The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't religion

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't religion

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 6:41 pm

The Golden Bough by Sir James Frazer is a classic college religion text, which is contemptuous of what I will call me-the-magician practices. The book is pre-Scientology and imperfect, but many of the me-the-magician practices he belittles are central to Scientology.
Frazer calls what primitives and Scientologists do "magic" but that word is ambiguous and has too many positive connotations. I use the phrase me-the-magician, to clarify that it's not the "magic" of a Las Vegas magic show, or a marvelously written book or movie, or a dazzling new high-tech product. It's the idea of a Scientologist calling up his or her OT abilities to make traffic lights change, or hurricanes change course, or sending thought beams to cause a pedestrian to back off from a near-collision. There is no appeal to God, or Hubbard; the Scientologist claims these so-called powers come from himself.
Frazer quotes:
magic is a spurious system...as well as a fallacious guide of conduct. It is a false science as well as an abortive art. (p. 11)
This magic
assumes that things act on each other at a distance through a secret sympathy (p. 12)
the doctrine of contagious magic...between a wounded man and the agent of the wound (p. 41)
(Compare to Scientologists trying to heal themselves by touching the object that hurt them)
amongst the aborigines of Australia...magic is universally practiced, whereas religion in the sense of a propitiation or conciliation of the higher powers seems to be nearly unknown. Roughly speaking, all men in Australian are magicians, but not one is a priest; everybody fancies he can influence his fellows or the course of nature by sympathetic magic, but nobody dreams of propitiating gods by prayer or sacrifice. (p. 55)
- exactly like Scientology's OT abilities!
Among the ignorant and superstitious classes of modern Europe, it is very much...what it is now among the lowest savages... The dispassionate observer...can hardly regard it otherwise than as a standing menace to civilization....the uniformity, the universality, and the permanence of a belief in magic, compared with the endless variety and the shifting character of religious creeds, raises a presumption that the former represents a ruder and earlier phase of the human mind, through which all the races of manking have passed or are passing on their way to religion and science (p 56)
...recognition of the inherent falsehood and barrenness of magic set the more thoughtful part of mankind to cast about for a truer theory of nature and a more fruitful method...He had been pulling a strings to which nothing was attached; he had only been treading in a narrow circle.(p 57)
How was it that intelligent men did not sooner detect the fallacy of magic?...in many cases the desired event did actually follow, at a longer or shorter interval, the performance of the rite which was designed to bring it about. (p. 59)
Frazer has a chapter on the magical control of the weather - an ability mentioned often in "wins" by Scientologists (p 60)

Scientology claims that belief in reincarnation (transmigration) makes it a religion right up there with Buddhism. Frazer disagrees:
Animism is not a Buddhist philosophy. It is simply a common savage dogma incorporated in the system of an historical religion. To suppose...that the theories of animism and transmigration...are derived from Buddhism, is to reverse the facts (p 112).
Frazer actually gives Scientology a little boost up the philosophical ladder for its theory of body-thetans-wandering-about-and-settling-into-people:
When a tree comes to be viewed, no longer as the body of the tree-spirit, but simply as its abode which it can quit at pleasure, an important advance has been made in religious thought. Animism is passing into polytheism. (p 117)

Frazer describes many colorful rituals that "rude" people use to harm enemies, prevent misfortune and bring good fortune. Hubbard was from a Protestant culture, which is proud of leaving behind the superstitions and foolish rituals of the past. His influences, like Freud, Einstein, and sci-fi, scorned "superstition." No voodoo dolls, no wavings antlers to ensure a good hunt, no abracadabra, no bubbling cauldron with eye of newt.

Still, Hubbard wanted to harm his enemies and get away with it. Old-fashioned fumbling with hair, nail clippings, feathers, dolls, rabbits' feet, charms and candles would look ridiculous. He stripped the magic down to "kill with a thought" involving staring. The technique is an ancient one, "The Evil Eye." Hubbard might have picked up this idea from a bookstore:
In 1946, the American magician Henri Gamache published a text called Terrors of the Evil Eye Exposed!*
No matter what the source, "kill-with-a-thought" is a me-the-magician technique. Critics claimed with amusement that CoS lawyer Helena Kobrin gave the "Scientology Death Stare" at a 1995 hearing.**

While Scientologists have no reverence for hair clippings and feathers, they do have reverence for the e-meter, which they believe allows the auditor to read their mind. The e-meter ritual puts the student in a passive, fantasy-and-memory-seeking reverie, a me-me-me state where the person is guided to believe they can influence nature and other people if they can just get rid of their overts, withholds, misunderstood words, and people (non-Scientologists, usually) who are "potential trouble sources." This is the training to be me-the-magician, and starts early in the training, long before the OT levels. The students are not guided to pray to God or Hubbard to turn their wishful thinking into reality - they are taught to "demonstrate the abilities" themselves, as me-the-magician.

By clinging to an us-versus-them attitude, CoS acts like a primitive tribe. While they speak of tolerating other religions, as the students are more deeply entrenched, they must give up the other religions, and avoid television and newspapers. This embraces ignorance in the name of "keeping Scientology working."

Scientologists imitate Hubbard, in what Frazer would call "sympathetic magic." They avoid perfumed soaps, homosexuality, and psychiatrists, "degraded beings," and "suppressive people"; they like or pretend to like swing music. In Sea Org leadership, they swear, bluster and grasp for money like Hubbard. Everywhere in Scientology, they use his magic phrases like "wins," "beingness," "cause over life," or "increased ability."

Scientology does have a hierarchy where the more courses you have taken, the more people "under" you look up to you as brimming with OT abilities (supposed magic powers). Yet, if students complain after an expensive course that they still can't read minds or levitate ashtrays, CoS informs them that it is the students' fault, and that the students need more courses to remove barriers to true OT abilities. The best CoS can offer is euphoria during auditing, and screwing with the student's sense of reality to simulate inside the head the sensation of an out-of-body experience. Neither of these permanently improve the student's life or abilities; it just strengthens the me-me-me focus. Since CoS can take away the levels if the student rebels, the student is perpetually powerless to even "keep" the so-called gains. The student has also confessed to sins during auditing, so is a sheepish pawn worried about CoS blabbing their sins, rather than a near-omnipotent being. Frazer doesn't talk about euphoria and out of body experiences, but much is written about native American and other tribal experiences that also produce these two results. So, CoS has no pipeline to anything paranormal, here.

My Scientology relative claimed to heal by touch. However, ill people often get a placebo effect or a mood lift from a caring person's touch; this is not a paranormal power. Pain and many ailments like arthritis come and go mysteriously and are greatly affected by emotions. Scientists study the placebo effect with interest, hoping to better reduce pain and symptoms.

Body thetans, as troublesome spirits that need to be removed from the body, are an old "evil-spirits" superstition.
When a Cingalese is dangerously ill..a devil-dancer is called in, who by making offerings to the devils, and dancing in the masks appropriate to them, conjures these demons of disease, one after the other, out of the sick man's body...(page 542)
Scientology has different incantations/spells (oops OT levels) for regular body thetans, drugged body thetans, and sleeping body thetans.

Above page numbers are from the paperback published 1993 by Wordsworth.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_eye
**http://www.whyaretheydead.info/UK/HELENA/HO_STARE.HTM
Last edited by Don Carlo on Tue Aug 30, 2011 4:44 pm, edited 9 times in total.

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:57 pm

Aleister Crowley was influenced by The Golden Bough, and may have brought some of its me-the-magician energy to Hubbard:
The relationship between ritual, myth, and drama was not a new topic in the Victorian England of Crowley’s adolescence... The most significant work of this time is J. G. Frazer’s The Golden Bough, which... grew to twelve (volumes) in its third edition (1911-5). Frazer’s work on magic, myth, and ritual is a watershed in the study of mythology and society, filled with countless examples of ritual actions, taboos, and cultural practices from around the world. He specifically articulated the importance of seasonal and vegetative cycles, which diverse cultures had “celebrated with dramatic rites” since the origins of society.2 Frazer is well aware of the sympathy that myth and magic have with drama, for he continues, “But if the celebration was in form dramatic, it was in substance [and desired effect] magical.”3 The Golden Bough brought to the fore such prominent mythological concepts as the “Dying God” (used by Eliot in The Waste Land).. Crowley certainly knew Frazer’s work intimately: not only does he quote Frazer in the opening of Magick part III and persistently use the dying-god myth... Crowley also wrote a collection of short stories based on The Golden Bough entitled Golden Twigs (several... published in 1917-8)
http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeV/ArtofLaw.htm

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't religion

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:09 pm

Read The Golden Bough for free at http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/f/frazer/james/golden/ and elsewhere.

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:25 pm

More about why CoS isn't religion: It's that me-the-magician is the bridge and the goal for Scientology. Even in the Dianetics-getting-rid-of-evil-spirits-oops-engrams stage it's all about communication skills for ME, self-improvement for ME, and near-magical powers of memory and IQ for ME. There's no Saint status in Scientology - no felonious Mary Sue on a pedestal. No deity is named. Scientologists talk about the immortal soul if pressed, but what they are talking about is the me-me-me immortal soul, not some Buddhist universal soul. Hubbard has halo-ish paintings that are hip-hip-horrayed at, but I've never heard anyone pray to him for help. Frazer has a special respect for the humility of what he considers real religion - that is, accepting a higher being and honoring and begging him for help. Frazer would consider the "thetan" dogma in Scientology to be polytheistic (see 1st post above) but again Scientologists don't appeal to thetans for favors or to avert disaster. They regard "the thetan" as an inner spirit to control and rule, and regard body thetans as unwelcome evil spirits to be eliminated. This is quite primitive thinking. The Golden Bough is packed with juicy primitive rituals, from which Frazer shows the parallels from the most remote tribe to 1900's-era superstitious Europeans. He demonstrates that these primitive magic rituals are so widespread, similar, and arising independently, that they show a glimpse into the self-absorbed and ignorant mind that people fall into unless exposed to science and higher ideals.
Last edited by Don Carlo on Fri Sep 02, 2011 12:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:42 pm

Harry Potter is a me-the-magician situation, where there is no deity worship. Every wizard or witch attacks and defends against others and manipulates reality, using their wand, their magic animals/birds, their broom, their herbs, their potions, magic devices and secret portals. While enjoyable, it is not as highly evolved as the me-the-magician situation of Lord of the Rings (also with no worship, though wizards and Elf kings and queens are venerated for their extra-powerful magic). While Harry Potter and LOTR both show that magic can be used for evil, LOTR shows that even a good person becomes corrupted by The Ring, and, it is implied, by any me-the-magician magic. Harry Potter showed wizards joining a kind of cult of Voldemort hoping for power, although Voldemort abused and terrified them; they are allowed to deceive and murder as long as they are loyal to Voldemort. LOTR's counterpart is Saruman (the Christopher Lee bad wizard), a cult leader over his personal army of debased orcs and monsters, allowing murder and even cannibalism so long as they are loyal to Saruman. The theme of crime-is-ok-as-long-as-you're-loyal-and-successful, applies to many high demand groups and cults. Harry Potter held a little of Voldemort's evil spirit from Voldemort's attack that made the lightning scar, but you knew all along Harry would never go bad, and like any primitive pagan, he got Voldemort's evil spirit exorcized from his body. Both book series had death-and-resurrection scenes (Gandalf, and Harry Potter himself) like those in The Golden Bough, too. CoS has its own death-and-resurrection tale with claims Hubbard will reincarnate and again rule CoS.

So, me-the-magician makes for fun story-telling. Pretending to make magic happen "with your mind" however, is a waste of time. Get out and physically improve the world, and discover new science and medicine.
Last edited by Don Carlo on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:10 pm

People raised in Scientology have no idea how shockingly stupid the idea of "body thetans" appears to non-superstitious people. While a subset of Catholics and Protestants believe mental illness and afflictions like epilepsy are caused by "demons" and "the devil," and horror movies exploit this plot line, it's so very, very primitive. It has caused much abuse of the mentally ill and disabled. Attempted exorcisms are alarming, stressful, and sometimes fatal to the patient, and DON'T WORK unless the patient is insightful enough to fake sanity, just to get away from the exorcist. Or the patient's will is broken so they are passive and fearful. Scientology's Introspection Rundown is an appalling confinement, drugging, and "silent treatment," rather than jumping about shouting "Get thee hence Satan! Still, it's an inhumane pseudo-medicine, and, for Lisa McPherson, was fatal.
Last edited by Don Carlo on Tue Aug 30, 2011 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lambear
Posts: 69
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:08 pm

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by lambear » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:38 pm

I really like this analysis. Like so many others, it puts the cult into perspective and cleanses those reading it of any lingering doubts about being wrong in leaving. Keep it up!

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:49 pm

Scientologists may sputter that Scientology names a Supreme Being as its 8th Dynamic.* But I have never heard Scientologists say or do anything about this 8th Dynamic. As long as a Scientologist only uses his/her own abilities, and never prays humbly to a power higher than self, it's not religion, according to the renowned scholar James Frazer. I never was a Scientologist, so they may call ME ignorant of its complex practices, but when it gets past the admittedly secular communications courses, it becomes hugely 1st Dynamic (self-centered), 3rd Dynamic (Church-of-Scientology-centered) and 7th Dynamic (self-centered on one's individual soul). A brief summary of the Dynamics, boldfacing the 1st, 3rd and 7th which are central to Scientology:*

1st DYNAMIC - Me-me-me (my-hurt-feelings-from-childhood-and-my-fascinating-prior-lives-and-my-immortal-soul and-my-body-thetans-and-my-gains-and-wins-and- MY-INEVITABLE-OT-ABILITIES-SO-I-WILL-BE-HOMO-NOVIS-ABOVE-ORDINARY-PEOPLE).
2nd DYNAMIC is Sex and Family - which CoS tries to tame and handle since a lover or family member can leave Scientology. CoS readily rips up marriages and families to protect itself.
3rd DYNAMIC - the Group, mostly the Church of Scientology Internation, Inc and its affiliates. The phrase "My Church" is spoken by Scientologists with reverence as a holy entity similar to how the Catholic Church regards itself.
4th DYNAMIC - Humanity. Scientologists do humanitarian things like fight drugs, promote human rights, etc. and claim to deflect hurricanes (ignoring the plight of those in the hurricane's new path). But good deeds don't = religion; plenty of atheists help humanity, too.
5th DYNAMIC: The Planet - Again, plenty of atheists fight for the environment. This is not religion.
6th DYNAMIC: Survival of Matter Energy Space Time (M.E.S.T.). This is absurd. The Law of Conservation of Matter makes sure the universe still exists; Scientologists don't do rituals that keep matter and time intact. M.E.S.T. is an outdated concept.**
7th DYNAMIC: I'm calling this the individual soul. This is the focus of me-the-magician magic and the belief in reincarnation - a big part of Scientology.

The definition of "Theta" which is the most "spiritual" word in Scientology, is quite clear that it is an individual soul or spirit, The 7th Dynamic, The Theta soul doesn't merge with other Theta souls, whereas, in the movie Avatar, the worshippers together beseech the Tree of Souls as a repository of their ancestor's souls and a source of healing power. In Star Wars, Skywalker had to learn humility from Yoda to fully tap into the Source. Buddhism has the Universal Soul that individual soul merge into. There is no comparable flow of power or obliteration of self that Scientologists are welcoming from the universe. The "OT abilities" are supposed to come from inside their petty isolated soul-with-a-little "s", and of course they (and Scientology) take the credit for turning the traffic light green; no Supreme Being is ever acknowledged in the "gains" and "wins." No Scientologist ever says, "Praise to the Supreme Being that helped me stay quiet during childbirth." They will instead praise their me-the-magician training.

8th DYNAMIC:
The eighth dynamic is the urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being. This can be called the infinity or God dynamic.*
Hubbard took this phrase from the Masons when he decided to turn his self-improvement biz into a religion. The Masons cleverly allowed in new members who acknowledged a Supreme Being, a vague deity that any religion could acknowledge. CoS is even more vauge calling the 8th Dynamic "An urge toward infinity." There is no mention of humility toward a Supreme Being or It/Him/Her as a source of help and blessing, it appears an individual soul can, within Scientology, become infinite and Supreme-Deity-like.

CoS minimizes the Supreme Being dogma, except when they are angling for a government to give them privileges of a religion. A Supreme Being is awkward, in that it will repel potential recruits who are Atheists, or religious people who think it equalizes religions whereas their religion is the best. For some seekers, acknowledging a Supreme Being may be a plus; they dream of one-ness with It/Him/Her. However, Scientology will never give those seekers the bliss of becoming One with the Universe. It only teaches them to worship their own self, their own Church of Scientology, and their own soul. The euphoria they get from auditing, is not Buddist Enlightenment and is sadly temporary. I maintain that the 8th Dynamic is lip service, window-dressing, and marketing.

* http://www.scientologyhandbook.org/SH2_2.HTM
** Please see Physicists never talk about M.E.S.T. anymore viewtopic.php?f=11&t=11589&

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:19 pm

"I was shocked and dissapointed at how stupid the list was and how stupid they must have thought people were, and how stupid whoever wrote the list was!
" claimed Martin Hunt, about a Sec Check (a loyalty and ethics test) on the 8th Dynamic. There were different tests for non-scientologists and scientologists:
Some questions from the non-scn one (from memory):
• have you ever polluted a holy place?
• have you ever polluted a sacred object?
• have you neglected to save a sinner?
• have you ever perverted a religion?
• have you thought evil thoughts?
• have you ever concealed, or denied your religion?
The eighth dynamic for scientologists is much more sane like: • have you ever convinced others that some things are unknowable?
• have you ever convinced another that there were effects he couldn't create?
• have you ever convinced another that some things cannot be communicated?
from http://www.ezlink.com/~perry/CoS/Theology/8dsec.htm

My comment: I agree with Martin, who had religious experience from a prior religion, that the questions are stupid and ignorant. It's the same old shaming and making the student small and wrong. CoS is offering no universal wisdom here, just playing gotcha.

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:56 pm

CoS teaches no ecstatic or beseeching worship of The Supreme Being. CoS uses The Supreme Being for a few hoops to jump through, a kind of imagination-exercise. It uses the phrase Supreme Being and as a synonym the phrase 8th Dynamic, (I highlighted both in red) in the OT VIII training. As a side affect, the training causes the student to regard matter as not solid, and a being can be independent of time. Yet no OT VIII has demonstrated walking through walls or time-travel. It's true, matter is not solid at a molecular level, and time is mysterious. But for those with a shaky grasp on reality, this training could cause them to not trust their senses, and become even more vulnerable to CoS demands for money, labor, and disconnection from relatives.
OT VIII STUDY AND PROCEDURE, TOP SECRET DEBRIEF, 1991
From recall this is a record of the full OT VIII procedure of the Church of Scientology given on the Free Winds ship as delivered in 1991…
The whole secret involves what truly is the relationship of the Supreme Being to each individual thetan. To simply say it's `me" is oversimplified to tears but has some truth to it. The real key is the perception and ability to have full certainty and, therefore, perception on all confusions and distortions of MEST (matter, energy, space, and time) and form and life units as well as the ability to perceive exact identity and its full relationship to its true source and history from its origin as the theta body, the true 8th Dynamic In order to truly view this as a present time beingness one has to Clean up, once and for all, his own confusions regarding these points...
In doing this procedure one has to acknowledge the lie of time and persistence and the lie of the illusion that MEST is solid and unchangeable. Another key given is the fact that a being can exist independent of time and present time and can chose any point on the track as his present time. The PT (present time) body can confuse this, as attention to some degree is always hung up on the PT body. This fixes the thetan into one present time and one time stream, when in fact there are many as you will discover.
...
[A] Spot a person or object in this L/T [lifetime] or on the backtrack you have identified as or who represented the 8th Dynamic to you

[H] Spot another 8th Dynamic creation as independent from yourself.
Spot where it is.
...
Redo A to L above until, the TA floats or a true unkillable persistent F/N appears and you have had a revelation regarding truth or 8th Dynamic creation. This is the end of OT VIII...

1.) The OT 8 "Confidential Student Briefing" document of this story has been verified in the early 1980's through an Episcopal minister in Baltimore with recent high ranking Scientology defectors. The defectors verifying this confidential document did have the requisite security clearances and initiate\staff positions in Scientology to have had access to this document.
from http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/satanism/ot8.html

My comment : OTVIII appears to promise
full certainty and, therefore, perception on all confusions and distortions of MEST
I cannot see how this trivial imagination-exercise about spotting a person here and spotting a creation there can do any such thing. I offer as contrast this humble and sublime song, I Know That My Redeemer Liveth from Handel's Messiah, with the line: Yet in my flesh I shall see God." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFU9nsG7Oww
No claims of becoming a universal know-it-all, just a hope of standing before God.
Last edited by Don Carlo on Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:47 pm, edited 9 times in total.

User avatar
Phobos
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:21 pm

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Phobos » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:59 pm

A most interesting series of posts. Thank you Don Carlo.

User avatar
Demented LRH
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 pm
Location: New York City, NY, USA

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Demented LRH » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:59 pm

I have a nagging suspicion that Hubbard reserved the 8-th dynamic for himself. Move over, God Jehovah, God Hubbard is coming! After all, he said that a thetan can do anything, including creation of a universe.
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:28 pm

Compare primitive me-the magician tribes, in red, to Scientology in blue.
Determination to cast out demons vs. CoS's determination to cast out engrams and (after OT 3) body thetans
Exploitation-by-magicians for donations with threats of bad luck vs. CoS pressuring for courses with threats that you are in danger.
Hundreds of petty taboos
vs. CoS's hundreds of petty laws.
Fears against trivial objects like a certain food, vs. CoS's fears against perfumed soap
People locked in their hut for bad luck hunting food, vs. Sea Org workers locked up for bad luck hunting new members and donors.
Fear and contempt toward outside tribes
, vs. CoS's fear and contempt toward what they call the "wog" world.
Endless rituals to strengthen one's me-the-magician's abilities
, vs. endless auditing to strengthen Scientologists' OT abilities.
Witch-doctor curses if you criticize or abandon him
, vs. CoS telling you you'll kill yourself if you quit CoS.

User avatar
Demented LRH
Posts: 2499
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:02 pm
Location: New York City, NY, USA

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Demented LRH » Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:58 pm

"Fears against trivial objects like a certain food, vs. CoS's fears against perfumed soap"

My ex-Scientologist friend said about non-perfumed soap, "I was a true Scientologist, I was washing my ass with Ivory"
“This OT shit is driving me insane. On a positive side, I laugh a lot these days because I’m at a funny farm.”
L. Ron Hubbard

L. Ron Hubbard era un maestro de masturbacion fisica y mental.

Don Carlo
Posts: 12112
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 6:20 am

Re: The Golden Bough: Me-the-Magician practices aren't relig

Post by Don Carlo » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:33 pm

CoS 8th Dynamic is
“Urge toward existence as infinity. This is also identified as the Supreme Being. This can be called the infinity or God dynamic.”
Since the second two sentences are only alternate names, they can be disregarded. Let’s take the first sentence word by word, in red, and define each word in blue*
Urge toward existence as infinity
1. Urge: strong desire
2. Toward: in the direction or vicinity of
3. Existence: To have actual being; be real.
4. As: in the role of; being
5. Infinity: endless time, space, or quantity

*All definitions, in blue above, from http://www.thefreedictionary.com/
Discussion and combined definition:
“Things” like planets, clouds or hills can’t have strong desire; only a person or group of people can have “urges.” Thus the first word "Urge" is about one or more people. This really means one person, since Scientologists don’t do auditing as a team. Sometimes two people audit each other, but the progress attaches to each of the two students. The certificate of completion is awarded to only one person at a time, even if the person was part of a large classroom. The second word "Toward" explains what the “Urge” is about, so it again relates to one person. "Existence" means being in the real world, not an alternate or spiritual plane. "As" has many definitions since it is used in many ways, but the only definition that makes sense in this sentence is “in the role of; being.” "Infinity" is mostly thought of as “endless space” rather than endless time or endless quantity, so let’s use “endless space.”
Now, let’s rewrite that first sentence: Urge toward existence as infinity using each word’s definitions.

8th Dynamic Rewrite: A person’s strong desire to be, in the real universe, endless space.

Proof of the rewrite, showing that it uses each of the original words' definitions:
strong desire = Urge
to = Toward
be = As
in the real universe = Existence
endless space = Infinity

Is this the foundation of the Scientology religion? It's not very spiritual, or humanitarian, or even practical.

It's not spiritual - there is no God to merge with, no promised bliss, no astounding insight - you just get to be really really large. OR, rather... you have the urge to get really large.

It's not humanitarian - there's no waving your infinitely large wand and helping humanity - in fact, how do dolphins, giraffes and people fit into the space that has become Infinitely You?

It's not practical – how can a Scientologist dentist be endless space/time, while his Scientologist chiropractor is also endless space/time? Or is it endless power? Does this depend upon the dentist Scientologist creating and ruling an Alternate Universe “A” that the Scientologist chiropractor merely lives in? Then is there an Alternate Universe “B” where the chiropractor = infinity, and the dentist is just an inhabitant? What if the dentist doesn’t LIKE being stuck in any alternative universe where he’s just an underling? Some Scientologists dislike each other; it’s only human to resent your ex-spouse’s second husband - does your alternative universe misbehave and interfere with that second husband’s alternate universe?
Suppose you have loved ones and have become infinite. How do you visit your children or parents?

This 8th Dynamic looks like Me-the-Magician practices, again - it is a single person performing rituals / exercises / levels - intended to make that person more powerful. No beseeching or adoring an entity superior to oneself. Even the Supreme Being mentioned in the second sentence is not an outside entity, it is a role has "the urge toward" - the person wants to BE the Supreme Being, not worship It/Him/Her.

Perhaps the CoS religion-defender will say, This is all speculative…Nobody knows the infinite. It…transcends the details of ordinary existence and the limitations of the ordinary mind. My response is… if Hubbard had all the answers, why didn’t he explain this? Could the five words “Urge toward existence as infinity” be just a phrase concocted to look like religion?

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests