CCHR's Mary Panton (DeMoss) Blows from CoS!

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Roan
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Post by Roan » Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:34 am

Scientology would have only contributed to the "nastiness" of Mary DeMoss's personality. She would have always had that in her and would have been attracted to the positions she occupied because of it.

People with certain personality traits gravitate to positions and roles that accentuate or capitalize on said traits.

IMO, I think WBM should stay well clear of a dinner-date :wink: with Mary DeMoss, who is I'm sure, a certifiable ball-buster.

Nothing wrong with the word amends, IMO... it means to change, to better something. It does not mean to apologize, as an apology without amends is meaningless and in fact, often serves to increase the injury.
“The failure to condemn an activity is indeed, an offer of tacit approval.
All it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.” — Edmund Burke

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Sponge
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Post by Sponge » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:52 pm

Roan wrote: People with certain personality traits gravitate to positions and roles that accentuate or capitalize on said traits.
:yeahthat:

You see that in all walks of life. Particularly in strong hierarchical carrot/stick systems were there is supposed to be some kind of "greater good", at any personal cost, or the "you're with us or you're against us" meme running through it.

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lucy skywalker
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Post by lucy skywalker » Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:57 pm

Ladybird wrote:Mary was NOT Sea Org. Mary was an OSA volunteer, and she was employed by Bennetta Slaughter. (Google Bennetta). Mary helped Bennetta remove Lisa McPherson from Morton Plant Hospital and delivered Lisa to Flag, where Lisa died 17 days later. Mary then was promoted to Lisa's job (where she made around 100K/year). Mary was deposed in the Lisa case. Mary testified on behalf of the cult before the state legislature and was a spokesperson for scientology in many venues.

I am happy if Mary is out, but come on, she was no angel. All this talk about how she needs "time and space" to find herself is well and good, but she 1st needs to wake up and face the truth. I sincerely hope she will put her abundant energy in to exposing the scam she and many of us were conned by. Scientology most certainly harmed and did not help Mary's career, reputation and life.

Having dinner with WBM would be a good start!!
Ladybird,

Would you ask a person with a severely fractured leg to run a hundred mile dash?
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[i]beyond_horizons ... rest in peace dear friend[/i]

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J. Swift
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Post by J. Swift » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:32 pm

More data on Mary: She is in limbo and has not been declared. She is said to be in that state of unbelief that Mgmt screwed her over as badly as is reported to me by my source.

Mary: How long will you stay at home wondering if you can work you way back into the group? And will DM ever allow you back in? Worse, assuming you get back in, it may likely be the RPF for you, perhaps even the infamous SP Hall at Int Base. Why would DM ever let you skip doing RPF when he RPF'd the likes of Heber, Warren, Marty, Mike, and people who had far more power than you? If they did not escape DM's psycho-sadistic punishment, why would you? Everyone, seemingly, gets RPF'd when they get too big in the Church. RPF is DM's way of saying that you are not great or powerful like him and that you must suffer because it is all your fault.

The details of your status are known widely in the Church. Certain Scientologists think less of you and are nattering. How else would someone like me know you were busted unless there was gossip? Your own fellow Scientologists have ridiculed you: She pulled it in. She is PTS. She is SP. She was busted.

Mary. you are being treated badly. You should consider why people like Mike Rinder blew. You should ask why DM smokes and drinks and uses an inhaler. Why is Scn falling apart Mary? And what will you do to help yourself get your life back?

/////
Last edited by J. Swift on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:41 pm

Lucy, my point was that we shouldn't just automatically trust Mary even if she is out. We can care about her, help her and forgive her, but trust has to be earned.

I agree with Roan and Sponge that people do have certain talents and personality traits. Scientology takes those traits and twists them and uses them.

If it is something good, scientology takes credit for creating it, "making the able more able". Examples would be how they used Tory as a front person because she is attractive and well spoken, or how they use actors as a symbol of success.

If it is something bad, scientology will still use it to make money and hurt people, but if the person gets caught they will deny any responsibility. Examples of that would be Reed Slatkin who scammed millions from people, or the shady lawyers and PIs they use to intimidate and harrass people.

There are many ex-scientologists who have woken up and apologised and are trying to make amends for things they did while in the cult, such as harrassing people, recruiting people, regging people, disconnecting from people, telling "acceptable truths", etc.

There are plenty of people in the real world and even in my own family I have learned not to trust.

We just have to wait and see who the real Mary turns out to be, if she is even really out.
[i]"There is nothing as wild in the books of Man as will probably happen here on Earth...it will happen and be allowed to happen simply because all this is so incredible that nobody will even think of stopping it until it is far, far too late"~LRH[/i]

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Hoot
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Post by Hoot » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:54 pm

When I want calming answers....I read Ladybirds posts....

Just to add....we all have our faults...and we all have our strengths....

I wonder if the coS is approaching mayhem yet?

"Use civil authorities when absolutely necessary, as in embezzlement or mayhem, but try to operate without calling in local law. We always do better ourselves or with private detectives... there are times when it's vitally necessary to put some head, any head, on a pike to quell rising disorder."

Love<

Hoot
Tom, Tom, Tom, you're glib. You don't know the History of $cientology...we do.

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brownjedi
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Post by brownjedi » Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:57 pm

I hope that this woman realizes the abuses and the murder that she helped take part in and turns that knowledge against the cult. She is no angel, but does have an opportunity to do some good.

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lucy skywalker
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Post by lucy skywalker » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:00 pm

Ladybird wrote:Lucy, my point was that we shouldn't just automatically trust Mary even if she is out. We can care about her, help her and forgive her, but trust has to be earned.

I agree with Roan and Sponge that people do have certain talents and personality traits. Scientology takes those traits and twists them and uses them.

If it is something good, scientology takes credit for creating it, "making the able more able". Examples would be how they used Tory as a front person because she is attractive and well spoken, or how they use actors as a symbol of success.

If it is something bad, scientology will still use it to make money and hurt people, but if the person gets caught they will deny any responsibility. Examples of that would be Reed Slatkin who scammed millions from people, or the shady lawyers and PIs they use to intimidate and harrass people.

There are many ex-scientologists who have woken up and apologised and are trying to make amends for things they did while in the cult, such as harrassing people, recruiting people, regging people, disconnecting from people, telling "acceptable truths", etc.

There are plenty of people in the real world and even in my own family I have learned not to trust.

We just have to wait and see who the real Mary turns out to be, if she is even really out.
Trust, is key. I agree it is something to be earned.

And yes we have to wait and see who the real Mary turns out to be, if she is even really out.

You and I can agree on some things, though we are very different. Coming out of this situation is traumatic. I feel support and compassion are necessary for her to continue to awaken.

Many of us got caught in the trap and the best of ourselves were exploited by the cult. Experiencing this and learning to trust oneself again is a process. I feel it takes great care, faith and love to assist a person in this situation. A bit of tough love can be necessary, in time. I say give the gal a chance.

If I have a broken leg darlin' I ain't coming to you for support! :wink:
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[i]beyond_horizons ... rest in peace dear friend[/i]

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daisy
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Post by daisy » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:11 pm

J. Swift:
it may likely be the RPF for you, perhaps even the infamous SP Hall at Int Base.
Won't happen, she is public.

Tralfamador:
But what could she find out? There's nothing more to know than on enturb ect.
People's identities. It is driving scientology beserk that they do not know the identities of anonymous. It is harder to intimidate not knowing who the person is.

For those who are not anonymous and have already outed themselves, there is no harm. But for those who wish to remain anonymous, I would be very careful before extending any olive branch to DeMoss.

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Ladybird
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Post by Ladybird » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:23 pm

Lucy wrote:If I have a broken leg darlin' I ain't coming to you for support!
Lucy, you have no idea how funny that is!!! If you came to me with a broken leg I would not let you lay around feeling sorry for yourself and being a victim. I would drag you up out of bed, make you do your physical therapy and fold the laundry or do something useful.

Not as punishment, but for your own good. It is not helpful to any kind of recovery to lay around wallowing in ones misery being coddled by well meaning co-dependents. You really could get pnuemonia! (Contrary to scientology beliefs, pnuemonia does NOT come from reading the OT levels!)
[i]"There is nothing as wild in the books of Man as will probably happen here on Earth...it will happen and be allowed to happen simply because all this is so incredible that nobody will even think of stopping it until it is far, far too late"~LRH[/i]

brownjedi
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Post by brownjedi » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:28 pm

(Contrary to scientology beliefs, pnuemonia does NOT come from reading the OT levels!)
No, but I can see where one would become suicidal after reading the OT levels and then realizing that you are now out hundreds of thousands of dollars.

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NattyP
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Post by NattyP » Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:42 pm

For what it's worth, I reckon Mary DeMoss is in the midst of an INTENSE religious discernment process. I've been mulling her potential state of mind over (I know MANY of you good folk have been there) and the closest I can come is that she's in the final stages of her postulancy and deciding whether or not she's going to take those solemn vows. Does she plight her troth to the "church" and all that goes with it, or does she leave, after great expenditure of emotional, material and intellectual capital?

She probably feels like she's been punched in the solar plexus and that's not a good place from which to make a decision.

I wish her peace. I wish her quiet time to come away and be apart from the cult.

I hope she can forgive herself. But part of that forgiveness, both being and doing, is ATONEMENT. Hopefully, sooner rather than later, she will have the courage to tell the truth about Lisa and, doubtless, many other things that trouble her mind and heart.

Let's be a place where Mary can have her own Yom Kippur. Let's be that place for everybody who is on the fence.
John Carmichael: Are you a homo? Have you come out of the closet?
ANONYMOUS: You're wearing tweed in the summer and you're asking ME if I'm a faggot? Xenu please ...
John Carmichael: What?

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magitad
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Post by magitad » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:02 pm

From what I understand, Mary had a career teaching theater to kids at one time.

That's a wonderful vocation and still a viable option for her, I would think. Mary, if you're reading this I hope you will get in touch. You know as well as I do how much Florida kids need high quality arts education experiences.

I don't believe Scientology has killed that motivation in you, or that you taught theater techniques to kids just to get them to sign up for Scientology. You have, as demonstrated in the YouTube videos, excellent energy and tenacity. Use the force for good, Mary! I know that's what you thought you were doing all along.

They messed with you.

You have nothing to be embarassed about. Come on out and get a hug, and let's get to work doing something good.

And I'd seriously consider taking Mark Bunker up on his offer. He is an excellent dinner companion. I think you'd like him. You're allowed to now.

-maggie, human being
-maggie, human being

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lucy skywalker
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Post by lucy skywalker » Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:10 pm

Ladybird wrote:
Lucy wrote:If I have a broken leg darlin' I ain't coming to you for support!
Lucy, you have no idea how funny that is!!! If you came to me with a broken leg I would not let you lay around feeling sorry for yourself and being a victim. I would drag you up out of bed, make you do your physical therapy and fold the laundry or do something useful.

Not as punishment, but for your own good. It is not helpful to any kind of recovery to lay around wallowing in ones misery being coddled by well meaning co-dependents. You really could get pnuemonia! (Contrary to scientology beliefs, pnuemonia does NOT come from reading the OT levels!)
Again Lovely Ladybird I wouldn't come to you upon the breaking of my leg. AFTER the needed rest and recovery, as that is part of the process, I would definitely enjoy and love the spirit of your whipper snapper self. I would be running the 100 yard dash in no time. Remember, there is a moment of breath to be taken and some needed rest and reflection. Rome wasn't built in day.

Darlin' maybe you need to cut yourself a break?!?!? Hmmmm! Not talkin' about victim hood here missy ... love yourself ladybird! :wink: :D
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[i]beyond_horizons ... rest in peace dear friend[/i]

JohnS
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Post by JohnS » Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:18 pm

Wieber wrote:There is another thing here. Mary was no angel. She was involved in some nasty business. Hell, she was in the cult and brainwashed. What she did on behalf of the cult was done while in that state and while believing that what was being done was ultimately for the greater good.

I was in the same boat. If I had been around while Lisa was in trouble I probably would have participated as well if asked or directed. I would have felt bad about what befell her but I would have "known" it was for the 'greater good.'

To varying degrees almost everyone I knew "in" scientology had done nasty things to other people. That's one of the disgusting things about scientology. It makes monsters out of everyone it captures. The only difference among the members, staff and public, is the degree to which they become a monster.

I'm not writing this so you will excuse the actions of those who were "in" but so that you will have a little better understanding of how and why good people can come to do those nasty things.
So basically these people might be tempted to offer the Nurnberg
Trials defense of the accused Nazi war criminals in 1947...
"I was merely following orders"?

With all the corporate malfescance about these days, what didn't
work fior the Nazis might work for any Scientologist hauled before
a court of law for their various criminal acts. Seems like the
social concepts of right and wrong have changed considerably
over the past 60 years. The American mind as I read it would
have alot of sympathy for the "underling" called to account for
criminal acts committed as a result of orders from above.
Especially if the individual accused gained nothing from committing
the crime. That lets 99% of Scientologists off the hook..unless
they did something really hideous like outright murder or
chiild molestation or something of that ilk.

It would be well though, for those still "in" to contemplate the
fate of Mary Sue Hubbard and her cadre when the government
got them dead to rights in the IRS breakin case. Hubbard's
own wife was thrown to the wolves to save Hubbard.
Mary Sue was said to be a "rogue" and that her actions
had nothing to do with the the saintly leaders of Scientology.
Remember that if you think the "church" will stand behind
you if you get caught in some nefarious deed. They will not.

There is no rational reason to stick with scientology. Scientology
is all take and no give. It is pretty cheesey when compared
to other criminal organizations such as drug gangs, the mafia etc.
They at least reward thier members financially, everyone gets
a cut of the take.

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