How I Fooled the E-meter.

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Demented LRH
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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Mon Aug 12, 2013 2:04 pm

The first HCOB about the e-meter that I read was saying that the device is a simplified version of the lie detector. That made no sense to me because the lie detector cannot be used in Dianetics auditing for obvious reason -- it was not designed to detect if an engram was erased.

Later I learned that the e-meter is used for security checks, which, perhaps, was the reason why Hubbard called it an unsophisticated lie detector.

As the statistical data shows, in 80% of the cases the lie detector gives incorrect readings. But that means that the e-meter gives incorrect readings in roughly 89% of the cases (the e-meter measures only one variable, while average lie detector measures 8 variables such as blood pressure, rate of perspiration, heart rate, etc).

No wonder why the e-meter sends the innocent Sea Org members to RPF in large numbers. But without the e-meter RPF would have been 9 times smaller its current size.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:04 pm

Several people have reported that when a large slave-labor project was needed, people were thrown into the RPF for trivial or non-existent reasons. The e-meter's inaccuracy allows for any conclusion that is convenient for CoS. So if Tom Cruise's needle wavers when asked about something, that's forgiven, but when a bunch of slaves are needed, and the needle wavers during a sec check of a lowly Sea Org person, CoS plays judge, jury, and jailor for NO CRIME.

In the US, this violates the Fifth Amendment in two ways: "No person... shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property without due process of law"

The Fifth Amendment is the reason for the US law* against employers using lie detectors on workers. CoS violates this specific law blatantly.

CoS forces the person to sign that he or she is volunteering for the RPF imprisonment, on threat of disconnection from family. This is disgusting coercion and is not valid.

Furthermore, there is no law giving CoS the power to try and imprison people. CoS is not the government of the US, or the armed forces, or a state, a county, a city, or a town, so nothing CoS does is "due process"

* http://www.dol.gov/compliance/guide/eppa.htm

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Wed Aug 14, 2013 2:09 pm

The lie detector is used to either confirm or disprove that certain events happened in the past. For example, the subject may be asked following questions, “Did you commit a murder?”, “Did you sell drugs?”, “Did you steal someone’s money”, etc.

The e-meter is used to find answers to the same questions. In addition it is used to evaluate person’s intentions and thoughts. The subject is often asked the following questions, “Do you have a desire to harm Scientology?”, “Do you think that the sec checks are too intrusive?”, etc.

This is exactly where the e-meter fallacy lies: The answers to these questions depend on subject’s personality, not on facts.

For example, I tried to steal an e-meter when I was in Sea Org. I didn’t think that I was trying to harm CoS because that particular device was not in use, it was just sitting in an LRH office.

Someone else could have thought that, by trying to steal an LRH e-meter, he was contemplating to harm CoS -- although the device was not in use, the purpose of theft was to sell it to a Scientology student, which would lead to decline in the church’s profits.

In more complicated cases it is even harder to evaluate person’s intentions. For example, a devoted Scientologist might think that DM is an usurper, so an answer to the question “Are you trying to harm CoS?” depends on his personality and not on something that he did.

As it turns out, these questions about person’s intention are the main reason why so many Sea Org members were undeservingly sent to RPF.

OSA monitors may think that they are untouchable and will never be assigned to RPF. But this is just a wishful thinking, their chance of going to RPF is quite high, they are no different from other Sea Org members whose careers were destroyed by the e-meter.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Sat Aug 17, 2013 3:24 pm

Below is an evaluation of the e-meter done by the professionals:

“A number of government witnesses in the Food and Drug Administration's case against the meter also agreed that its functioning was considerably less than perfect. George Montgomery, Chief of the Measurement Engineering Division of the National Bureau of Standards, and Dr. John I. Lacey, Chairman of the Department of Psychophysiology and Neurophysiology at Fels Research Institute in Yellow Springs, stated that the E-meter "failed to meet the commonly accepted criterion by which such an instrument is judged."

This was because:

The E-meter has no device to control the constancy of current.

Holding a can in the hand permits great variations in the area of the skin in contact with the metal electrodes, and would allow great variation in the amount of actively sweaty tissue that is in contact with it.

The instrument is subject to polarization.

It is not a quantitative instrument due to uncontrollable variations in skin contact and current.

These experts also explained that the machine was not really a measure of skin resistance at all, but partially a reading of how firmly the individual was grasping the can; if the person squeezed the can, there was more contact, and apparent skin resistance would drop. If he held the cans loosely, the apparent skin resistance would simply increase“.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shel ... os-18.html
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

Don Carlo
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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Don Carlo » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:17 pm

Seeing threats, feds target instructors of polygraph-beating methods, by Marisa Taylor and Cleve R. Wootson Jr., Aug. 16, 2013, McClatchy, http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/08/16/1 ... rylink=cpy

This article appeared in some newspapers this morning.

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Wieber
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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Wieber » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:46 pm

Theoretically a psychopath, a person without a conscience, would always pass a lie detector test, even though telling lies about absolutely everything, even trivial matters, is a major attribute of such individuals. The very people that an organization would want to filter out just pass right through undetected without any training.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by TheGodsWatchCartoons » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:49 pm

Demented LRH wrote:The first HCOB about the e-meter that I read was saying that the device is a simplified version of the lie detector. That made no sense to me because the lie detector cannot be used in Dianetics auditing for obvious reason -- it was not designed to detect if an engram was erased.

Later I learned that the e-meter is used for security checks, which, perhaps, was the reason why Hubbard called it an unsophisticated lie detector.

As the statistical data shows, in 80% of the cases the lie detector gives incorrect readings. But that means that the e-meter gives incorrect readings in roughly 89% of the cases (the e-meter measures only one variable, while average lie detector measures 8 variables such as blood pressure, rate of perspiration, heart rate, etc).
The point being: it's still a flippin' lie detector. Or as this site flatly states, "a crude lie detector". Which explains why it didn't take rocket science to throw it off.
Wieber wrote:In Scientology the e-meter is regarded as a holy artifact. ... "That's a Scientology religious artifact and he's not allowed to have it."
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I checked — technically 'artifact' has five different definitions, two of which this thing mostly fits. But I think the third one really nails it: "any mass-produced, usually inexpensive object reflecting contemporary society or popular culture". Indeed.
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I AM THE ANTI-CRUISE.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Tue Aug 20, 2013 1:34 pm

EXPERIMENT.

Grab e-meter cans and read the following:

“The anatomy of reality is contained in Is-ness, which is composed of As-is-ness and Alter-is-ness. Is-ness is an apparency, it is not an Actuality. The Actuality is As-is-ness altered so as to obtain a persistency.
Unreality is the consequence and apparency of the practice of Not-is-ness”
L. Ron Hubbard, The Creation of Human Ability.

Do not try to clear the words because this is useless. Instead say to yourself, “This is gibberish”. There is a 50% chance that your needle will be floating. In other words, there is a 50% chance that you will set yourself free from Scientology.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:32 pm

Even Hubbard the Idiot had doubts about validity of the e-meter. In 1954 he wrote:

“Yesterday, we used an instrument called an E-Meter to register whether or not the process was still getting results so that the auditor would know how long to continue it. While the E-Meter is an interesting investigation instrument and has played its part in research, it is not today used by the auditor.... As we long ago suspected, the intervention of a mechanical gadget between the auditor and the preclear had a tendency to depersonalize the session”.

But later Hubbard and the top CoS management realized that this expensive device could be used to bilk the Scientologists.

“Scientology engineers manufactured a similar type of E-meter device, and this began usage in the movement in 1958. The version of the E-meter developed by Joe Wallis and Don Breeding was powered by a battery and was smaller than Mathison's device“.
Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volney_Mathison
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by bparker230 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:50 pm

Demented LRH wrote:If you want to fool the e-meter, apply as little pressure as possible to its cans. No matter what you say, the dumb machine will confirm that you are telling the truth.

.
Yeah, "Squeeze the cans please"...No thank you. As a technician, I believe that squeezing or releasing the cans decreases or increases conduction, which naturally causes the needle to move. As it was explained to me, the meter passes a small current through your body and measures your body's resistance to it. The e-meter will not get good "reads" if you are loosely holding the cans, if you are wearing tight clothing, your hands are dry, etc., because your body will be less conductive. At least that's my theory.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by bparker230 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:00 pm

Wieber wrote:Theoretically a psychopath, a person without a conscience, would always pass a lie detector test, even though telling lies about absolutely everything, even trivial matters, is a major attribute of such individuals. The very people that an organization would want to filter out just pass right through undetected without any training.
The e-meter being a crude lie detector, it's no wonder that the Co$ is full of psychopaths.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by bparker230 » Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:24 pm

Demented LRH wrote:Even Hubbard the Idiot had doubts about validity of the e-meter. In 1954 he wrote:

“Yesterday, we used an instrument called an E-Meter to register whether or not the process was still getting results so that the auditor would know how long to continue it. While the E-Meter is an interesting investigation instrument and has played its part in research, it is not today used by the auditor.... As we long ago suspected, the intervention of a mechanical gadget between the auditor and the preclear had a tendency to depersonalize the session”.

But later Hubbard and the top CoS management realized that this expensive device could be used to bilk the Scientologists.

“Scientology engineers manufactured a similar type of E-meter device, and this began usage in the movement in 1958. The version of the E-meter developed by Joe Wallis and Don Breeding was powered by a battery and was smaller than Mathison's device“.
Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volney_Mathison
And in a 1965 interview, one of 2 that I know to exist, Hubbard was questioned about it.
This is my transcription from youtube (I'll leave the link).

Q. Is there any equipment used in processing?

LRH " Yes, we have a meter, one of the most misunderstood objects that anyone had anything to do with. And the meter simply shows where an individual is aberated, and...uh.. The lie detector, of course, is not a lie detector. It doesn't detect lies, it only detects disagreements. You ask the fellow, 'Did you murder the girl?' And he disagrees with murdering a girl, and of course he gets a reaction on the lie detector and they take him out to the electric chair and electrocute him. Uh..Lie detectors are no good."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FNU#t=2652

I never trusted the e-meter. In the few months I was in the SO, I saw so many end up "disappearing" at first, and then saw them running in black uniforms. Some of them were assholes/bitches to me before, so I didn't really care about them. Then there were those who I KNEW should not be on the RPF. That scared me early on, and I got the hell out.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:35 pm

bparker230 wrote:
Demented LRH wrote:If you want to fool the e-meter, apply as little pressure as possible to its cans. No matter what you say, the dumb machine will confirm that you are telling the truth.

.
Yeah, "Squeeze the cans please"...No thank you. As a technician, I believe that squeezing or releasing the cans decreases or increases conduction, which naturally causes the needle to move. As it was explained to me, the meter passes a small current through your body and measures your body's resistance to it. The e-meter will not get good "reads" if you are loosely holding the cans, if you are wearing tight clothing, your hands are dry, etc., because your body will be less conductive. At least that's my theory.
Hello bp!
Your theory is correct. I wouldn't call it a theory, though -- this is an empirical data.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:27 pm

The e-meter was invented by Volney Mathison, who was a chiropractor and a psychoanalyst (he was also a writer); he was using the device to detect changes in his patients’ mental states.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volney_Mathison

Although initially the device was popular among the chiropractors, currently it is no longer in use. The psychoanalysts never used it.

Both chiropractic and psychoanalysis are pseudo-sciences, which means that the e-meter is also a pseudo-scientific device. But even if it were a workable device, its purpose is very different from the one assigned to it by Hubbard. I do not think that it is possible to design a device with one goal in mind, and then use it for a completely different set of goals, especially for communication with the spirits (thetans).
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

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Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by bparker230 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 3:28 pm

One thing that I never understood about the e-meter was the use of cans. One slight bit of extra grip gets a read. Hell, even swaying the cans back and forth gets a read (I saw that during courses, it simulates a floating needle).
I bought a Mark V (piece of shit) "work horse" for about $500 when I bought the auditor's training package for about 10K. I was on the M1 co-audit course, at almost to the point were I was going to actually start using the meter when, SHIT!, they talked me into joining the SO instead. So I never got "formal training" in the use of an e-meter. About 3 years ago, I finally just threw it in the trash. I didn't see the use in keeping it. I left $cientology 17 years ago.

As I said, I never understood the use of cans. In my line of work, we wear ESD wrist straps to protect sensitive electronic equipment from damaging static discharge. When I had 2 of them at home, and still had my Mark V, I placed a wrist strap on each wrist, removed the cans and clipped the e-meter to the wrist straps. Then I placed my arms firmly on the table, and got reads!. I was thinking of anything possible on which I had charge and was getting reads just from my wrists. The e-meter really is a skin galvanometer.

I know next to nothing about actual lie detectors. But I do know that they do not use cans. There are multiple sensors placed on the skin throughout the body that measure anything from respiration to perspiration, pulse, etc., etc.,

If I am wrong, could someone please enlighten me on the benefit of using cans in a crude lie detector device? Maybe I am just missing something.

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