Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

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Don Carlo
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:33 am

Peer-reviewed studies peg the success rate of AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) somewhere between 5 and 10 percent.
For example, only one of the three best-known facilities has ever published outcome studies (Hazelden); neither Betty Ford nor Sierra Tucson has checked to see if their treatment is producing any results for at least the past decade...
Efforts by journalists to solicit data from rehabs have also been met with resistance, making an independent audit of their results almost impossible and leading to the inevitable conclusion that the rest of the programs either don’t study their own outcomes or refuse to publish what they find.
from The Sober Truth: Debunking the Bad Science Behind 12-Step Programs and the Rehab Industry by Lance Dodes, M.D., and Zachary Dodes. Copyright 2014

Presented on http://www.salon.com by the authors March 23, 2014, at http://www.salon.com/2014/03/23/the_pse ... addiction/

My comment: Yes, let's see what's effective and not coddle this industry, especially Narconon.

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Wieber
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by Wieber » Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:48 am

Here's what the cover looks like.
Image
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing

Image

Don Carlo
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:55 am

It would be great if new laws require a scientific studies of what best works, and then require ALL rehabs to follow that standard. Then we'll definitely get rid of Narconon, which is just Scientology dogma and fails to address drug issues.

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I'mglib
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by I'mglib » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:12 pm

Eh, I read the article and it sounds like the author is selling his own services. He says there are better ways than AA but doesn't say what they are. He gives an anecdote where he fixed a guy through therapy where AA failed. I am sure there are many ways people get sober. I have a hard time believing any one way has a great success rate. If it did people would be singing its praises.

Anyway, I agree that rehab probably doesn't work for most people. AA probably is a little better, but not perfect. Therapy might work for some, but my guess is most alcoholics have done plenty of therapy--some start drinking again, some don't, just like anything else.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

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spacecootie
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by spacecootie » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:26 pm

Don Carlo,

I think the author is more concerned about 12 Step based treatment, whether it's in the context of AA meetings or a formal rehab program.

AA was the originator of the 12 Step approach. As the article notes, the vast majority of rehab programs are actually an intensive course in 12 Step principles, with the AA/NA/XA meetings as more of an ongoing (and presumably life long) aftercare program.

(Note: 12 Step-ism is so widespread that there are a gajillion [Insert Name of Your Problem Here] Anonymous programs, so some use "XA" as shorthand to describe all 12 step programs.)

Narconon is Scientology's own weird concoction, with relatively few operations compared to the many 12 Step based programs, so I don't think it found a place in the book.

However, as the book excerpt points out, there are many similarities between 12 Step based treatment/XA programs and Narconon/Scientology.

* The program always works. If you fail, it's your fault.

* It simply won't work for the worst of the worst, whether they are labeled an SP or, as AA calls them, "people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this simple program, usually men and women who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves. There are such unfortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born that way. They are naturally incapable of grasping and developing a manner of living which demands rigorous honesty."

* To be a good member, you need to recruit.

* The program develops its own language and customs, putting the member out of touch with the outside world, which is viewed as uninformed and inferior.

* Rank is extremely important, with those who have reached higher levels (OT or extended periods of abstinence) revered by those at a lower level of achievement.

Don Carlo
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:16 am

Maybe there should be low-cost live-in clinics where alcoholics safely detox off the sauce and are prevented from cheating and sneaking in booze, and there are simple talk groups and no promises of a cure. I do think alcoholics trying to quit need some kind of support and mottoes like "one day at a time" and some praise is good for a week, a month, or a year of sobriety. But if failures are never tracked in AA and the god-bothering turns people off, that's a signal to revise it. If expensive rehabs don't reveal their results, they should not be getting referrals from health professionals or judges.

I think one of the reasons states don't hammer Narconon is that there are other "faith-based" rehabs that also don't work, and the state could get sued for picking and choosing which rehab it went after. Perhaps getting better laws passed affecting all rehabs will be what brings down Narconon.

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Demented LRH
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by Demented LRH » Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:54 pm

It has been known for years that the celebrity refuge, Betty Ford Clinic, doesn't work, no surprise here.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

Don Carlo
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Scientific Doctors Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:28 pm

The insurance industry could refuse to pay for rehab unless the rehab provides methods, staff certification, and honestly shows their success rate.

