"Critics" who do not like me and this site

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"Critics" who do not like me and this site

Post by admin » Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:07 am

Below is a post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology from an anonymous "critic" called Ralph Dorian and under that my reply to him. Maybe anybody here who don't have access to news would like to know what type of critisism and accusation this site and I get. For you to make up your own minds if I'm OSA or not.

The story with Dorian is long and I hope to one day make a page explaining it. To make it short: Dorian came out of nowhere a while back and presented himself as one who knew the real story behind CoS, that it was created by someone and Hubbard was just some sort of puppet who got the credit in public. Anyway, few took him serious after a while. He has lately been active on ARS accusing a lot of long time critics of being OSA spawns or agents (see his list of names below that he includes in most of his posts to ARS). When I started asking him questions he didn't like he of course also "outed" me as OSA. We tried to communicate and this is his post today (posted below by me):
Andreas @ www.xenu.net
[b]- Life is not a test.[/b]

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:10 am

Date: 6 Apr 2001 20:17:33 -0000
Message-ID: <20010406201733.22140.qmail@nym.alias.net>
From: Centurion <Use-Author-Address-Header@[127.1]>
Author-Address: centurion <AT> nym <DOT> alias <DOT> net
Subject: Xenu.net: OSA-sponsored, OSA-created, OSA-run
Newsgroups: alt.religion.scientology
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net
Organization: mail2news@nym.alias.net

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Due to recent interactions with the individual behind "Andreas
Heldal-Lund" , some corrections appear to be in order.

Two known OSA operatives ( and
first brought "Andreas" to my attention by recommending a web visit
through the URL www.xenu.net. Naturally, their recommendation
immediately cast a shadow of suspicion on the purpose of www.xenu.net
as well as the actual intent of the site's alleged creator. To test
the reaction, I added to my OSA list and subsequently
wrote a warning that non-anonymously connecting with www.xenu.net
might preclude an easy escape from Scientology. "Andreas" protested,
and from here began our interactions.

Due to his polite facade and large following, I decided to give
"Andreas" the benefit of my doubts. I wanted to rule out some
possibilities. I thought it possible that OSA could have infected his
server with a program that drew information on xenu.net visitors
without his being aware of it. I also considered the possibility
"Andreas" was taking LRH/OSA commands unconsciously, not fully
realizing the aid and comfort he was providing for Scientology. Now,
however, the doubts are gone and it's clear that "Andreas" is not only
a knowing player but a very important player in OSA's takeover and
occupation of ARS.

"Andreas" reminds me of the sanctimonious priest who preaches the need
for moral uprightness then is discovered to be a practicing pederast.
While he talks in one direction, a little choir boy comes forward and
points in another. Enough little choir boys come forward and it starts
to build a case. At this point the case against "Andreas" is rock
solid. :)

This is the first of a series of messages on the case against
"Andreas" and www.xenu.net.

Let's start with the easy stuff.

One signature characteristic of an "Operating OSA'er" is that it's
next to impossible to arouse their suspicions regarding their fellow
operatives. If a fellow operative gets emotional and reveals his or
her Scientology affiliations, an operative will cast them a blind eye,
or try to excuse them.

Consider the following message:

In Message-ID:
Subject: Rick Sherwood and the Cult of Victimology
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:02:22 -0500
Organization: OSA: The Most sordidly Hypocritical Group on Usenet
David "ptsc" Lebeau wrote:

>Rick Sherwood is a pathetic whiner, whining about Nazis,
>whining about being a Jew in Nazi Germany. Well, L. Ron
>Hubbard spit on that kind of pathetic whining. A Scientologist
>is supposed to be powerful and AT CAUSE. A VICTIM, like
>Sherwood claims to be, is at-effect of others, and is pulling it in.
>
>A VICTIM isn't even trying, and is no better than a wog. L.
>Ron Hubbard, in Introduction to Scientology "Ethics" was
>contemptuous of the Jews, and this is what he said: "I found
>out that only those who sought only peace were ever butchered.
>The thousands of years of Jewish passivity earned them nothing
>but slaughter."
>
>L. Ron Hubbard would have viewed such pathetic whining
>as victim-speak. Rick Sherwood, report to Ethics. You are a
>pathetic, at-effect weakling and L. Ron Hubbard spits on you
>and your claims to victimhood.
>
>ptsc

What more need be said?? The above piece is so obviously coming from a
Scientologist, _even someone barely familiar_ with Scientology could
correctly categorize "ptsc".

What about "Andreas"? What did Andreas do?

If "Andreas" were what he claims to be: an innocent "wog" fighting the
CofS, fully duped into believing "ptsc" was on his side --- he'd show
some signs of disillusionment upon reading the above message. It would
at least arouse his suspicions! But it didn't. "Andreas" showed
absolutely NONE of the affect one would expect were he what he claims
to be. I paste the above message in one of my replies to "Andreas",
and he simply *cut it out* in his next reply. Then . . . well, just
see for yourself:

In Message-ID:
Subject: Re: Why OSA controls most ARS "wogs" as easily as it controls
Scientologists...
Organization: Operation Clambake
Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 22:39:52 GMT
Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net wrote:

>On 30 Mar 2001 20:56:50 -0000, Jimsonweed
> wrote:
>
>>Watch as he struggles --- sometimes painfully --- to
>>maintain his unconsciousness with regard to OSA
>>sources of control . . .
>
>This is about where I lost you, Dorian.
>
>Or maybe found you?
>
>I see a lot of new people coming to www.xenu.net getting
>informed about the cult but have yet to seen any positive
>result of your activities.

In other words, for making a fully justified accusation, **I'm** the
one that's suspicious.

>
>What I do see is a game where you try to give the impression
>that most critics are either agents or pawns for OSA.

I try to ignite suspicions about OSA on ARS. He tries to dampen them.

>
>In your reality there are more working for OSA than actual
>effective critics. If OSA's laughing at anything here it is all the
>distraction the Dorian story has created since it appeared
>here the first time.

Again.

>
>If you can't attract the attention and support of the masses
>you are no threat against OSA or CoS. And you lack that
>ability.

And again.

>
>Sorry. I bet OSA is anything but shaking in their
>pants because of you.
>

Do you see how he tries to make nothing of a perfectly reasonable
conclusion? . . . then how he puts a "reverse vector" on it and
points it at me?

Clearly, "Andreas" is NOT what he claims to be. His is the behavior of
a knowing OSA operative. Though there's much, much more, the above
alone may be enough to convict him.

So much for giving a suspected OSA'er the benefit of the doubt!
"Andreas Heldal-Lund" is a fraud and a liar, not to mention an OSA
Scienchiatrist.

I think a revised quote from Known OSA operative "ptsc" (originally
vectored at me) best describes my feelings on the matter:

> . . . What a fucking maniac. Not even a thousand
>electroshock sessions and a double lobotomy could
>bring this moron back to sanity. Now "Andreas" the
>completely insane piece of shit is accusing me of
>not only being OSA, but being ineffective too.
>
>Just to rule out the possibility of "Andreas" being an
>unknowing OSA pawn, I treated him fairly, as if he
>were as good as his word. But the sociopathic liar
>betrayed himself as anyone with a grain of sense can
>verify.
>
>Fuck this crazy lunatic and fuck him good. When he
>is outed, I don't think they should even bother dragging
>him to a goddamn mental institution. They should
>just rip him out of bed, drag him into the front yard,
>hook up the terminals from an 18-wheeler truck battery
>to his temples and blast him into next Friday right there
>and then, and keep him in a strait-jacket zonked out of
>his gourd with Haldol for the rest of his life, for the
>good of humanity.
>

: -))))))))))))))

I couldn't have put it any better myself.


Dorian


Look for more on the OSA fraud "Andreas Heldal-Lund" in the coming
days . . .

;-)
==============================


==============================
It's important to know who your real friends are.


Loud and furious enemies tell you you're winning. But howling friends
are telling you to change tactics.

Should you take an enemy as a friend, your signals will be reversed.

The result is that you'll soon be doing less of what works and more of
what doesn't . . . *which* --- not coincidentally --- is exactly what
OSA wants from its enemies. LESS of what it takes to defeat
Scientology and MORE of what doesn't work.
[SPLIT HERE BECAUSE OF MAXIMUM LENGTH ON THIS BOARD]

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:11 am

[CONTINUED]

Using effects to differentiate, there are four basic categories of
Scientology criticism on ARS, and hence four kinds of Scientology
"critic" here as well.

The "critics" of the type 1 variety complain. They whine and grouse
about Scientologists being too much this or too little that. Something
doesn't quite suit them. Never good enough, Scientology always fails
to make the grade. Scientologists call what type 1's do "nattering".
Type 1's like to natter. Type 1's also like to break rules. Their
justification is, "if Scientology isn't exactly the way it should be,
why bother following? Let's break some rules. Let's talk about things
we're not supposed to. Let's do things we've been told we shouldn't.
Since we're disappointed with "freedom" Scientology style, let's show
them how to be free."

