Hubbard's use of hypnosis - Dianetic's true SOURCE revealed

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Antique Hoax
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Post by Antique Hoax » Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:37 am

rawl wrote: But stage hypnotist implies a deep study? Where is that documented?
It is very well documented in the practices of the Church of Scientology. ;)


Hypnotism was the only subject Hubbard really knew. Other than that, he was basically an idiot imo.

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:39 am

Open up wide little Rawly!!! Here comes another silver spoonful for you:
The Anderson Report,
Chapter 18: Scientology And Hypnosis
Australia, State of Victoria, 1965


The Board heard expert evidence in relation to hypnosis and hypnotic techniques.
There are, broadly speaking, two types of hypnosis: passive hypnosis, and command or authoritative hypnosis. Hypnosis, properly administered by skilled practitioners, has its proper place in psychiatric practice, and, in suitable cases, produces beneficial results. In the practice of medicine the type of hypnosis generally used is passive; the patient is allowed to, and helped to, go into hypnosis entirely voluntarily, and the hypnotist plays a completely passive role. This technique is quite the reverse of authoritative or command hypnosis, where the hypnotist assumes positive authoritative control over the patient who, though he may or may not be aware of what techniques the practitioner is practising on him, is nevertheless under the domination of the hypnotist pursuant to positive commands.

Because of the serious risk of harm to the patient, it is only in rare and exceptional circumstances that authoritative hypnosis is resorted to in medical practice. The distinction between the two types of hypnosis, the one beneficial and the other potentially harmful, is to be borne in mind when considering the hypnotic qualities of scientology techniques.

Hubbard is very familiar with hypnosis, called by him, "hypnotism", a term which, even at the time of his early writings, was being superseded in professional use. Hubbard earlier practised hypnosis as shown abundantly by his writings. In Scientology, issue 15-G he writes, "I was schooled in hypnotism and mysticism". Elsewhere he writes that he tried hypnotism, but gave it away because of a number of undesirable features which he said it possessed. In Dianetics: MSMH, Science of Survival, and other writings, Hubbard is highly critical of hypnosis, but what he is criticising and denouncing is authoritative or command hypnosis and to the extent that his criticisms relate to, and are limited to, authoritative hypnosis, they have considerable validity . Such criticisms, however, do not apply to passive hypnosis as practiced by skilled and experienced psychiatrists with benefit to their patients in selected cases.

In the skilled practice of hypnosis the practitioner is well aware of the dangers which may arise from the tendency to develop in the patient a degree of dependency upon the practitioner, who is concerned to ensure that this and other dangers inherent in hypnosis do not develop. It is the firm conclusion of this Board that most scientology and dianetic techniques are those of authoritative hypnosis and as such are dangerous. Hubbard and his adherents strongly protest that his techniques are neither hypnotic nor dangerous. However, the scientific evidence which the Board heard from several expert witnesses of the highest repute and possessed of the highest qualifications in their professions of medicine, psychology, and other sciences - and which was virtually unchallenged - leads to the inescapable conclusion that it is only in name that there is any difference between authoritative hypnosis and most of the techniques of scientology. Many scientology techniques are in fact hypnotic techniques, and Hubbard has not changed their nature by changing their names. Hubbard seems quite capable of thinking that if he postulates that scientology techniques are different from hypnotic techniques then they are different. Whether or not Hubbard realises that the only differences are in name, his followers loyally and uncritically accept his word and believe that scientology techniques are distinctively Hubbardian and that hypnosis is something quite different and evil and to be avoided. A number of scientology witnesses, when asked what they believed hypnosis to be, answered vaguely that it was some sort of stage technique for mesmerising people by the waving of hands in front of them, or some such thing. It may, of course, be that, but it is many other things also and of its real nature Hubbard's followers seem generally to be unaware.

The common practice of Hubbard is to change the names of hypnotic phenomena to names of his own invention, purporting thereby to change the nature and significance of such phenomena. Thus, a form of unconsciousness experienced in hypnosis he has renamed variously "anzten", "boil-off", and "dope-off"; hypnotic hallucinations he has called "mental image pictures"; and "dissociation" he has called "exteriorization"


Though in hypnosis there is no E-meter as there is in scientology, at almost every stage there is a parallel between scientology auditing and hypnosis, and it is even to be observed in the initial stages when the auditing session is about to commence. It is well recognised amongst psychiatrists that persons who desire to be hypnotized, or are expecting to be hypnotized, more readily succumb to hypnotic processes. It is not necessary that the subject should be expecting to be hypnotized ; he may not be aware of the meaning of hypnosis or of what is involved in it. It is sufficient that he expects to receive treatment and he makes himself ready and available to the practitioner for the treatment which is to be applied and is ready to accept direction from the practitioner and the consequences or the results of such treatment. In authoritative hypnosis, where the subject is a willing subject and is more or less consciously under the domination of the practitioner, it is found that the subject will readily go into hypnosis, even though he may be unaware of the technical name of the treatment he is receiving or the fact that he is, or is about to be, in hypnosis.

Scientology techniques begin with a preclear who is well aware that he is to be "processed", and the circumstance that he does not know that the process, which is called by a non-hypnotic name, is in reality a hypnotic process is quite immaterial. The name has no significance to the preclear, but the process remains hypnotic by whatever name it is called. The preclear then, expecting to be "processed" finds that his processing commences, as Hubbard directs it shall commence, with solemn and strict ritual. After some standard preliminary questions such as, "Is it alright if I audit you in this room?" and "Is it alright if we start the session now?" an auditing session in scientology processing starts with an unvarying routine. When the assent of the preclear has been received to these preliminary questions, the auditor then commences the session with a loudly uttered, "Start of session." In the demonstration auditing sessions which the Board witnessed, the statement, "Start of session", was spoken in a loud sharp tone, quite at variance with the rest of the speech of the auditor and was evidently designed to impress upon the preclear that now he and the auditor had embarked on the really serous part of the business.

Such a dramatic and startling procedure conditions the already expectant preclear for the exercises or events which follow and is incontrovertibly that of authoritative hypnosis. The preclear is expecting to be "taken in hand", to use a neutral expression, and that is just what the auditor does, and that is what a hypnotist practising authoritative hypnosis would likewise do. The Board heard expert psychiatric evidence to the effect that a person who is so expectant is a very ready subject for hypnosis; it was said that a hypnotic condition could be induced in some patients merely by telling them to lie on the couch on which they had lain on a previous occasion when under hypnosis, and that even the entry into a room in which previously they had been under hypnosis may be sufficient to return some people to hypnosis. In scientology, where processing goes on day after day, the return to the same auditor and to the same place and to the same ritual would readily predispose the expectant preclear to submission to scientology's hypnotic techniques and to a return to the hypnotic state which these circumstances commemorate.

In hypnosis, there is a condition of rapport between the subject and the hypnotist, loosely and variously described as a bond of sympathy, confidence, confidingness, trust. Hypnosis is a state of mind in the subject which is frequently induced by interaction with the hypnotist with whom the subject is said to be in rapport. In scientology processing there is established between the preclear and the auditor such a bond or understanding, and scientology techniques are developed and designed to maintain this bond during the whole of the session ; it is considered bad auditing if this bond is broken and techniques are prescribed for remedying the break.

In hypnosis, a degree of dependency develops and the expert, practitioner is on guard against, and realises the potential danger of, this condition. In authoritative hypnosis this dependency is allowed to develop, often with harmful results. In scientology there is this same dependence which is allowed to develop without restraint. It persists after the auditing has finished and has significance in the desire of the preclear to return again and again to the HASI for further auditing. In the case of some witnesses a quality of almost desperate dependency on the HASI was observable.

A significant characteristic of hypnosis is what is referred to as the atavistic regression of the subject, "regression" signifying the going back to some previous event or circumstance, and "atavistic" connoting and pertaining to ancestry and referring to the losing or dulling of more recently acquired biological activities, so that the subject becomes less alert, less critical, and may become almost childlike, with heightened respect for the hypnotist, the development or intensification of rapport and a desire on the part of the subject to identify himself more closely with the hypnotist. Hypnosis may be induced by a great number of different procures which initiate some degree of regression in the subject. Very many scientology procedures are designed to initiate this regression.

If command hypnosis is unskilfully practised, hallucinations which have been created during hypnosis persist later as reality. In scientology, "mental image pictures" experienced during an auditing session persist thereafter as reality and the preclear comes to believe that the past experiences and activities conjured up during these hallucinatory periods really took place, and so there is engendered a readiness to subscribe to the various scientology theories about past lives, the thetan and similar beliefs.

Frequently a preclear who in auditing has experienced hallucinations concerning murder, rape, homosexuality and other criminal and disgraceful behaviour comes to believe that such behaviour actually occurred during his present lifetime. This results in feelings of anxiety, guilt and self-loathing and a desire for confession and self-abasement, all of which increase dependency on and domination of the HASl. This position is to be contrasted with what obtains where passive hypnosis is used by skilled practitioners; in such cases, though the patient under hypnosis may be uninhibited and may experience distressing hallucinations, they are handled by the practitioner in such a way that, if recollected at all, they do not persist as realities, and beneficial results are obtained from competently administered hypnotic techniques. Furthermore, whereas in the professional use of hypnosis the objective is to bring to a conclusion a course of such treatment as speedily as possible, scientology practice is to prescribe more processing to deal with the hallucinations already experienced and bring to light fresh ones.

One characteristic feature of hypnosis is the increased suggestibility of the subject, of which advantage can be taken by the hypnotist. In the state of regression found in hypnosis fantasies may be experienced which may be spontaneous or as the result of suggestion. To the subject these fantasies are apparently real and true experiences, and if authoritative hypnosis is used, these fantasies persist as reality. Preclears are highly suggestible and readily conjure up past life experiences of a kind and along lines suggested by the auditor and by what Hubbard has written. Hubbard finds much of the material for his "research" in these hallucinations which are quite fanciful and often contain details of "past lives". A striking illustration of the increased suggestibility of persons undergoing scientology processing is the helatrobus implant on which Hubbard worked in 1963 and which was the cause of great excitement amongst scientologists. Hubbard wanted preclears to be run on the helatrobus implanting of the goal "to forget" between 38 and 43 trillion years ago, and many preclears in auditing sessions readily imagined weird things happening to them in the period stipulated, some of them giving to the second how many trillions of years ago they had had past life experiences. This. however, was after Hubbard himself had issued a bulletin stating that he had had such experiences. Afterwards some of the preclears were quite satisfied that they had been recalling true experiences in past lives.

It is recognised in hypnosis that repetitive commands and the exercise of other hypnotic techniques are likely to induce regression in which the psychological mechanism of repression is less effective; when this relaxing or lessening of repression occurs, matters in the unconscious mind are allowed into consciousness, and the subject may be very ready to discuss quite freely many intimate and shameful matters in respect of which the subject would be greatly or entirely inhibited if not under hypnosis. In scientology auditing, all these features are present.

In scientology are many processes, including those which involve repetitive commands, which produce a lowering of barriers of restraint, a lessening of reticence, a readiness to talk unreservedly about the most intimate and secret things and past shameful experiences, and there are even scientology techniques designed to overcome, in an almost sadistic way any reluctance on the part of the preclear to "withhold" anything. In scientology processing there is the same relaxing of repression and the same regression that is found in hypnosis. One of the features of hypnosis is that various psychological mechanisms operate in a more florid form; thus, while in ordinary life a person may show little manifestation of hysteric behaviour, under hypnosis he is far more likely to show hysteric behaviour in a gross form. In scientology processing it is almost standard practice for the preclear to manifest some heightened hysterical features; a great many of the HASI files indicate that preclears have highly developed bouts of hysterical manifestation.

Post hypnotic suggestion, which is an important feature of hypnosis, is the name given to the implanting during hypnosis of a command, belief or idea which is subsequently given effect to. Post hypnotic suggestions may be made in relation to ideas, beliefs, attitudes of mind and the like which the patient is to assume after coming out of hypnosis. In scientology auditing, the auditor, in following the prescribed strict procedure for closing the session, inquires of the preclear whether the preclear has achieved his goals set for the session and any other gains and whether he is satisfied with the session. The auditor is still very much in control of the situation, for the preclear, being in a state of hypnotic rapport with the auditor whose wishes are in effect his, is more likely to answer that the goals or some of them have been obtained and that the session has been a success. This is a form of post-hypnotic suggestion, and after the session the suggestion that the session was a success may persist. This feature of auditing may well account for the "statistic" which Williams produced as the percentage of preclears which it was claimed had received benefit from scientology processing (see Chapter 20 )

Dangerous consequences may follow some post-hypnotic suggestions. If a post-hypnotic suggestion be given in hypnosis that the subject would not experience a particular symptom, e.g., a headache, after a session had ended, the subject might not experience a headache which normally he would have experienced, and thereby not be alerted to a possible medical condition, such as a brain tumour of which the headache would have been a warning sign.

In hypnosis, a condition which is described by psychiatrists as "dissociation", may be experienced by the subject: This is a feeling or sensation or belief on the part of the subject that for the time being he is outside his body. This is a complete delusion though it seems real enough to the subject who is experiencing it. If the processing is authoritative hypnosis, then the hallucination of having been outside one's body may persist after the session has concluded, and this may be dangerous to the mental health of the subject. In scientology auditing, a state which the scientologists call "exteriorisation" is sometimes deliberately sought ; in fact, exercises and procedures for exteriorisation are the subject of a large part of Hubbard's instructional writings. This exteriorization, according to scientologists, is the actual departure of the thetan from the physical body to some position remote from the body. "Dissociation" and "exteriorization" are the same thing, produced by essentially the same means. Whereas in hypnosis, dissociation or exteriorization is recognised for what it is, namely, a feeling or sensation or belief on the part of the subject that he is outside his body, in scientology the preclear is specifically told that the hallucination which he experienced did in fact occur as a reality and that the thetan has been exteriorized. In such circumstances the harmful effects of scientology processing persist by inculcating in the mind of the preclear an entirely fallacious belief. A preoccupation with such beliefs, involving a refusal to face up to reality, may be dangerous to the mental health of the subject.

A command to "mock up" some object is a standard technique for the induction of hypnosis. Hubbard's writings, both in books and pamphlets, abound with descriptions of procedures which involve mocking up objects. A very great part of The Creation of Human Ability, a book of nearly 300 pages, and recommended reading, is devoted to the explanation of procedures which involve mocking up objects and /or exteriorization. Bulletins, policy letters, and other literature from Hubbard repeatedly deal with these two topics.

In hypnosis, it is not uncommon for the subject to experience disturbing hallucinations that relate to repressed things in his mind, such as hallucinatory homosexual experiences which a subject in his normal existence may never have experienced or entertained. Because of loss of repression these thoughts become known to him in a hallucinatory form, and he is likely to experience extremely severe anxiety even to the extent of panic and self-loathing. A subject who, in passive hypnosis, has experienced these or similar thoughts and may have had feelings of revulsion while under hypnosis, may safely be brought out of hypnosis and no ill effects will follow; on the contrary, benefit may result and feelings of shame will not persist. However, if similar hallucinatory and shameful thoughts are conjured up in authoritative hypnosis there may be dangerous consequences. In scientology, preclears have frequently complained of morbid feelings of guilt and depression persisting after auditing.

A further similarity between hypnotic processing and scientology auditing is the attention which both pay to the terminating of a processing or auditing session. A skilled hypnotist exercises great care in terminating a hypnotic session ; he has to be satisfied that the subject is ready to be returned to a normal state from the hypnotised state. Too rapid a transition from one state to the other may have harmful effects. In scientology, there is as much strictness applied to terminating an auditing session as there is to the starting of such a session. The auditor brings the preclear up to "present time", usually running a "havingness" process for this purpose; he then enquires whether the session can be ended, and, when he has the preclear's assent, he loudly proclaims "End of session" in much the same ritualistic way as he commenced the session.

The foregoing illustrations are sufficient to show that at almost every point there is a similarity, amounting almost to identity, between features of authoritative hypnosis and parallel features of scientology techniques. The dangers of the wholesale practice of these pernicious techniques cannot be over-emphasised. Not only does it constitute a very grave threat to the mental health of those already in scientology and in need of psychiatric help but it menaces persons who by ordinary standards are quite normal but may find their way into the scientology centre merely out of ambition, curiosity or adventure. Being unaware of what is in store for them, they may easily succumb to the lure of being made more able, and shortly find themselves mentally crippled by the dangerous practices of ignorant operatives. This has already been the tragic fate of many."

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Dear Rawl:

Post by lermanet_com » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:24 pm

rawl wrote:In fact, one quick follow-up to that. Steve Hassan spoke about his de-programming methods (forgive the phrase) but he mentioned some things about Hubbard most Scientologists might not know which included him being a stage hypnotist. Now, I've heard him speak of hypnotism in passing in tapes, and I've heard a story which some refute about a gathering of authors where he hypnotized one person to believe he had a little kangaroo in his hand, I'm not sure about that story.

But stage hypnotist implies a deep study? Where is that documented? (I don't mean the far-fetched history in WIS with illustrations of him studying with eastern magicians from the court of Kubla Khan, clearly that is fiction...)
It is documented in the typwritten notes of Forrest Ackerman... his description of Hubbard's onstage performances!!

Forrest Ackerman was Hubbard's Literary Agent...

Here is a copy of the letter appointing him, signed by Hubbard.

Click HEREfor aHi resolution scan 319 KB JPG

Image

Copies of Forrest Ackerman's typewritten notes about his hypnotic prowess are linked from

this page in part

and this page in full


PS: I do not believe this document has been on the net before
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Post by lermanet_com » Fri Sep 29, 2006 5:24 am

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/evid/795.html

California Codes
California Evidence Code
EVIDENCE CODE SECTION 795


795. (a) The testimony of a witness is not inadmissible in a
criminal proceeding by reason of the fact that the witness has
previously undergone hypnosis for the purpose of recalling events
which are the subject of the witness' testimony, if all of the
following conditions are met:
(1) The testimony is limited to those matters which the witness
recalled and related prior to the hypnosis.
(2) The substance of the prehypnotic memory was preserved in
written, audiotape, or videotape form prior to the hypnosis.
(3) The hypnosis was conducted in accordance with all of the
following procedures:
(A) A written record was made prior to hypnosis documenting the
subject's description of the event, and information which was
provided to the hypnotist concerning the subject matter of the
hypnosis.
(B) The subject gave informed consent to the hypnosis.
(C) The hypnosis session, including the pre- and post-hypnosis
interviews, was videotape recorded for subsequent review.
(D) The hypnosis was performed by a licensed medical doctor,
psychologist, licensed clinical social worker, or a licensed marriage
and family therapist experienced in the use of hypnosis and
independent of and not in the presence of law enforcement, the
prosecution, or the defense.
(4) Prior to admission of the testimony, the court holds a hearing
pursuant to Section 402 of the Evidence Code at which the proponent
of the evidence proves by clear and convincing evidence that the
hypnosis did not so affect the witness as to render the witness'
prehypnosis recollection unreliable or to substantially impair the
ability to cross-examine the witness concerning the witness'
prehypnosis recollection. At the hearing, each side shall have the
right to present expert testimony and to cross-examine witnesses.
(b) Nothing in this section shall be construed to limit the
ability of a party to attack the credibility of a witness who has
undergone hypnosis, or to limit other legal grounds to admit or
exclude the testimony of that witness.


====

http://orion.csuchico.edu/Pages/vol39is ... court.html

September 24, 1997

Hypnosis appeals in courtThe law takes the defensive side concerning posthypnotic testimony. California courts say some witnesses that are hypnotized are unreliable and may result in a false accusation of a suspect.Rebecca AndersonStaff WriterDespite some claims that hypnosis enhances the recall of events, the legal community said its use in the court system is unjust.Posthypnotic testimony, or testimony for which a witness has undergone hypnosis to recall past events, has faced a tough battle in the courts since its first admission in 1846.In an article of the American Journal of Clinical Hypnosis, writer Melvin A. Gravitz told the tale of the first trial that ever allowed hypnotically obtained testimony in a United States court of law. Gravitz said at that time, controversy raged around the hypnosis issue because of people's identification of hypnosis with phrenology, analysis of the skull and spiritualism. The public was also aware of hypnosis' roots in mesmerism, an early form of hypnotism developed by Franz Mesmer. People said hypnosis was powered by animal magnetism and supposedly helped cure disease.It wasn't until 1982, in People v. Shirley, that the California court system questioned the element of suggestibility in hypnosis. The result of this case was that the court recognized not only that facts obtained under hypnosis might be faulty or be influenced by the hypnotist, but that memory might in fact be changed under hypnosis rendering the witness useless. But it was in 1984 that hypnosis lost all justifiability. Witnesses who had undergone hypnosis to explore the topic of their testimony could not testify in court cases at all. Since then, because of Evidence Code Section 795, witnesses are now able to testify, but only to matters in which the witness recalled prior to the hypnosis. Virtually all other states allow this kind of testimony as well.Larry Willis, a public defender in Butte County, said posthypnotic testimony is currently inadmissible in court today because there is not a consensus in the scientific community on hypnosis' reliability. Scientific evidence is essential for the court to accept anything as a valid testimony, he said.However, Dr. Brian Oppy, cognitive psychologist and professor at Chico State University, said, "One thing we know about hypnosis, and it has been demonstrated again and again, is that somebody who is hypnotized does recall more."Oppy roughly defined hypnosis as "a heightened state of suggestibility." This means that a hypnotist creates an openness in a person to different ideas. Oppy said people can also be subject to perceptual changes after going into an altered state of mind.These are the issues that Oppy said the courts have taken into consideration."The question is, are you recalling things accurately, or are you making things up?" Oppy said. Then as if he were a hypnotist himself, Oppy said, "Part of the problem is I seem to have lowered your threshold for what you consider to be fact, and what you consider to be fiction."Therefore, he said people under hypnosis are more likely to incorporate not only accurate information, but also inaccurate information.This is why one California appellate court ruling ended with the argument against hypnosis in law. The court said hypnosis leads to unreliability of facts that are said to be restored into a person's memory. Because of the rulings that have come up after posthypnotic testimony was deemed unreliable, some cases have since been appealed and convictions have been overturned. A 1989 California case, People v. Hayes, involved murder, robbery, rape and burglary. The judge in the original trial permitted Marie, who was raped and whose husband was murdered in the crime, to testify despite the fact police had placed her under hypnosis before she identified the defendant. Marie was placed under hypnosis to make it easier for her to remember details about her assailant so police could draw a composite sketch. Marie said the procedure did relax her, but she said she did not feel she had been placed in a hypnotic state.Nevertheless, when the case was appealed the court agreed the first judge had made an error. Therefore, since the court found that Marie identified Hayes under a hypnotic state the appellate court overturned the guilty verdict.Posthypnotic testimony was not even useful for prosecutors in 1846. The defendant in the 1846 murder trial was found not guilty when the facts of the posthypnotic testimony were not supported by other evidence offered. Thus proving things haven't changed too much over the last hundred years.



Not sure which state this is, but I'm now curious as to others states that this applies to as well.

http://www.fmsfonline.org/fmsf96.701.html

California case law finds testimony by a previously hypnotized witness to be inadmissible, because hypnotically enhanced memories are unreliable and create a false sense of certainty that makes effective cross-examination of the witness impossible.
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Post by lermanet_com » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:45 pm

Confusion Technique

In all my techniques, almost all, there is a confusion.
Erickson & Rossi - Hypnotic Realities

A confused person has their conscious mind busy and occupied, and is very much inclined to draw upon unconscious learnings to make sense of things. A confused person is in a trance of their own making - and therefore goes readily into that trance without resistance. Confusion might be created by ambiguous words, complex or endless sentences, pattern interruption or a myriad other techniques to incite transderivational searches.

James Braid, who coined the term 'hypnosis' claimed that focused attention ("look into my eyes...") was essential for creating hypnotic trances, indeed, his thesis was that hypnosis was in essence a state of extreme focus. But it can be difficult for people wracked by pain, angst or suspicion to focus on anything at all. Thus other techniques for inducing trance become important, or as Erickson explained:

...long and frequent use of the confusion technique has many times effected exceedingly rapid hypnotic inductions under unfavourable conditions such as acute pain of terminal malignant disease and in persons interested but hostile, aggressive, and resistant...




------------------

This is the technique of the fast talking con man or con woman.
Last edited by lermanet_com on Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by lermanet_com » Tue Oct 10, 2006 7:52 pm

Confusion inductionsconsist of confusing the hell out of someone and then providing them with an understandable option.

This confusion often consists of ambiguous statements or plays on words. Take the words right write rite and Wright.

As you right about the right brothers you realize you have violated the rights of those whose right this is by righting with your right instead of your left.

The intended response is a huge HUH? at which point you offer an understandable option ... and that makes you feel really silly! The option is an escape route from all that unpleasantness and ambiguity and therefore desirable.
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Post by Hubbard's Mushroom » Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:53 am

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

[…] the thetan should feel at least a little remote and detached as
though he weren’t quite present. This detachment will increase
as auditing continues to the great benefit of the intelligence and
ability."

- L. Ron Hubbard, A Step by Step Breakdown of 88 ca July
1952 ©1991 L. Ron Hubbard Library

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Post by Hubbard's Mushroom » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:03 am

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

"Purpose of these four drills, TR 6, 7, 8 and 9, is to bring about in
the student the willingness and ability to handle and control other
people’s bodies, and to cheerfully confront another person while
giving that person commands. Also, to maintain a high level of
control in any circumstances."

-L. Ron Hubbard

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Post by lermanet_com » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:37 am

If that lying sob had just told the truth...

Image

thanks for those quotes, they will be used on the
upcoming CONFUSION TECHNIQUE page

If activists really learn this material, they will not get led off into dead ends, back roads and counter productive efforts. It all seems too simple in hindsight, I feel like a fool for not looking into it more...and not doing so sooner, and for considering hypnosis in general unfathomable.. but in actuality, it is quite simple...i suppose I had some of Hubbard's "Its not hypnosis" programming left running...just like it took me a while to get over the repetitious phrase EVIL PSYCHIATRISTS, - of course, meeting with Dr Margaret Singer and Jolly West in person helped break that programming definition completely.
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Post by SchwimmelPuckel » Wed Oct 11, 2006 11:44 am

Arnie quoted Erickson who was quoting Will Rogers:
"Erickson was fond of quoting Will Rogers "It aint what we dont know that gives us trouble. It's what we know that ain't so that gives us trouble," To which Erickson would add "The things that we know; but don't know we know, give us even more trouble."
This deserved to be quoted... Priceless! - I love it! :D

Fascinating thread!

I'm reminded of a TV show with a stage hypnotist. Some years after I got away from the cult, so maybe 15 years ago. - Was an british guy, who had studio quests called up on stage and did pranks with hypnosis... My GF at the time was in stitches of laughter... I was scared on a deep level!

That hypnotist didn't do anything that looked like hypnotizing. In fact he, seemingly, just 'told' the subjects to believe something or other. I seem to remember he did a slight hand movement.

What scared me was realizing that hypnotists could actually manipulate everybody, everywhere! - We'd never know!

And I thought about my $cientology fiasco... Letting go of my good senses like that.

I had part of a tentative explanation back then. I always thought that $cientology processes, TR's and auditing, was some kind of hypnotism. Never mind that Hubturd said it wasn't. As I recall, he did describe auditing as a mild form of hypnotism in DMSMH.

I did not feel 'hypnotised' when in session. KSW or any other suggestive texts was not read to me while in session.

I think the 'commands' is given you out of session. When studying, listening to or reading Hubbbard. The 'processes' work to make you easily suggestible to anything Hubbard says... This suggestibility training would be like the hypnotists 'magic word' or trigger that bring the trance on and off.

But not a 'word' in this case. The trigger is the identity of Hubbard and $cientolgy.

I remember a feeling of 'awe' when reading or listening. It felt strange to me and I tried to shake it off.

Especially for staff, this is all reinforced with the 'wartime' emergency and siege mentality that the cult works itself into. In 'times of war' we need to set aside our personal quibbles and rally behind the cause. The evil psychs work behind the scenes to destroy us.

We'd never spot it as being hypnotized.

hmm... Hypnotism is about taking control with someones attention. Hubturd waxed right poetic somewhere about that, describing how thethans after body death foun themselves in a 'funnel' with light and pure bliss above and writhing black agony beneath (might not be quoted accurately). - This is really the structure in a certain form of persuasive argument. The promise of good if you go here, and certain failure and bad if you go there... Make your choice! - See? - It was your own idea. Noone suggested anything to you. You made the decision!

Hubbard does this habitually! - Look for it...

:onebounce:
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Post by Hubbard's Mushroom » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:52 pm

Looks like confusion technique to me.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So way up at the top here...you DO have a level where a fellow can say,
where a fellow can say, "The chrysanthemums are no submarine and
somebody let the air out of the spokes." And he knows what he's talking
about. Actually it's quite a trick, talking non sequitur. Sometimes
you'll sit down and you'll start talking to a little kid, and you'll
tell him something like that, and the little kid will look at you very
intelligently and say, "Yes, but no shoes." And somebody down at the
identification band almost goes mad. They look at them and then they try
to creak these things together.
- L. Ron Hubbard
6 DECEMBER 1952
PDC 20: FORMATIVE STATE OF SCIENTOLOGY,
DEFINITION OF LOGIC

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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lrh_lied
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Post by lrh_lied » Thu Oct 12, 2006 3:07 am

Hubbard's Mushroom wrote:Looks like confusion technique to me.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So way up at the top here...you DO have a level where a fellow can say,
where a fellow can say, "The chrysanthemums are no submarine and
somebody let the air out of the spokes." And he knows what he's talking
about. Actually it's quite a trick, talking non sequitur. Sometimes
you'll sit down and you'll start talking to a little kid, and you'll
tell him something like that, and the little kid will look at you very
intelligently and say, "Yes, but no shoes." And somebody down at the
identification band almost goes mad. They look at them and then they try
to creak these things together.
- L. Ron Hubbard
6 DECEMBER 1952
PDC 20: FORMATIVE STATE OF SCIENTOLOGY,
DEFINITION OF LOGIC

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
But Homo Sapiens depends on that level of logic. He can't skip
skip skip and then pretend it's logical. A thetan can do that.
A thetan can just sit down and pretend it's logical. And he said,
"The submarines, ah, the submarines all have chrysanthemums
because of the beer." And the other fellow's supposed to figure
that out. And, uh, well, he's just stupid. He just doesn't get
the point, that the ruddyrods are on the left underside of no
spokes.

<boink>

In Scientology, issue 15-G hubbard writes, "I was schooled in
hypnotism and mysticism".


excellent example of confusion technique hubbards mushroom! hammer...nail... right on the head!

any number of the recitations in hubbard world are as confusing, yours is prime.. purposeful in reducing ability to reason logically causes the induction... the escape from the confusion is trance state...the 'place you go to' to escape from the amount of confusion...

hubbard sez...

you can frighten a person suddenly and they go into
a hypnotic trance? And if you were to frighten a person suddenly
and say something real fast to them, you'd lay in a beautiful
engram? You show them "this is dangerous," they desert it quickly. <escapo to tranco>
You put right in that spot an experience; when they try to move
back over and take over that spot, they just move right back into
that. And that thing commands them thereafter. That is the TRICK
on making an agreement.
<lrh pdc tape>

another addition to the thread...this person is deceased..his take was insightful...

here
http://www.lermanet.com/exit/hubbard-the-hypnotist2.htm

here as well
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.clea ... 330d?hl=en&

From International Viewpoints (IVy) Issue 9 - November 1992

Another Look at Hypnosis
By Lawrence West, USA

While visiting a Clearing Practitioner friend of mine in San Francisco
in 1989 I noticed that he was doing hypnosis on some clients to help
them quit smoking. I found myself a bit shocked and amazed, but
decided to find out why he was doing this 'off-beat practice'. After
all Ron had given us some stern warnings about hypnosis in "Dianetics
- The Modern Science of Mental Health". After talking to him for a
while about hypnosis, I decided that I really didn't know much about
it from practical experience. I had just accepted someone else's ideas
and stable datum without finding out for myself. On returning home to
Southern California I began to look around for a hypnosis school where
I could study the subject first hand with a master of the subject. I
wanted to find out for myself.

During this time, the late summer of 1989, I began reading about
hypnosis and talking with other Clearing Practitioners and my students
about the subject. I found those who had never been in the Church to
have an open mind about hypnosis. Those who had been in the Church
were like me, suspicious and somewhat afraid of the whole idea. I
decided to do an experiment. Every time I met someone new I introduced
myself as a hypnotist or hypnotherapist.

I found that in almost 100%
of the cases, this was received favorably. A typical comment being, "A
hypnotist helped my mother get over her fear of snakes" or "I could
use that; do you have a card." In almost all cases, the response was
favorable or at least neutral. This seemed to be quite a contrast to
the 80% or so negative reaction when you say you have something to do
with Dianetics or Scientology. In seemed that the hypnotists, at
least, had much better PR in the population at large.

Why so? Had I been missing out on something?

About this time a student of mind had put out some brochures in a
local clothing store promoting herself as a Clearing Practitioner
doing Clearing. She received a phone call from a somewhat nervous,
agitated man who asked her in shaky voice, "Does this have anything to
do with Dianetics?" After thinking a second and knowing for sure that
this was a "churchie," she replied, "No! It is hypnosis." He said,
"Thank you, that's all I wanted to know," in an even more frightened
and agitated voice. She said, "Wait, don't you want to know more?" The
reply, "I'm into Dianetics and I am not interested in hypnosis!" He
hung up abruptly and that was all she ever heard on the matter, no
visit from the gestapo, no further contact or harassment. My comment
to her was, "Now, for sure, I am going to find a good school of
hypnosis so that I can have one of those hypnosis certificates on my
wall whether I use it or not." The metaphor being, "This is some kind
of great 'bug spray' against RTC (RTC, the organisation holding
various trademarks and copyrights on Rons work, which has fought
rather vicously against anything they regarded as competition. Ed.)
creeps, it is like holding a cross up to a vampire." In any case, it
will keep distractions off our lines so that we can do our work.

I try it out

By September of 1989 I was enrolled in a 150 hour certification course
in Los Angeles at one of the leading hypnosis training academies. I
also took a weekly 50 hour course at one of the local night schools.
During this period of time, in the fall of 1989, as a part of these
courses, I allowed myself to be hypnotised hundreds of times and
hypnotised other students in the course hundreds of times. The first
thing I found was that I was very good at it right from the start,
perhaps as a result of my 20 years of putting people "in session." The
second thing I found was that the experience of being hypnotised was
quite pleasant, like being 'in session.' I found it to be quite
relaxing and at no time did I feel other-determined or unconscious. At
all times I was fully aware and self-determined. I even went to
hypnosis stage shows where I volunteered to be hypnotised on stage
with a group. I could do all the tricks required, yet I remained fully
conscious and aware of what was going on. I did some test to be sure
that I was not fooling myself. It seemed that I could be in the state
or out of it as I so determined. This could be because of my 700 or so
hours of Clearing over 20 years. I did notice that those around me
seemed to be unconscious of their surroundings. Perhaps, it is true
that a Clear cannot be hypnotised; however, a Clear can enter or exit
the state of hypnosis at will, and while in the state, can do all the
'tricks' that a hypnotised subject can do.


I finished my training by late November of 1989 and received a
certificate as a Certified Clinical Hypnotherapist. I even tested my
new abilities by attending a fire walk in early December of 1989. I
walked across the blazing coals twice and received only one small
burn. I immediately ran it out solo and erased the incident and the
pain.

Two major techniques

There are two major techniques that most good hypnosis training
schools teach. One is the induction of the state of hypnosis along
with suggestions for improvement and the other is regression work
which is not unlike Book One Dianetics. The regression procedure dates
back to before 1950 to the work of Breuer and Freud in the 1890s.

Perhaps this is the 'few bits of Freudian therapy' that L. Ron Hubbard
learned from Commander Snake Thompson that he applied to the ex-POWs
he worked with at Oak Knoll Naval Hospital after the war. I know also,
from talking with A.E. van Vogt that LRH was a skilled and powerful
hypnotist. Van Vogt speaks of a time when he saw LRH hypnotize several
people after a meeting of The Science Fiction Writers Guild in 1947.

Conclusion

As I began to put all my experience together, I came to some startling
conclusions.

These are:

1. Dianetics comes out of Hubbard's research and use of hypnosis.

The countdown, the concept of the 'file clerk,' finger snapping, the
canceller, the idea of regression, and the concept that aberration
comes from some subconscious mechanism all can be seen in the earlier
practice of hypnosis. Remember Ron was a total master of hypnosis and
was well read on the subject. My experience is that if you count
someone down, the vast majority of people will go into a hypnotic
trance whether you want them to or not.

I believe, also, that the breath test, can squeeze and the command
'start of session' as a ritual-like beginning to a session is enough
to put a well conditioned subject into a state of hypnosis. And I
think most preclears could be classified as well-conditioned subjects.
It doesn't matter if you want to or not, it still happens.

I am not saying that this is wrong or bad, it is just an observation I
have made after some intensive study of hypnosis. This study has made
me realize how absolutely easy it is to put someone into a hypnotic
state. In Freud's time it took an hour or so to induce hypnosis. Today
a skilled practitioner can induce the same state in less than 30
seconds.

Snap and they are in a hypnotic state. I think it is because we have
watched so much television. Television viewing induces a trance and
this induction is repeated thousands of times. Now it is very easy to
induce a trance in a member of the TV generation. This has some
frightening implications when you see the amount of negative garbage
coming from television.

When you say, 'Start of Session' you have someone who is "interested
in own case and willing to talk to the practitioner," but you also
have someone who is, to some degree, in a state of hypnosis, i.e., a
hypnotic trance. That is one of the reasons we have the Clearing
Practitioner Code: to protect that person while he is in a very
suggestible state.

Knowing all this doesn't really change the way we do Clearing, it just
means that we now have a deeper understanding of what is going on in
session. And I am saying this with the realization that I may be
offending some of the more orthodox Hubbardians. I definitely agree
that hypnosis is no 'parlor game.' The next question is, "Why did Ron
so strongly disavow the practice of hypnosis?" I have a theory about
that and that is startling conclusion number two.

2. L. Ron Hubbard saw the need to separate Dianetics from hypnosis.

In the late 40s and earlier 50s, a person practicing hypnosis openly
could be arrested for practicing medicine without a license. This was
quite common during that period of time. So by saying, "this is not
hypnosis and I disavow hypnosis," in so many words, Ron was creating
something new and different called Dianetics. This, in a sense, was a
marketing ploy to take Dianetics out of the realm of psychotherapy and
medicine in order to protect himself and future practitioners from
arrest and prosecution (persecution also)
. Dianetics was, of course, a
great breakthrough and Ron discovered a multitude of new methods and
practices which greatly advanced the practice of regression hypnosis.

3. When you hypnotize someone by some means, after telling him that
you are not using hypnosis, he has no way to resist unwanted
suggestions.

Here is what I think is my biggest startling realization on this
subject. And I think it is the reason for the formation and
perpetuation of cults. In my training with master hypnotist and master
teacher of hypnosis, Gil Boyne, a student in the class asked the
following question, "What if the subject doesn't like the suggestion
and doesn't want to follow it?" Gil answered, "He simply won't follow
it." "Why?" "Because he knows he is hypnotized and can simply choose
not to." For the class this was a surprising answer from a man who has
practiced hypnosis for over 40 years. For me, this answer led to a
further realization. What if you tell someone what you are doing is
not hypnosis and, yet, engage him in practices that induce a state of
hypnosis. My conclusion was: He will enter a state of hypnosis, not
know that he has been hypnotized and not be able to resist any
suggestion he is given from the person or group that put him in the
hypnotic trance.

Now we begin to see why some organizations and television have such a
powerful influence over their helpless victims. I am certainly not
referring here to any of the Free Zone groups or other independent
practitioners that do Clearing or Viewing outside the Church of
Scientology.

If someone says, "I am going to hypnotize you." and you agree and go
ahead with it you are still left with some critical factor to screen
out unwanted or irrational suggestions.

In many organization which are referred to as cults (See IVy Nr, 1
page 25, with material from The Cult Awareness Network, and the book
"Combatting Cult Mind Control", by Steven Hassan, Park Stree Press
1988 ISBN 0-89281-243-5. Ed IVy,) the participants are told over and
over in many different ways that what they are doing has nothing to do
with hypnosis. At the same time drills, meditations, exercises and
sessions are done which put them into a very profound, deep, waking,
eyes open, hypnotic trance. If they are also overworked, kept awake
for long hours or denied food, this greatly enhances the trance. Now
these people have no critical factor left to resist suggestions and
will accept whatever they are told. They become willing members of
organizations that purport to be the 'only source of the only
solution,' in the words of the late Jack Horner.

These are people who have been deeply hypnotized yet do not know that
they have been.
They manifest all the behaviors of the cult members
which have been presented in other articles by many authors over the
last 10 to 15 years. I think it is pretty obvious what I am talk
about. In the many hypnosis organizations I have studied with and
visited over the past 4 years which practice hypnosis and say that is
what they do, I have never seen this 'cult-like' behavior. I have only
seen some very self-determined people who think for themselves, the
type of people the average cult member hates and fears. These people
understand the mechanics of hypnosis and are, therefore, not
susceptible to cult brainwashing, which these hypnosis organizations
are not into in the first place. It seems knowledge is the best
defense against hidden hypnotic influence. It could be that people
outside the Church of Scientology in the independent field and Free
Zone were not susceptible to this mechanism and this is what caused
them to leave or be expelled from the Church.

I think that most cults and cult leaders do not realize what they are
doing. I think that they are victims of their own deception. They
actually fear those who think for themselves. For sure, they do try,
overtly or covertly, to push out those people who resist or don't go
along with this covert hypnotic influence. After all, 'one bad apple'
might spoil the whole barrel. Welcome to the bad apple club! I look
forward to comments and criticisms of what I have written here. This
is, after all, just my viewpoint and I would be interested in what
others have to say. (Also very welcome in the form of letters to IVy,
and will be forwarded at once to Lawrence, Ed.) I can be contacted
through "International Viewpoints".
Lisa McPherson escaped long enough to show she had heart...before scientology killed her
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SchwimmelPuckel
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Post by SchwimmelPuckel » Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:12 am

Thanks for that post lrh_lied. :D - This trhead gets better and better!

Hubbard sez...
You can frighten a person suddenly and they go into a hypnotic trance? And if you were to frighten a person suddenly and say something real fast to them, you'd lay in a beautiful engram? You show them "this is dangerous," they desert it quickly. <escapo to tranco>
You put right in that spot an experience; when they try to move back over and take over that spot, they just move right back into that. And that thing commands them thereafter. That is the TRICK on making an agreement.
<lrh pdc tape>
Wow! - Slip of the tounge there.. That ought to disturb a scienos well laid in 'ARC triangle' engram?

Lawrence West wrote:So by saying, "this is not hypnosis and I disavow hypnosis," in so many words, Ron was creating something new and different called Dianetics. This, in a sense, was a marketing ploy to take Dianetics out of the realm of psychotherapy and medicine in order to protect himself and future practitioners from arrest and prosecution (persecution also).
I think there's more to it... There's a parallel in Hubbards stance about psychology and psychiatry. "This is not psychiatry and I disavow psychiatry!" - Same curious paradox here. $cientology is a technology and 'study of the human mind', and could be said to a flavor of psychiatry/psychcology. Yet Hubbard demonizes the traditional fields.

Hubturd explains a lot about varios mental mechanisms that scienos cherish as valuable knowledge of the human mind. These mechanisms, commands in engrams and implants, they hope to uncover in their reactive mind during session and erase them... So curiously, scienos are in session and doing processes to erase 'hypnotic' commands by another name.

The deep hatred against hypnosis and mind control and the fight against it, solidifies the scienoes belief that $cientology itself is not. It is a way to hide that fact in plain view... Sly move that!

So, with scienoes being so proud of knowing about 'abberation' and being able to spot irrational behavior from a plethora of fancy mental mechanisms at work in everybodys 'reactive mind'... They fail to spot an obvious service faxcimile in themselves about hypnosis and psychology?

Hypnotized unawares?

All this is apalling!

From Hubbards Affirmations: "All men shall be my slaves! All women shall succumb to my charms! All mankind shall grovel at my feet and not know why!"


.
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lrh_lied
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Post by lrh_lied » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:03 am

bet this is confusing

From: (Martin Poulter)
Subject: Re: California Bar Complaints L12 secrets
Date: 1996/09/16

The L12 rundown was posted here several times during 1995. It consists of
a total of 25 hours, charged at some ridiculous hourly rate (wasn't it $1000
per hour?). You sit in a chair, holding the terminals of the e-meter. The
auditor looks directly into your face and has to say to you, in an
accusative tone of voice, each of a long list of words. With some of the
words, the e-meter needle will twitch because of your emotional response
to that word (pretty natural, given that it's being shouted at you by
someone who's giving you the Scary Scientology Stare(tm) ).

You keeps going through the list until the needle gives the same reading for
every single word; in other words, until all those emotional reactions are ironed out (or deeply covered up).

The L12 rundown is one of the most blatant indications I have ever seen
that Scientology practices brainwashing.

From lippard@Primenet. Sat Jun 24 18:20:44 BST 1995

For Use in E-Meter--15 and 19

I have a pain in my stomach.
The room seems bigger.
I had a twitch in my leg.
I feel like I'm sinking.
The colors in the room are brighter.
My head feels lopsided.
I feel wonderful.
I have an awful feeling of fear.
You are the first auditor who ever paid attention to my case.
I think I've backed up from my body.
I just realized I've had a headache for years.
This is silly.
I feel all confused.


If you give me that command again, I'll bust you in the mouth.<BR>

[...]

I feel like I could just suddenly break something.

[...]

I remember a time when I fell down and hurt my zorch.
Can I have a cigarette?
What does this have to do with religion?

[...]

I thought we were going to use Dianetics.
Is this room rocking?
How much longer do we have to run this process?
You are by far the worst auditor I've ever had.
Your eyes stink.

[...]

What is this Assist I keep hearing about?
What does Scientology say about ghosts?
Have you ever seen an Operating Thetan?
How are you going to prove to me that I have a soul?

[...]

I feel just like the time I got run over by that car.
[...]

Kiss me.
You are my re-incarnated husband of 20,000 years ago.


[...]

You're dead.
I'm dead too.
We are all dead.
I love death.
Kill me.
Beat me.
No,--No, no, no, NO!!!!!!
Moo Gum Guy Pan.
Sum Gum War Sue Up.
Fizzle Wizzle Bum Crum.
I am going to vomit on you if you don't stop.
I absolutely love the way you handle originations.
You are sweet.

[The above is a selection of excerpts from the "PRECLEAR ORIGINATION SHEET,
an Appendix on pp. 58-60 of _The Book of E-Meter Drills_, basic drills by
L. RON HUBBARD compiled by MARY SUE HUBBARD part of clearing series:
three. Other lists include Prepared Assessment Lists of answers
to questions like What is your favorite dog? Which tree do you
like the best? What vegetable do you like the least? and Which
North American animal would you like to see? While the true absurdity
of these lists can only be fathomed by actually seeing them, the above
excerpts give the basic flavor.]
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[url=http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/washingtonpost/lisa-120698.htm][img]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j105/bmeup/scientology/fb379e79.jpg[/img][/url]

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serenitynow
Posts: 606
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Post by serenitynow » Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:16 am

The L12 rundown is one of the most blatant indications I have ever seen
that Scientology practices brainwashing.

From lippard@Primenet. Sat Jun 24 18:20:44 BST 1995

For Use in E-Meter--15 and 19

I have a pain in my stomach.
The room seems bigger.
I had a twitch in my leg.
I feel like I'm sinking.
The colors in the room are brighter.
My head feels lopsided.
I feel wonderful.
I have an awful feeling of fear.
You are the first auditor who ever paid attention to my case.
I think I've backed up from my body.
I just realized I've had a headache for years.
This is silly.
I feel all confused.


If you give me that command again, I'll bust you in the mouth.<BR>

[...]

I feel like I could just suddenly break something.

[...]

I remember a time when I fell down and hurt my zorch.
Can I have a cigarette?
What does this have to do with religion?

[...]

I thought we were going to use Dianetics.
Is this room rocking?
How much longer do we have to run this process?
You are by far the worst auditor I've ever had.
Your eyes stink.

[...]

What is this Assist I keep hearing about?
What does Scientology say about ghosts?
Have you ever seen an Operating Thetan?
How are you going to prove to me that I have a soul?

[...]

I feel just like the time I got run over by that car.
[...]

Kiss me.
You are my re-incarnated husband of 20,000 years ago.


[...]

You're dead.
I'm dead too.
We are all dead.
I love death.
Kill me.
Beat me.
No,--No, no, no, NO!!!!!!
Moo Gum Guy Pan.
Sum Gum War Sue Up.
Fizzle Wizzle Bum Crum.
I am going to vomit on you if you don't stop.
I absolutely love the way you handle originations.
You are sweet.

[The above is a selection of excerpts from the "PRECLEAR ORIGINATION SHEET,
an Appendix on pp. 58-60 of _The Book of E-Meter Drills_, basic drills by
L. RON HUBBARD compiled by MARY SUE HUBBARD part of clearing series:
three. Other lists include Prepared Assessment Lists of answers
to questions like What is your favorite dog? Which tree do you
like the best? What vegetable do you like the least? and Which
North American animal would you like to see? While the true absurdity
of these lists can only be fathomed by actually seeing them, the above
excerpts give the basic flavor.]
Hi LRH Lied,

I just read this post and my jaw dropped. These are the same originations that are given on the TRs and Objectives Co-Audit, for the coach to say to the auditor in training to throw him off. Like, if you were saying (as auditor in training) "Do birds fly?", then the coach (PC) would say something off that list to throw off the student. Very interesting that the same words are used in L12. Does anybody else recognize those originatins? When I did the TRs and Objectives, my twin found the "Your eyes stink" to be very amusing, I could always throw him off when I said that. Why the heck would they use the same origination list from that course for L12? I'm going to go on a limb and wonder if they intend to use the list to indoctrinate one from the beginning, with hypnotic suggestion?

Just curious, does anyone else remember this?

Very interesting data everyone!

Serenity Now
"We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us."- Joseph Campbell

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