What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:32 pm

You are a Dianetics auditor. You are trying to help people by auditing them. You firmly believe that the auditors are the most valuable people on the planet. But you are not satisfied with the results of your auditing.

In his book Dianetics, which is also known as Dianetics 1, LRH wrote that Dianetics auditing can cure a large variety of illnesses such as poor eye vision, arthritis, Lupus, heart palpitations, high blood pressure, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson’s disease, skin cancer, lung cancer, etc. At the moment you think that his assertions are true. However, you have also observed that the patients whom you had declared Clear still have these diseases. If you are not prone to self-deception, you cannot hide away from the fact that your patients are not getting better. So, why they are not getting better?

When I begun taking the Bridge courses, I could not ignore the fact that the people who were declared Clear were still wearing glasses; I also met a Clear who was suffering from low blood pressure and sickle cell anemia. If LRH were right, all these people should have been perfectly healthy. At that time I thought that LRH was a genius who could not possibly err, so I came to a “logical” conclusion that these people were declared Clear by mistake and their auditors were complete idiots who could not use the Tech properly.

After I left Sea Org I begun auditing my non-Scientology friends; I based my auditing sessions on the techniques presented in Dianetics Volume I and II. There is plenty of data in those books, I thought that I was heading in the right direction. To my disgust I soon realized that my PCs were not getting better. Now I was a bad auditor!

Jay had multiple sclerosis, he received more auditing from me than all my other patients combined. I was stubborn because Jay was in a pretty bad condition: he couldn’t move without a walker.

It took me 15 hours of auditing to “erase” the engrams that Jay picked up after the birth. He did not have too many accidents of unconsciousness and severe pain. But I wanted to make sure that nothing was left untouched, so I gave him additional 5 hours of auditing even though it seemed he did not need them. His condition remained unchanged, which prompted me to help him “recall” the time of birth (according to LRH, the birth creates the bunch of its engrams).

I was diligent, I went through all Jay’s birth engrams, which took us roughly 10 hours. His condition was still unchanged.

Following LRH’s recommendation, I moved into the area of Jay’s mind filled with pre-natal engrams. He was able to “recall” plenty of stuff, which took us another 45 hours of auditing. Unfortunately, Jay’s condition was not improving.

I did the last thing that LRH advised in Volumes I and II, which is “recollection” of events that took place when one was a spermatozoon. Another 8 hours of auditing went by, but Jay still had multiple sclerosis and needed a walker to go to the bathroom (he used to spend endless hours lying in bed).

I run out of auditing options. I was sure that I was not a bad auditor because I did everything by the book. “Something must be wrong with the book“, I thought. It was time for me to re-assess the situation and decide what to do next -- I begun having serious doubts about Dianetics.

I did not have time to re-assess my belief in Dianetics because I got a job offer from a New York City company and my life took unexpected turn which pulled me away from Scientology even further (in the end I became anti-Scientologist after I read Hubbard’s screenplay Revolt in the Stars, which is based on OT 3 story).

But if you’re having doubts about Dianetics, you should not dismiss them; instead, you should re-evaluate your Scientology beliefs. Hopefully, you will come to the right conclusion. But pretending that there is nothing wrong with Dianetics is a disservice to yourself and your PCs.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:37 pm

You are a Clear.

LRH wrote that the Clears have photographic memory. Do you have a photographic memory?

What about your IQ? Did it skyrocket as LRH promised?

It is not for me to judge how high your IQ could be boosted because I hadn’t reached the Clear level. But the ex-Scientologists who became Clear did say that their IQ remained the same after they received the Clear certificate.

Do you know that your status of Clear could be revoked if someone in the Church thinks that you’re an SP?

Do you believe that the people who can revoke your Clear status can also reinstall your engrams? I do not think so. But such revocations show that the Clear title is an arbitrary declaration without a basis. The same is true about the engrams -- they are imaginary entities.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Wieber » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:21 pm

You most likely do not know about Gerry Armstrong. I suggest you search on Google about him and find out about him, even though doing that is out ethics as far as the Scientology organization is concerned.

Gerry Armstrong said that L. Ron Hubbard was a pathological liar. I believe that's true. You're going to have to take a look at the evidence and make up your own mind about that. The authorities in Scientology want you not to look so you'll have to decide whether you want to be compliant, obedient, and other determined or whether you are able to evaluate for yourself and make up your own mind.

I put it to you that L. Ron Hubbard lied to you. I put it to you that all the promises made to you by L. Ron Hubbard and those representing him in Scientology are false promises made by L. Ron Hubbard without any intention of delivering anything to anyone. You may have been involved in making such promises. If so I put it to you that you believed a lie.

That's my opinion based on the research, reading and reasoning that I have done to recover from having been involved in Scientology. You don't have to agree with me and that's OK. For your own benefit I think it would behoove you to go and look at what the authorities in Scientology want you not to look at. I think it would be to your benefit to read those things the authorities in Scientology want you not to read. The material is there. It's up to you whether you avail yourself of it or not. It's up to you, not the authorities in Scientology.

I put it to you that all of the contracts, commitments and agreements that Scientology has obtained from you have been based on Scientology's false promises to you. There are some, including myself, who argue that those contracts, commitments and agreements have been obtained using coercion. In many cases that's true but I maintain that even if that's not the case those contracts, commitments and agreements were obtained based on false promises to you. Since the promises to you behind those contracts, commitments and agreements were false then those contracts, commitments and agreements cannot be binding upon you in any way or at any time.

The only hold Scientology's authorities have on you is your desire to obtain what L. Ron Hubbard has promised Scientology can deliver to you. If you don't want what Scientology offers you are free to walk away. When you do the authorities in Scientology will have no legal, ethical, moral or spiritual recourse with regard to any of the contracts, commitments or agreements that you made with them.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:44 pm

You are an OT.

You paid a lot of money to get to the OT 3 level and beyond. You believe that the OT data you were exposed to is real, the events happened the way LRH described them.

But why the rest of the world sees the OT data as a B-grade science fiction story?

Imagine yourself being exposed to the OT data prior to becoming a Scientologist. How would you evaluate it? Would you believe that it is real? Most likely, you would think that this is a primitive sci-fi story that no one takes seriously.

Are you getting disconnected from the real world? What happened to you after you became a Scientologist? What happened to your analytical abilities?

Those are very troubling questions.

You may choose to ignore the warning signs telling you that something is wrong with your perception of reality. But is this ostrich policy wise?

What will happen to you if you keep telling yourself, “I’m just fine. I do not need a professional help.”?
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:48 pm

You are a Clear.

This is exiting time for you -- soon you will be going OT.
But before you do that, you would like to know more about the OT story. However, there is a problem with that -- you could either die or become insane if you read the Internet OT data, at least this is what you were told.

I read the OT data and nothing bad happened to me, although I am not even a Clear. The other members of this board read the OT story too, nothing bad happened to them, I assure you. Why? Because the OT information is completely harmless.

I am writing a book about Scientology. I have researched the Scientology history. I know why the OT data is labeled confidential.

In 1963 LRH delivered a lecture onboard Apollo. In that lecture he boldly revealed the OT data. Not a single listener got thick during and after that lecture. The last page of my thread, Clay Demos & Hubbard’s Dementia, has a link to that lecture.

LRH wanted to reveal the OT data even earlier, as early as 1960. But his associates, Campbell and Winter, thought that this was a bad idea because the outlandish data had a potential of turning people away from the Church.

In 1974 LRH wrote a screenplay, Revolt in the Stars, which is based on OT 3 data. He tried unsuccessfully to sell the screenplay to several movie production companies.

My avatar contains the word frequently used in OT materials. This word is supposed to be lethal to you, but it is not -- you are still alive and well!

The assertion that OT data can somehow kill you is, perhaps, the biggest lie in Scientology history.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:35 pm

You are a second-generation Scientologist.

Scientology is the only religion that you have ever known. Perhaps, it is time to start looking for another religion that suits you better. But where to start?

LRH wrote that the religion closest to Scientology is Buddhism, he even called himself the “incarnation of Buddha”. You could start your religion quest with researching Buddhism.

There are many Buddhist denominations; you can find one or two of them in your area. I cannot tell in advance what kind of worship they will offer to you. But I can tell what kind of things you will not find in a single Buddhist temple.

There is no RPF in Buddhism because the forced prison labor is considered a sin. There is no family disconnect policy either because the family is sacred for the Buddhists. Nobody writes KR’s because for the grown-ups of all religions, not just Buddhists, this kind of behavior is seen as extremely immature; no one wants to stoop to a kindergarten level.

What about the doctrinal differences between Scientology and Buddhism? To start with, there are no thetans, spirits and souls in Buddhism -- a human being has the mind and the body only. There is no reactive mind with its engrams, either -- the mind is indivisible unit because it is a conglomerate of memories of past experiences.

The more you learn about Buddhism the more you realize that LRH was no Buddha.

You could research other religions such as Christianity and Judaism; perhaps, one of them suits your needs. There are also atheists who believe that there is no other side, you might as well join their ranks if you think that they are smarter than LRH was.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:46 pm

You have received many hours of Dianetics auditing.

It seems that the auditing is helping you -- you are feeling great after the auditing sessions. But what about me?

My first auditing session lasted for 2 hours and failed to produce any result. The person who audited me was a Class V Auditor. I chose not to receive any auditing after my first session because I begun mistrusting the auditors.

In the beginning of session the auditor asked me recall the time when I was in severe pain and/or unconscious. I told her that there was only one such incident in my life when I fell off the horse carriage. I was 4 at that time. I told her that the horse was standing still when I was boarding the carriage, then all of sudden it launched itself forward. I flew out of the carriage and landed on my back. I also said that I still do not know if I lost consciousness or remained alert.

The auditor asked me if I heard someone saying something. I said that I heard my mother saying, “Pick him up, pick him up”. The man standing next to me bent over, picked me up and put me back in the carriage. That was basically all I could remember.

The auditor asked me to recall similar, earlier incidents but there were none. After that she pushed me back in time to the moment of my birth. As you know, LRH wrote that the birth is the time when a person receives majority of his engrams.

For the next 2 hours the auditor tried to help me recall the events and phrases that occurred during my birth, but I could not remember anything. She was persistent but finally gave up saying that I need a rest.

What are the possible explanations of this monumental auditing failure?

1. The auditor was not properly trained and did not deserve her auditor certificate.

Actually, this is what I thought. But I was told that she is a very good auditor and she had helped a lot of pre-Clears before she run into me.

2. The engrams do not exist.
Actually, the research done by NUY scientists confirms that. But why the other pre-Clears are able to recall the desired incidents, while the auditing did not have any effect on me.

This happened because I’m a rare breed -- I cannot be hypnotized. People like me cannot receive post-hypnotic suggestions, so they do not feel great after the auditing sessions. We do not feel bad either -- the auditing sessions have no effect on us.

You see, Dianetics is a form of hypnosis, as the famous Anderson report shows.

Perhaps, you could come up with other explanations of this auditing failure, but I run out of ideas.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Wieber » Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:26 pm

You are a statistic resource.

To almost everyone involved in Scientology the only relationship they have with you is what you can provide to them in the way of a stat.

You will protest that.

They will protest that.

It doesn't matter because it's the truth.

You have most likely disconnected from the people who really care about you and love you.
Their love for you is most likely unconditional.

The love people in Scientology have for you is conditional on you providing them with a stat.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:41 pm

I would like to tell you more about Dianetics being a from of hypnotism.

The Anderson Report that I posted earlier at this thread says a lot about Dianetics and hypnotism. However, it misses three very important concepts which I am going to present now.

In order for a Dianetics-style hypnotism to work, three things must happen:

1. The subject (PC) must believe in Dianetics.

Well, all Scientologists meet this condition; otherwise, they wouldn’t be interested in LRH works.

2. The subject must be hypnotizable.

Not all people are hypnotizable, as I mentioned earlier.

3. A Dianetics session must contain a post-hypnotic suggestion; otherwise, it will fail to produce the desired result.

I would like to elaborate more on the last condition.
There are direct and indirect post-hypnotic suggestion. If the hypnotist (auditor) chooses a direct suggestion, he would say at the end of the session, “After the session ends, you will feel great” or something like that. Obviously, Dianetics auditors do not say such things.

An indirect suggestion would be a phrase that makes the subject (PC) feel good without explicitly saying so. In order to develop an indirect post-hypnotic suggestion, the hypnotist (auditor) uses associations. This brings us to the first condition, which is a belief in Dianetics.

The subject (PC) is told that when his needle is floating, this is the indication that the session is going well. Being a believer in Dianetics, he associates his personal wellbeing with the phrase “Your needle is floating”.

Therefore, the phrase “Your needle is floating” is the Dianetics post-hypnotic suggestion.

I know that you will object to my analysis of Dianetics sessions by saying that, according to LRH, psychology is a bad and misguided pseudo-science. But all I ask of you is to read more about hypnotism before forming your own opinion. As you may know, LRH read a lot about hypnotism; perhaps, it is time for you to follow in his footsteps.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Thu Mar 28, 2013 1:33 pm

You are a public Scientologist.
Your belief in LRH and his Tech is unshakable. However, you have doubts about the Miscavige leadership.

You, probably, know that OT 7 folk are forced to pay up to $30,000 for the yearly sec checks, which is a blatant violation of LRH policies. Most likely, this additional money go straight to Miscavige’s pocket. Perhaps, you heard about Debby Cook’s letter to the active Scientologists; in that letter she criticized OT 7 sec checks.

Currently the Church of Scientology is under investigations in several countries for illegal human trafficking -- the Scientology slaves were brought from Asia, Latin America and Eastern European countries to Western Europe, the USA, Canada and Australia to work for Sea Org. It certainly looks like this Miscavige policy is hurting the Church. But why would he care? He needs more slaves to satisfy his growing appetite for the money.

An independent observer sees that the Church is in a self-destruct mode because of Miscavige’s greed. Does he deserve to remain in the leadership position?

Several Scientologists who are no longer associated with the Church of Scientology have accused Miscavige of altering the OT data. Considering his crookedness, this accusation might be true -- nothing would stop the bastard from distorting the LRH legacy.

Don’t get me wrong -- I am not defending the Tech, to me all its versions are false. But Miscavige believes in validity of the original LRH data, he might have altered it in attempt to stop you from moving up the Bridge. He sees you as a competitor who posses a thread to him, so he supplies you with the false OT data to stifle your spiritual growth.

Consider this -- you might be spending huge amount of money on false Scientology data because of Miscavige. Is this a reason good enough to leave the Church?
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:23 pm

You are a public Scientologist.
You have doubts about the Tech. However, your Scientology friends keep telling you that the Tech is perfect.

You need to get away from your Scientology friends, at least for a while. The best way to do this is to go on vacation. If you cannot go on vacation, tell your friends that you are working on the urgent non-Scientology projects and have to limit the time of your contacts with them.

Identify the areas of the Tech that seem either unrealistic or scientifically unproven to you. Is it Dianetics? OT data? Something else?

Write down your objections to the LRH data. Pinpoint the strongest objections to the LRH data. Try to design the experiments that would prove that your objections are valid.

If it is possible, try to run your experiments.

Your objections may of logical nature. Play the game of devil’s advocate by defending the LRH ideas. Estimate how good, or bad, is your defense of the LRH ideas.

Sharpen your criticism of the LRH ideas. Play the game of devil’s advocate again.

Repeat the process until you feel that your critique of the LRH ideas is perfect.

Now it is time to reestablish the contacts with your Scientology friends. Share your criticism of the Tech with them. Force them to defend the Tech and show them that they cannot defend the Tech from your critique.

What if their defense is stronger than your criticism? Well, I guarantee that this is not going to happen -- the Tech is so full of inconsistencies that no one can defend it. However, if you feel that you’re getting beaten by your opponents, PM me for help if you do not want to post anything in the open.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Wieber » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:45 pm

If Scientology worked to the ends Hubbard claimed for it David Miscavige would not be running it.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Wieber » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:14 pm

Scientology operates on the basis of the greatest good for David Miscavige.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Sun Mar 31, 2013 12:40 am

You are an OSA operative.
It is your job to monitor this website and similar websites. You have been inoculated against the entheta, I cannot even imagine what kind of TR they run on you.

However, there is a problem -- the SP sometimes use the data that comes from official Church of Scientology newspapers and magazines. For example, an official Church of Scientology source was quoted recently, it states that there are 10,000 active Scientologists in the UK. Compared to the UK population, this number is miniscule. It does not look like Scientology is doing well in the UK.

Is it worth fighting for something that has very little survival chance?

There is another problem -- the OT 8 data was released long time ago, there is no movement on the Bridge. Perhaps, OT 8 is the highest level, which means that the Bridge leads to nowhere. Or, perhaps, DM is keeping the OT data to himself for whatever reason.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented LRH » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:13 pm

I would like to discuss certain things that I observed in Sea Org. I want you to draw your own conclusions.

It took me 3 weeks to graduate from EPF (the average graduation time is 2 months). While being in EPF, I met 90+ Sea Org recruits. After one year elapsed, only 21 of those recruits remained in Sea Org.

16 of the 21 were second-generation Scientologists. Four of them were 18-year-olds who graduated from regular high schools, it was their decision to join CMO (Commodore Messenger Org) and Flag. The remaining 12 were the children whose ages were ranging from 12 to 15, some of them attended Cadet Org before joining EPF. None of these kids could have survived outside CoS in a world that they knew nothing about.

5 out of 21 were adults who got interested in Scientology at a mature age. One of them was a retarded black woman, it took her 2 years to complete the EPF studies.

As you can see, more than 70 recruits out of 90+ have left Sea Org. In the beginning they all, except me, were very enthusiastic about their future work in Sea Org, they all planned to remain in Sea Org for the rest of their lives (I was planning to work for SO for about 4-5 months). In the end they all, except for one person, left Sea Org before I did (he left the hated organization one month after my departure).

I thought that I worked for SO for 6 months. But recently I found my old tax return form and became clear to me that I spent in Sea Org little over 5 months. I was the only person out of my comrades who left SO behind who did not believe in the thetan idea (I wanted to study Dianetics only). In the beginning they all believed in the thetan thing. None of them received any auditing while being in Sea Org, so they did not know how good, or bad, Dianetics was.

I spoke to some of them after they quit Sea Org. Although they all did not like the arrangement (low pay, long hours, poor living conditions), that was not the main reason why the came to believe, in their words, that Scientology is crap. They all reached that moment when they became disillusioned in the thetan idea.

In the beginning they thought that the thetan is an equivalent of the Christian soul, so the whole thetan idea did not seem outlandish to them (in contrast, I was an atheist who did not believe in spirits and souls). But later, after taking Scientology courses, they came to realize that the thetan is anything but the soul.

They had two major problems with the Scientology lore: 1. They read HCOBs and Policy Letters about the truly miraculous powers that the thetans supposedly have; however, no demonstration of such supernatural abilities was given to them; 2. They were told that if they read the OT data they might die or severely injure themselves. But the whole idea that a text could cause physical injury or death seemed obtuse to them.

No one was able to answer their questions about the thetans, so they came to conclusion that the thetan idea is bogus.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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