Striking Parallels between CoS and Christian Science

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Don Carlo
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Striking Parallels between CoS and Christian Science

Post by Don Carlo » Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:18 am

Both group’s founders were hypocritical drug-addled paranoid lawsuit-flinging plagiarists; followers were obsessed with fancy buildings that don’t attract new members, and more parallels.

Christian Science Church and its founder Mary Baker Eddy findings are shown in blue, Church of Scientology (CoS) and its founder L Ron Hubbard findings are shown in red.

CS: a diary kept by Calvin Frye, a household servant of Mrs. Eddy, reveals that she was addicted to morphine , despite Christian Science anti-medicine teachings (Note 1)
CoS: Hubbard took “pinks and greys” (Note 2) and died with Vistaril in his blood (Note 3) despite CoS anti-psych-drug teachings

CS: Mrs. Eddy developed symptoms of paranoia, claiming that her enemies were attempting to attack her with “malicious animal magnetism (Note 1)
CoS:Hubbard was paranoid about body thetans (Note 4).
Hubbard was, and CoS is, obsessed about the so-called psych conspiracy to enslave mankind. (Note 5)

CS:Mrs. Eddy "sued a former associate for using malicious animal magnetism to inflict 'great suffering of body and mind and spinal pains and neuralgia and a temporary suspension of mind' on one of her followers. " (Note 1)
CoS: may be the most litigious so-called religious group in history. (Note 6)

CS: Mrs. Eddy "plagiarized material from many sources, particularly Thomas Carlyle and John Ruskin" (Note 1) Mary Baker Eddy was a patient of ("the father of mental healing, New England clockmaker Phineas Parkhurst Quimby") and was accused of having founded Christian Science on the basis of one of his unpublished manuscripts
(Note 8 )
CoS: Hubbard plagiarized most of his so-called “tech.” (Note 7)

CS: The Christian Scientists built the immense “Mother Church” in Boston which apes St. Peter’s Cathedral in Rome and St. Paul’s in London. (Note 8) Yet membership continues to decline (see two graphs in Note 1)
CoS renovates “Ideal Orgs” and celebrates their openings with fevered celebrations starring David Miscavige. Although CoS hides its true active membership numbers, reports of empty or near-empty org parking lots tell the truth about declining enrollment.

UNPROVABLE CURE CLAIMS WHILE MEMBERS SUFFER ILL HEALTH: Both claimed their techniques would cure disease.
CS: But Christian Scientists actually have shorter lives. (Note 1)
CoS: ex-Scientologists have reported Sea Org workers encouraged to "audit away" cancer, following the bloated claims of Hubbard''s Dianetics book (Note 9) with tragic results. Many Scientologists, especially Sea Org workers, have died in their fifites, not their seventies and eighties like the average person in the US and Europe.

CS: "The development of Scientology resembles that of Christian Science. Mary Baker Eddy, the founder, claimed to deal with the development of human personality in a scientific way. Persecution, defections and associated lawsuits threatened to destroy what Mrs. Eddy saw as her contribution to the Welfare of humanity. So she took advantage of the legal privileges extended to religion by obtaining a formal charter for her Church of Christ (Scientist) in 1879 (Note 10)"
CoS: Scientology "began not as a religion but as a self-help therapy...This reconceptualization from psychotherapy to religion afforded Scientology a few distinct advantages: (1) protection against government regulation (with respect to Hubbard’s quasi-medical claims); (2) immunity from liability against claims of fraud; and (3) the monetary benefits of the tax exemption. (Note 11)

CS:"Christian Science practitioners are certified by the church... Their training is a two-week, 12-lesson course.(Note 8)"
CoS: Similar time frame and profitability (to the Church) training happens in Scientology: "The Church of Scientology offers a "Minister's Course" to its members... After two weeks of training, Scientology ministers wear dog collars and the Scientology cross and conduct Sunday services, weddings, naming ceremonies and funerals. (Note 12)"
"After three weeks of intensive training with Scientologists in Houston, he became certified (as an auditor) Note 13"

CS: is anti-aspirin(Note 14) , and
CoS: so is Scientology (Note 15)

CS: her belief... underlings cannot improve upon those explanations, and... “they shall make no explanatory remarks”(Note 16)
CoS: course supervisors...are forbidden to explain or amplify Hubbard’s material. They can only direct the PC what to read(Note 16)

Trained as Christian Science practitioners, "Bruce and John Klingbeil, despondent that their attempt to scientifically prove the value of prayer was not appreciated by the First Church of Christ, Scientist and others, bought two shotguns and killed themselves..."(Note 17)
However, it's likely that the CS Church members only ousted, shunned and verbally criticized the Klingbeils. This is a much milder response than CoS, which adds in legal and physical danger, and has an entire Wikipedia article: Fair Game (Scientology).(Note 18)

CS: ...reality is purely spiritual and the material world an illusion...(Note 8 )
CoS: The universe has no independent reality, but derives its apparent reality from the fact that most thetans agree it exists.(Note 19) Also: Hubbard regularly claimed in various ways that a person’s idea of reality is itself reality, always.

CS: disease is a mental error rather than physical disorder, ...the sick should be treated, not by medicine, but by... prayer... to correct the beliefs responsible for the illusion of ill health.(Note 8 )
CoS: Chapter 5 of DMSMH, Psychosomatic Illness, asserted "The problem of psychosomatic illness is entirely embraced by Dianetics, and by Dianetic technique such illness has been eradicated entirely in every case. About 70 percent of the physician's current roster of diseases fall in the category of psychosomatic illness."(Note 20)

CS: Eddy's philosophy was dogmatic and sectarian... she saw her views as a final revelation.(Note 8 )
CoS: Scientology as little more than a protective shell intended to preserve the genius of Hubbard's unalterable works. (Note 21)

CS: ...her idea of malicious animal magnetism (that people can be harmed by the bad thoughts of others), introducing an element of fear (Note 8 )
CoS: George Felos...related an incident in his book, Litigation as Spiritual Practice, which reveals his ability to "kill with a thought" (Note 22) Also, CoS members fear the presence or friendship with a "Suppressive Person" can make them ill.

CS: There is no appeal to a personal god in Christian Science prayer. The process involves the Scientist engaging in a silent argument with herself to affirm the unreality of matter (Note 8 )
CoS: There also is no appeal to a personal god in Scientology. In the upper OT levels, the student most self-audits. OT III promises: "Once complete, a being is free of the whole track overwhelm that has trapped him. Here he confronts and eradicates the fourth dynamic engram that has plagued this universe for millennia." (Note 23) (My comment: Fourth dynamic is species, which is our real existence as humans) CoS also has "The Seventh Dynamic is life source. This is separate from the physical universe and is the source of life itself."

CS: It is a closed system of thought, viewed as infallible if performed correctly; healing confirms the power of Truth, but its absence derives from the failure, specifically the bad thoughts, of individuals.(Note 8 )
CoS: Scientology is infallible and any failure is due to its students not performing it correctly - the usual blame is "overts and withholds" (Note 19)

CS: "Eddyism" was regularly referred to as a cult; one of the first uses of the modern sense of the word was in A. H. Barrington's Anti-Christian Cults (1898), a book about Spiritualism, Theosophy and Christian Science.(Note 8 )
CoS: The Church of Scientology shows many cult-like characteristics (Note 24)

CS: Mary Baker Eddy made a lot of money training people to become Christian Science practitioners, demanded her student practitioners pay her royalties, and guarded her book copyrights.(Note 8 )
CoS: The Church of Scientology does all these.

CS: The Christian Science Journal and Christian Science Sentinel publish anecdotal healing negative accounts are published (Note 8 )
CoS regularly publishes anecdotes about "wins," and no negative accounts are published.

CS... has been accused at times of silencing internal criticism by firing staff, delisting practitioners and excommunicating members (Note 8 )
CoS: does all of these things.

CS: "Mary Baker Eddy pushed the postulates of positive thinking to their absolute limit. She did not merely teach that wishes will come true, but that wishes are true.(Note 8 )
CoS: "Wishes are true" = Postulate: To wish into existence; a supposed OT super-power along the lines of Tone 40 and Intention, qv. "David postulates that the Psyches will all be destroyed by the year 2000; our program of dead-agenting them will make his postulate stick." (Note 25)

CS: "She turned to the student at the end of the first row of seats and took direct mental cognizance of this one, plainly knocked at the door of this individual consciousness. It was as if a question had been asked and answered and a benediction given. Then her eyes rested on the next in order and the same recognition was made. This continued until each member of the class had received the same mental cognizance. No audible word voiced the purely mental contact." (Note 8 )
CoS: Training routines require lengthy eye contact (Note 26).

Note 1 : A skeptic looks at Christian Science, by Jeffrey Shallit at

Note 2
Armstrong, told me, (Bent Corydon) among other things, of a letter to his third wife, Mary Sue when Hubbard was in Las Palmas during 1967 at the inception of the Sea Org. This letter is now in custody of the court. In it Hubbard tells his wife: "I'm drinking lots of rum and popping pinks and greys."

Note 3:

Note 4:
I was advised by Richard Aznaran, Sinar Parman and Annie Breeder [Broeker?] that Hubbard was an unhandled PTS III when he died. According to Sinar Parman [LRH's personal manservant], Hubbard was a psychopathic insane person screaming about BT's and clusters at the top of his lungs.

Note 5: . Please refer to Wikipedia's footnotes in all Wikipedia references.

Note 6:

Note 7: The Hubbard Is Bare by Jeff Jacobsen

Note 8: . Includes a Mother Church photo

Note 9 : repeated claims in the book Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health.

Note 10:

Note 11: IRS Scientology "Thirty Years War" - Village Voice Legal Expert Argues "Treaty" Is Unconstitutional, Forbes, July 14, 2012, ... itutional/

Note 12:

Note 13: ... n-of-islam

Note 14: Book review of fathermothergod: My Journey Out of Christian Science, ... rmothergod

Note 15: Aspirin may prevent many cancers, but CoS is anti-aspirin, viewtopic.php?f=9&t=61130

Note 16: BUNKER SPECIAL: David Touretzky on L. Ron Hubbard, Mark Twain, and Mary Baker Eddy, Jan. 1, 2014, by Tony Ortega, The Underground Bunker, ... more-12396

Note 17: The Day (newspaper) May 17, 1993, ... 33,3468152

Note 18:

(Note 19)

(Note 20) ... y_doctrine

(Note 21) ... tology.php

(Note 22) ... odG0=_blog

(Note 23)

(Note 24) ... %E2%80%A6/

(Note 25) ... #Postulate

(Note 26) Scientology Starts Out as Staring Contests, interview of Claire
Headley by Tony Ortega, Mar. 12, 2013, ... -contests/

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Post by I'mglib » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:08 am

Good points, DC.

I too see a lot of similarities with COS.

There's a Christian Science reading room in our town, located on the most expensive tourist street. It's so weird to see these restaurants, jewlery shops, and then the reading room. It's almost always empty, too. Occasionally there will be a single elderly woman sitting there. They must have bought the property in this choice location a loooong time ago, to be able to afford to let it just sit there, when rents on the street are $10,000-20,000 a month.

I like to look at the books that are open in the window, and try to make sense of it. Mary Baker Eddy wrote in even a more inaccesible way than LRH, if that's possible. Who can read that stuff?
"A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot sit on it." -William Ralph Inge

Watch the Los Angeles press conference here:

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Post by Gumbythetruth » Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:43 am

I'mglib wrote:Good points, DC.

I too see a lot of similarities with COS.

There's a Christian Science reading room in our town, located on the most expensive tourist street. It's so weird to see these restaurants, jewlery shops, and then the reading room. It's almost always empty, too. Occasionally there will be a single elderly woman sitting there. They must have bought the property in this choice location a loooong time ago, to be able to afford to let it just sit there, when rents on the street are $10,000-20,000 a month.

I like to look at the books that are open in the window, and try to make sense of it. Mary Baker Eddy wrote in even a more inaccesible way than LRH, if that's possible. Who can read that stuff?
I,m rather lazy tonight. Question if i may. Do the Christian Scientists believe in Christianity? You know, father ,son and holy ghost? Me being a catholic, i have experienced some rather strange dogma, that i do not agree with, yet still believe in a supreme being. Who or what that is? I do not know. Do not care really. It just brings me a simple comfort. Something created this great universe to enjoy. I just don,t question or attempt to dissect the whole thing. Call it blind faith. If i attempted to even try to understand the hows and whys we exist in the first place, that in of itself could drive you nuts. I,m just free thinking here, but if one wanted to, you could draw parallels with many mainstream religions with that of scientology, which we all know is a strange gumbo of every faith and secular idea man has ever confronted.

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Post by J. Swift » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:53 am

Great post Don Carlo. LRH ripped off and reworded the technique of Christian Science's "Treatment" technique for healing. Watch this Christian Science' video: ... tment.html

Substitute the following words as shown and you have Scientology:

1. "Christian Scientist" with "Scientology"

2. "Treatment" with "Auditing"

3. "Divine Presence" with "The Tech"

4. "Matter" with "MEST"

5. "Spirit" with "Theta"

6. "Fear" and "Doubt" with "Engram"


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Post by Wieber » Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:43 am

Steven Hassan's resource page on Christian Science: ... anscience/

Steven Hassan's resource page on scientology: ... ientology/
(A much larger page, by the way)

Steven Hassan's Resource Center page:
Click on a letter to get a list of organizations with the name starting with that letter. Then click on the organization for the links about it.

Steven Hassan's Freedom of Mind home page:

One technique that does get through to cult members is to discuss a cult other than the one they're in. When you talk about Christian Science, Jehovah's Witness, The Mormons, The Unification Church or any other such entity with a person in scientolgy they have nothing to be defensive about so they will tend to not shut you out - as long as you don't mention the C-word. This won't work well with anyone connected to the office of special affairs because scientology has established alliances with some of the other cults.
“Think wrongly if you please, but in all cases think for yourself.”
Doris Lessing


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Post by Don Carlo » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:13 pm

Christian Science grew when medicine was primitive, and hospitals and maternity wards were death-traps. In the 1860's there were no X-rays, ultrasound, safe painkillers, insulin, antibiotics, blood transfusions, proper anesthesia, cortisone, organ transplants, bone marrow transplants, cancer therapy, post-stroke brain-saving treatment, and few vaccines. There was no understanding of genetic disease or even Rh-negative mothers unknowingly sending lethal antibodies against their Rh-positive fetuses. There was barely even pasteurized milk and clean water to drink. The germ theory of disease, which FINALLY made doctors wash their hands between patients, and use Lister's carbolic acid to sterilize wounds, was not widely accepted until the late 1800's. Malaria ravaged many places in America and Europe until the discovery in 1897 that mosquitos transmitted it. Vitamins weren't discovered until Vitamin A was identified in 1909, and others later. Until the late 1800's, seizures were widely thought to be evil spirits treatable only by exorcism. In the 1800's medicine didn't understand that tobacco smoke and other pollution cause cancer. Christian Science was founded 33 years before ASPIRIN was formulated into pills.

Scientology grew when psychiatry was primitive and mental hospitals were creepy, with only expensive and unreliable Freudian talk therapy and a few clumsy bad-side-effect treatments like Thorazine, electroshock and the appalling lobotomy. Now, mental health is still imperfect but discoveries are made every year that help more people. Millions are now helped by anti-depressants like Prozac, better bi-polar meds, better anti-seizure meds, and better anti-psychotics. Electroshock is still scary but rare, and new magnetic treatments might replace it. Lobotomies are long gone. New MRI-type brain scans show differences in brain structure in some mental illnesses, alcoholism and drug addiction that give better diagnosis and clues to research for cures. There is a new approach for careful medication of teens with the first signs of schizophrenia, to prevent it from spinning out of control into a more dangerous and less treatable condition.

For Scientology, vitamins and food supplements are enthusiastically used, but in unproven and possibly dangerous manners. The US government seized Hubbard's vitamin mixture that he claimed would "cure radiation" (Note 1) Scientology pushes mega-doses of dangerous niacin during its Purification Rundown, but
«Large doses of niacin can cause liver damage, peptic ulcers, and skin rashes. Even normal doses can be associated with skin flushing. It can be prescribed as a treatment for elevated total cholesterol and other types of lipid disorders, but it should only be used with medical supervision due to its potential for severe side effects.»
— "Medical Encyclopedia: Niacin" in Medline Plus
(Note 2)
«[D]etoxification with mega-vitamins and other non-medical procedures that may be hazardous and in some cases lethal.»
— Dr. Forest S. Tennant, Jr. in "Outline for recovery, House Evaluation (Narconon New Life)"
(Note 2)

Ironically, cigarettes, coffee and many herbal medicines are psychoactive, and many Scientologists and Sea Org workers take large doses.
St. John's Wort: blocks serotonin reuptake, similar to Prozac
Ginkgo: increases acetylcholine activity, similar to Tacrine or Cognex.
Panax Ginseng: increases acetylcholine, similar to Tacrine and other anti-Alzheimer's drugs.
Kava: enhances neurotransmitter GABA activity, similar to Valium and Xanax
Alcohol: increases dopamine, similar to Wellbutrin
Nicotine: (cigarettes) increases dopamine, similar to Wellbutrin
Caffeine: (Coffee, tea, and some soda) stimulates the central nervous system; Wikipedia says it is Quote:
the world's most widely consumed psychoactive substance
My point is not that coffee, or ginseng, or beer are BAD, just that the Scientologists are altering their brain cells with these substances, while they preach against "psych drugs" that ALSO target serotonin, dopamine, and other neurotransmitters.

For more on psychoactive herbs taken by Scientologists see Note 3

On the other hand, real scientists study Omega-3 fatty acids, Vitamin D and other food supplements for help in mental illness with encouraging results. However, Scientology preaches that mental illness doesn't actually exist, and with this attitude, Scientologists can't systematically understand how to help any depression or other mental problem, even with vitamins and food supplements.

Science does recognize a "placebo effect" where the patient believes he or she is getting a good treatment, and the patient's own mind can help create a cure. The healing power of touch is well known in many traditions and religions. Both are likely a cause of some of the anecedotal "wins" and "cures" in Scientology and Christian Science. But, temporarily stopping pain or temporarily easing stiffness is generally not a cure.

Hubbard absorbed the 1950's-and-earlier prejudice against homosexuals. While they say they are no longer anti-homosexual, they have not amended Hubbard's writings which preach that
Such people should be taken from the society as rapidly as possible and uniformly institutionalized
(Note 4)

However, Scientology promised John Pattinson that it could cure his homosexuality, and failed, according to his lawsuit. (Note 5)
If Scientology is still secretly promising and then attempting cures of homosexuality, it is missing the latest medical understanding which is
The American Psychological Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the National Association of Social Workers state that "Sexual orientation has proved to be generally impervious to interventions intended to change it... no scientifically adequate research has shown that such interventions are effective or safe..."anecdotal reports of "cures" are counterbalanced by anecdotal claims of psychological harm".
(Note 6)

So, Christian Science is stuck in the 1860's and Scientology is stuck in the 1950's. Both have REAL competition from medical and psychiatric advances, and Christian Science and Scientology contributed zero to these advances. Stem cell treatments have promise as the next live-saving scientific breakthrough, but who in Christian Science or Scientology is working on that? Scientology's sole claim is that it got some pills better labeled to warn about suicidal tendencies, but this would likely have happened anyway.

Another similarity is that both are living off old donations and and aging membership. I agree that CoS members should take a good look at an empty Christian Science reading room. If CoS is LUCKY, that's what a few orgs will look like in thirty years, after they can no longer afford fancy big buildings. More likely, CoS will be sued out of existence.

A final similarity between Christian Science and Scientology is that both have science in their name and both are pseudo-Science. The Internet can help warn people against joining groups like Christian Science and CoS, and can help those inside find a way out. Skeptical thinking has become more mainstream and it clearly explains that anecdotes of cures are not scientific proof - you need double-blind studies. Free flow of information will help science and weaken the pseudo-science claims of Christian Science and Scientology.

General Sources: Just google "History of..." any of the above illnesses or treatments. Medical timeline from

Note 1: A Piece of Blue Sky, Chapter 5, from

Note 2:

Note 3: Operation Clambake thread Herbal Medicines are Psychoactive, Too, which uses wikipedia sources for the substances. The thread is at

Note 4: ... osexuality

Note 5:

Note 6: ... psychology
Last edited by Don Carlo on Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by J. Swift » Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:48 pm

Don Carlo, yours is a brilliant analysis. Cults do get stuck in the era and prejudices of their Founders, this to the detriment of their followers.

One of Mary Baker Eddy's biggest, and scammiest, frauds was her infamous "Tea Jacket" con. This was Mary Baker "Mother" Eddy's version of the LRH Birthday Game. We read from Christian apologist Walter Martin:
Continuing further into the Eddy legend, we are once again confronted with the cold, impartial testimony of history where Eddy’s boundless “generosity” and “selflessness” are concerned. Shortly after the famous “Woodbury Suit,” wherein Eddy was accused of slandering a former disciple, the Christian Science treasury showed a marked decrease in volume, the result of large legal fees due in consideration of services rendered during the case. As a result of this, Eddy perpetrated on the faithful the infamous “Tea Jacket Swindle,” calculated to draw from her gullible followers the revenue with which to further strengthen her treasury. In line with this scheme she drafted the following solicitation to her church universal, which appeared in the Christian Science Journal, December 21, 1899:
Beloved, I ask this favor of all Christian Scientists. Do not give me on, before, or after the forthcoming holiday aught material except three tea jackets. All may contribute to these. One learns to value material things only as one needs them, and the costliest things are the ones that one needs most. Among my present needs material are these—three jackets, two of darkish heavy silk, the shade appropriate to white hair; the third of heavy satin, lighter shade, but sufficiently sombre. Nos. 1 and 2 to be common-sense jackets for Mother to work in, and not overtrimmed by any means. No. 3 for best, such as she can afford for her dressing room.—Mary Baker Eddy
The key to this whole financial angle is to be found in five short words, “All may contribute to these.” Notice Eddy does not request two hundred thousand tea jackets, merely “contributions” toward them. No one was to send them—only send the money to buy them. “Mother” Eddy must have enjoyed this neat trick of replenishing her gold reserve, and none can deny that it was carried off with a finesse that rivals any confidence game ever conceived. All this, mind you, in the name of Jesus Christ and under the banner of Christian Science, allegedly the true religion. Judge Rutherford of Jehovah’s Witnesses could not have had Christian Science too far out of mind when he said, “Religion is a racket.” Compared to Eddy, “Pastor” Russell and Judge Rutherford of The Watchtower Society were rank amateurs at collecting money. She played for the highest stakes at all times, and with Mary Baker Eddy it was always “winner take all,” and she did!


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Post by J. Swift » Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:01 pm

One of L. Ron Hubbard's recurring themes was that of dying only to miraculously return to life bearing precious wisdom of a universal nature. I discuss this in my thread The Evolution of a Fraud: viewtopic.php?highlight=bearing&t=30492

LRH claimed to have died in 1936 under anesthesia. He returned understanding the dynamic "Survive!" that infuses all life. In another version of the story, LRH saw a smorgasbord of spiritual knowledge when he was dead. He returned to life and wrote Excalibur, a book so dangerous that an NYC editor threw himself out of a skyscraper window after reading it. Hubbard famously almost died, broke his back, and was torn up when he "took the plunge" in 1967 and discovered the OT material.

Mary Baker Eddy has Christian Science begin in a near death experience. Again, Walter Martin:
Let us return, however, to Eddy’s explanation of how she “discovered” Christian Science. According to an authorized statement published by the Christian Science Publishing Society of Boston, Eddy, after a fall on a slippery sidewalk February 1, 1866, was pronounced “incurable” and given three days to live by the attending physician (Dr. Alvin M. Cushing). The third day, allegedly her last on earth, Eddy (the statement makes out) cried for a Bible, read Matthew 9:2, and rose completely healed. Thus the statement claims “she discovered” Christian Science.

Corroborating this new story, Eddy in her book Retrospection and Introspection declares that in February of 1886 (one month after Quimby’s death), she was mortally injured in a sidewalk fall and was not expected to live. She, however, vanquished the angel of death in this skirmish, and on the third day emerged triumphant over her bodily infirmity. This is the story maintained by the organization today, as a comment on the First Church of Christ, Scientist web site states:
In 1866 [Eddy] was severely injured in a fall, and turned to the Bible as she had been accustomed to doing. All she had pondered in the past came strongly and clearly to her as she read an account of one of Jesus’ healings. She was immediately healed. Convinced that God had healed her, she spent the next several years searching the Scriptures to understand the principle behind her healing. She named her discovery Christian Science and explained it in 1875 when she first wrote Science and Health.
Eddy’s two statements, the interested reader will note, substantiate each other in every detail; it is therefore most unfortunate that they should both be falsehoods. Eddy never discovered Christian Science in the manner claimed, never was in danger of losing her life in the manner described, and never “rose the third day healed and free,” as she maintained. Two incontrovertible facts establish these truths. They are as follows: (1) Dr. Alvin M. Cushing, the attending physician at Eddy’s “illness,” denied under oath in a 1,000-word statement that he ever believed or said that she was in a precarious physical condition. Moreover, Dr. Cushing stated (contrary to the claims of Christian Scientists that Eddy always enjoyed robust health) that he further attended her in August of the same year four separate times and administered medicine to her for bodily ailments.


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Mark Twain is the Original OG

Post by probity » Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:16 pm

by Mark Twain


Book I of this volume occupies a quarter or a third of the volume,
and consists of matter written about four years ago, but not hitherto
published in book form. It contained errors of judgment and of fact. I
have now corrected these to the best of my ability and later knowledge.

Book II was written at the beginning of 1903, and has not until
now appeared in any form. In it my purpose has been to present a
character-portrait of Mrs. Eddy, drawn from her own acts and words
solely, not from hearsay and rumor; and to explain the nature and scope
of her Monarchy, as revealed in the Laws by which she governs it, and
which she wrote herself.


NEW YORK. January, 1907.
I read this critique of Christian Science a few years ago and have no doubt that many of their strategies were purposefully emulated by L. Ron Hubbard in establishing Scientology.

Here is Mark Twain delivering some old school criticism:

It is evident that she made disciples fast, and that their belief in her
and in the authenticity of her heavenly ambassadorship was not of the
lukewarm and half-way sort, but was profoundly earnest and sincere.
Her book was issued from the press in 1875, it began its work of
convert-making, and within six years she had successfully launched a new
Religion and a new system of healing, and was teaching them to crowds of
eager students in a College of her own, at prices so extraordinary
that we are almost compelled to accept her statement (no, her guarded
intimation) that the rates were arranged on high, since a mere human
being unacquainted with commerce and accustomed to think in pennies
could hardly put up such a hand as that without supernatural help.

From this stage onward--Mrs. Eddy being what she was--the rest of the
development--stages would follow naturally and inevitably.

But if she had been anybody else, there would have been a different
arrangement of them, with different results. Being the extraordinary
person she was, she realized her position and its possibilities;
realized the possibilities, and had the daring to use them for all they
were worth.

We have seen what her methods were after she passed the stage where her
divine ambassadorship was granted its executer in the hearts and minds
of her followers; we have seen how steady and fearless and calculated
and orderly was her march thenceforth from conquest to conquest; we have
seen her strike dead, without hesitancy, any hostile or questionable
force that rose in her path: first, the horde of pretenders that sprang
up and tried to take her Science and its market away from her--she
crushed them, she obliterated them; when her own National Christian
Science Association became great in numbers and influence, and loosely
and dangerously garrulous, and began to expound the doctrines according
to its own uninspired notions, she took up her sponge without a tremor
of fear and wiped that Association out; when she perceived that
the preachers in her pulpits were becoming afflicted with
doctrine-tinkering, she recognized the danger of it, and did not
hesitate nor temporize, but promptly dismissed the whole of them in a
day, and abolished their office permanently; we have seen that, as fast
as her power grew, she was competent to take the measure of it, and that
as fast as its expansion suggested to her gradually awakening native
ambition a higher step she took it; and so, by this evolutionary
process, we have seen the gross money-lust relegated to second place,
and the lust of empire and glory rise above it. A splendid dream; and by
force of the qualities born in her she is making it come true.

These qualities--and the capacities growing out of them by the nurturing
influences of training, observation, and experience seem to be clearly
indicated by the character of her career and its achievements. They seem
to be:

A clear head for business, and a phenomenally long one; Clear
understanding of business situations; Accuracy in estimating the
opportunities they offer; Intelligence in planning a business move;
Firmness in sticking to it after it has been decided upon; Extraordinary
daring; Indestructible persistency; Devouring ambition; Limitless
selfishness; A knowledge of the weaknesses and poverties and docilities
of human nature and how to turn them to account which has never been
surpassed, if ever equalled.

And--necessarily--the foundation-stone of Mrs. Eddy's character is a
never-wavering confidence in herself.

It is a granite character. And--quite naturally--a measure of the talc
of smallnesses common to human nature is mixed up in it and distributed
through it. When Mrs. Eddy is not dictating servilities from her throne
in the clouds to her official domestics in Boston or to her far-spread
subjects round about the planet, but is down on the ground, she is kin
to us and one of us: sentimental as a girl, garrulous, ungrammatical,
incomprehensible, affected, vain of her little human ancestry, unstable,
inconsistent, unreliable in statement, and naively and everlastingly
self-contradictory-oh, trivial and common and commonplace as the
commonest of us! just a Napoleon as Madame de Remusat saw him, a brass
god with clay legs.

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Post by Guero » Thu Sep 03, 2009 8:00 am

Unlike CoS, there are quite a few CS churches, or "reading rooms" here in Melbourne, and I don't think I've EVER seen anyone under 65 in them, which says a lot about how few new members they seem to attract.

Also, I think the only celeb I've ever seen shill for them is Val Kilmer, of all people!
Scientology: At best its a placebo. At worst, its a poison.

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Post by lostinspace » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:02 pm


Know I've been absent on the board but I read it nearly every day along with other boards.

Some years ago I spoke many times over a year period with a guy who had left this business but had been an Exit Counselor for Cults for many years because he had been caught one in himself. He was very helpful at helping me sort through the maze of crap bouncing in my mind still at that time which I really hated but was evidently there. And trust me this was a very intelligent individual who eventually freed himself by self awareness of taking a hard look at what he was in and educating himself.

One thing he pointed out is most cults have is an authoritarian figure/leader such as LRH and without getting wordy here, he pointed out many more cults that had authoritative leaders including the one he previously was in which was a Christian based one, but not Christian Scientist. He pointed out to me how hypocritical these leaders are in what they expect from their adherents. His own cult leader demanded healthy diets, exercise regimes and did not themselves , he discovered that himself with time, that their leader did not follow their own preachings and expectations of their followers. They also demanded large sums from their adherents, expected them to live austere lives give up alot for their church but the leader lived high on the hog from the proceeds. (Sound familiar here?)

He gave me example after example what cult leaders do. How they take(its been awhile but I believe he used the word steal because cult leaders never admit to their sources) ideas from mainstream successes and rewrite them as if they 'discovered" the secrets to whatever path they are promoting. However, they take it out of context, dumb it down (his words) and make it literal so it isnt truly understood in appropriate context and settings or applications. The concepts or beliefs are abused to twist minds and thought processes of those who belong. So ultimately adherents are NOT critically thinking for themselves or questioning anything. (As a side note I distinctly recall when I first spoke with him, that much of what he was saying made absolute sense and he had facts. But I was confused and didn't know if he was even telling me the truth or if I was ever going to get over the feeling by leaving Scientology I was bad or wrong.) Glad I personally am no longer there myself. I have since gained the confidence and education on the matter myself to have my own personal grip of my experiences. hehehehee. I used his example to free myself and am grateful I got to speak with this individual. He made a huge healthy impact on me.

So, I suspect we can go through a great many cults and find all types of similarities. There is of course the checklist one can look at if wants to look at what they or a loved one is into to see if it resembles or is a cult. Those are the universals in a cult. Isolation, extreme views or opinions, extended periods of time spent away from their real lives and families. disconnections, group think, extreme pressure for conformity, self serving beliefs that promote and further the group, especially the leaders opinions, versus the well being of individuals are only a few to tick off. Not to mention some of their own vocabulary or words that is actually a method to re-educate (I like to say misinform or misdirect lol) and mind control people.

Since that sad time in my life, I've done much reading, listening, watching with my own contemplations on said subject etc ... . Over time. I've learned cults come in many guises, Christian, New Age, my god there are Alien Cults too as well as some in my adopted faith Buddhism. Honestly, a Cult isn't all that hard to walk into even for an intelligent person. Education is really the only armor one has against some cults because they can be so insidious in how they work on people's minds. Because within their doctrines are genuine ideas established successes that work, that on the surface make sense or are viable ... which have been stolen and misused to misguide adherents. This is done for control but heh everybody here knows that too. So, I am preaching to the choir :P Scientology is wrought with them as many of you know. LRH, was a con man and understood and even stated himself, that man is basically good. Most people, really in my mind are decent, even those caught in a cult trap. Cult leaders acutely understand this and capitalize on this quality about people. It makes them predators honestly.

Cult leaders share quite a few personality characteristics and warped emotional needs too such as control, power, the need for recognition. self importance, manipulation, huge egos and personally I believe they have their own issues they beat up their members over to make themselves feel better over.

I know some of you may have or still believe to some degree or another in some portion of the "tech", in this way I see how I got hooked. Long term, over the years I have had to put my experiences into perspective. Many things on the surface In Scilon land and doctrines do make sense. Examples are ethics (Not their warped hardcore version) and integrity, the belief that man is basically good, the desire to help others etc ... Socrates, Plato and Aristotle fully explored that concept and it became almost a subject unto itself after them. LRH did not discover Ethics tech or people do better with it. LOL Further speaking of source, I believe that Scilons though its off policy for them to do so (as in squirreling) should do their research on their so called source (LRH) and find the real original source LRH stole it from and dumbed down. I found it much more educational and helpful for my personal life to do so then buy into Scilon/LRH source. It also helped me to begin to free my mind of cult think. Once one starts looking or understanding what LRH actually did, it pretty much knocks him out of the genius category. Sorry someone else been there and done that long before he came along. Some may have had and I hate using this word "wins" while in. And I believe you when you say that you did, that you really did. That is the way you were and remained hooked. Whatever it was in your life at that time ... crazy relationships, literacy issues, shyness or any painful component of ones life - auditing seemed to help, well it probably did to some degree or another. And before hardliner critics who have never been in jump on me, let me tell you I went through a very long period (years) of just feeling, believing and rejecting all of Scientology in its entirety as just garbage and I am here to say you are very correct. However having to have come to terms with my own personal experiences and seeing my friends still trapped I wasn't able to just let it go and write it all off. I had a profound need to understand, why some of it had hooked me, and seemed to work some of time and not others. And yes it was only sometimes and mostly crazy in too many cases. Its not out Tech people lol. The truth is for whatever so called personal gains one could get versus the amount of destruction done financially and emotionally, mind control and other harms inflicted on you or on others just by supporting C0$ is mind boggling and not an answer to life's questions or problems. Simply put its too high of a price to pay for what is essentially a lie or just part of some truth taken out of context. It is a dangerous solution. I mean look at Tory on this board as real example for having a disease and being told not to take a medication that auditing would cure it. On a side note, when I have spoken to a few ex's they expressed I should address the wins/auditing aspect of Scientology since it is where people get hooked. And honestly anyone feel free to disagree, it is as always my humble opinion.

Before getting into my opinions about auditing, the Oatee Levels and I consider myself fortunate I never got that far and was well onto my way to when I woke up :P ..when first out and read about them it blew my mind completely. I couldnt believe I was so stupid and snookered that I didnt know about it. That I blindly believed there was something better ahead. I think I was stunned and angry about that for a very very long time. LOL. Auditing, some of it along the way I will speak about.

Auditing in itself before the Alien levels as I now call them, take painful things in your life and help you to put them more into the aware logical part of one's mind and into perspective. Modern psychology calls this cognitive therapy. And by no means, do I think that is one should do if one is attempting to repair themselves emotionally. I highly recommend if one feels unhappy, or something isnt right in their life to find a good therapist. There I said it, I am officially a SP. Nor do I believe that auditing will permanently change some portion of your character you wish to change or don't like. I happen to think that takes awareness and work to accomplish this having done it both ways myself, hehehe. But the wins some people have had (self included) and I have also read about at ESMB fall into this category in my mind and my most humble opinion. I believe those things people came to experience via the so called "Tech" come from that aspect of it. I also believe if someone is in really bad shape mentally Scientology is playing with fire because they aren't mental health experts. Evidence of that are the poor souls who committed suicide while in or doing services. I could go on ad naseum about wins or what works in Scientology pointing out where it was taken from. I will state very clearly here is the reason I reject it. Its all out there anyways the few right things about Scientology in safer sane forms and if you are interested and an intelligent person you can find it and make it your own. The insanity in Scientology either in Doctrines, how harshly they treat and make demands of individuals or the corruptness Church itself, in the end will destroy or harm your life in too many ways to recount here.

I also always keep in mind to protect myself and if I ever have to discuss this with anyone about cults, I remark that I believe one of life's most precious gifts is intellectual freedom. Something I consider each day for myself. I will never ever let anyone take that away from me again.

No enlightenment, be it spiritual or educational would expect you to give up your right or ability to learn critically, to think for oneself or question. Its what sets the human race apart from other creatures, though I love animals trust me. Its our ability to reason and is what I consider to be the nobler side of mankind. Demanding someone give that up is as insane as the cult leaders themselves.

Sometimes I have heard people say well Christianity was once small and a cult and caught on. Being small and new or different doesn't make a religion or doctrine a cult. It bothers me that some people cannot see the difference of the all named above and unnamed qualities that make a cult a cult.

As for religion (Which if someone wants to believe Aliens are a crucial part of their religion they can but I can't without laughing or thinking about Heaven Gate), it can be many people's Achilles heel because it often requires faith, a belief not necessarily built on tangible proof, but a subjective experience. It makes an an area of life easily (for some people) exploited which truly is another sad thing, and makes cult leaders truly predators and quite loathsome in my mind.

Even at the dying whimpers of Scientology. I think it is important to be able to spot a cult. There will always be a new generation to be able to tap into if they aren't made aware of cults and vulnerable people at low points of their lives for them to recruit. Education will have to continue because there will always be those people like those before them similar to LRH who will want to build an empire and control others.

OMG to long to read ... but it just sorta came out. Guess I stored it up for a long time :P

So, there is my personal view on Cults, Cult leaders and the harmful ways it effects people and society. I feel like at the top I should title this "What I did for my Summer vacation or My personal side trip in life on the path not well trodden.

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Post by Dorothy » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:53 am

I have lived near and/or seen several beautiful looking Christian Science reading rooms. I always wondered who "reads" there- ghosts? Never once in all my years did I see one single person inside or walking in and out. That always struck me as strange.

Don Carlo, none of that revealing background data on Mary Baker Eddy was in any of the texts I've read on Religions.

Lost In Space, I am currently reading about Plato and Aristotle and already I am seeing the many concepts LRon stole from them. People are attracted to these ideas, fall for the lie that they were invented by LRon, and that explains part of the spell they wind up in. Yeah, LRon was a brilliant man. But what was he brilliant AT? Creating a spell-binding environment that is difficult to extract yourself from.
“The sad truth is that most evil is done by people who never make up their minds to be good or evil.”
― Hannah Arendt

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Post by Don Carlo » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:48 am

Writers self-censor, especially when writing "Religions of the World"- type books. The dirt would be forgotten if people didn't keep it alive. You can be sure the present big religions have old, old dirt that was never written, or censored, or destroyed, or locked up in private or religious libraries.

The best way to get the dirt is often wikipedia, or google
"Christian Science" & skeptic
"Christian Science" & scandal.

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Post by Judith Anderson » Sat Aug 28, 2010 4:08 pm

This is one of the best threads on the board - ever - and I've read it through several times. For this and other reasons OCMB should not be allowed to fade away.

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Post by caroline » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:28 am

Here's a groaner.
L. Ron Hubbard wrote:Well, let’s go way back; when “a” thought first occurred, the first thing that happened was nothing. Each one of you by the way, has apparently had this experience. Then you decided to make an illusion. The first illusion was to make self. You don’t have to buy the engineering malarkey (B.S.) that imagination can’t be cause in itself.

Cause can be cause. So, here is “the” thought. It doesn’t have any reality naturally, for the simple reason that there is no one to agree with you. It’s just an illusion. Mary Baker Eddy reached back in time and got hung up on one of these and came out with, “all is illusion, think good thoughts, etc. etc.” and some extrapolations like “man is evil, but God is good, and God is all.” Even Norbert Weiner would not be able to stretch that into a logical equation. But, right up to the point where she says, “all is illusion”, there is some truth. The proof of the truth in it, is the fact that on a lot of corners you have Christian Science Temples. There must be something there.

It isn’t that all is illusion, but it certainly started that way, in so far as you personally are concerned. You did it. You thought, “All is an illusion, what will I do with it?” So you invented shape. To have shape, you had to invent space. To get motion perhaps you added time. And you have had that experience. Why else do you watch a magician and his illusions with such fascination. How you love illusion. If I should just go whoosh, and a big pillar of fire were to appear, you would at least say, “Gosh!” And so would I. There is pleasure in illusion. The most fun you ever had as a little kid was when you went to mother and said, “Hey Ma, there’s 3 tigers and 2 giraffes out in the yard, and I just put them in my wagon and ....” And she says, “NO, No.” You thought, “She’s crazy.” She isn’t crazy, but she is down there on the tone scale to where she is all mixed up in the MEST universe. She doesn’t understand that this creation of illusion is a Primary and very vital function.

Hubbard, L. R. (1952, 23 June). Technique 88: Anatomy Of Maybe. Summer Session Technique 88, (5206C23A). Lecture conducted from Phoenix, Arizona.

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