How I Fooled the E-meter.

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
Post Reply
User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10238
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Wieber » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:14 pm

I can't answer your question, bparker230. I have something to add. The e-meter used to come with alligator clips.
Image
These were used to grab the side of the cans that had the lids removed. The preferred cans to use were Campbell soup cans.
Image
Now the e-meter doesn't use cans. It uses electrodes. The e-meter comes with a set of different sizes of plated metal cylinders.
Image
They attach to the e-meter with banana plugs.
Image
When I said something about 'the cans' I got dirty looks and was corrected. "They're called electrodes."
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by bparker230 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:11 pm

Thanks Wieber.
The "electrodes" in the picture look more similar to what I had and saw during my involvement in $cientology. But the top of them looks like solid metal and I don't see alligator clips. Maybe they changed the design a bit and started calling them electrodes to make it seem more technical.

I never heard them called "electrodes", they always called them cans. It was in the 90's so they may have changed what they call them since then. They always said "pick up the cans" and "squeeze the cans", so it sounds strange to me that they call them electrodes now. The alligator clips were also used. I don't remember ever seeing the Campbell soup cans used while I was in but I've read somewhere that they were used at one time.

User avatar
Demented LRH
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 pm
Location: New York City, NY, USA

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:40 pm

bparker230 wrote:One thing that I never understood about the e-meter was the use of cans. One slight bit of extra grip gets a read. Hell, even swaying the cans back and forth gets a read (I saw that during courses, it simulates a floating needle).
I bought a Mark V (piece of shit) "work horse" for about $500 when I bought the auditor's training package for about 10K. I was on the M1 co-audit course, at almost to the point were I was going to actually start using the meter when, SHIT!, they talked me into joining the SO instead. So I never got "formal training" in the use of an e-meter. About 3 years ago, I finally just threw it in the trash. I didn't see the use in keeping it. I left $cientology 17 years ago.

As I said, I never understood the use of cans. In my line of work, we wear ESD wrist straps to protect sensitive electronic equipment from damaging static discharge. When I had 2 of them at home, and still had my Mark V, I placed a wrist strap on each wrist, removed the cans and clipped the e-meter to the wrist straps. Then I placed my arms firmly on the table, and got reads!. I was thinking of anything possible on which I had charge and was getting reads just from my wrists. The e-meter really is a skin galvanometer.

I know next to nothing about actual lie detectors. But I do know that they do not use cans. There are multiple sensors placed on the skin throughout the body that measure anything from respiration to perspiration, pulse, etc., etc.,

If I am wrong, could someone please enlighten me on the benefit of using cans in a crude lie detector device? Maybe I am just missing something.
Hubbard wanted to use the e-meter as a version of the lie detector, that is why he kept comparing these two apparatuses. But they have nothing in common because, as you noted, lie detectors do not have cans. A subject could have sweaty palms, which affects the readings to such degree that makes them unreliable.

I know a bit about the lie detectors, they are used to measure the parameters such as heart beat rate, blood pressure, rate of perspiration, etc. but even they are not 100% reliable, their success rate is 80%.

You made a hasty decision to get rid of your e-meter, you could have sold it at eBay and recovered at least half of its cost.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by bparker230 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 5:22 pm

Yes, my decision to take my Mark V out with the garbage was hasty in a way. The only reason I even kept it for so long was the thought in the back of my mind that maybe I could recover some cash for it. I finally said "To hell with it!" I would have flushed it down the toilet if that were possible.

The ESD ground (wrist) straps that I mentioned follow the same principle as the cans. Every day we are required to connect it to the tester and verify that it is working. Rarely, my skin is dry and it doesn't pass. That's why there is ESD lotion (silicon free) at the test station. I got the idea of using these wrist straps instead of the cans and found that you could get reads without a grip or any movement.

AFAIK, or at least last I heard, courts in general do not allow lie detector test results as evidence in a criminal trial due to unreliability.


Image

This is the type of wrist strap (one on each wrist) I used in place of the cans.

User avatar
Demented LRH
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 pm
Location: New York City, NY, USA

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Mon Sep 23, 2013 1:23 pm

bparker230 wrote: AFAIK, or at least last I heard, courts in general do not allow lie detector test results as evidence in a criminal trial due to unreliability.


Image

This is the type of wrist strap (one on each wrist) I used in place of the cans.
Yes, the lie detector results are not admissible in the court of law, unless this is the Scientology court.