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spacecootie
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by spacecootie » Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:36 pm

Don Carlo wrote:I do think alcoholics trying to quit need some kind of support and mottoes like "one day at a time" and some praise is good for a week, a month, or a year of sobriety. But if failures are never tracked in AA and the god-bothering turns people off, that's a signal to revise it.
I don't think AA can be revised. The original text of Alcoholics Anonymous is revered by members as the inspired word of god, delivered through AA founder Bill Wilson, just as the Scilons treat the ravings of "Source" as infallible scripture.

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bubbler
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by bubbler » Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:39 am

AA doesn't claim to be a scientific treatment, and never has
For many, it doesn't work
Fine
For numerous others, it does
Why bother them?

anondelmundial
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by anondelmundial » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:21 am

AA is not a corporation. AA has no leadership. AA is completely voluntary. AA is ANONYMOUS. AA has no membership records. AA neither keeps records of, nor reports, "success". The concept of "success" is never spoken, never defined.

AA groups live off donations for small items like providing coffee and paying a small amount to those organizations who host meetings for lighting and cleaning. No one in AA is required to donate. Some small fraction of donations are supplied to maintain a "central office" that sources AA publications, keeps records of where meetings are held, runs a copy machine, develops social events, etc.

AA is not a religion, but structures itself around Christianity. There are no sermons, and most don't follow the Twelve Steps. I personally don't follow the religious aspects and no one has ever questioned me about it.

The central tenet of AA is "one day at a time". That is, when I wake up in the morning, I say out loud "I will not drink today". I go to meetings when I can simply to be with other struggling alcoholics. If I need help, I can ask for a "sponsor" who is available 24x7x52 for support. A sponsor costs me nothing. AA members are alcoholics, and we freely admit that we have no control over alcohol and must make a commitment to ourselves to be sober "one day at a time" .

AA is present in essentially every town and city in the US. AA's membership is unknown, even to AA, but my guess that nationwide there are at least several million persons who attend AA meetings regularly.

AA membership encompasses the entirety of society. There are two early morning meetings in my city, sponsored by two hospitals in their main theaters, that are attended by physicians, surgeons, nurses, attorneys, judges, police personnel, elected officials, and more. Attendance at these two meetings are 200-400 each morning, by my personal estimates. There are some 250 other meetings every day in my local area of 300,000 population.

I bring this up because anyone who remotely thinks that AA will close through any kind of government edict will be chasing ghosts, to be frank. AA does what is does, and that is all that it does. "...it works if YOU work it."

anondelmundial
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by anondelmundial » Wed Mar 26, 2014 3:28 am

I don't think AA can be revised. The original text of Alcoholics Anonymous is revered by members as the inspired word of god...

As a long-term AA member, your above statement is thoroughly corrupt that you should offer a well-meaning mea culpa for your stupidity.

Don Carlo
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by Don Carlo » Wed Mar 26, 2014 4:04 pm

I agree AA is earnest and barely scrapes even, and they have a right to associate and run their meetings as they wish. I'm more against overpriced and ineffective rehabs, especially Narconon, getting referrals from health professionals and judges, and getting insurance money to pay for it.

Don Carlo
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by Don Carlo » Thu Mar 27, 2014 2:33 am

Daily Kos: The Affordable Care Act will cover these ineffective rehabs. Analysis and comment
at
Good news: ACA covers addiction treatment - Bad news: addiction treatment may not work, March 26, 2014, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/03/2 ... y-not-work

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spacecootie
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Scientific Doctors Hammer Rehab Industry and AA as ineffective

Post by spacecootie » Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:42 pm

anondelmundial wrote:As a long-term AA member, your above statement is thoroughly corrupt that you should offer a well-meaning mea culpa for your stupidity.
Don't hold your breath. AA is a cult. Arguably not as destructive as Co$, and without centralized leadership, but a cult nevertheless.

Since you're a "long-term AA member," ask yourself how many times you've heard people refer to "the first 164 pages," or the original text of the AA book. There have been four editions in the past 75 years, but the initial writings of Bill Wilson haven't been changed. What if the AA World Service Office decided they needed to rewrite that core text for the Fifth Edition? The membership would go ballistic.

For a site that's similar to Operation Clambake, but focusing on AA, check out

http://www.orange-papers.org/

Since AA uses many of the same thought-stopping techniques as Co$, I doubt many AA members would be willing to even look at the site... and even fewer would read it with an open mind.
Last edited by spacecootie on Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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