I read Dane Tops' Letter from the 80's several years ago, which is to say I made it about halfway through its 20 pages before giving up with the inane gibberish that is scientologese. This was at a point when I didn't understand all the alphabet soup and invented words which I found fascinating and hysterical and, in point of fact, still do. But I did get his point, which was that he felt someone from within was wrecking his religion. (Now where have we heard that before?)

I know that there are many board members whose main problem is with scientology itself, and understand that these individuals certainly have their reasons which will get no argument from me. But I've always felt that there were some useful techniques for self-improvement in the early stuff, including Dianetics, and there are too many entirely believable testimonies from people who describe the experience as "life changing" and so on to discount. The main goal with exteriorization and other things seemed to be helping humans to evolve as a species beyond the third dimension, which is commendable in its intentions if nothing else. ("Saving the planet" and all that.)

Given the growing evidence of previously denied government programs such as Project Paperclip and MKultra, and the alarming documentation of the near-unbelievable lengths and depths that our CIA and FBI will and have stooped to, it is a little easier to listen to Tops' theory that David Miscavige and others were and remain CIA programmed Manchurian candidates who were sent in with a specific job, which he talks about in the following 2009 interview. There are a few interesting dox from the 80's at the bottom of the page, including the letter itself.

http://projectcamelot.org/dane_tops.html

It sure would explain a lot of things. Any opinions?



Previous Clambake discussion:

http://ocmb/viewtopic.php?t=31809

I've tried to discuss this topic here on several occasions because I too think it explains things.

I don't Miscavige is a Manchurian Candidate, but I DO think he has been in-contact with the CIA. There's lots of little details out there that lead me to conclude this.

Another thing that I kind of believe to be true is that Marty is still in-contact with David Miscavige and that his playing the role of "controlled opposition." What I mean by that is, I've seen Marty speaking on behalf of the critics, but I don't really see him as a true critic. Given his previous role within the cult, there's details that Marty must be aware of, but he's not talking about them. I think this is just as disturbing.

I think everything about Scientology is disturbing, including a lot of the stuff i find on message boards.

I once spoke about 'gas lighting', stupid me, nothing has changed in Scientology for at least 60 years.

Still want to put me in a mental institution?

Lisa Marie Presley and Katie Holmes you would do well to follow Nicole Kidman and Never, Ever talk about it.You just might make the rest of us look like fucking idiots!

While YOU are swanning about in your celebrity status, you might want to think about the average John Doe who never asked to be ripped off, brain washed and end up on skid roe.You might want to think about all of the people who through NO fault of their own, had their life savings taken away from them, all in the name of planetary dissemination.

The Obliteration of Psychiatry?

The CCHR - Citizens Commission of human Rights?

Youth for Human Rights?

Narconon - Drug rehabilitation centers?

Criminon - Criminal Rehabilitation?

And, don't even get me started on the children!

The children, children who never, ever knew there was a different way of life, sec checks, meter readings, TRs, Lower Conditions, the Purif, the rehabilitation of life that was NEVER lived to start with.

SIT DOWN ON THAT CHAIR!

THANK YOU.

STAND UP!

THANK YOU.

Feel my Finger!

Thank you.

In the meantime the children of Clear Water, Florida and East. Grinstead and many other places around the globe ARE suffering, but it is alright, because Suri Cruise is feeding girraffes.

Dane Tops claim here that John Macmaster is one of the Who and the hidden source’s victims!
http://projectcamelot.org/Dane_Tops_letter.pdf

Why didn’t Top Dane ask John Macmaster, he knows Who the hidden source is, just as the Tamasin –sp knows it, it is L. Ron Hubbard look at the evidence!
http://www.scnforum.org/index.php?t=msg ... #msg_11027

What the CIA could possibly gain by studying the OT data if they, indeed, are into study of paranormal stuff? The OT data is nothing more than a figment of Hubbard's overactive imagination.
L. Ron Hubbard Junior claimed that his father was working for both the CIA and MI 5; perhaps he is the source of these CIA-Hubbard connection rumors.

That's all I read. Here's another person in $cientology frustrated and exasperated with the way the organization behaves and who has put a lot of thought into it in order to find a "why" and a "who" per "the data series" in order to reform $cientology so that it becomes benign. Was $cientology ever benign?

I think every person involved as a staff member in $cientology goes through that though few ever speak of it or write up what they think. I know I did. The data series provides the staff members with an excellent source of distraction, too.

Let me sort this all out for you. Instead of staying and trying to figure out why $cientology is such a dog's breakfast and who's responsible and how to fix it, leave $cientology and spend all that energy on making your own life better.

Don't route out. Don't sign any agreements. Don't take anything from the organization. Follow Tory's instruction: "The way out is through the nearest door." Go.

It sounds like you are still hoping for OT abilities. Maybe you had a sensation of floating outside your body during auditing. However, this sensation this can be achieved outside Scientology; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-body_experience . If Scientology could produce even occasionally the actual phenomenon, that could be proven to an outsider, they would trumpet it to the heavens. The "wins" in the Scientology magazines are anecdotes, not scientific proof. A few governments were curious about paranomal stuff in the 1970's but could never prove it, and lost interest.
As a seeker who wants science, too, you might appreciate Richard Dawkins' book, The Magic of Reality, see http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/143919 ... 1439192812

Thank you for the book suggestion, DC. Some good understandable Science for an Art & English major like myself. I found it somewhat incongruous how the author wove meticulously researched mythology from a lot of different times and places throughout the entire narrative (every chapter!) and stated, "So far as I know there are few, if any, ancient myths about alien life elsewhere in the universe." Then again, maybe he's still connecting the dots. "(Chalchiuhtlicue) cried tears of blood for 52 years without stopping ... Isn't it strange, by the way, how exactly myths specify little details? How did the Aztecs decide that she cried for 52 years, not 51 or 53?" How indeed.

If you are a seeker you might appreciate "The Wes Penre Papers" which can be found online.

I read the complete interview,I started readind the letter but couldn't bring myself to finish. Some parts of the interview to me are both disturbing and amusing at the same time. I needed a few minutes to regain my composure when I read about the cloning of Hubbard. Although I laughed, I found it quite disturbing that some firm LRH believers will go to such great lengths to defend and try to justify his sadistic, inhumane, sociopathic behavior. Just my opinion......

Thank you for taking the time to actually read it, Chantal. Most people today do not have the attention span neccessary to read anything of this length due to their minds being short circuited by beer commercials, pro football, Mortal Kombat, internet porn, or whatever their excuse happens to be at that time.
Here is George Green talking about cloning presidents:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCD6dk2Otk8

George Green is very rich. He turned down a high level position in the United States Treasury when Ted Kennedy told him he would like to have sex with a nearby 14-year-old girl who was, unbeknownst to Kennedy, Green's daughter.

Bubbler I have read all Richard Dawkins books except “Our Ancestors Tail” in my bookshelf.
It just happens that I am reading “The Magic of Reality” and can verify that your quote; “cried for 52 years is in the chapter 6 what is the sun? Page 125” but where does he said the other quote; “So far as I know there are few, if any, ancient myths about alien life elsewhere in the universe."? I know that a year is made up of 52 weeks but still haven’t the faintest Clue why “she cried for 52 years, not 51 or 53?"? Maybe you can tell it explicitly?

Your suggestion that David Miscavige is a CIA plant can explain lot of things, but David Miscavige was only 5 years old 1965 when John Macmaster was over boarded, and is thus not a very likely explanation. Dane Top ultimately have space Opera in mind in the sense that it is ET’s from outer space namely from Marcab who is behind it all, and Miscavige is their dupe. Occam's Razor is what Science use in order to prune, and adjust their explanations for a phenomenon. Science is not logical deductions, but is based upon inferences and thus disconfirming evidence tells us more about reality than evidence for something. In example when we discovered that our Geocentric Solar system Model was wrong. The links below is Messages by me with disconfirming evidence against Dane Top’s model, and also with some of his ilk represented!
http://www.scnforum.org/index.php?t=msg ... #msg_18067

http://www.scnforum.org/index.php?t=msg ... #msg_10881

http://www.scnforum.org/index.php?t=msg ... #msg_10937

bubbler, thanks for the link. I'm not disputing the powers of the CIA, MI 5 or government deceptions. I just don't believe there was any of them who thought LRH was a genius worthy of their attention. I've heard the Paul McCartney is dead and MI 5 replaced him stories. I also extensively researched the Franklin cover ups by John DeCamp.I know how Johnny Gosch was kidnapped and was later believed to be Jeff Gannon at the white house with GWB. Paul Bonacci, Troy Boner, just to name a few allegedly kidnapped by the CIA,forced into sex slave rings, kiddie porn, snuff films at Bohemian Grove with H S Thompson as director/producer.I know what they are capable of. I just don't believe a lunatic like LRH was a candidate. Sorry for going off topic,just saying I don't have blinders on when it comes to corruption high up. To me, this one was quite far fetched. Again, my opinion....

My only intent with this thread is to offer some reasons why we might give some consideration to the opinions of Mr. "Dane Tops" (whoever he might be).

Thank you for your thoughtful response, Peter.
"So far as I know..." Chap.9 p.1
"How did the Aztecs decide that she cried for 52 years..." I would suggest that the Aztecs did not "decide" anything; they were merely reporting the facts as they understood them to be.
"Miscavige was only 5 years old..." There is some precedent.
The following are autobiographies by women claiming to be victims of trauma-based mind control as administered by the US government under the auspicies of the CIA's MKultra program, all of whom say their experiences began before the age of 5. Beware. These books are not for the faint of heart.

"Trance-Formation of America" by Cathy O'Brien
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/socio ... mation.htm
"Thanks For the Memories" by Brice Taylor
http://www.conspirazzi.com/e-books/mind ... mories.pdf
"Unshackled" by Kathleen Sullivan
http://isohunt.com/torrent-details/3700 ... ab=summary
"Reflections In the Night" by Mauri
http://www.reflectionsinthenight.com
"Paperclip Dolls" by Annie McKenna
"Secret Weapons" by Lynne & Cheryl Hersha
"A Nation Betrayed" by Carol Rutz

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tNc7Bt3QzI

I will admit that this is a stretch. However, the stretch becomes abundantly shorter if we consider the possibility that the CIA approached a teenaged Miscavige and masturbated his bloated ego.