Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

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Don Carlo
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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:19 pm

Tad, ask your org staff friends how much money they were paid last week and how many hours they worked. Do you dare?

Don Carlo
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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:37 pm

Sorry to neglect your education, Tad; I was camping away from a computer. Next topic: skeptical sites. You're a techie guy, Tad, so you should appreciate science and reality. I recommend several sites which debunk the "woo" (anti-science) that is misleading and sometimes exploiting people. My favorite sites:

Pharyngula by P.Z. Myers, a bio professor who debunks creationists and other myths with thoughtful science and sarcasm, at http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/

Skeptic, the website for Skeptic Magazine published by famed skeptic Michael Shermer at http://www.skeptic.com/

Skeptical Inquirer, the website for the magazine of the same name, at http://www.csicop.org/si/

Bad Science - Even PhD scientists can know sin - skeptics hold scientists to a strict standard of truth-telling and good technique - http://www.badscience.net/

Links to Skeptical websites and groups world-wide at http://www.skepsis.nl/slinks.html

Google your city and "skeptic" to find local groups, like
National Capital Area Skeptics for Washington DC at http://www.ncas.org/
The Greater L.A. Skeptics Meetup Group at http://www.meetup.com/skeptics-136/ and
Tampa Bay Skeptics at http://www.tampabayskeptics.org/

These sites helped me grow as a critical thinker, and educated me about specific issues. I was mush-brained about paranormal powers in the 1970's; I wish I'd had these sites back then.

And yes, if you type in Scientology on each site's search box, you do get a scientist's unflattering perspective on Scientology. For example, http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011 ... feated.php

Don Carlo
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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:09 am

I'm exploring all my favorite topics. Maybe one fact or idea will get one person to quit Scientology, Tad or someone else. That would be worth it for me. I freely admit I'm obsessed with unmasking Scientology.

Don Carlo
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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:04 pm

Maybe, Tad, you don't want to read scientist-skeptic sites since you think they're "run by the psychs" or they're "bigots" and "haters." Scientists are harsh - new ideas are often scoffed at for decades, and careers unfairly suffer. But when the idea is proven, scientists open up and accept. When Luis Alvarez theorized that an enormous comet struck the earth (possibly killing off most dinosaurs), scientists scoffed and demanded to know "where is the crater?" This stimulated a search, and the likely candidate emerged in the Gulf of Mexico, called Chicxulub.* So, scientific skepticism advanced science.
When the evidence is instantly clear, scientists are very accepting. Wilhelm Röntgen announced cathode-ray generators could produce X-ray images, scientists and doctors worldwide tested it for themselves. It worked, and Röntgen became a scientific hero.
It's the unprovable mush in many religions and "spiritual technology" that scientists like P.Z. Myers unmask. While Scientology is stuck in the 1950's, science has brought us into the 21st century with many benefits.
* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicxulub_crater

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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:29 pm

Tad, do you believe everything Hubbard wrote? How about freight trains on Venus? Laurie Hamilton, a Scientologist willing to talk about these usually forbidden topics, said that was obviously a joke, and mentioning Xenu, say that "we don't have to believe a word" of it.

However, Xenu IS a core fact, according to Scientology dogma.
The following comments were made by an ex-Scientology auditor and Case Supervisor named Caroline Letkeman, who was highly trained (Class IX) to administer the Scientology "technology" on the Upper Levels of Scientology's Bridge, including OT3: Begin quote.
In order for scn (Scientology) to "work" at the upper levels, the person must accept the OT 3 incident as a literal and factual matter. If the
person does not experience the fragmented condition as a "conscious and literal fact", or if he cannot accept Hubbard's interpretation of
the psychological phenomena expected at this level, the person is labeled a "bypassed case" and is sent back to redo his lower levels.
I.e., his psychological state must be such that he can see his psychological complexes as external autonomous entities, and he must
be able to literally address these entities with the exact volcano story as given by Hubbard.

There is no getting around this point technically--either the incident is real and "processible" or the person has not validly made his lower
grades. According to the technical materials of Scientology, there is no one on this earth who has escaped the incident or who is immune to
its effects. That is why Hubbard labeled it as the "4th dynamic engram."

Therefore, there is no further Bridge progress possible unless and until the person can subjectively experience the required
psychological condition and its associated Hubbardian interpretation.

The Scientologist at OT 3 is not addressed on the basis of his "beliefs" about Hubbard's materials. He is handled on the basis of Hubbard's "scientific" evaluation of his literal psychological condition. If the psychological condition of the person at OT 3 is not sufficiently fragmented and projected outward, he will not be able to accept the OT 3 incident as given by Hubbard as a valid interpretation of his condition.

That Scientology publicly protests criticism of their "religious beliefs" is itself dangerously misleading, in my opinion. Hubbard did not characterize the OT 3 incident as a "belief"--he taught it as a factual incident and as a scientifically researched psychological
explanation for the state that OT 3's find themselves in at that level.
from Caroline Letkeman
"The Road to Xenu" has the handwritten pages by Ron which "start" the Xenu story, including Ron himself saying the story was data (not belief):

Ron :
In December 1967 I knew someone had to take the plunge. I did and emerged very knocked out, but alive. Probably the only one ever to do so in 75,000,000 years. I have all the data now, but only that given here is needful.
from Ron

The LA Times noted that the Scientologists thought the OT III levels were EXTREMELY important -
Scientologists have been trying to prevent the release of the documents, which they consider secret and sacred, and about 1500 church
members crammed three floors of the Los Angeles County Courthouse on Monday, effectively blocking public access to documents.
... In arguing to keep the court documents sealed, the church has told its members that it could be physically and spiritually harmful for them to learn about the upper levels of Scientology before they have mastered the preparatory courses. Scientology attorneys have argued that disclosure of the material violates the group's religious freedom.
...For hours on Monday, Scientologists swamped workers in the clerk's office with hundreds of requests to photocopy the documents.
...Scientologists, by snaking the line through three courthouse hallways, made sure they were the only ones to buy copies of the materials
.

* http://en.allexperts.com/q/Scientology- ... -space.htm
Last edited by Don Carlo on Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Sponge
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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Sponge » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:18 pm

Don Carlo wrote:
Sponge wrote:DC, would you like me to move this thread to Opinions & Debate where it might suit your purposes better or do you prefer to leave it here?
Whatever you like, Sponge. It started with the Village Voice media, but is turning into just "opinion" since Tad's not arriving to "debate."
Thread moved from Media Reports to Opinions & Debate.

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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:15 pm

Tad, you've been trained to be as "high-toned" as possible. Here is CoS's ideal tone, "Enthusiasm:"*
Image
It's closer to a dog waiting for his master to throw a stick, than a thinking person.
What's wrong with this amount of perkiness? You have to dump the doubt, dump the wit, dump the insight. It's all hip-hip-horray, and no "why are there so many mean critics?" and "why is the org almost empty?" and "where's Miscavige's wife?"
One sign of an authoritarian group that only wants approved info and facts, is that it rewrites history. The ancient Egyptians were averse to self-criticism; scholars have to piece together outside info, and examine the start and finish of a mysterious gap in Egyptian history, to uncover a lost battle or a lost war. On the other hand, the Hittites, a more realistic and king=human place, wrote about their mistakes and failures. This meant in practice that talking about a Pharoah's past or future failure in Egypt might get you executed, whereas in the Hittite Kingdom, generals could discuss their mistakes (or even their king's mistakes) and keep their heads. Where would you rather work, where there is fear? Or where there is respect?

You may say, what mistakes? CoS is the most ethical and fastest growing blah blah blah. And mistakes are talked about. But...not mistakes made by Miscavige, and not mistakes made by Hubbard. There CoS is silent. Yet those mistakes and abuses happened. Just Google "Miscavige" or Google "L. Ron Hubbard" and see what the outside world has observed.

http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH4_1.HTM

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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:35 am

Staff and public act frightened or angry or blank when I have picketed, and they hastily rush into the buildings and lower the blinds. I wonder why those supposedly great communication courses don't apply when Scientologists need them the most - when they're being criticized. I get the feeling that the courses mostly teach you to listen in order to handle immature or naive people, or when talking to neutral people, to match their tone and use other tricks to get them to agree with you. Smart, sarcastic picketers are more challenging.

I know some staff get specific instructions not to talk. When the picketer might talk about the OT 3 levels, I can see how public or staff might worry that it will delay their so-called spiritual progress. I also understand that CoS members/staff are warned against "verbal tech" which is trying to explain Scientology. This was after members would mangle their explanations in the 1970's; now they just tell you to read a book. I imagine CoS has ordered their staff to not talk about their job pay or hours, for fear the picketers will tell them their contract is unenforceable, they can quit anytime, they don't have to find their own replacement, and they deserve at least minimum wage and overtime.

But still, some staff can chit-chat. Some can even argue with picketers. Why can't all of them?

When you were filming picketers, Tad, why were you so robotic, when you're usually so perky? What instructions were you given?

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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Sat Sep 03, 2011 12:58 am

Tad, I was relieved to NOT find your name on the list of Freewinds passengers. That boat is now publicly known to be infested with blue asbestos, crammed deep inside the walls, and with the constant shaking a boat gets, the deadly blue fibers can slip out. Asbestos can lead, years later, to the fatal disease Mesothelioma, so play it safe and keep yourself and your family away from this Fail Boat.

Article in the local paper, Freewinds Hides Info about Presence of Asbestos at http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=287791

List of passengers, including celebs, at
Celebrities on the Asbestos-contaminated Freewinds at viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27298

CoS can't claim ignorance - they were warned in 1987 by Lawrence Woodcraft that it even if they tried to remove the asbestos, the ship would still be unsafe. The ship needed to be destroyed years ago.
Declaration of Freewinds' architect, Lawrence Woodcraft http://www.lermanet.com/scientology/Law ... bestos.htm

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Re: Tad, the "outspet,oken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:29 am

Tad, maybe an emotional appeal of Scientology is the Buddhist connection - the past lives and Ron's vague statements about being Maitreya, the reincarnated Buddha.

Yet it might have been a popular writer who got the whole Scientology religion idea into Hubbard's head.
POSSIBLE TIMELINE FOR ELRON'S REINCARNATION SQUIRRELING

1. David-Neel writes popular books about Tibetan Mysticism:
http://home.snafu.de/tilman/j/origins6.html
START OF DAVID-NEEL QUOTE: David-Neel's first book, Magic and Mystery in Tibet, was published in the U.S. in 1932. This was followed by Initiations and Initiates in Tibet, first published in French in 1931, and Buddhism - its doctrines and methods, first published in English in 1939.
SUMMARY: Scientology holds much in common with popular books about Tibetan mysticism published in the 1930s by Alexandra David-Neel. The following ideas are held in common:
Escape from the "cycle of birth and death"
The definition of the spirit
"Exteriorization" or "astral travel"
Reincarnation
The "between-lives area" or "bardo"
"Implanting" in the bardo
That the individual is actually a "composite being"
Visualization techniques
Belief in telepathy
The use of techniques to bring about telepathic control of others
The use of the triangle as a symbol
The "process" of "clearing"
The capacity of the spirit to emit energy beams
The notion that reality is a halluciantion held in common
"Serenity" as the highest human state
The assertion that belief is self-created
That "being" is senior to "doing"
The distinction between "being" and "becoming"
Ideas about "absolute" and "relative" truth
The recollection of experiences in former lives
The notion of surrounding oneself with like-minded individuals
The significance of the interplay between the static and the kinetic
"Postulates" or "wishes"
That neither good nor evil exist
The "overt-motivator sequence" - a simplified version of the "karma-vipaka" concept of Buddhism.
IDEAS COMMON TO DAVID-NEEL AND HUBBARD:
As with Scientology, the Tibetans believe that they can escape the "wheel of rebirth", and the outcome of their previous actions (karma-vipaka, called the "overt-motivator sequence" in Scientology), by applying a set of techniques ("he may cause himself to be reborn in the most agreeable conditions possible" (66)). To quote from Hubbard "Not the least of the qualities of O.T. is personal and knowing immortality and freedom from the cycle of birth and death" (Auditor 19). The "cycle of birth and death" is a Buddhist concept, more usually expressed as the "cycle of death and rebirth" or the "wheel of suffering". END OF DAVID-NEEL QUOTE

2. Dianetics came out in 1950, featuring many of David-Neel's findings. Reincarnation, however, is not addressed. The book is dedicated to Will Durant. The Science of Survival, featuing reincarnation, is published in 1951.
http://www.innernet.net/joecisar/e520000.htm

3. Scientology needed dogma about what happens after death, and what is the meaning of life, but Elron couldn't quote David-Neel without being too obviously imitative.

4. 1951: Tax and financial problems meant L. Ron had to create a new organization and name, preferably with a religious framework.

5. Our Oriental Heritage was waiting on the bookshelf. In this easy-to-read, Westernized summary, Will Durant (remember L. Ron dedicated Dianetics to Durant) depicted Buddha as a brilliant insightful man with many worthy, impressive-sounding but elusive ideas, including reincarnation. It was written in 1939 and reprinted in 1954, becoming a best-seller and Book-of-the-Month as early as 1959 - see website http://www.samizdat.com/isyn/durant.html

8. Hubbard gobbled up the chapters on the Life of Buddha, did some auditing on himself to "test" whether he was an avatar of Buddha, and squirrelled Buddha's teachings about the soul detaching from a degraded reality.

9. 1952: L. Ron creates "Scientology" with e-meters, reincarnation, and (especially) control over auditing income.
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shel ... meline.htm
and
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/bfm/bfm12.htm page 202

10. L. Ron sets up Scientology as a religion in late 1952 and early 1953
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Library/Shelf/bfm/bfm12.htm page 220
Conveniently, he can point to Buddhism and reincarnation as one of the "religious" pieces of Scientology.

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SeeYaBye
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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by SeeYaBye » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:28 pm

Don Carlo, sorry to switch gears from your pseudo-conversation with Tad. Tad's website is one of a number that are pro-Scientology. It is obviously directed at true-believer Scientologists. How do Scientologists become aware of websites like his ( http://gettothechoppa.wordpress.com/ )? Or for another example, one like this: http://www.patheos.com/community/scientologybeliefs/ Do Scientologists receive emails with links to approved pro-Scientology websites? They are obviously not allowed to simply google "SCIENTOLOGY" as that will provide links to a myriad of negative websites. I left the cult 25+ years ago, before there was a world wide web. Anyone who has left more recently know how Scientologists navigate the minefield of negative websites to get to the few positive ones out there that are not the official http://www.scientology.org/ websites? Also, as everyone is on the web these days and uses google to find information, are Scientologists explicitly told not to seek information about Scientology on the web? Just wondering....
"The truth is the kindest thing we can give folks in the end." - Harriet Beecher Stowe

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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Sponge » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:02 pm

SeeYaBye wrote:Don Carlo, sorry to switch gears from your pseudo-conversation with Tad. Tad's website is one of a number that are pro-Scientology. It is obviously directed at true-believer Scientologists. How do Scientologists become aware of websites like his ( http://gettothechoppa.wordpress.com/ )? Or for another example, one like this: http://www.patheos.com/community/scientologybeliefs/ Do Scientologists receive emails with links to approved pro-Scientology websites? They are obviously not allowed to simply google "SCIENTOLOGY" as that will provide links to a myriad of negative websites. I left the cult 25+ years ago, before there was a world wide web. Anyone who has left more recently know how Scientologists navigate the minefield of negative websites to get to the few positive ones out there that are not the official http://www.scientology.org/ websites? Also, as everyone is on the web these days and uses google to find information, are Scientologists explicitly told not to seek information about Scientology on the web? Just wondering....
Scientologists do seem to have taken to social networking quite a bit. It would be very hard to stop them, especially the younger ones. I guess the cult doesn't mind it too much because Facebook has the tools to shut out anything/anyone undesirable and, by virtue of the network, be alerted to theta content (and instantly warn of eebil esspees and their entheta content/messages) . So, yeah, as well as old fashioned email, I'm sure they'll use messenger programs and facebook etc to pass theta links around amongst specific friends as well as broadcast. That all blurs with mobile devices as most of those thesedays have the ability to tie-in with your facebook/email/messenger services.

Don Carlo
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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by Don Carlo » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:27 pm

If anyone close to Tad wants me to stop, he just has to take down the two photos on his Scientologyparents blog using his infant to promote IAS.

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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by spacecootie » Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:36 am

Don Carlo, I agree with Sponge.

Your continued posts to Tad make about as much sense as an OT telepathically communicating with his body thetans.

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Re: Tad, the "outspoken" scientologist, from D.C.

Post by BenFranklinGirl » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:25 pm

Works at AARP, eh? He undoubtedly knows several people I know, although none of my friends have Tad as a friend on their Facebook accounts.



(I do not work at AARP)
“In no instance have . . . the churches been guardians of the liberties of the people.” - James Madison

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