding. The physical level of agreement was supposed to make the closing very simple.

"Yes, and I love pizza!" (Rocking, nodding)
"I love pizza too!" ((Starting to nod along)
"And how about those Yankees?! (Rocking, nodding)
"Yes, the Yanks are the greatest!" (Fully rocking and nodding with great affinity)
"Allright! Sign right here and we'll get you started!"

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Post by lermanet_com » Mon Sep 18, 2006 1:51 am

"Erickson was fond of quoting will rogers "It aint what we dont know that gives us trouble. Its what we know that ain't so that gives us trouble," To which Erickson would add "the things that we know; but don't know we know, give us even more trouble."

from the Teaching Tales of Milton H Erickson
My Voice Will Go With You

This has become my #1 book for recovering scientologists to read.

Snake Oil Salesmen of all makes models and brands, not just Scientology
will not want you to know this stuff.. And you will have a far deeper appreciation of his work having been involved in Scientology..
Do you THINK scientology works?
Then read [url=]THIS PAGE[/url] here on XENU.NET

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Post by lermanet_com » Tue Sep 19, 2006 11:44 am

Scientology has highly undesirable processes, many of which are hypnotic, wherein normal inhibitions and restraints are in abeyance. Sexual matters, normal and abnormal, are frequently dwelt upon extensively and erotically.

Scientology is not, and does not claim to be, a religion. The general attitude of its founder is hostile to and disparaging of religion.

Scientology is a grave threat to family and home life. As well as causing financial hardship, it engenders dissension, suspicion and mistrust amongst members of the family. Scientology has caused many family estrangements.

The Board has been unable to find any worth-while redeeming feature in scientology. It constitutes a serious medical, moral and social threat to individuals and to the community generally.
Do you THINK scientology works?
Then read [url=]THIS PAGE[/url] here on XENU.NET

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Post by rawl » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:14 pm

Interesting recommendation. He was the inspiration behind the guys who popularized NLP, right? I was familiar with NLP only slightly before my involvement in Scientology but it's not something I pursued.

His personal history is somewhat reminiscent of Tony Robbins.

I see you push this hypnosis line a lot, I must say it is a little compelling, I mean, what if, what if, a bit like your e-meter trickle-electricity-inducing-endorphins idea, what if that too, but I honestly believe that I have experienced no hypnotism in Scientology. I don't mean anything by that other than its not in my experience. Do you simply not think it's more that some are more prone to following the herd and conforming to group pressures and others are not rather than just labelling it hypnosis?

Is the book you refer to webbed anywhere or do I need to dig it out on Amazon?

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Post by rawl » Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:19 pm

In fact, one quick follow-up to that. Steve Hassan spoke about his de-programming methods (forgive the phrase) but he mentioned some things about Hubbard most Scientologists might not know which included him being a stage hypnotist. Now, I've heard him speak of hypnotism in passing in tapes, and I've heard a story which some refute about a gathering of authors where he hypnotized one person to believe he had a little kangaroo in his hand, I'm not sure about that story.

But stage hypnotist implies a deep study? Where is that documented? (I don't mean the far-fetched history in WIS with illustrations of him studying with eastern magicians from the court of Kubla Khan, clearly that is fiction...)

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