I have a list of CoS sec check questions in my computer, but cannot find it now. The last 5 or 6 questions are about the overt acts that occurred in the person’s past lives. One of the questions is, “Did you come to Earth to do harm?”. Now, suppose a Sea Org member replies to this question with NO, but his needle is not floating. Would it be enough to send him to RPF? Frankly, I don’t know the answer.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by bparker230 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:24 pm

Shouldn't the sec check question be "Did you come to Teegeeack to do harm"? And if you are covered with space cooties could that affect your reads? So many unanswered questions!!!

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10238
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Wieber » Tue Sep 24, 2013 4:34 am

From what Hubbs wrote, space cooties don't become an issue until a person goes clear. From clear to OT-3 is the "non interference zone" where no other auditing action except OT-1, OT-2 and OT-3 are permitted. From what I've read my understanding is that this directive is now observed in the breach. Because, you know, money money money is the most important thing.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

User avatar
Demented LRH
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 pm
Location: New York City, NY, USA

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Tue Sep 24, 2013 1:21 pm

In his idiotic book, A History of Man, Hubbard wrote that vast majority of the thetans came to Earth several thousands years ago, which means that they didn't received implants at the Xenu implant stations. Go figure!

"A History of Man" was written before the Xenu story, so there are bound to be contradictions between the book and the Xenu data.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

User avatar
bparker230
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:42 pm

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by bparker230 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:22 pm

The space cooties, according to Hubbard, were already on teegeeack (earth) 75 million years ago. The genetic entity (GE) was also there before thetans, building and controlling non-human bodies, including the homo sapiens. So we "thetans" just came here a few thousand years ago and wanted to "play a game" and there were bodies, controlled by genetic entities and covered with space cooties, that just happened to be available. :huh:

User avatar
Demented LRH
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 pm
Location: New York City, NY, USA

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:23 pm

^^ In short, Scientology makes no sense.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

doodledoo
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:21 am

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by doodledoo » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:47 am

I found one of those things at a yard sale in the 80's. As my passion was electronics I had to get it. It cost a buck. Tore it apart, its more of less an ohm meter. I was hoping it was an electronic test instrument but it turned out not to be. Ended up chucking it.

User avatar
Demented LRH
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 pm
Location: New York City, NY, USA

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:31 pm

doodledoo wrote:I found one of those things at a yard sale in the 80's. As my passion was electronics I had to get it. It cost a buck. Tore it apart, its more of less an ohm meter. I was hoping it was an electronic test instrument but it turned out not to be. Ended up chucking it.
Yes, it is a slightly modified ohm meter. The modification made it unbalanced, so it cannot be used to measure anything correctly -- its needle is supposed to be in a constant motion, which makes impossible to take any reading.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

doodledoo
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:21 am

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by doodledoo » Sat Oct 12, 2013 12:05 am

I do remember one thing that I was impressed about that Mark 5, it was the craftsmanship, inside. Very beautiful.
I am not trying to offend, someone here mentioned good diodes bad diodes. Ha Ha you can make one of those things out of any old yard sale electronic junk. Quality is no real issue in something that crude.
But I think I can do better, how about a free e-meter for ever man, woman, goldfish and tomato on earth :)
Is this a bad idea?

User avatar
Demented LRH
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 pm
Location: New York City, NY, USA

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by Demented LRH » Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:21 pm

doodledoo wrote:I do remember one thing that I was impressed about that Mark 5, it was the craftsmanship, inside. Very beautiful.
I am not trying to offend, someone here mentioned good diodes bad diodes. Ha Ha you can make one of those things out of any old yard sale electronic junk. Quality is no real issue in something that crude.
But I think I can do better, how about a free e-meter for ever man, woman, goldfish and tomato on earth :)
Is this a bad idea?
The craftsmanship is remarkable, I agree with that. However, even a crude device should be able to produce readings, which is not the case of the e-meter – when it is in the ideal state, its needle is supposed to be floating (moving), which precludes any readings.

Hubbard didn’t invent the device, its inventor was a chiropractor who wanted to promote his pseudo-science.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

doodledoo
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:21 am

Re: How I Fooled the E-meter.

Post by doodledoo » Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:35 pm

I have no doubt Hubbard was not the craftsman who actually made it.

But I have a real question. I was not joking about drastically reducing the cost of the e-meter to maybe 5 bucks, not to mention improved and new features, near unlimited personalization. And CoS would be completely powerless to stop it. I don't know if it is a good idea to do that. One thought is it might help undermine the official CoS and give aid to the those outside of the official CoS.
I just don't know if its a good idea or not. :?

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: alieglenaist and 7 guests