Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
Post Reply
User avatar
AngryGayPope
Posts: 1775
Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2010 9:56 pm
Location: Hollywood, USA
Contact:

Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by AngryGayPope » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:16 am

Someone whose opinion I trust believes it's possible that ex-Sci Marty Rathbun may be backsliding.

Apparently Marty believes that he is the only one David Miscavige listened to. If he could just get back in he could be in power again he could "save scientology."

So he has kind of killed of communication with ex-scis or Indies who might not like that. His wife has fired her lawyers.

This person believes that Marty may try to get back in DM's good graces and will, obviously, end up right back in the hole again asking himself "What am I doing here?"

This would sound crazy to me except that I have edited so many videos for Karen de la Carriere where that is EXACTLY what happened.

Like an abused girlfriend who keeps going back to the same jerk, Sci behavior is very similar.

Knowledge
Posts: 167
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 5:09 pm

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Knowledge » Mon Feb 22, 2016 12:29 am

In my opinion, that outcome would be most unfortunate.

It has been most fascinating to watch a case study of cognitive dissonance in progress, with the opinions expressed varying over the years from initially criticism simply of the current management of the organization, while emphasizing the original founder and his writings are still sacrosanct, to eventually poking holes in the founder's philosophy, to today drawing in writers and influences from views not expounded by the organization itself, including former members and even Hip-hop culture.

I hope the case study of cognitive dissonance continues with additional access to free information by the writer as well as all former members of management of the organization.

Skeptic
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:27 pm

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Skeptic » Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:41 pm

1st post so be gentle.

I don't normally do conspiracy theories, however it has occurred to me that the COS is in disarray, with Miscavige living a disconnected existence as time goes on. Is it possible that Rathbun is considering a move to take over Miscavige is position? After all, Rathbun is not denying and in fact promotes L Ron Hubbard philosophy, so it would be to his advantage to be viewed as the savior of COS.

Its a bit far out there I know, but let's not forget that the various organizations that comprise COS are not owned by Miscavige rather they each have interconnecting boards. Rathbun could conceivably convince the board members to work with him on that control.

Is this too much of a theory that is disconnected with reality? It might be, but comments would be welcome.

Don Carlo
Posts: 11764
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:29 am

Welcome, Skeptic. Some board members are imprisoned in The Hole, so they'd have a hard time doing a palace coup against Miscavige. If Miscavige flees or dies, who knows what will happen. CoS has demonized and harassed Rathbun so I doubt they'd welcome him back. Rathbun might start a competing Indie church, though he seems less enthused than earlier.

User avatar
I'mglib
Posts: 5745
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:17 pm

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by I'mglib » Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:56 pm

I can't really see it. Has anyone ever been out as long as he has, and been exposed to the dark side of Scientology as much as he, and then gone back in? I know there are North Koreans who return to the North after escaping, but I have never heard of anyone returning to Scientology.

Could Marty be the first? I suppose it's possible. I know he was lured back when he first left. But I just can't imagine it happening again.
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ScilonTV#p/

Don Carlo
Posts: 11764
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:18 pm

Marty has Monique and their child. All Monique knows of CoS is harassment and Squirrel Busters, and tales of neglected children, in danger of being lured into Sea Org slavery. He'd have to leave both of them behind. It's not possible.

Any honeymoon would last as long as it took to get Marty into a secure place like Gold. Think of all the revenge Marty would then suffer, once he was trapped again.

Skeptic
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:27 pm

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Skeptic » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:50 am

Don Carlo wrote:Welcome, Skeptic. Some board members are imprisoned in The Hole, so they'd have a hard time doing a palace coup against Miscavige. If Miscavige flees or dies, who knows what will happen. CoS has demonized and harassed Rathbun so I doubt they'd welcome him back. Rathbun might start a competing Indie church, though he seems less enthused than earlier.
Yes, I know that the likelihood is remote. It just seems to me that as there are boards involved, there is a way of bouncing DM. I recognize that he has most members completely cowed. That being said, communications today do allow for contacts that were not available in the past. Could Marty be in contact with some board members? Of course, if they talked with each other, there are the famous KRs.

What a system! My only thoughts is that board members may see that the only way to save the COS is by changing course, including voting DM out. Of course, there may be some sort contractual constraints which make that difficult.

It's just speculation but I can't imagine many others who have a broad visceral understanding of COS, and believe in it, that Rathbun has.

Don Carlo
Posts: 11764
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Don Carlo » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:49 pm

Miscavige has in his possession, already-signed letters of resignation from his board members, so he can oust them in an instant. Any board member with a spark of rebellion has escaped, died, been imprisoned, had their spirit broken, or been fired. The whole situation violates rules and customs about corporate charity leadership.

If Miscavige goes, a rich, popular celeb like Grant Cardone or even Tom Cruise might seize power, even though it violates Sea Org rules. Won't they regret it.

Skeptic
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:27 pm

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Skeptic » Wed Feb 24, 2016 11:49 pm

Don Carlo wrote:Miscavige has in his possession, already-signed letters of resignation from his board members, so he can oust them in an instant. Any board member with a spark of rebellion has escaped, died, been imprisoned, had their spirit broken, or been fired. The whole situation violates rules and customs about corporate charity leadership.

If Miscavige goes, a rich, popular celeb like Grant Cardone or even Tom Cruise might seize power, even though it violates Sea Org rules. Won't they regret it.
Why didn't I think of that!

It is standard operating procedure with many government organizations for their higher civil servants, and I suspect, some corporate boards. Seeing Sea Org officially doesn't exist (you know, no charter, bylaws, bank accounts) it may be interesting to see how it plays out. Maybe DM will smoke himself to death.

Don Carlo
Posts: 11764
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Don Carlo » Thu Feb 25, 2016 2:42 am

The board members and Miscavige, Chairman of the Board, are for existing CoS corporations like Religious Technology Center, Center for Spiritual Technology, Church of Scientology, Inc. See the thread CoS Organization Charts, viewtopic.php?f=9&t=31561 You need a wide computer screen for the lines to not "warp around" to the next line. If you have a small screen shrink the screen to 75% and see if the lines clear up. The key and the footnotes explain the relationships and acronyms.

Skeptic
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:27 pm

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Skeptic » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:13 pm

Thanks for the link. It'll take a bit to go through it, although I was familiar with a high level overview of it before (trademarks and copyrights control by RTC, some of the contracts to individual orgs, the real estate set up etc.)

Don Carlo
Posts: 11764
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: Will Marty go back in "the Hole?"

Post by Don Carlo » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:35 am

It's a dense chart. I tried to base every corporate relationship on CoS federal filings, websites, announcements, etc. The dotted lines are CoS's attempt to evade responsibility while wielding ruthless control and extracting maximum dollars.

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests