Where to put this?

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
Post Reply
User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Wed Jul 23, 2014 10:12 pm

Just because I left Scientology doesn't mean I stopped trying.

Let's just run down a few things with Scientology

--Environmental issues - Scientology opts out.
--Drugs - Scientology gets PR and takes money for an ineffective program.
--War - Scientology does lip service and takes money for The Way to Happiness.
--Personal Self Improvement - Scientology uses this as bait to get people to be followers.
Once recruited Scientology gets its followers to give it money and work as slaves.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

Nom de Plume
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Nom de Plume » Thu Jul 24, 2014 8:23 pm

Nom de Plume wrote:Only sadness that it's not going to happen that way after all.
Wieber wrote:Just because I left Scientology doesn't mean I stopped trying.
Me, either. But the glorious feeling of impending victory is gone, replaced by a dogged determination to endure a holding action from the trenches for the remainder of my life.
Wieber wrote:Let's just run down a few things with Scientology

--Environmental issues - Scientology opts out.
--Drugs - Scientology gets PR and takes money for an ineffective program.
--War - Scientology does lip service and takes money for The Way to Happiness.
Yep. All those betrayals, and more.
Wieber wrote:--Personal Self Improvement - Scientology uses this as bait to get people to be followers.
Once recruited Scientology gets its followers to give it money and work as slaves.
True, dat. I got a lot of personal self improvement, and I also allowed myself to be used like a slave for several years.
"It is much easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled." ~ Mark Twain

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Fri Jul 25, 2014 3:26 am

Got an hour and a half?

I go to Youtube and on its home page it presents me with videos. I assume there's some kind of
program that looks at other videos I've watched and then picks others based on that. Anyway
today it presented me with this one and it seemed interesting. Maybe you'll get something out
of it. Just one thing. It's long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C5j63DsmnQ
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

Nom de Plume
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 3:54 am

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Nom de Plume » Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:47 am

Wieber wrote:Got an hour and a half?...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C5j63DsmnQ
Gosh, seems like it's been ages. I enjoyed seeing this again. Thanks, Wieber!

Yes, all those "Y2K Mavericks" were/are quite a group! Also deserving Honorable Mention is Virginia McLaugherty, for being the one who first cracked the code about the Six-Month Checks being totally squirrel tech and stepping up to the plate. She and her husband were right in the eye of that hurricane.

Yes, I am pretty philosophical about my Scieno experience.

And wanna know something else? I found out about a year ago that the Scieno saga wasn't the only "date rape" to which I've been subjected.

It dovetailed so beautifully into the earlier one in a way that could easily be suspected of having the same authorship/source/goal.

And really, the same "drug" (goal, dream, wish) was employed in both.

http://informationfarm.blogspot.com/201 ... .html[b][i]

I suggest you skip the vids, and read the first chapter first. Then, if it turns out to be a bombshell for you, too, and you're hooked, go back and do the vids later if you want.

I haven't seen them yet myself. I read the whole article on another, much more primitively-constructed website, sans vids. This site is much nicer.

It's very long, but...well, after the first chapter, you'll know if you want to go on.

Like I said, to me, this was another "date rape". Another "date rape" of a whole culture of young seekers, disguised as something other than what it really was.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out the same "DNA" showed up in both "rape kits"...

As the song says, "Young girls are coming to the canyons...."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEM728WW5Uc
8)
"It is much easier to fool someone than to convince them that they have been fooled." ~ Mark Twain

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:40 am

In the days before people needed a license to sell on the streets I was out on the street with the local Scientology org's book sellers. We were accosting people passing by and whenever possible sold them copies of Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health by L. Ron Hubbard. I am now happy to say I was not very successful at this venture. Alright, so much for setting the scene.

One fine sunny day four individuals passed by and the entire group engaged them. We recognized that these individuals had been in the recently released 200 Motels. Look at the picture. It will save me a thousand words. I'll have more when you get to the bottom of the picture.
Image
I do not know if these guys were pulling our chain or not but they said some interesting things about Frank Zappa and Scientology. They said that Frank Zappa was one of us i.e., a Scientologist and that he had been aboard the Apollo. They said they saw him going onto it when they were in some tropical country.

I never heard or read anything like that anywhere else, but there is the song on Frank Zappa's album, Joe's Garage.

First there's a piece called Scrutinizer Postlude.
TAnnotatehis is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER . . . again. Hi! . . . It's me again, the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER . . . Joe says Lucille has messed his mind up, but, was it the girl or was it the music? As you can see . . . girls, music, disease, heartbreak . . . they all go together . . . Joe found out the hard way, but his troubles were just beginning . . . his mind was so messed up . . . he could hardly do nothin' . . . He was in a quandary . . . being devoured by the swirling cesspool of his own steaming desires . . . the guy was a wreck . . . so . . . what does he do? For once, he does something SMART . . . he goes out . . . and pays a lot of money to L. Ron Hoover . . . at the First . . . at the Pch . . . hem . . . he goes out . . . and pays a lot of money to L. Ron Hoover . . . at the First Church of Appliantology!
Then there's the song, A Token of my Extreme.
"A Token Of My Extreme"

[Act II]

[SCENE NINE]
[A TOKEN OF MY EXTREME]

Arriving at L. Ron Hoover's modernistic office / cathedral / ware-house /
condominium complex, Joe is greeted by a pre-recorded message and
a dramatically illuminated image on a wall-sized TV screen...

