I've been wondering, now that they're out, if Mike Rinder, Marty Rathburn et al have any truthful information about the apparent suicide of Shawn Londsdale. Can they confirm whether the co$ did or did not have any involvement? Does anyone know their opinion on the subject?

The timeline:

1. Shawn was found dead on February 16th, 2008.

2. Mike Rinder blew in June, 2007 right after the BBC flap. He went to Tom De Vocht's house. De Vocht had blown in 2005.

3. Marty Rathbun blew in 2004.

DM and Tommy Davis would be candidates who have information.

/////

Check your dates. I'm pretty sure Mike and Marty were both out when Shawn died.

Mike and Marty may have been out by the time Shawn died but isn't it possible that they would know some information about patterns/techniques of intimidation?
Shawn was obviously a big problem for OSA during the making of the BBC documentary,so surely Rinder would have been in the midst of all that and possibly witnessed (or felt?)DM's reaction on the Shawn Lonsdale issue.Tommy Davis 'handling' of Shawn on during the documentary showed that they had nothing but contempt for him.As far as TD was concerned,Shawn was simply one of those 'bad,bad,bad men'.

In my opinion,Rinder and Rathbun have a responsibility to tell everything they know relating to OSA's handling of Shawn.Those guys have a long way to go to make up for some of the evil they have been part of.

Ooops sorry about the dates. I wonder if Mike Rinder has anything to say about the discussed strategies for handling Shawn while he was there. Shawn was a thorn in their side before Mr. Rinder left. I've always thought if you showed the circumstances of his death to anyone and asked "what do you think happened here?" that it's always looked a lot more like murder than suicide. Sure, suicide is possible but from what I've read other scenarios have never been sufficiently investigated.

I agree with antiscn.

Mike and Marty may not have been there when Shawn died, but surely they would have been privy to discussions concerning how to "handle" Shawn in the past.

Perhaps the idea of murdering Shawn and making it look like a suicide was discussed. Now, that doesn't mean CO$ did it, but that would be interesting to know.

I am particularly interested to know if anyone at CO$ promoted the idea of death by carbon monoxide by running a hose from the car into the house. This is the first time I have ever heard of anyone doing that.

On the other hand, Mike and Marty might have information that would tend to eliminate CO$ as causing Shawn's death, and I would like to know that as well.

Coincidentally Quentin Hubbard died in a similar way.

Kurt Weiland (Commanding Officer OSA Int.) was in charge when Shawn died, and is in charge since 2003. He knows and ordered it.
Sunshine

What do you mean by "he knows and ordered it"? Are there facts?

Are there facts?
No, I do not have witnessed facts.
I have impressions, because I believe Shawn was too bold to have killed himself.
He died in the same way as Quentin, son of Laffayette Ron Hubbard, which is by itself a very strange coincidence.
That for sure was an ordered event, and I already told you who was in charge at that time. Another person who may have knowledge is Ben Shaw.
Sunshine

Back when I was married, I told the local DSA that my wife was antagonistic toward Scientology. The DSA said, "well, I'll just do what I have to do". That evening when I came home from work, my wife was totally freaked out because she had gotten a threatening phone call complaining that she had no business interfering with me and Scientology, and "we know where you live" and "we're going to get you".

Now, this is just the lower levels of OSA. To them, this kind of thing really looked like the most "ethical" thing to do because they were salvaging a being, after all. Now when it comes to the OSA top brass, do you really think there is a line they won't cross? To them, Shawn Lonsdale was an enemy of mankind and all life.

How about Ken Ogger? Once his identity was made known to OSA, his days were numbered. He was found at the bottom of his swimming pool with his hands and feet tied with wire, curiously at a time when his friends said that he was doing much better in life. Of course, Ken could have saved his own life by stopping his anti-church activities. As Hubbard said, "we regret that they appointed us their executioners".

Plausible denyability and compartmentalization of information are the hallmarks of all dark ops like this, including Quentin Hubbard. Granted, Mary Sue supposedly headed the GO, but Ron seemed to consider his own son more of a liability than anything else. His anger and classic rant "Look what HE did to ME" may have had more to do with the supposed report of semen found in Quentin's rectum than his actual death. Look at the anger -- classic missed withhold phenomena. Poor Mary Sue just wailed and wailed at the loss of her dear son.

I don't think the possibility of LRH having his own son killed is out of the question. He didn't need to do the dirty work himself with such a dedicated organization behind him.

A lot of us have been suspicious of the fishy circumstances surrounding Shawn's death. It's been discussed thoroughly. If the "church" was involved no one is talking. If Mike Rinder reads this board or if someone that knows him reads it, how about asking him what methods were discussed for handling Shawn and what's Mike's opinion about whether the "church" could have been involved?

Maybe it was one of Hubbard's many "behavior
modification" scenarios gone awry....


++++++++++Sacred Cult Scripture+++++++++++++

One could get a catatonic schiz to jump up by walking up,
carefully cocking a pistol and saying, "Well, the poor guy,
he will never be any use to himself or to anybody else. I
guess we might as well kill him. Close the door so the
shot won’t be heard. We’ll tell everybody he committed
suicide."

About that time, he will jump out of bed and say, "No, no!"
And this guy hasn’t moved for five years. He doesn’t
relapse into being a catatonic schiz immediately.

— L. Ron Hubbard
Lecture 28 August 1950: Analytical Mind

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The more I think about this, the more I believe that Mike or Marty know what happened to Shawn.

However, perhaps they believe that, legally, they cannot comment. Unless I am mistaken, their public statements consist of things which they experienced personally, no speculation and no hearsay.