What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon May 23, 2016 2:06 pm

The topic of this seminar was an LRH book, The Creation of Human Ability. I thought the book was about Dianetics, but it wasn't. For about 40 minutes I was hearing nonsense about mocking up planets, stars and other objects, and was slowly falling asleep. Then the speaker begun talking about prefect duplicates of objects.

"When such duplicate is made, both the duplicate and the original object disappear, " said the speaker. Smart Alec asked him, "Have you made a perfect copy of an object?" "I tried but was not successful. However, the object, which was a bottle, became dim, as LRH predicted," said the speaker

"What if a copy is not perfect: will it stay?" I said. "Yes, it will stay," said the speaker.

"Here is the solution to all CoS problems. The best gold is produced in India, the purest one is 22 karate high. Now, if you make an imperfect copy of 22 karate golden bar, you will get 20 karate golden bar, which is very good, most stores in the US sell 14 karate gold," I said.

"I never thought of that. I think, you're right," said the speaker.

"They already do that in Big Blue, although not with the gold but with the diamonds, " said a short and freckled man. "Where?" said the speaker.

"In the Big Blue basement," said the shorty. "I've been in the basement when I was in Sea Org. There is a Xerox copy machine there, and ASHO cabinets with files, nothing more," I said.

"The corridor with the files has the door at its end, did you see it?" said the shorty. "Yes, but there is big door lock on it," I said.

"The lock is for the show. There is a large room behind the door, there are 20 highly qualified Scientologists there who make imperfect copies of Sough African diamonds," said the shorty.

"Why none of us has heard about this enterprise?" said the speaker. "They work in deep secrecy. If the rumor gets out that CoS are making artificial diamonds, their price would go down dramatically," said the shorty.

"I am going to but that book. I'm going to do it right now because the book store will be closed in 25 minutes," said Smart Alec, and headed to the exit, majority of the seminar participants followed her.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Tue May 31, 2016 1:42 pm

This seminar was about Dianetics. There I learned that an engram has not only verbal content, but also visual one, which was very unsettling for me. The speaker presented several HCOBs upon my request giving examples of visual content which also was supposed to be recalled.

My auditing was going nowhere for almost 7 months -- none of my PCs was doing better. I decided that I should take a look Dianetics case studies similar to clinical studies.

I knew very well how clinical studies should be conducted -- the law firm that I was working for was defending a pharmaceutical company from alleged drug trials violations. I was in charge of preparing statistical data for the trial.

Of course, I didn't have to do statistical research myself (that would require a PhD in Applied Math), I was just selecting the most pertinent data for the trial.

I thought that, perhaps, Hubbard had done similar statistical research of Dianetics data.. The seminar speaker told me that this Dianetics data was kept at Dianeticsc Foundation, which was currently a Class V Org located near Santa Monica beach.

I doctored a fake letter from the head of CMO saying that I was writing an article on early Dianetics research, and needed an assistance from the Org Captain.

The Captain looked at the letter and laughed. "There is no need for this letter. We use this LRH data in our classes. Just go to the basement where everything is stored. Feel free to use our copy machine," he said.

there was plenty of LRH session files in the basement, they all were typed up -- apparently, the Founder was using a typewriter. It was regular Dianetics sessions, there were no clinical trials or anything resembling them.

This either indicated that Dianetics was a fraud or that LRH had no idea how to conduct clinical trials. At that time I was not able to decide which supposition was true.

It took me almost one hour to go through all LRH files. I could have left the basement after that, but I spent another two hours reading "Past lives" data just to entertain myself.

TO BE CONTINUED
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon Jun 06, 2016 4:22 pm

The past lives files had labels on them such as "Bestiality", "Extraterrestrials", "Space stations", etc. The bestiality recollections were too graphic to reproduce them here, so I'll mention just one -- a man had an unnatural relation with his cow because it "greatly improved quality of the milk".