[L. RON HOOVER:]
Welcome to the First Church of Appliantology!
The WHITE ZONE is for loading and unloading only!

Don't you be
Tarot-fied
It's just a token of my extreme
Don't you be
Tarot-fied
It's just a token of my extreme
Don't you never try to look behind my eyes
You don t wanna know what they have seen
Don't you never try to look behind my eyes
You don't wanna know what they have seen

[JOE: (thinking to himself)]
Some people think
That if they go too far
They'll never get hack
To where the rest of them are
I might be crazy
But there's one thing I know
You might be surprised
At what you find when ya go!

And thus, having rationalized his expedition to L. Ron's modernistic office /
cathedral / warehouse / condominium complex, JOE seeks The Answer to
his problem...

[JOE:]
Oh oh oh
Mystical Advisor
What is my problem, tell me
Can you see?

[L. RON HOOVER:]
Well, you have nothing to fear, my son!
You are a Latent Appliance Fetishist, It appears to me!

[JOE:]
That all seems very, very strange
I never craved a toaster
Or a color T. V.

[L. RON HOOVER:]
A Latent Appliance Fetishist
Is a person who refuses to admit to his or herself
That sexual gratification can only be achieved
Through the use of MACHINES... Get the picture?

[JOE:]
Are you telling me
I should come out of the closet now Mr. Ron?

[L. RON HOOVER:]
No, my son!
You must go into THE CLOSET
And you will have
A lot of fun!
That's where they all live
So if you want an
Appliance to love you
You'll have to go in there
N' get you one

[JOE:]
Well...that seems simple enough...

[L. RON HOOVER:]
Yes, but if you want a really GOOD one,
You'll have to learn a foreign language...

[JOE:]
German, for instance?

[L. RON HOOVER:]
That's right...
A lot of really cute ones come from over there!
(Fifty bucks, please)

And a cheerful group of Appliantologists dance into the room wearing
aluminum foil lab smocks, lock arms in a circle around JOE, making
sure he pays in full, all the while singing with L. RON as he delivers
nis final instructions...

[L. RON HOOVER:]
If you been
Mod-O-fied,
It's an illusion,
an yer in between
Don't you be
Tarot-fied,
It's just a lot of nothin,'
So what can it mean?
If you been
Mod-O-fied,
It's an illusion,
an yer in between
Don't you be
Tarot-fied,
It's just a lot of nothin,
So what can it mean?
[etc., etc., etc.]

JOE leaves the First Church of Appliantology and sets out to try L. RON s expensive advice

[CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER:]
This is the CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER... Joe has just learned to speak
German Now, get this, heres why he did it! He's gonna go to this club on
the other side of town, it's called THE CLOSET...
And they got these Appliances in there that really go for a guy dressed up
like a housewife who can speak German (you know what I mean)... so
Joe's learned how to speak German, he goes in this place and he sees
these little Kitchen Machineries dancing around with each other, and he
sees this one...that looks like it's a cross between an industrial vacuum
cleaner and a chrome piggy bank with marital aids stuck all over its body...
it's really exciting...and when he sees it, he BURSTS INTO SONG...
So what's the deal? Was Frank Zappa involved with Scientology at one time? Is Joe's Garage partially autobiographical? Consider the questions rhetorical. I have a feeling there's no one to ask who can answer them.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

Karin Pouw
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:45 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Karin Pouw » Sun Jul 27, 2014 2:50 am

Scientology, how about that? You hold on to the tin cans and then this guy asks you a bunch of questions, and if you pay enough money you get to join the master race. How's that for a religion?
-- Frank Zappa, to a concert audience at the Rockpile, Toronto, May 1969

My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can.
-- Frank Zappa

Yeah, I tell them to change the channel if they see some guy in a brown suit with a telephone number at the bottom of the screen asking for money.
-- Frank Zappa, Senate Hearing on "Porn Rock", 1985, after being asked by Tipper Gore if there was anything on TV he didn't allow his kids to watch

Anybody hear the great news, today? Jimmy Swaggart under investigation! Oh Ja-eezus! One day every one of those cocksuckers will get caught! I understand in the case of Mr. Swaggart, that he claims that it was not multiple encounters with many prostitutes -- apparently, only one sweet young thing. And he did tell Cal Thomas of the Moral Majority that the sex act itself was not fully consumated. However he did admit to doing something por-no-graphic with the girl. Let's use our imaginations, ladies and gentlemen.
-- Frank Zappa, opening remarks to "Stink Foot" at the Make A Jazz Noise Here show, recorded in 1988

Get smart and I'll fuck you over -- sayeth The Lord.
-- Frank Zappa, regarding Christianity's apparent preference for perpetuation of ignorance as a way of life

Children are naïve -- they trust everyone. School is bad enough, but, if you put a child anywhere in the vicinity of a church, you're asking for trouble.
-- Frank Zappa, expressing his opinion on raising a child, saying that institutions such as schools and churches, which have the power to control and brainwash your child, are totally overrated and shouldn't always be recognized as a genuinely good thing

http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/quotes/zappa.htm

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:07 am

Thank you, Karin Pouw. You have restored my liking for my Frank Zappa records.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

User avatar
I'mglib
Posts: 5745
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by I'mglib » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:11 am

Wow, who knew that Frank Zappa was way ahead of his time, as far as calling Scientology a scam? I liked his music. Too bad he died so young (53).
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

Karin Pouw
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:45 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Karin Pouw » Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:31 pm

Frank Zappa was not a fan of religion. His references to Scientology in his music were definitely satire.

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:18 pm

Here's a link the video for A Token of My Extreme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnSF36PBxbk
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:10 am

I saw Guardians of the Galaxy this weekend. Good movie.

There are some interesting comparisons between that movie and Tom Cruise's recent Edge of Tomorrow. I tried to find a previous thread on Edge of Tomorrow but if there is one it's in another section and I want to put this in this section.

Budget
Edge of Tomorrow: $178 million
Guardians of the Galaxy: $170 million

Rotten Tomatoes Ratings
Edge of Tomorrow: Critics: 90%, Audiences: 91% liked it.
Guardians of the Galaxy: Critics: 92%, Audiences: 96% liked it.

Box Office Statistics (boxofficemojo.com)

In Release
Edge of Tomorrow: 56 days
Guardians of the Galaxy: 3 days

Domestic Gross
Edge of Tomorrow: $97,991,760
Guardians of the Galaxy: $94,000,000 (estimate)

Foreign Gross
Edge of Tomorrow: $264,150,000
Guardians of the Galaxy: $66,400,000

Domestic + Foreign Gross
Edge of Tomorrow: $362,141,760
Guardians of the Galaxy: $160,400,000

In its opening weekend (3days) Edge of Tomorrow had a domestic gross of $28,760,246 compared to Guardians of the Galaxy's estimated $94,000,000.

With similarly positive reviews and audience response, one would expect Edge of Tomorrow to have produced similarly positive statistics. The film eventually did make money when the foreign market returns were added in. We can take another look at how Guardians of the Galaxy has done when it reaches the 56 day mark to get a better comparison.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Sat Aug 09, 2014 12:57 am

In Tony Ortega's blog, The Underground Bunker, he has been showing a series of promotional films Scientology uses inside its orgs to sell L. Ron Hubbard's assorted lecture series. I don't watch those videos. I don't watch them because they trigger my gullibility and it takes a while to sort through it and shuck L. Ron Hubbard. You can quote me on that last bit. "Shuck L. Ron Hubbard."
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Sat Aug 09, 2014 1:27 am

I just read a few reports by Tony Ortega about Scientology's legal endeavors in the courts.

While Scientology goes all out to fight against the litigation brought against it in an attempt to demonstrate
how difficult it is to deal with the Scientology organization in court what they are actually accomplishing is
training legal professionals how to deal with difficult legal opponents in the courts.

Thanks largely to L. Ron Hubbard's Keeping Scientology Working policy letter those involved with Scientology
cannot learn from their experience. There is no such restraint on those in the legal profession who do not work for
Scientology.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

User avatar
I'mglib
Posts: 5745
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by I'mglib » Sat Aug 09, 2014 4:19 am

Thanks for this topic, Wieber. Unfortunately we don't have a 'like' button, but just know that a lot of us are following along and liking.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

User avatar
Wieber
Posts: 10240
Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 10:57 pm

Re: Where to put this?

Post by Wieber » Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:50 pm

I just read Jon Atack's piece, How Scientology’s methods of manipulation stay with you after you leave, in Tony Ortega's Bunker.

http://tonyortega.org/2014/08/23/jon-at ... you-leave/

I have experienced that, and still do occasionally. I think leaving Scientology geographically does not get rid of its influence. A person who was involved with Scientology needs to take some action to free themselves of L. Ron Hubbard's hold on them. Ironically Hubbard mapped the way out. All a person needs to do is to take in those things one has a phobia of looking at or reading. Start with the books listed in my signature.

Jon Atack mentions psychiatrists and psychologists. Hubbard claimed they are the enemy. I have talked to some psychologists and psychiatrists and found it interesting that Scientology wasn't even vaguely on their radar. It's very hard for someone who doesn't even know you exist to be your enemy. There's no way they can conspire against you if they don't know anything about you.

The psychologist I had dealings with told me that in her psychology studies they do not even study anything at all about cults. They just don't know about them. That's unfortunate in that it leaves those of us who have left cults more or less on our own to recover from their influence. Fortunately there are books you can read and there are forums like this one where you can go to converse about it.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: anteneAdari and 11 guests