Mog, what do you think about this question? I am very interested in your opinion here.

I do understand Mog, and everthing was not all bad all the time or I wouldn't have stayed in the cult for 27 years. It is only after getting out that I realize what a scam scientology is and what a huckster Hubbard really was.

My life, health and family were shattered by scientology, and even now that most of us are out and back together we are still recovering and in many ways will always have scars on our hearts and souls for having been involved with LRH and his lies.

You know the pictures of the blue asbestos we were all illegally exposed to in the cult? It has little barbs that stick to your lungs. Hubbards ideas are like that. There is just eough truth to make it seem reasonable, but there are fish-hook like barbs of poisoned lies that stick in your mind. I think it is safer to just throw it all away and start over with a legitimate philosophy or a new religion that to try to pick raisens out of Hubbards mish mash cowpies.

Anything good about scientology was plagiarized and bastardized by Hubbard. My game now is to find the true source he stoled stuff from. I can never again believe a single word that fool ever said.

Entheta,

I do not agree that scientologists should not be able to communicate with whoever and whenever or however they want. I would not allow anyone to prevent any communication I desired.

There is one exception to the above and that is:

If I a person was in communication with something or somebody and because of that they were being brought down or otherwise being upset or made to feel bad, overtly or covertly then it would be better for the person not to be in communication.

Scientologists who are having auditing on course or on staff are required to handel the above situation if it occurs.

I would say often not well handled.

For example in my last dealings with an EO not long after I had had a major accident which almost killed me I was supposed to accept my husband as the person who was suppressive to me.

I do not want to get into my story but this is just to give you an example of insane application.

As it happens I was connected to someone who was bringing me down. I observed who it was and I have since handled the situation. I have not disconnected from that person I just have a better control over the communication.

As for letters going in being stopped well I do not have a lot of experience but there is a policy to throw away letters containing entheta.

The net nanny is also so as not to be in communication with entheta.

Its a restriction on their communication that scientologists themselves agree to. I do not think it is enforce but I could be wrong.

Ladybird,

I am glad you are all back together and that you are still interested in answers to life.

Those are what I am interested in too. There were things I found in scientology that were excellent.

However, from what I have observed from more recent contact with scientology is that it is no longer a group with much to offer anybody.

Perhaps you are right and there were always people used and abused and there were always fanatics but most of us were making gains of some type or another.

Now I think the group is something else.

Roan,

Sorry just reread your post to me. Ok you said outpoints. Thats true but it was really one major one then. The fact that you could not stamp out incorrect application.

I never really found a way of handling that outpoint Roan.

Mog,

You have a LOT more reading and research to do.

Start with this link http://www.lermanet.com/cos/8steps.html which shows the 10 steps out of Scientology.

You are so early on these steps and most of the people here on OCMB are way near the end or done with these steps.

You have a lot of maturing to do before you'll be well accepted on this message board.

Are you saying that there is only the one way of critical thinking otherwise one is not accepted?

You do your steps and I will do mine.

PTS

There was never any danger to my children. They were older.

I picked up the glass and wondered why nobody else did. KRC.

I did not think the group was up tone or it was a life for me. I left quite quickly.

Removing my child who was older and informing HCO would and I do not know why it did not happen have allowed them to immediately declare me. This would be for an active scientologist one of the worst things to happen. So PTS I did put my childs welfare and what I thought was best first.

Remember scientology was at that time my group and religion.

I am glad I spent some time in the SO otherwise I would not be likely to believe the stories of long term members who left. I do believe them.

However, PTS we all have our own story and we are not here to judge.

Mog, I didn't believe those steps when I first read them. But the more I studied about Scientology while OUTSIDE of CofS, the more steps I "fell" through... until I reached the end. I participate on a lot of websites and know the general type of participant of each, the "flavor" of each message board, and what's doled out to people who push a message that doesn't fit in with the rest of the group. OCMB is NOT favorable to believers or Freezoners, in the main. I was just giving you a tip. If the girlie wants to play on the playground with the rough boys, then expect a torn dress, a few scrapes and maybe even some broken bones.

Mog says: "No no no no no! It can't be true. I won't listen. I won't listen!"

Sea Horse,

Thank you for your concern.

I find this message board to be an informative and interesting place.

I am happy to consider all information and change my view as and when things I believe or have applied have been proved to be wrong.

Perhaps I am wrong Sea Horse but I think my posts that contain evaluations of incorrect application backed up by policy have far more effect on the COS than all the graphics or unflattering pictures displayed from time to time. Perhaps I am being naive. I would certainly think that my posts might get some people reading onto one or two of your ten points.

There is after all a small chance that they might reform some of their current practices which are so distructive to members many of whom appear to be being led by the nose into extreme debt or worse.

I think this message board is supposed to be a friendly place and although I may not always have adhered to that I am doing so now, so why would anybody want to tear my dress or break my bones?

The thread is about overwork and stress leading to death. Lets go back to talking about that.

We were talking about SO conditions but maybe org staff have a worse time because they also work and study for many hours in a day and they often cannot afford to eat at all.

I've had staff steal my food when I was a public. That's how poor they were.

There is a plan in "Church" of Scientology and "the tech" is merely a method to get money. Those who can pay are called "public". Those who cannot pay will pay with their lives as staff and never be properly compensated for their efforts.

It's all part of L. Ron Hubbard's plan.

I'm not the only one here who has noticed how abusive you are to those who don't 'fit in with the rest of the group.' It's as if you have elected yourself their judge, jury and executioner.

Scio-believer uses generalities ... and thinks I care about its opinion.

Oooooooooo!!!!!! I'm in trouble now!

Org staff work very hard for low pay. They have the additional problems of housing, bills and clothing. Food and transport.

I do not think I could take that stress and if I had to do it for years I would probably not be very cheerful. Its easy to be cheerful when life is easy.

Mog, I think it's important that you and even Suzanne Marie are here. I admire your fortitude. Also, you seem to be a reasonable person.

I agree that there are some people who, for whatever reason, shouldn't have certain destructive people in their lives. For instance, a co-worker no longer has contact with her alcoholic mother. This was, of course, my co-worker's choice, and it clearly was really bad for her and her family having her manipulative mother in her life.

That said, I'm just curious, you said:



Do you think that person caused your car accident?

It was not a car accident.

No I do not think they caused the accident. The accident occurred because I was down tone and I take full responsibility for it. Thats the scientologists way and its the way I lead my life also.

However, the person in question had come back into my life with vast problems of their own. I had in fact distanced myself earlier not because I thought that they were suppressive to me but because close family members know your buttons (sore points in english) and they were attempting to press mine. Many of my sore points no longer exsist but this does not mean that I have forgotton what they were. Well I had distanced myself really because we my husband and me were picking ourselves up after having financial loss caused by the recession in the USA from where the company that supported my husbands research in medical physics to stop the support in the UK. It came at a time when the UK was also in deep recession and high inflation. So I hope you can see that I did not need that kind of shit at that time. I am telling you why in a short way.

Time went by and we just lost touch. They knew how to get in touch with me and so some 10 or so years later my best friend phoned and said X is asking for your telephone number in (different country where I currently live). She gave me Xs telephone number and I said OK I will ring her but it will not be good news. It was not good news. Her husband had had a stroke, she was without money, they who had been at the time as described when I first distanced myself very wealthy had now lost everything.

At the time we were doing really well. My husband was now in a different industry and had invented a product that had been shown at a major exhibition we were renovating an old house and the stats as scientologists would say were rising along all dynamics.

So poor old mog unsympathetic uncaring scientologist starts daily telephone calls of trying to pull the person up and help them create a new safe environoment. It was obvious conditions were bad and if you think I was not deeply affected by their situation think again. Well I took money gave gifts told them how to get accommodated etc etc etc. I live in a very beautiful place and so in order to key them out ( give them a more pleasant experience) invited them on several holidays.

Well do not want to make this post a book but shortly after they got in touch or I rang them I had the accident. Maybe two or three weeks. First my husband drove into a tree (avoiding another car) on the forest road. He was driving to fast listening to Elvis and probably singing along and then bang. He was not injured but the side of the car where I would have sat was written off. We laughed about that. One week later I fell through the floor of an area we were renovating (wood worm). I suffered multiple injuries but I am now fully fit.

About one year later my husband was fired. This could have been the result of fair game. We had by this time taken all our money back.

Other things were going wrong.

My family noticed the daily dose of Xs entheta was not good for me. X was in particular attacking one of the children who lived with me and who was in the middle of a Masters degree. So it went on.

There is a lot more but in the end I confronted fully where X was at. Its not easy to confront that a close family member who you love is actually trying to distroy you. I evaluated the situation of other people around X and the consequence of them being in close association with X. Well I do not know I would rather say X is very PTS rather than suppressive but I do know there is nothing I can do to help X.

So I keep my distance. Her husband died and yes I went to the funeral. She is invited to the wedding of one of my children in a couple of months. I just do not let X get close to me or know what my concerns are. That way its hard for her to cause me problems. I call her a couple of times a week just to put some theta in her life and she is out of grief now but I am aware of her intentions and I do not allow her to cause me problems.

I love X but she is suppressive to me.

My husband has new inventions and we are busy trying to pull off a deal. The house is renovated. My daughter is doing her PhD. Life goes on.

X was not responsible for my accident or why my husband drove into a tree. However, X does have bad intentions towards me. I believe intention is powerful and hopefully I have now handled X.