Why Post Where I Can't Answer You?

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
Post Reply
Hubbard's Mushroom
Posts: 8290
Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:02 pm

Post by Hubbard's Mushroom » Tue Jul 28, 2009 6:20 pm

Swift,
so you are a fascist?

"Fascism, comprises a radical and authoritarian nationalist
political ideology and a corporatist economic ideology.

Fascists believe that nations and/or races are in perpetual
conflict whereby only the strong can survive by being
healthy, vital, and by asserting themselves in conflict
against the weak. Fascists advocate the creation of a single-
party state. Fascist governments forbid and suppress
criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist
movement. Fascism opposes class conflict, blames
capitalist liberal democracies for its creation and
communists for exploiting the concept. Fascism is much
defined by what it opposes, what scholars call the fascist
negations - its opposition to individualism, rationalism,
liberalism, conservatism and communism. In the
economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to
support a "Third Way" in economic policy, which they
believed superior to both the rampant individualism of
unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state
communism. This was to be achieved by establishing
significant government control over business and labour
(Mussolini called his nation's system "the corporate state").
No common and concise definition exists for fascism and
historians and political scientists disagree on what should
be in any concise definition.

Following the defeat of the Axis powers in World War II
and the publicity surrounding the atrocities committed
during the period of fascist governments, the term fascist
has been used as a pejorative word."

- Fascism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

User avatar
J. Swift
Posts: 10214
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:09 pm
Location: Los Feliz, California
Contact:

Post by J. Swift » Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:12 pm

Suzie, how does Directive 13 look to you now?
Directive 13

1. Scientology processes that will promote illogical thinking and impulsiveness to the point where the recipient would be discredited in public. This is done to isolate the Scientologist from members of the general public. LRH: “The incredulity of our data…”

2. Scientology processes that increase the efficiency of misperception and create faster and more profitable reg cycles.

3. Scientology processes that will prevent Scientologists from watching television, reading newspapers, or collecting any objective sources of data that could cause them to become disaffected with Scientology.

4. Scientology processes that will promote the addicting effects of auditing.

5. Scientology processes that will degrade human emotions and reactions by the stupefaction of conscious, luminal, and unconscious processes.

6. Scientology processes that will render the induction of hypnosis easier or otherwise enhance its usefulness.

7. Scientology processes that will enhance the ability of Sea Org members to succumb to privation, torture and coercion such that they are amenable to going into RPF as ordered.

7A. Scientology processes that will enhance the ability of publics to succumb to privation, torture and coercion such that they are amenable to going into the Introspection Rundown as ordered.

8. Scientology processes and physical methods that will produce amnesia for events preceding and during their use. Drugs are comprehended in this process when auditing fails.

9. Methods of producing shock and confusion over extended periods of time and capable of surreptitious use. Drugs are comprehended in this process when auditing fails.

10. Covert Scientology processes that produce large donations to IAS.

11. Scientology auditing that will produce "pure" euphoria with subsequent let-downs that require yet more auditing.

12. Scientology processes that alter personality structure in such a way that the tendency of the recipient to become dependent upon the group is enhanced.

13. Scientology processes that will cause mental confusion of such a type that the individual under its influence will be unable to tell lies during sec checks.

14. Scientology processes that will heighten the ambition and general working efficiency of Sea Org members such that they will work 100 work weeks for subsistence.

15. Scientology processes that enable OSA members to tell convincing lies when needed.

16. A covert OSA process that will be safe to use, provide a maximum of amnesia, and be suitable for use by OSA agents on an ad hoc basis.
/////
Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/SurvivingScientology
http://www.survivingscientologyradio.com/
http://scientologymoneyproject.com/
contact: scienowriter@gmail.com

curiosity
Posts: 541
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:56 am

Post by curiosity » Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:26 pm

SuzanneMarie wrote:
curiosity wrote:SM: And yet, when Swift wallows in the gutter you are strangely silent.

Correct me if I’m wrong (and I’m sure you will), but the worst that Swift has seriously accused you of is being OSA.
Swift has at various times accused me of being that, knowing that he can invalidate what I write by claiming that I am in the pay of CoS and doing their bidding. He has also falsely claimed more than once that I have written something based on inside info that only 'OSA could know.'

He's full of shit and I am tired of his lying.

And I really do think that he posts here because he is some sort of fascist waging a propaganda war.
My schedule is once again becoming such that it will be difficult for me to spend much time posting here for a while, so I will need to make this quick. Suzie, let me make a couple of suggestions, and I like to think they are well-intended:

#1.

Swift is not the only critic here who thinks you're OSA. I don't even believe that he is the primary cause of other people thinking that. COS muddied the waters for you by actually doing what many critics think you are doing. Magoo has shared her own personal experiences of seeing COS operatives invent misleading identities to battle the critics at websites like this. The critics here believe her, and so do I. She was an eyewitness to it as a member of COS.

The real problem, Suzie, is that you have left a hole in your story.

I have tended to believe you, but even in the back of my mind is the thought: if she is not authorized by anyone in COS or RTC to post on critic sites, then why is she sacrificing her Bridge to do that? It makes no sense.

There is a piece missing in your story, and people here are filling it in with interpretations you don't like. No Scientologist as loyal as you would put their eternal futures at stake to post at a site like this, especially since COS, OSA, or RTC could assign someone to post here any time if they really thought it was important. So the question becomes, why are YOU doing it?

That causes me to further ask, is SM just being hyper-technical? Maybe she's not technically OSA and so she can legitimately deny it. Maybe she's just leaving out the fact that she's connected or authorized by some OTHER branch of organized Scientology, like RTC. As I recall, you've already shot down the idea of "I'm posting here to do amends as part of an ethics formula." That means that you continue to leave us with a missing piece in your story.

May I suggest that you just fill in that missing piece for us? Maybe it is just your state of mind:

Maybe you think that the current Scientology management is a bunch of doofuses, and you feel that you need to bypass them to battle the critics since Scientology management is not doing it. Maybe you're following Hubbard's policy about "to hell with policy, get the show on the road," and you hope that one day when the current management is gone that the new management will applaud your efforts here.

Maybe you had a genuinely bad experience with Scientology that you have not told us about, and there is more to your going off lines than you have said. Maybe you were actually declared something worse than just PTS A (or C, whichever it was), but you still feel loyal to Hubbard and the tech, and so you do what you can to defend it with the thought that one day justice will prevail for you, whether in this life or after.

Maybe there is a family dynamic that drives you to do what no other Scientologist would do.

Those are just a few random thoughts that have crossed my mind. If you choose to tell us the missing piece, I only ask that you make it completely honest. My thoughts above were not meant to give you ideas for building a shore story. Let us understand you a little bit more. If you choose not to fill in the blanks, then you will just need to live with critics filling in the gaps with ideas you don't like.

And if you ARE authorized in some fashion to be here, then talk to your "terminal" and get permission to disclose all the facts here. Sure, you'll get some "I told you so's," but that will blow over and you can keep debating without having a "withhold." Andreas has stated that he welcomes active Scientologists to post here, and I'm sure he means it.

#2

This is not something you can do anything about other than to acknowledge it. The bottom line to ALL of this--the critic sites, the suspicions from governments, the high drop-out rate and umpteen similar unhappy stories by ex-Scientologists over the span of decades, the widespread media ridicule, etc.--is about taking responsibility. Every person and every group must ultimately take responsibility for their actions. COS has yet to do that.

Scientologists can talk until they are blue in the face about psychiatry, est, SPs, the evil media, and on and on and on, but their words will always fall on deaf ears until COS takes responsibility for its own actions and policies, apologizes, and makes a clean break. Until that happens, you will always fight a losing battle here at OCMB and any other critic sites you enter. You might be able to catch and correct occasional factual errors or tone down some occasional exaggeration, but don't believe that you can clean up Scientology's image. The bad in Scientology really IS bad, and only COS, not you, can fix that.

#3.

It is common in debates like this to look at the other side as fascists. But unless I missed it, I have not seen Swift advocate that any Scientology books or tapes should be legally banned. I have not seen him advocate that Scientologists should be rounded up and imprisoned or quarantined. However, we DO find that COS has advocated such measures against critics, including dirty tricks to get critics arrested, Science of Survival's open call for permanent eradication of the civil rights of a significant portion of the population, etc. So while I understand that you're upset with Swift because the debate has become personal, understand the other side, too.

User avatar
J. Swift
Posts: 10214
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:09 pm
Location: Los Feliz, California
Contact:

Post by J. Swift » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:56 pm

Curiosity, thank you for that post. SuzanneMarie has been consistently evasive. She has holes in her story as you point out. She expects us to uncritically accept her evasions and yet she demands that everyone else tell her the truth. Isn't that rather convenient? What is Suzie's game? And how many Suzie's are there that use the account? I think there are three main Suzie's and that one of them is Danny Sherman. There is some LRH data Suzie has posted that is so specific that one would need to be Danny Sherman to know it.

IMO, SuzanneMarie is an OSA operative. Her agenda has always been to attack critics, distract from great posts, and spread lies and malicious hearsay. OSA is fairly predictable because it is stuck and has to operate per LRH policy. When I expose Scientology, Suzie never defends but always attacks per policy. I have seen her consistently follow this policy.

Predictably, Suzie is revisiting a twenty year old OSA vendetta against Werner Erhard as if that means anything. This est business is just another in an endless series of SuzanneMarie attempt to Dead Agent me. However, Suzie is making herself look idiotic this thread. She is following Pitbull's old methods to be sure. Pitbull, a famous OSA troll at OCMB, would just keep throwing shit against the wall in hopes that something would stick. In this thread alone, Suzie has thrown Nazis, Werner Erhard, Arica, President Truman, James Forestall, and some two dozen other people and groups at me in hopes of getting something to stick. How long before she realizes that I am just some guy who posts at OCMB?

*****
By way of history, the Cult of Scientology hired at least three PI's to find dirt on Werner Erhard and to destroy est. One PI named Theodore Heisig Jr. published an affidavit that is illuminating of how OSA works: http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/docs/affid ... heisig.txt

AFFIDAVIT

I, Theodore Heisig, Jr., state:

1. I am a resident of Orange County, California.

2. I am a licensed private investigator in the State of California. My
license number is # 13793.

3. I was engaged by or on behalf of the Church of Scientology or its
related organizations ("Scientology") to undertake private
investigations during the period 1989 through 1991. During that period
the payments I received for investigative activities on behalf of
Scientology accounted for more than 80% of my total income from
private investigation work.

4. Beginning in 1989, one of my assignments for Scientology was to
perform an investigation of Werner Erhard ("Erhard") and his
organizations, "EST" and "Werner Erhard & Associates" (WE&A), as part
of a project designated by Scientology as the "EST Project". My
assignment was to get damaging information on Erhard, to monitor
current litigation against Erhard and to conduct interviews.

5. I commenced my investigation of Erhard as part of the EST Project
in October, 1989,including a trip to San Francisco area to interview
people. My instructions included, but were not limited to, the
following: do legal checks on Erhard to see if there were criminal
cases in other states, check with the Board of Psychiatric Examiners
for any complaints against Erhard of WE&A, interview Erhard's ex-maid
Dawn Damas about his alleged drug abuse and get names of drug dealers that associated with him, contact disaffected EST employees and
members, do surveillance on Erhard's boat in Sausalito where he lived
and worked to determine his activities, contact reporters that did
critical articles on EST, contact and interview Erhard's ex-wife,
Ellen Erhard, contact parties suing Erhard or EST to obtain
information concerning Erhard's alleged illegal activities, and
contact Vic Krohn in the Sacramento Scientology office regarding
information on Erhard's IRS tax case 1n Washington, DC.

6. In furtherance of the EST Project, I received written instructions
dated November 27, 1989 and titled "Additional Targets for EST
Project" from David Butterworth, my case officer and the head of the
Office of Special Affairs for the Pacific Region of Scientology. I
understood that David Butterworth's superior, Doug Jacobsen, a SEA org
investigation officer, was the person who re-initiated the current
activity against Erhard.

7. These written instructions described above were for me to:
recontract Paul Gutfreund and arrange the exchange of documents, to
re-contact Erhard's ex-maid Dawn Damas and ask her to find out if
Ellen Erhard would be willing to meet with me to help me expose any
possible criminal activities of Erhard's, and if not, then could Ms.
Damas get further data from Ellen Erhard to get to me. In addition,
the instructions included contacting new "targets" for the purpose of
obtaining information regarding illegal or criminal activity of Erhard
as well as a list of "undone targets" from previous instructions. I
was to contact any new leads from the named targets. I was also
instructed to stay on the main line investigation of ferreting out and
documenting crimes so that Scientology would have actual documents and affidavits in hand.

8. Pursuant to such instructions, I made several trips to the San
Francisco area during the period between November 1989 and February
1990.

9. In November, 1989, I spoke with Landon Carter, a former EST
trainer, and identified myself as a private investigator working for
clients who were interested in exposing any criminal activities that
Erhard might be engaged in. I informed Mr. Carter that I knew people
who believed that Erhard had cocaine stored in a warehouse in
Sausalito. Mr. Carter responded that when he worked for EST, he knew
what was going on and there was no such activity or any other criminal
activities conducted by Erhard or in which Erhard was involved. Mr.
Carter went on to say that since he left he hadn't heard of anything
illegal, and there is enough of a network of talk about Erhard that he
would have heard something. I had no further conversations with Mr.
Carter...

23. During all of my contacts with non-Scientology individuals
described above, I did not identify myself as having been engaged by
or on behalf of Scientology. I generally described myself as a private
investigator working for an attorney representing a group of
disaffected former "EST people" based in Los Angeles. I specifically
told Gutfreund that the objective of this group was to document
Erhard's criminal activities and then to notify the proper
authorities.

24. I am aware of other private investigators who had been engaged by
or on behalf of Scientology to perform investigations of Erhard and
his organization as part of the EST Project.

(a) One such person is Seth Derish, a licensed private investigator in
San Francisco, who was engaged by or on behalf of Scientology on or
about July, 1989 to obtain financial information regarding Erhard and
his organization. Mr. Derish did obtain such financial information and
he transmitted it to the representatives of Scientology. I saw the
financial reports that Mr. Derish submitted. In the information I saw
in the files that Scientology has on Werner Erhard, I saw information
that Scientology believes Erhard has a Swiss bank account and that
they have the account number.

(b) Another person was Alan Clow, a licensed private investigator.
Although I never met him, Mr. Clow also started an investigation on
behalf of Scientology. Mr. Clow identified himself to these people in
the same manner that I did, namely as representing former EST people.
Paul Gutfreund informed me that Alan Clow asked him questions about
Erhard sometime during 1990.

26. Scientology has five (5) full filing cabinets of information on
Erhard and EST and the material goes back to 1943. It includes in it
their actions and activity against Erhard going back to approximately
the last 20 years. Apparently Scientology had some problem with Erhard
and have been attempting to put him out of business for some time.
From the material in these cabinets it was evident Scientology was
compiling a media blitz against Erhard and that Scientology was behind
the 60 Minutes program and a national disinformation campaign to get
Erhard.

I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the State of
California that the foregoing statements are true and correct. This
Declaration is executed on this 1st day of November, 1991 in the City
of Tustin, County of Orange, California.

[Signature]
Theodore Heisig, Jr.
*****
Scientology likely spent over >$1,000,000 of parishioner money to attack Werner Erhard and est. Scientology has spent huge amounts of money attacking its enemies and continues to do so. This waste of parishioner money to attack Freedom of Speech has been a massive waste of time and money. Where David Miscavige, OSA, Suzanne Marie and all Scientologists are stuck is in their refusal to acknowledge that Freedom of Speech exists. Scientology's attitude is that it should be illegal to speak out against Scientology's inhumanity and crimes. Accordingly, the Cult spends money attacking the internet; imprisoning SO members in RPF; locking up its members in the Introspection Rundown; and attacking squirrel groups.

Scientology will go down fighting and it will collapse while blaming everyone else except itself for its failure. At the bitter end, Scientology will still be sprinkling Nazis all over everything, this although the Nazi Party collapsed on 30 April 1945 when Hitler shot himself. I never ceased to be amazed by Scientology's decades-long fascination with Nazis and creating Nazi-centric view of the world in which everyone is either a Scientologist or a Nazi.

/////
Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/SurvivingScientology
http://www.survivingscientologyradio.com/
http://scientologymoneyproject.com/
contact: scienowriter@gmail.com

SuzanneMarie
Posts: 2995
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 6:24 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Post by SuzanneMarie » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:54 am

J. Swift wrote:Suzie, how does Directive 13 look to you now?
What is it?
J. Swift wrote: 5. Scientology processes that will degrade human emotions and reactions by the stupefaction of conscious, luminal, and unconscious processes.
Are you pretending that this document came from a CoS source, or is it a parody of something else?

'Luminal'? When I was a kid, there was a sleep aid called Luminal.
But what the hell does this word mean in this context?

SuzanneMarie
Posts: 2995
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 6:24 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Post by SuzanneMarie » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:32 am

J. Swift wrote:Curiosity, thank you for that post. SuzanneMarie has been consistently evasive. She has holes in her story as you point out. She expects us to uncritically accept her evasions and yet she demands that everyone else tell her the truth. Isn't that rather convenient? What is Suzie's game? And how many Suzie's are there that use the account? I think there are three main Suzie's and that one of them is Danny Sherman. There is some LRH data Suzie has posted that is so specific that one would need to be Danny Sherman to know it.
And what specific data is that, pray tell? Don't be evasive; just let us all know how FOS a person can be. (I've asked about this repeatedly and Swift never answers.)
J. Swift wrote: In this thread alone, Suzie has thrown Nazis, Werner Erhard, Arica, President Truman, James Forestall, and some two dozen other people and groups at me in hopes of getting something to stick. How long before she realizes that I am just some guy who posts at OCMB?
J. Swift wrote:
How long before she realizes that I am just some waterheaded, lying, unfunny fascist dickhead with severe unwarranted self-importance who posts at OCMB?
Fix't.
J. Swift wrote: At the bitter end, Scientology will still be sprinkling Nazis all over everything, this although the Nazi Party collapsed on 30 April 1945 when Hitler shot himself.
This implies that ratlines, the Fourth Reich, German psychiatric and governmental 'ex'-Nazi domination, the postwar fascist exodus to South America, and CIA involvement and recruitment of Nazis never occurred or was not important.

Move along, folks, Swift says there's nothing to see on this thread.

Swift wrote: I never ceased to be amazed by Scientology's decades-long fascination with Nazis and creating Nazi-centric view of the world in which everyone is either a Scientologist or a Nazi.
You might be a Nazi if:

1) You think it's OK to torture prisoners with electroshock.

2) You greatly admire Germany and tend to gloss over her unfortunate history of genocide.

3) You think that biological psychiatry is humanity's salvation, and that psychiatrists only want to help people.

4) You lie all the time for no particular discernible reason.

5) You have a capsule of cyanide hidden in a tooth in case you are captured.

6) You just want the trains to run on time, and nothing else matters.

7) You've been a longtime personal friend of Evita Peron, Errol Flynn, Werner Erhard, Werner Villinger, Werner Catel, Werner Heyde, Martin Bormann, Josef Mengele, or Willis Carto.

8) You listen to Wagner, but 'O Fortuna' is your favorite.

9) You have a big party every April 20th.

10) You get a stiffy when you hear pleading and sobbing.
Last edited by SuzanneMarie on Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TheEvilOfScientology
Posts: 440
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:33 pm

Post by TheEvilOfScientology » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:55 am

You might be a Nazi if:

1) You think it's OK to torture prisoners with electroshock.
Bullshit.

2) You greatly admire Germany and tend to gloss over her unfortunate history of genocide.
Possible.

3) You think that biological psychiatry is humanity's salvation, and that psychiatrists only want to help people.
Bullshit. Quite with the anti-psych crap. Nobody sane swallows that crap.

4) You lie all the time for no particular discernible reason.
Bullshit.

5) You have a capsule of cyanide hidden in a tooth in case you are captured.
Bullshit.

6) You just want the trains to run on time, and nothing else matters.
Bullshit.

7) You've been a longtime personal friend of Evita Peron, Errol Flynn, Werner Erhard, Werner Villinger, Werner Catel, Werner Heyde, Martin Bormann, Josef Mengele, or Willis Carto.
Bullshit.

9) You have a big party every April 20th.
Bullshit. And as a matter of fact, I know a very sweet woman whose birthdays is April 20th. I guess your logic implies that everyone born on that date is a Nazi. That's space-cult thinking for you.

10) You get a stiffy when you hear pleading and sobbing.
Bullshit. Though I do hear that's how Hubbard reacted when he used to lock young kids up on the Apollo.


Basically, you're full of bile and bullshit SM. Brainwashed to the max, and warped and twisted with it.

If you're concerned about the rise of Nazism then look no further than organised Scientology and the history of your criminally convicted, drug-addicted, racist, homophobic, woman and child beating "messiah", LRH.

User avatar
RealityWillTell
Posts: 3103
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:05 pm

Post by RealityWillTell » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:57 am

J Swift distorted when SuzanneMarie wrote:How long before she realizes that I am just some waterheaded, lying, unfunny fascist dickhead with severe unwarranted importance who posts at OCMB?
That line alone of yours SM proves to the wog world you have rabid butthurt over J. Swift! You are ranting as if you were on the verge of a nervous breakdown! :shock:


Your whole ridiculous diatribe about "You might be a Nazi if:" is actually pretty funny because of your inclusion of such psychotic scientological nonsense like:
Freaked out SuzanneMarie wrote:3) You think that biological psychiatry is humanity's salvation, and that psychiatrists only want to help people.
Your attempt at deadagenting J. swift by bearing your schizophrenic scientologist fangs is at best pretty pathetic and will not look sane to any wog.

Mimicking Tommy Davidson's psychosis is no way to go SM! :roll: :lol:
Image
.

SuzanneMarie
Posts: 2995
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 6:24 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Post by SuzanneMarie » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:58 am

SuzanneMarie wrote:
J. Swift wrote:Curiosity, thank you for that post. SuzanneMarie has been consistently evasive. She has holes in her story as you point out. She expects us to uncritically accept her evasions and yet she demands that everyone else tell her the truth. Isn't that rather convenient? What is Suzie's game? And how many Suzie's are there that use the account? I think there are three main Suzie's and that one of them is Danny Sherman. There is some LRH data Suzie has posted that is so specific that one would need to be Danny Sherman to know it.
And what specific data is that, pray tell? Don't be evasive; just let us all know how FOS a person can be. (I've asked about this repeatedly and Swift never answers.)
J. Swift wrote: In this thread alone, Suzie has thrown Nazis, Werner Erhard, Arica, President Truman, James Forestall, and some two dozen other people and groups at me in hopes of getting something to stick. How long before she realizes that I am just some guy who posts at OCMB?
J. Swift wrote:
How long before she realizes that I am just some waterheaded, lying, unfunny fascist dickhead with severe unwarranted self-importance who posts at OCMB?
Fix't.
J. Swift wrote: At the bitter end, Scientology will still be sprinkling Nazis all over everything, this although the Nazi Party collapsed on 30 April 1945 when Hitler shot himself.
This implies that ratlines, the Fourth Reich, German psychiatric and governmental 'ex'-Nazi domination, the postwar fascist exodus to South America, and CIA involvement and recruitment of Nazis never occurred or was not important.

Move along, folks, Swift says there's nothing to see on this thread.

Swift wrote: I never ceased to be amazed by Scientology's decades-long fascination with Nazis and creating Nazi-centric view of the world in which everyone is either a Scientologist or a Nazi.
You might be a Nazi if:

1) You think it's OK to torture prisoners with electroshock.

2) You greatly admire Germany and tend to gloss over her unfortunate history of genocide.

3) You think that biological psychiatry is humanity's salvation, and that psychiatrists only want to help people.

4) You lie all the time for no particular discernible reason.

5) You have a capsule of cyanide hidden in a tooth in case you are captured.

6) You just want the trains to run on time, and nothing else matters.

7) You've been a longtime personal friend of Evita Peron, Errol Flynn, Werner Erhard, Werner Villinger, Werner Catel, Werner Heyde, Martin Bormann, Josef Mengele, or Willis Carto.

8) You listen to Wagner, but 'O Fortuna' is your favorite.

9) You have a big party every April 20th.

10) You get a stiffy when you hear pleading and sobbing.

SuzanneMarie
Posts: 2995
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 6:24 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Post by SuzanneMarie » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:08 am

TheEvilOfScientology wrote:
You might be a Nazi if:

1) You think it's OK to torture prisoners with electroshock.
Bullshit.
Swift thinks it is OK to electroshock certain types of criminals; in fact, he started a whole idiotic thread about how mean CoS was for not allowing it, when it was never being done in the first place.

3) You think that biological psychiatry is humanity's salvation, and that psychiatrists only want to help people.
TheEvilOfScientology wrote: Bullshit. Quite with the anti-psych crap. Nobody sane swallows that crap.
That's your definition of insanity? If they are anti-psych they must be insane? Seems like circular reasoning.

5) You have a capsule of cyanide hidden in a tooth in case you are captured.
TheEvilOfScientology wrote: Bullshit.
No, really. That's how captured Nazis died in many cases.

7) You've been a longtime personal friend of Evita Peron, Errol Flynn, Werner Erhard, Werner Villinger, Werner Catel, Werner Heyde, Martin Bormann, Josef Mengele, or Willis Carto.
TheEvilOfScientology wrote: Bullshit.
Twanger, you don't even know who these people are, do you?

User avatar
J. Swift
Posts: 10214
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 10:09 pm
Location: Los Feliz, California
Contact:

Post by J. Swift » Wed Jul 29, 2009 6:38 pm

SuzanneMarie, I understand Scientology's obsessive and strange "Nazi Space Opera" quite well. I watched the Cult ripoff the work of the Church Committee US Senate hearings in the 1970's using FOIA in the 1980's. Scientology used Senator Frank Church's work to weave together an alternative, bastardized, and intellectually dishonest history that placed Scientology at the center of a vast conspiracy by an amalgam of Nazis/Psychiatry/CIA/FDA/FBI/APA/AMA et. al. to destroy L. Ron Hubbard and Scientology. IMO, this conspiracy theory stems from Hubbard's unhandled anger and aberration over the 1963 FDA raid on Scientology. This raid was necessitated by Hubbard's sales of the drug "Dianazene" and his making outlandish, misleading, and false medical healing claims for Scientology. Furthermore, it should be noted that Hubbard's constant occultic drug usage, paranoia, and the legal problems that led him to piratically take the high seas in 1967 with the Sea Org fuels the alternative history the Cult created to justify its necessity, at least to itself anyway. The origins of the Sea Org and the Cult's Fair Game doctrine also illustrate how Hubbard indoctrinated his followers with his paranoid/megalomaniac fantasies in which Hubbard made himself the central subject of both Cosmic and World history. David Miscavige is of course re-scripting this somewhat so he emerges as the Savior who restores the Lost and Altered Tech that the SP's were able to sneak past Hubbard when he was alive.

*****
The Cult of Scientology massively twists and perverts history to argue that Nazi's created Psychiatry and then imported it to the West while Western powers did nothing to stop the Nazis. To hear Scientologists like "Suzie E-Meter" tell it, the West actively encouraged the Nazis because they were in on the Psychiatric Conspiracy and opposed the emergent power of L. Ron Hubbard and Dianetics. Look, Suzie, if you are going to engage in moon battery at least go over the top with it. Go all of the way. Here are a few points where I think you and your precious Cult of Scientology are short at arriving at a unified field theory of Nazi Psychiatry that would attract the sort of weirdos with money that Scientology is looking for in PT, all of the smart people having blown:

1. The Nazis are said by fringe groups to have had flying saucers and secret moon bases. You definitely need to include both in your revisionist history that places L. Ron Hubbard at the center of world history. You could mention, for example, that John Lilly synthesized LSD on a Nazi moon base in 1944 and that the CIA secretly fed LSD to L. Ron Hubbard multiple times in 1945 - 1948. A series of "LSD flip outs" could then be used to explain away Hubbard's homoerotic Black Magick trysts with Parsons. The "LRH sheep-dipped military records" thing just isn't working as an explanatory gambit. LRH: Unwitting Victim of CIA/Nazi Moon Base LSD actually makes more sense. I would add in a scene where Hubbard shoots down a Nazi UFO using a Bofers AA gun that is mounted to the yacht he paid for by stealing $20,000 from Parsons. Have the shoot down take place in the Bermuda Triangle so that this story element can be used to later explain why OT VIII is delivered by The Freewinds in the Bermuda Triangle. Mention that this region is where the fabled "Golden Dawn" rose over the continent of Atlantis. Make it very OT and be sure to say that LRH was the last King of Atlantis and that is why the Nazis were really after him.

2. Historians are in agreement that WWII was a continuation of WWI. Therefore, shouldn't you and Scientology really be focused upon the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria as the defining event in which Germany Psychiatry thrust itself into world affairs? My dear Suzie, if you want an overarching, unified field theory of Psychiatry there is no better SP than Black Hand member Gavrilo Princip who shot the Archduke and his wife on 28 June 1914. The Black Hand was a secret society undoubtedly connected to Sigmund Freud and the advancement of German Psychiatry. You Scientologists could argue that Gavrilo Princip was under the influence of an early variant of Prozac and cocaine when he did the shooting and that Narconon, had it existed, would have prevented WWI.

3. You could also weave Hubbard's best friend Al Crowley in there somewhere saving the young Ron from being kidnapped by Marcabs in 1914. Tie a knot there to associate the assassination with an attempt on young LRH's life. I like the idea of Satanist Al Crowley riding onto the Hubbard family's Montana ranch dressed like a gaucho and wresting LRH from the snotty tentacles of his Marcab abductors. Maybe give Al Crowley a set of pearl-handled six-shooters to waste the Marcabs. A Crowleyian "Charlie's Angels" would work here as well. Maybe you could have Sarah Palin, Greta VS, and Katie Holmes time travel back from the future to help Crowley save Ron? See where I'm heading Suzie? You need to weave together your story elements in a much more comprehensive fashion. To be great, Cult Space Opera needs to be big and populated with vivid characters. At present, your ill-defined Nazis don't even remotely approach the menace of those seen in the Indiana Jones franchise. Amp them up. Explore the space, give us more cowbell, and I think you win over the audience of glassy-eyed lunatics drifting around out there in cyberspace and Star Trek conventions that you guys need to fill all of those disturbingly empty Ideal Orgs.

*****
SuzanneMarie, Scientology's concatenation of Nazis and Psychiatry is just too bizarre. If you want to know why only Scientologists believe in Scientology, look at the lunatic history you are presenting on this thread. You have ignored substantial evidence that Operation Paperclip existed to put Nazi scientists to work for the US Gov't during the Cold War. Instead, you have made a series of tortured, vastly illogical leaps so that you can have Nazi occultists putting cocaine into Werner Erhard's nose and his Sausalito warehouse. Your strange and weird use of manufactured history shows the lengths to which Scientologists will go to attack its enemies. Once you guys decide you hate someone, you hate them forever.

Scientology's hatred of Werner Erhard still exists almost twenty years after it succeeded in chasing him into a self-imposed exile. This is yet another proof of the batshit insane nature of the Scientology mindset that holds a grudge forever and wants to kill its enemies or Fair Game them into collapse. What happened with respect to Werner Erhard and CoS is quite simple. The story was outlined by the L.A. Times on 29 December 1991 by writer Robert W. Welkos. The basic-basic in this chain, as usual, is Hubbard's monstrous ego, jealousy, and greed:
...Hubbard had long held that Erhard, who had dabbled in Scientology, had incorporated some of its teachings into est, making a fortune in the process. Heisig said he was told by Scientology officials that the church had lost millions of dollars because Erhard had lured away potential customers.

Scientology's latest campaign against Erhard was one in a series of efforts by church members to undermine his reputation and movement.

Vicki Aznaran, the top ecclesiastical official in Scientology from 1984 until she left in 1987, said she saw secret files that showed Scientologists were instructed to enroll in est seminars and "act crazy" and "heckle" the program leaders to cause disruption of the seminars.

She said they were also told to steal materials from est to cause loss of business for Erhard.

Aznaran, who has sued Scientology for alleged fraud and false imprisonment, said Hubbard once devised a plan in which his followers were told to try to duplicate Erhard's sales success.

The plan was run by one of Hubbard's daughters, Aznaran recalled, and involved sending "lots of people into est and copying it." But, she said, for one reason or another, the Scientologists could never make it work as well as Erhard had.

"Hubbard was very angry at Erhard's success," Aznaran said. "Nothing got under his skin worse than someone taking one or two of his courses and then running off and making some money off it and him not getting a slice of it..."

"...On April 18, 1976, Hubbard sat down to watch the David Susskind show on television. The program featured 40 people who had undergone est training and Hubbard was looking to see that similarities, if any, there were between Scientology and Werner Erhard's seminars.

The next day Hubbard wrote a four-page analysis of the program, saying est was essentially Scientology "up to 1954."

"Their instructors and foundation board are certainly students of Scientology texts and possibly of Scientology," Hubbard wrote. "The reason they can't say why it works is that they don't dare mention or at least just don't mention Scientology. Werner Erhard may pretend to his staff that he invented these processes. But many of his staff would have to know that it is Scientology."

Erhard denied that "these processes" were the same, telling a biographer: "I am not surprised that people find traces of Scientology in est. In est we use variations on some of the Scientology charts, and as a result the terminology overlaps a bit. In essential respects, however, the two are different.

Although Erhard did not know it, he had created a powerful enemy...
ref: http://www.wernererhard.com/la_times.html

/////
Image

http://www.youtube.com/user/SurvivingScientology
http://www.survivingscientologyradio.com/
http://scientologymoneyproject.com/
contact: scienowriter@gmail.com

SuzanneMarie
Posts: 2995
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 6:24 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Post by SuzanneMarie » Thu Jul 30, 2009 3:32 am

If what I'm posting is all just nonsense, then why am I getting DDOSed?

What next?

I don't think I want to stick around and find out.

User avatar
'Alert'
Posts: 5219
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:09 pm
Location: Bondi Beach
Contact:

Post by 'Alert' » Thu Jul 30, 2009 4:02 am

SuzanneMarie wrote:If what I'm posting is all just nonsense, then why am I getting DDOSed?
Bullshit.

SuzanneMarie wrote: What next?
Moar bullshit from you?
SuzanneMarie wrote: I don't think I want to stick around and find out.
Yet, you "stick around" somewhere where you say you're being ddos'd to talk about being ddos'd?

U R A MORON

You haven't been ddos'd, youve been dosed by lafayette ronald hubbard :D
"If anyone talks about a "road to Freedom" he is talking about a linear line. This, then, must have boundaries. If there are boundaries there is no freedom." - Dianetics 55

entheta
Posts: 867
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:00 am
Location: Out-Ethics

Post by entheta » Thu Jul 30, 2009 7:20 am

hey SM, quick question:

Are psychiatrists evil?

All of them?

Do you believe that ONLY evil people study psychiatry, and go on to earn the
necessary licenses, open practices, etc? Or is it that people BECOME evil,
after they become psychiatrists, ie the practice of psychiatry TURNS them
into evil beings?

just curious...
[b]C[/b]annot
[b]U[/b]nderstand
[b]L[/b]ogical
[b]T[/b]hinking

Morsicle
Posts: 2084
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 3:29 am

Post by Morsicle » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:23 am

So how would Scientology ever have known how many dollars it actually gained from people who, after hearing that est has commonalities with Scientology, went on to try Scientology for themselves? Or possibly, Werner Erhard helped create a climate where people would be more willing to try New Age stuff, and Scientology benefited from this climate.

If the drug addicted, money grubbing piece of crap who is Scientology's god had thought of that, maybe there wouldn't be a vendetta.

But the drug addicted, money grubbing piece of crap couldn't see past his own shoe boxes full of cash. The way he looked at it, if people gave $ to Werner Erhard, that was less for his shoe box. Can't let the shoe box get too light, one never knows when one might need to buy the favors of Bulgarian officials.

And for this, for the ancient vendetta of a dead science fiction writer, the OSA Operative is still all in a fluster. Defending the vendettas of a dead charlatan who sold people the notion that they are covered with Xenu-created-posthumously-brainwashed-space-alien-ghosts. The Operative(s) have shamed themselves so horribly in this thread, one wonders how these people can live with themselves.

Their drug addicted, money grubbing god shit the bed of his air conditioned trailer some 23 years ago. And they still have this vendetta about $ they think they lost 30 years ago. When it's Scientology's dark and sinister behavior, the very behavior the Op is demonstrating here, that has cost them many times more. Such lost and pathetic people.

For every dollar Werner Erhard cost Scientology, Slappy has cost them $10 due to his slap-happy ways. You should get an account on this SuzanneMarie. How many bucks has Slappy lost your Cult on per-slap basis? $100 per slap? $500? Or maybe he slaps so much it could just be $1 per slap, yet still adds to a great fortune.

Meanwhile you're still going after Werner Erhard, when DM is slapping your coffers dry.
"What a lot of people don't realize is that Scientology is black magic that is just spread out over a long time period."

-[url=http://www.lermanet.com/scientologynews/penthouse-LRonHubbardJr-interview-1983.htm]L. Ron Hubbard Jr[/url].

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests