SP DECLARES ~~ more about

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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by butwehave11 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:53 am

The interesting thing about the bible is that it has existed in some form or another as a guide for thousands of years. For instance that passage in Exodus 21 is actually quite interesting, and I will use this passage as hopefully a small teaching tool for those questioning how to critically read the written word. It is an invaluable tool when wishing to divine the true intent of those writing the words.

Before I begin I'd like to go explain something, these were written as laws, meaning their intents were to be taken literally. We'll get into why that's important later, but it is important to keep that it is literal in mind. And, for the most part, when laws are made the process that goes into making them is usually very thought out, meaning that if they made a law for it, their most probably was a reason.

There probably wouldn't be a law against theft if no one stole anything.

We'll go through this line by line.

If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do.

This is fairly vague, it only ascertains that there is a difference between the ways that male and female slaves get released from service. But if you think about it, it has some fairly large implications, such as that even at the level of slaves, their is a difference and possibly a pecking order to how women and men are treated. This hints at a highly patriarchal society, however considering the time period and the area this is unremarkable.

If she does not please the master who has selected her for himself, he must let her be redeemed.

This is very interesting, suggesting that a master beforehand may have had the ability to cast out a slave girl who displeased him, or perhaps even execute her outright. But then that this right was revoked by the early Hebrews.

He has no right to sell her to foreigners, because he has broken faith with her.

So a master cannot sell his slave girl to foreigners? Maybe the Hebrews felt the other cultures treated their slaves much to roughly. Or maybe this was a backwards way of ensuring that eventually the slave would be released in jubilee.

If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter.

Many would believe that this would mean the servant girl would no longer be treated as a slave, however I think that it has a far more specific meaning. Early cultures in the Mideast considered the female uterus to be property, quite literally this meant they had sexual rights to women that they bought. The Babylonians and the Early Greeks shared this view as well. As examples of both I point to the Illiad and Hammurabi's code.

Although the Minoans appear to have treated women as equals.

But back to the topic, this passage means that a man cannot have sex with the future wife of his son just because she is currently his slave, I can only assume that the necessity of this law being written was that it must have been at least occasionally happening.

I know these are horrible, terrible things, but believe it or not, they are early advances in human rights. To them, they might have actually been seen as revolutionary.

If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

Again, this is treating women as something more than just tools for doing housework and making children. And also their is a suggestion of rights being ascribed to women, specifically wives. If she is not given these things she goes free, which those days meant back to her family, who would probably put her back on the market for a new husband.


Anyone who attacks their father or mother is to be put to death.

Interesting for many reasons, the Hebrews must have considered the family unit very important to enact this law. Also it says father or mother, meaning that women were ascribed status of some sort at motherhood that they weren't in other cultures. It also is an incredibly harsh sentence, meaning that the Hebrews believed in using punishment as a deterrent towards future crime.

Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession.

Fairly simple, but it leaves me wondering, what circumstances would lead to this exact wording? What person assumed that just because a perpetrator sold the kidnapped person they were no longer guilty of kidnapping? I will have to read more about the context of this law in particular in order to divine its reasoning.

Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.

Wow, the family unit must have been central to early Hebrew culture. This is harsh even by the standards of the time. One must wonder why, it is possible considering the relatively small size of Hebrew culture at the time this was made to ensure that their were no dangerous divisions between families. It deserves study, but it might be because early Hebrew culture attitudes towards the family unit molded the laws around the protection of the family unit.

At the end considering that most of the laws are made to protect women, however horrifying their implications are they are made for the protection of women.

Most would wonder why these laws were necessary to have been made, it might have been for the prevention of violence, specifically vendetta. Think of the conflict that would be created in a relationship if your father was allowed by law to have sex with your future wife.

Laws are created by the government in order to do two things, appease the people, and to prevent the cyclical expanding nature of vendetta.

Your father sleeps with your future wife, you punch him, he kills you, your brothers kill him, your uncles kill your brothers, and on, and on.

Or, you steal your neighbors goat, he burns your barn down, so your sons rape his daughters.

These are horrible things to say, all the more horrible because in certain cultures which are considerably more lawless, they still happen.

http://www.iheu.org/iheu-condemns-sudan ... cal-weapon

If allowed, think of the consequences for a government, the cycle can become so large that it can lead to the weakening of government, leading to possibilities of insurrection, invasion, and revolution. As such allowing these things is foolish, and will only lead to more and more horrors.

sorry for the dark thoughts, but it is important while reading these passages to always seek the truth, unvarnished and bare. Like an ingrown toenail, it is disgusting, sometimes bloody and almost always painful. But left alone it will grow worse and worse.

These are observations, and not meant to be taken as proven facts, only as thoughts espoused from a barely conscious mind at 3AM.
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by caroline » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:24 pm

I'm grateful for your insights, butwehave11, thank you.

Thanks also to J. Swift for bringing your A-game to this discussion. As a reminder, J. Swift has announced that he's a Master Mason and Knight Templar, author of The Origin of the Universe and the Masonic Pyramid: The Queen of Heaven, and that he wants to attract followers.
J. Swift wrote:I do not oppose the practice of Scientology, but I am of the opinion that the Indies should join OTO if they really want to experience the same spiritual initiations that L. Ron Hubbard did.

OCMB thread: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32646&p=379497
I thought I'd post David Mayo's SP declare for review and discussion. Perhaps Karen #1 would like to comment on this issue.

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Source: http://freezone.najbjerg.info/dokumenta ... sp_declare
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by J. Swift » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:24 pm

Caroline, yes I am a Master Mason and a Knight Templar. Yes I have written a book. My book makes it clear that I have my own spiritual cosmology that is quite distinct from Scientology. I would like to form a spiritual study group and may someday. This is quite aside from the subject at hand, but I understand your need to document things.

*****
Even ignoring the Hebrew scriptures, which scriptures the Christians appropriated and called the Old Testament, the New Testament itself is also controversial. The New Testament seeks to protects families except when Jesus decides that your family members are, err, suppressive and that disconnection is needed:
"Don't think I've come to make life cozy. I've come to cut — make a sharp knife-cut between son and father, daughter and mother, bride and mother-in-law—cut through these cozy domestic arrangements and free you for God. Well-meaning family members can be your worst enemies. If you prefer father or mother over me, you don't deserve me. If you prefer son or daughter over me, you don't deserve me.
Ref: Matthew 10:34-37, The Message

Jesus actually said this and you can check it out for yourself. However, Christian churches ignore this horrific verse and do not break up families - this although Jesus demanded it. Jesus did not want "well-meaning family members" getting in the way of a person's commitment to him. Christians, however, selectively apply scripture like all other religions. My point here is that many religious movements have brutal scriptures that force believers to separate themselves from non-believers. Scientology is hardly unique in this regard. This does not excuse its SP Doctrine, Disconnection, etc. but it shows that even the major religions do not brook dissent from within and will excommunicate people who do not agree. There have always been religious extremists, especially early in the history of a sect or a cult. This is why such groups have to moderate or become a fringe group that eventually disbands. The Church of Scientology is unique in that it has used religious brutality in uncommon and uncommonly expensive ways; most religions do not pursue outspoken former members or prominent critics and journalists with such pure hatred and an incredibly expensive private intelligence bureau.

Religious history argues that Scientology will continue to schism and that moderates will selectively apply scripture like all other religions. Matthew 10:34-37 is part of Christianity's "SP Doctrine," is still a part of Holy Writ, and has been consigned to the dustbin in the everyday life of Christianity.

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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by caroline » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:28 pm

J. Swift wrote:Even ignoring the Hebrew scriptures, which scriptures the Christians appropriated and called the Old Testament, the New Testament itself is also controversial. The New Testament seeks to protects families except when Jesus decides that your family members are, err, suppressive and that disconnection is needed:
"Don't think I've come to make life cozy. I've come to cut—make a sharp knife-cut between son and father, daughter and mother, bride and mother-in-law—cut through these cozy domestic arrangements and free you for God. Well-meaning family members can be your worst enemies. If you prefer father or mother over me, you don't deserve me. If you prefer son or daughter over me, you don't deserve me.
Ref: Matthew 10:34-37, The Message

Jesus actually said this and you can check it out for yourself. However, Christian churches ignore this horrific verse and do not break up families - this although Jesus demanded it. Christians selectively apply scripture like all other religions. My point here is that many religious movements have brutal scriptures that force believers to separate themselves from non-believers. Scientology is hardly unique in this regard. This does not excuse its SP Doctrine, Disconnection, etc. but it shows that even the major religions do not brook dissent from within and will excommunicate people who do not agree. There have always been religious extremists, especially early in the history of a sect or a cult. This is why such groups have to moderate or become a fringe group that eventually disbands.

Religious history argues that Scientology will continue to schism and that moderates will selectively apply scripture like all other religions. Matthew 10:34-37 is Christianity's SP Doctrine, is still a part of Holy Writ, and has been consigned to the dustbin in the everyday life of Christianity.

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I looked up the Bible reference, and the verses do say that. I think Butwehave11's insights could be applied to the New Testament too.

Scientology and Scientologists have a tremendous opportunity, this very day, to select out the SP doctrine and completely renounce it, and remove it entirely from their scriptures, including from all Narconon, Criminon, VM and other Scientology outreach programs and propaganda materials. Removing the SP doctrine would probably gut their religion. I'd be okay with that, and, regardless, I'm convinced it's what must be done to evolve, and for everyone's protection and peace.

David Mayo's SP declare was devastating for me. Until then, he had been a symbol for standard tech around the world, and, because I had been a techie in the Sea Org, he was my first authority under L. Ron Hubbard. People were getting declared all around me during that period, including my own husband. Reading this document was, I'd imagine, something like finding out in the LA Times that your twins' pediatrician was one Josef Mengele.
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by J. Swift » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:12 am

The Church of Scientology's convert Mr. Farrakhan has a very "SP" friend in Moammar Ghadafi. Nevertheless, Mr. Farrakhan has not been ordered, per the SP Doctrine, to disconnect. Mr. Ghadafi has outlawed all religions except for Islam in Libya. Therefore, Ghadafi opposes Scientology's mere presence in Libya. A Google search for "Gaddafi Sadism" yields 1.18 million hits. Yet, Mr. Farrakhan is allowed to remain very much connected to a true antisocial personality, a dictator figure who has slaughtered his own people. If anything, Mr. Farrakhan declared Ghadafi to be a friend a few weeks ago as was widely reported in the media: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/2 ... 29024.html

Ghadafi is an SP by definition and yet Mr. Farrakhan is acting as if he has not written him the required Disconnection letter per the sacred scriptures of Scientology. Why has this travesty been allowed to happen in a Church where scripture and ecclesiastical justice policies are always 100% standardly applied by sane, caring persons in a just, dispassionate, and flawless way each and every minute of every day? Do the new monies and recruits expected to flow in from NOI outweigh the SP Doctrine by millions and millions of dollars? I say yes. Indeed, according to *Indie* reports DM has ordered that NOI members in CoS not be crushed regged.

This certainly argues that the SP Doctrine is very selectively and arbitrarily applied at the highest echelons of the Cult as well as the lowest: One can be declared an SP or RPF'd in CoS in a sham Comm Ev for simply having angered the wrong person or having a statcrash. Conversely, one's chances of being declared an SP seem to decrease in proportion to the wealth, power, and influence one can offer David "the Undeclarable SP" Miscavige.

An "SP Declare" in CoS assumes that there is an honest and functional justice system in a Cult where there is no justice.

How many stories of unjust and arbitrary SP Declares have been posted online? Why was Reed Slatkin not declared an SP until after he was arrested? Why was Rex Fowler not declared an SP before he pulled a trigger?

Is it not absurd of us to debate an insane policy? Or are we just having our particular brand fun once again on OCMB?

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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by sekh » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:20 am

Nobody asks Christian groups to censure their Holy Books. But we do expect them to be clear about the fact that some verses (about stoning people, slavery, chopping off limbs, slaughtering unarmed enemies etc.) are obsolete and no longer used in daily life.
The Jewish community did expect the Roman Catholic Church to apologize for centuries of anti-Semitism. And it did.
The Native American peoples did expect the Catholic church to acknowledge the wrongs done by the conquistadores in name of the Faith. The pope did apologize. He also did (albeit late, but he did) admit that the Church was wrong in the Gallileo Galilei case, and admitted the earth revolves around the sun, the earth is spherical and, on the subject of evolution, that the first chapters of Genesis are not to be taken literally. Progress has been made without changing the Holy books, just by changes in their interpretation.

IMO, the same thing can be done by Scientologists. I understand the hesitation to start cutting pieces out of their Scriptures. We don't ask Christians to do that, so why should Scientologists? Just because their Scripture is newer? That's no argument, at least not one that makes sense.
But if the Scientologists, as a religious community, ever want to be be trusted by the world at large, they will have to adapt to this era of information and be open about the rightful questions critics have. Not one letter needs to be changed in Hubbard's writings. What needs to change is the way Scientologists respond to those writings. Not to take them blindly, at face value, but think about their function in modern society, like many Christian denominations were forced to do. And in some cases just say that the policy is no longer in use. Never.

The Bible, -or better- the Christian Canon, went through massive changes in the first centuries of its existence. It had to, to survive the changing situation Christianity was faced with. Over the following centuries the canon was set into it's current form.
The interpretation however, kept changing continuously, up to today. That adaptability is why Christianity is able to survive in modern times.

If Scientology followers want a future, be it as Indies, as Freezone or in another form, they have to distance themselves from the excesses of the current organized form of the religion.
If they don't, they will lose credibility; among critics, exes and general public alike. The press and the mainstream public don't give jack about the subtile differences between various branches of the cult. They just remember SP/PTS, RPF and slave-labor, fair-game policy and all the lying. Not a base to build trust upon. This mistrust will be stronger among those who know more about Scientology's history, or even became victim to it themselves.

Oh well, just some late-night personal thoughts on the subject. Wether they make much sense or not I leave to the readers. Hopefully I managed to order my thoughts on this many-sided subject a bit. Which makes it easier for me to follow the thoughts of others. At least that's what I tried to achieve. :? Goodnight, folks. It's 3 AM here, time to go to bed. :zzz:

Edit; just some grammar bugs. It was obviously late when I wrote this.
Last edited by sekh on Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by caroline » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:55 am

sekh wrote:Nobody asks Christian groups to censure their Holy Books. But we do expect them to be clear about the fact that some verses (about stoning people, slavery, chopping off limbs, slaughtering unarmed enemies etc.) are obsolete and no longer used in daily life.
The Jewish community did expect the Roman Catholic Church to apologize for centuries of anti-Semitism. And it did.
The Native American peoples did expect the Catholic church to acknowledge the wrongs done by the conquistadores in name of the Faith. The pope did apologize. He also did (albeit late, but he did) admit that the Church was wrong in the Gallileo Galilei case, and admitted the earth revolves around the sun, the earth is spherical and, on the subject of evolution, that the first chapters of Genesis are not to be taken literally. Progress has been made without changing the Holy books, just by changes in their interpretation.

IMO, the same thing can be done by Scientologists. I understand the hesitation to start cutting pieces out of their Scriptures. We don't ask Christians to do that, so why should Scientologists? Just because their Scripture is newer? That's no argument, at least not one that makes sense.
But if the Scientologists, as a religious community, ever wants to be be trusted by the world at large, they will have to adapt to this era of information and be open about the rightful questions critics have. Not one letter needs to be changed in Hubbard's writings. What needs to change is the way Scientologists respond to those writings. Not to take them blindly, at face value, but think about their function in modern society, like many Christian denominations were forced to do. And in some cases just say that the policy is no longer in use. Never.

The Bible, -or better- the Christian Canon, went through massive changes in the first centuries of its existence. It had to, to survive the changing situation Christianity was faced with. Over the following centuries the canon was set into it's current form.
The interpretation however, kept changing continuously, up to today. That adaptability is why Christianity is able to survive in modern times.

If Scientology followers wants a future, be it as Indies, as Freezone or in another form, they have to distance themselves from the excesses of the current organized form of the religion.
If they don't, they will lose credibility; among critics, exes and general public alike. The press and the mainstream public don't give jack about the subtile differences between various branches of the cult. They just remember SP/PTS, RPF and slave-labor, fair-game policy and all the lying. Not a base to build trust upon. This mistrust will be stronger among those who know more about Scientology's history, or even became victim to it themselves.

Oh well, just some late-night personal thoughts on the subject. Wether they make much sense or not I leave to the readers. Hopefully I managed to order my thoughts on this many-sided subject a bit. Which makes it easier for me to follow the thoughts of others. At least that's what I tried to achieve. :? Goodnight, folks. It's 3 AM here, time to go to bed. :zzz:
You make some good points, sekh. I'm not suggesting anyone but the Scientologists cut out their SP doctrine. They're the ones who need to have a cog. They also face a lot of reparations for the all the victimizing they're doing, but first things first.
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by skeptic2girl » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:02 am

"Don't think I've come to make life cozy. I've come to cut—make a sharp knife-cut between son and father, daughter and mother, bride and mother-in-law—cut through these cozy domestic arrangements and free you for God. Well-meaning family members can be your worst enemies. If you prefer father or mother over me, you don't deserve me. If you prefer son or daughter over me, you don't deserve me.

Ref: Matthew 10:34-37, The Message
To call the passage above akin to an SP declare is taking the verse completely out of context and, I would argue, misinterpreting it. Also, it appears that the translation from "The Message" is tongue-in-cheek, but if we're going to discuss this seriously, I want to include a translation more universally recognized as accurate...

Here's the New International Version translation of Matthew 10:34-37:
"Do not suppose I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn, 'a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law -- a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; (and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.)"
The part in quotations is verse 38, which I included because verse 37 ends in the middle of a sentence and by not quoting the whole sentence one loses context.

Christians do not ignore this passage; it is famous and revered. The words are taken from the speech that Jesus gave to the 12 apostles before sending them out to heal and evangelize. The part about coming to turn "a man against his father..." et al. is a quote from Micah 7:6, according to the footnotes in my Bible.

The very shortest version of my argument against the passage being a kind of Christian SP declare was that Jesus confirmed to his followers that He was God in human form.
For Christians, loving God more than your mother, brother, husband, father, daughter, etc. is what you're supposed to do.

Jesus was not talking about an actual sword. From what I can interpret, he meant that the apostles would encounter considerable opposition from the people they would meet in their journey. Just like today, religious views were powerful and controversial. The message that Jesus came to give was fiery and although holding different beliefs might cause family members to part ways, becoming estranged from one's loved ones who hold different beliefs and openly disagree with yours was neither then nor now a requirement of Christianity, as it is in Scientology.
"The truth is out there."

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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by butwehave11 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 5:49 pm

excellent post skeptic2girl
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by Judith Anderson » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:39 pm

So far my Cultie relative has missed 3 weddings, 2 births, 3 family reunions 5 graduations and many other occasions because of nearly 23 years of disconnections. The lesson that his children are learning is that none of these things really matter compared to heeding the dictates of Scientology which one must do at all costs. But at what a cost. He has no idea how fragile this world is that he has created for himself.

So who is really the loser here?

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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by skeptic2girl » Mon Apr 18, 2011 6:52 pm

butwehave11 wrote:excellent post skeptic2girl
Thanks, butwehave! :)
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by caroline » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:43 pm

Here's Gerry's thoughts on the Bible reference J. Swift mentioned earlier: Truth and Consequences.
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by Sponge » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:10 pm

In this article today, from The Daily (Flash column), in the Media Reports section viewtopic.php?p=397205#p397205 which reports on Cruises's daughter allegedly leaving home because of daddy's obession with scientology, Mike Rinder is quoted. He comments about disconnection and SP doctrine. So, do we assume that to mean the indies have rejected SP doctrine from their "puretech"?
Former chief scientology spokesman, Mike Rinder, who left the church in 2007, told Flash that scientology encourages cutting ties with defectors, who are often deemed "suppressive persons", or "SPs."
Please do elaborate more, Mr.Rinder. Do you or do you not practice SP doctrine in any way, shape or form, as an independent scientologist?

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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by J. Swift » Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:41 am

In his rebuke to me over Mark 10:34-37, Gerry Armstrong seems to argue that Jesus said one thing but actually meant another. This might be considered "squirrel" to those Christian fundamentalists who insist that every word spoken by Christ is literal, that it actually mean what it says, but I nevertheless understand Mr. Armstrong's sensibility: Matthew 10:34-37 presents a profound challenge to Christians who want a gentle, sedate Jesus and not the hardcore street preacher who also demanded that:
If your hand or your foot gets in God's way, chop it off and throw it away. You're better off maimed or lame and alive than the proud owner of two hands and two feet, godless in a furnace of eternal fire. And if your eye distracts you from God, pull it out and throw it away. You're better off one-eyed and alive than exercising your twenty-twenty vision from inside the fire of hell.
ref: Mark 9:48

Jesus was a spiritual revolutionary who so angered the Romans and the Sanhedrin that they murdered him. Yet even despite his murder, the message of Christ proved so powerful that a scant 312 years after his death the Emperor Constantine became a Christian. Of course, Constantine then forced Christianity upon the inhabitants of Rome under dire threats of execution for refusal, a trend the Catholic Church would enforce with armies and violence for the next 1500 years. It was only after the Episcopalians instituted Easter egg hunts for children in 1834 that things quieted down. 1834 was also coincidentally the same year that the Spanish Inquisition ended.

******
Having attended a Christian university and minored in Biblical Studies I was naturally skeptical of Mr. Armstrong's exegetical work on Matthew 10:34-37. I was also somewhat taken aback by skeptic2girl's having called The Message a "tongue-in-cheek" translation. The Message is translation made by Eugene H. Peterson:
Peterson was born in East Stanwood, Washington and grew up in Kalispell, Montana. He earned his B.A. in philosophy from Seattle Pacific University, his S.T.B. (Sacred Theology Bachelors)from New York Theological Seminary, and his M.A. in Semitic languages from Johns Hopkins University. In 1962, Peterson was a founding pastor of Christ Our King Presbyterian Church (PCUSA) in Bel Air, Maryland, where he served for 29 years before retiring in 1991. He was Professor of Spiritual Theology at Regent College in Vancouver, British Columbia until retiring in 2006. He now lives in Montana.
ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_H._ ... cite_ref-0

Due to the protest by Armstrong and skeptic2girl that Matthew 10:34-37 does not mean what it says, I went to the original Greek text in the ΚΑΤΑ ΜΑΤΘΑΙΟΝ to look at the verses in question:
Μὴ νομίσητε ὅτι ἦλθον βαλεῖν εἰρήνην ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν• οὐκ ἦλθον βαλεῖν εἰρήνην ἀλλὰ μάχαιραν.
ἦλθον γὰρ διχάσαι ἄνθρωπον κατὰ τοῦ πατρὸς αὐτοῦ καὶ θυγατέρα κατὰ τῆς μητρὸς αὐτῆς καὶ νύμφην κατὰ τῆς πενθερᾶς αὐτῆς, καὶ ἐχθροὶ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου οἱ οἰκιακοὶ αὐτοῦ.
http://scripturetext.com/matthew/10-36.htm

The Greek text tells us that Jesus actually meant what he said:
"Don't think I've come to make life cozy. I've come to cut—make a sharp knife-cut between son and father, daughter and mother, bride and mother-in-law—cut through these cozy domestic arrangements and free you for God. Well-meaning family members can be your worst enemies. If you prefer father or mother over me, you don't deserve me. If you prefer son or daughter over me, you don't deserve me.
*****
The general argument against my quoting Bible verses in this thread is that the passage of time has somehow mitigated or obsoleted the horror of what the Bible actually says. If this is the argument, then who picks and chooses what parts of the Bible may be ignored and what parts must be obeyed? One answer is Martin Luther's argument for the Priesthood of the Believer. If this concept is broadly applied, then one can argue that religious freedom is about all believers being free to accept or reject the various doctrines of their belief system.

Why can Christians and Jews so freely pick and choose from their "Written by God" scriptures but Scientologists cannot? It seems to me that the Indies are exercising a form of Luther's concept of the Priesthood of the Believer. This exercise of individualism happens wehn any religious movement schisms. True, my arguments do not satisfy some critics, but then again some critics have a double standard going on in which Mercy and Compassion are only shown to those who agree with them: It is okay if your God of Love once lost his temper and drowned the entire human race save Noah and his family. However, anyone who uses an E-Meter is a heretic to be burned at the stake.


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Last edited by J. Swift on Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:43 am, edited 6 times in total.
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caroline
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Re: SP DECLARES ~~ more about

Post by caroline » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:13 am

Thanks for your comments, J. Swift. It would probably be good to make a new thread if the Bible reference needs further debate at this time, because it is so unrelated to SP declares.
INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.

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