Another man from the "unusual gifts" files had a truly unusual gift -- he could stick a finger in his rectum and fart producing a hissing sound indistinguishable from the one made by a rattle snake. He lived in the wild West, and he could scare shitless a whole saloon. There was a handwritten LRH note on that filer saying "never thought this is possible".

A clever 15-year-old, who lived on a space station, reprogrammed her female robot so it could have sex with her Dad when her Mom was on long missions to Earth and other planets. The Dad thought that he was not cheating on his wife because "robots are not living beings".

I thought that I should look for Dianetics clinical trials elsewhere, if such data existed.

I decided to have a chat with an LRH biographer whom I mentioned at this thread. I knew that he was often having dinners at a Kaiser Permanente cafeteria located right across Big Blue. I went there next day, and found him sitting alone at the table.

TO BE CONTINUED
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon Jun 13, 2016 2:00 pm

Following is a part of my conversation with Norman.

I. Do you know what kind of higher education LRH had?

Norm. He got to the junior level at Washington Univ. then transferred to the Naval Academy.

I. This means that he didn't have a degree in Math or Applied Math.

Norm. Yes. Why this is so important to you?

I. I would like to know if he did Dianetics clinical studies.

Norm. As a matter of fact, he did. He worked together with a group of professional psychologists and mathematicians.

I. Do you know where that data was kept?

Norm. At Dianetics Foundation.

I. I already checked Foundation files. There is nothing there, I assure you.

Norm. I was not referring to the LA Dianetics Foundation. They had another Dianetics Foundation at New York City. But it was closed in 1977, I think.

I. Where is the data now.

Norm.. Here, inside the CMO building. I tried to take a look at it, but no one is allowed to go inside that building. I mean, not a CMO staff member.
I had an introductory letter from Gold Base. But they wouldn't let me in, they said that they do not report to the Gold Base folk. Luckily, I got everything else from the Gold Base files.

I. The scientist who worked with LRH published their articles in the magazines, I am sure of that.

Norm. Yes, they did. The magazine they published in is currently defunct, it was shut down in 1981. There are copies in local libraries, but they are sporadic. I didn't find the articles.
I. Could you give me the magazine title?

Norm. Here it is. Also, you might want the addresses of two libraries which have several copies of the magazine.

As I recall, the magazine title was "Psychology Letters" or "Psychology Reviews" or something like that.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:10 pm

I checked several libraries including the ones recommended by Norm. None of them had all issues of the magazine. However, I found one very interesting article about Scientology processing. The author briefly mentioned Dianetics: he wrote that so far not a single case of the Clear was recorded; then he turned his attention to the old OT stuff.

At that time the OT auditing was based on several LRH books; if my recollection is correct, A History of Man was one of them.

The author sharply criticized Australian report according to which Scientology processing was some kind of hypnosis.; he wrote that this is a classical case of self-induced hallucinations. He interviewed 52 former Scientologists 19 of whom had self-induced hallucinations, the other 33 left CoS because the procedure was useless to them, they didn't recall anything resembling the LRH crap.

now, percentage of people capable of having self-induced hallucination was approximately 37%, which is higher than in general population, 10%. The author concluded that Dianetics auditing was some kind of a filter that helped select the individuals prone to self- induced hallucinations. These folk left Scientology because their hallucinations were "too weird", "completely unreal" etc.

The article' findings didn't surprise me because I never took the OT shit seriously.

According to the article, LRH was a fatso who liked outrageous food combinations. For example, he liked to devour ice cream with herring.

The article author wrote that such strange taste could be an indication of a mental disorder. However, he couldn't say with 100% certainty that the Founder was mentally ill.

I wished that the article had contain more information about Dianetics, but it didn't.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:11 pm

The topic of this seminar was "Scientology Recruitment". At first I was not interested in the seminar. But then I learned that the speaker is not a Scientologist, so I decided to attend it.

The speaker introduced himself as a senior manager working for an advertising company.

"I'm impartial because I'm not a Scientologist; CoS hired our company to determine what kinds of people are most likely to join your group", said the speaker. Then he continued, " L. Ron Hubbard wrote that anyone can become a Scientologists, which is true. But some categories of people require so much convincing that you do not want to waste your time on them. Do you know how many engineers are among the Big Blue stuff? Just one! It is highly unlikely that someone with a BS or higher degree in science or engineering will become a Scientologist".

"Why?" said Smart Alec. "Because they are trained to accept facts only, and they do not take a leap of faith," said the speaker.

"But there are computer programmers in Sea Org, plenty of them," I said. "Majority of them have associate degree in computer science, they are not scientists and engineers," said the speaker.

"What about other people with associate degrees?" said the tall and freckled man. "Those with associate degrees in accounting, electronics, air-conditioning, and similar fields are a fertile recruiting material, they are an easy target," said the speaker.

"What about the writers?" said Smart Alec. "It depends on what kind of books they write. Someone who writes cook books or books on home improvement is a great target. But do not waste your time on sci-fi writers, they are pretty much like scientists and engineers. Fantasy writers are also bad target, ignore them. Stay away from mystery writers -- they will use a CoS material to write books about crime syndicates, as it happened in the past on several occasions," said the speaker.

TO BE CONTINUED
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:04 pm

The speaker said, "You have to know your enemies. Those are the journalists and the nonfiction writers who write biographies. They would say nice things to you about your religion, but all they want is to write negative articles and books about it."

"What about the actors?" said Smart Alec. "Actors and musicians the most dumb people, they are the bread and butter of your recruiting. But, for some reason, artists are the people who the least likely to become Scientologists, so do not waste your time on them," said the speaker.

"What about the people with terminal illnesses? said the freckled man. "The only way to attract them to Scientology is to promise a cure. But all Scientology lawyers would tell you not to make such promises because this opens a door to the lawsuits. You're better off if you leave these people alone," said the speaker.

"You cannot cure anyone with poorly qualified auditors," said Norman the Biographer. "I agree," I said

"What about the college students?" said the Freckles. "We gave them Dianetics books for free, but they didn't have time to read this stuff. There is a myth that college students are susceptible to Scientology because they are lonely and miss their parents, but this is bullshit. The kids are too busy with their midterms and finals and screwing each other, they do not have time for a religion," said the speaker.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:22 pm

The speaker said, "You will have to overcome two major obstacles while selling Scientology. I will start with the first one -- why some Clears wear glasses? When you hear this question, ask a prospect where he met a Clear wearing glasses. Most likely, the meeting took place outside the church property. In this case you say, "This person is not Clear, but he is not a member of our congregation either. He belongs to a splinter Scientology group whose auditors are poorly qualified. But if he says that he met a bespectacled Clear in CoS, there is nothing you can do, move to a next target."

The speaker paused and said, "Some prospects have seen so-called OT data which looks like a sci-fi story to them. In this case follow the official church line -- this is not OT III data. The enemies of Scientology are trying to discredit your religion by using L. Ron Hubbard's screenplay Revolt in the Stars as a basis of their claim that they have an OT data in their possession."

"But is this the real OT data?" said the freckles. "I do not know, and I do not care. Just follow the official church line," said the speaker.

"Some WOGs say that Narconon is bogus," said Smart Alec. "Tell them that the Narconon procedure is based on research done by L. Ron Hubbard, but Narconon itself is not a part of CoS, so the church is not responsible for the mistakes of its owners, " said the speaker.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Wed Jul 13, 2016 1:23 pm

Demented Founder wrote:The speaker said, "You will have to overcome two major obstacles while selling Scientology. I will start with the first one -- why some Clears wear glasses? When you hear this question, ask a prospect where he met a Clear wearing glasses. Most likely, the meeting took place outside the church property. In this case you say, "This person is not Clear, but he is not a member of our congregation either. He belongs to a splinter Scientology group whose auditors are poorly qualified." But if he says that he met a bespectacled Clear in CoS, there is nothing you can do, move to a next target."

The speaker paused and said, "Some prospects have seen so-called OT data which looks like a sci-fi story to them. In this case follow the official church line -- this is not OT III data. The enemies of Scientology are trying to discredit your religion by using L. Ron Hubbard's screenplay Revolt in the Stars as a basis of their claim that they have an OT data in their possession."

"But is this the real OT data?" said the freckles. "I do not know, and I do not care. Just follow the official church line," said the speaker.

"Some WOGs say that Narconon is bogus," said Smart Alec. "Tell them that the Narconon procedure is based on research done by L. Ron Hubbard, but Narconon itself is not a part of CoS, so the church is not responsible for the mistakes of its owners, " said the speaker.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon Jul 18, 2016 1:33 pm

The speaker said, "Be careful when you sell Dianetics. Do not promise any kind of cure, use different approach: ask the prospect what kind of problem he would like to resolve. It could be a financial problem or a family problem or hard working conditions. Tell the prospect that Scientology can solve any kind of marital problem or problem with the kinds. If it is a job-related difficulty, tell the prospect that Scientology can greatly improve his communication skills, and he will easily overcome all job-related obstacles. Some people want to boost their IQ, tell them that Dianetics auditing will help improve that"

"This is a good recruiting approach. But why the Dianetics book is not helping to increase the number of Scientologists as it did during the St. Hill years?" I said. "Because at that time they advertised Dianetics as a panacea for almost all illnesses. But then the FDA stepped in and said that they cannot do that unless they can show case studies proving that their claims are true," said the speaker.

"But what about the Dianetics book itself? Isn't it a great recruiting tool?" said the freckles. "No, it is not. The book is too long and it contains a lot of data that has nothing to do with Dianetics. Only 24% of our responders read the whole book. My suggestion was to cut the book in half. But they said that they are allowed to alter the L. Ron Hubbard legacy," said the speaker.

"Who are they?" I said. "The head of CMO and other senior stuff," said the speaker. '

"The book is really too long. I skipped more than a half of it before I got to Dianetics," I said.

"Isn't that a crime against Scientology?" said the freckles. "Obviously, I was not a Scientologist at that time," I said.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:30 pm

"You bring someone to CoS, get your commissions, and think that's it. But you can make much more money off that person. The recruit trusts you, you can use that rust to make money for yourself. After the recruit finishes one course, tell him that he can take another course at a different CoS branch. Tell him that an excellent course supervisor teaches that course," said the speaker.

"But would that be enough?" said Smart Alec. "Of course, it wouldn't. You have to give him more a tangible incentive. How many of you have a real estate experience?" said the speaker.

I was the only person to raise the hand. "What was your incentive?" said the speaker. "Usually it was either a TV or a VCR. But once I had to buy a mountain bike for my client," I said. "Nicely done," said the speaker.

"Then the speaker said, " In your case an incentive would be either a L. Ron Hubbard tape or a L. Ron Hubbard book," said the speaker.

"But is it legal?" said the freckles.

"Legal, illegal -- what's the difference? You have to take care of yourself. If you don't get the money you deserve, you will stop the recruitment, and the church won't grow. Just remember this -- do not tell the recruit that the incentive comes from you, tell him that it comes from another CoS branch. Otherwise, this looks like a bribe," said the speaker.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon Aug 01, 2016 1:27 pm

The title of this seminar was Neither Enemy Nor Friend, or something like that. The speaker, Marvin, was the same one who conducted the previous seminar.

"Some people, who are not against Scientology, still do not want to join CoS for variety of reasons. I invited some of them to attend this seminar to show you how to distinguish your enemies from people who are indifferent to your religion. I'll begin with myself. I will never become a Scientologist because I am an atheist, so all this thetan data is of no value to me," said Marvin.

"What about Dianetics? LRH wrote that it applies to everyone regardless of their religion or lack of it," I said.

"Let's see what's in it for me. Let's say I reach Level 8, and then get a job at a Scientology franchise. I will be making $ 40 an hour. But my base pay is $ 60 an hour. In addition I have bonuses, so I make about 200 K a year. Therefore, I have no interest in becoming a Class 8 auditor," said Marvin.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon Aug 08, 2016 1:33 pm

"Dawson is my assistant manager. Let's hear his story," said Marvin.

"I am a former Scientologist, I even got to level 3. Then Ron dropped his body, as they said. His autopsy report was published in LA Times. It says that Ron became very ill before he died. I thought that he, being an OT 15, should have been able to cure himself," said Dawson.

"This is a WOF report, it could be false," said the freckles. "I thought about that. But the alternative is even worse. If Ron died as a healthy man, this was a suicide," said Dawson.

"What kind of outcome would you accept?" I said. "I would like Ron to live forever," said Dawson.

"What is your religion now?" I said. "I am a Buddhist," said Dawson.

"Then you should know that LRH is the Buddha<" said the freckles. "But this is another contradiction. According to the first Buddha, the second Buddha, known as Maitreya, will live forever," said Dawson.

"Pobre diablo was no Buddha. You, people, should learn to tell reality from fiction," said the Mexican American who was filming the seminar.

NOTE. The Spanish expression, "Pobre Diablo" literally means "Poor Devil". But this is not a reference to the Devil, a more appropriate translation would be "Ill- fated man".
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:43 pm

The next person to tell her story was a middle-aged woman. She said, "I am Jewish. A lot of us, Jews, have a quarrel with God because he allowed the Holocaust to happen. I was looking for a new religion when I encountered Scientology. At first it was fine, I even got to Level II. But then I read an HCOB saying that a thetan in its highest state can create a universe. This implies that the thetan called God, or Jehovah, created our universe. But what happened to it after the Creation? Did it make an overt by not protecting his people from the Holocaust and plunged to a low state such as the animalistic state or even a lower one? This question bothered me a lot because of the extermination of Jews by Hitler, and possible punishment of God. But there is no data about that thetan, so I left CoS."

"Only 10% of the LRH data has been published. Perhaps, the remaining 90% contain the data about that thetan," said Smart Alec.

"I know that. I mean, I know that only 10% of the LRH data has been revealed. But I need the answer right now," said the woman.

"What is your religion now?" I said. "Buddhism," said the woman.

"Did you find the answer in Buddhism?" I said. "No. But that doesn't matter because Buddha is human, he is not God, so he is not responsible for the Holocaust, " said the woman.
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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Re: What Would You Say to a Lurking Scientologist?

Post by Demented Founder » Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:23 pm

The next speaker was a lawyer whose name was Solomon..

"I represented CoS twice at the medical malpractice trials and won both cases. They wanted me to represent them at the third trial but I declined because by that time I moved to a more lucrative field of the environmental law," said Solomon.

"Do you think that anything is wrong with Scientology?" I said.

"No. But I was the one who developed the guidelines for the church stating that the organization should not promise cure from psychosomatic illnesses to the people who receive Dianetics auditing. As a smart person, you understand that I cannot go against my own guidelines," said Solomon.

"I am smart enough to understand your point. But the unwise ones will be asking you questions, they already have raised their hands," I said.

"Mr. Moxon is a lawyer and a Scientologist. Why you cannon be like him?" said Smart Alec.

Solomon said, " Although I have never met Moxon, I heard a lot about him. I call him Mr. Moron because he tried to convince the church leaders that my guidelines are wrong; it happened two years after I represented the organization. As you can see, the top executives still use my guidelines."
"Cuando el pene de Xenu es adentro de mi culo, estoy inmenso feliz. Eso es manera de que Saentologia funciona. Voy a chingar todos mis aprentizes"
L. Ron Hubbard, Mi Vida Secreta.

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