The thing about type 1 critics is that they tend to set an example
that motivates other Scientologists not to emulate them. Everything
they do is explained in terms of Scientology. Their tone level ranges
from about 2.0 down to about 1.1, which means they're predictable. Why
are they nattering? They have "overts". Why are they dissatisfied with
Scientology? They didn't follow standard tech. Why didn't they follow
standard tech? They ran past misunderstood words. Why do they want to
break the rules? Because they've "pulled in motivators". Why are they
blaming LRH and Scientology? They haven't "come up" enough in
awareness or responsibility. In short, the effect of type 1 critics
have on the motivation of Scientologists varies from nil to a strong
positive. Type 1 critics make Scientologists WANT to apply standard
tech so as to avoid becoming type 1 themselves. Their net influence is
to push Scientologists back into Scientology.


A type 2 critic has finally accepted the flaws of Scientology as
inveterate and decided to do something about them. They differ from
ordinary Scientologists in that what they've decided to do doesn't
necessarily involve a more "exact" application of "standard"
Scientology. Type 2 critics have decided to stop nattering for lack of
results, reject the simple Scientology-scripted answer, and find a
better answer somewhere else. Type 2's recognize the LRH standard as
too often a failure no matter how willing and obedient the
Scientologist. Since Scientology is sold as a complete answer to
problems, this answer is sacrilegious. Among Scientologists, type 2's
are known as "dilettantes", "squirrels", or "degraded beings".

As to their effect, type 2's make Scientologists wonder about a better
answer. Type 2's produce hopes that rival those produced by
Scientology. They make regulars think, "Maybe if we just stopped
blaming ourselves for not adhering to someone's idea of a 'standard'
we might find something better." And though type 2's are negatively
categorized in Scientology storytelling, they can't entirely be
explained away. Scientologists crave success. If Scientologists see a
"squirrel" producing the kind of results they want to have, to hell
with the label, they say, let's follow whatever works. After all,
isn't _that_ what the "standard" was supposed to be? . . . whatever
works? The net result is that type 2's pull Scientologists in the
"wrong" direction. Not towards Scientology but away from it.


An outspoken type 3 critic status is only occasionally achieved by
Scientologists but when it is, Scientology no longer appears the kind
of solution Scientologists were hoping for. Instead, type 3's see
everything in reverse. Scientologists revere "Ron" as mankind's
greatest friend; type 3's despise him. Scientologists believe
Scientology is leading them to "freedom". Type 3's see Hubbard as a
real-life Pied Piper. Scientologists hope for permanent "gains". Type
3's know their hopes are in vain. And for good reasons. All their
opinions are justified.

Type 3's resemble type 1's except that their criticism can't be so
easily explained away. Scientologists don't like type 3's to the
degree they're unable to find a pat answer to explain them. The lack
of explanation is both disconcerting and repellent. While type 1's fit
a stereotype that commands the Scientologist to ignore them, type 3's
don't. Type 3's are the square peg being shoved in the round hole.
They're not being and doing what they're supposed to. Type 3's make
Scientologists angry. But the anger detracts from their satisfaction
with Scientology, thus making "handling" type 3's feel like a "waste
of time". Their net influence is neither push nor pull, but noxious.


Type 4 critic status --- as far as I know --- is never achieved by
anyone who's been in Scientology. Type 4's, typically, are students of
psychology who've wisely learned their lessons well. Type 4's know
Scientology is not what it professes to be. The story they tell of
what it actually is has a peculiar fascination among Scientologists.
Type 4's are well aware Scientology is just another package for the
tricks of psychology, concealed under layers of storytelling. They
accept it as not necessarily good nor bad, just the latest means of
occupying the attentions of the mentally ill.

Type 4 critics are like type 3's in that they make Scientology seem
- - --- to current adherents --- more like the problem than a solution.
But because they attract as well as repel, they go much deeper in
their effects. Type 4's make Scientologists feel interested and sick
at the same time. They send a cold chill down their spines that sits
in their gut and gnaws. Type 4's make them seriously doubt the
"validity" of what they're doing. Type 4's are an enervating
influence. A type 4 could speak to a roomful of Scientologists and in
short order they'd all be feeling they'd made a terrible mistake. Type
4's sap the will of Scientologists to continue applying their
solution. Scientology's the problem, it seems, not the solution, and
certainly not a problem to be "handled" with more Scientology.
Instead, just a problem to be disposed of at once and finally
forgotten.

It may be interesting to note that L. Ron Hubbard was a type 4 playing
"reverse vector". Type 4's are just playing a game and, perhaps
ironically, they can play it either way. Their net influence can
either push in or pull out.


OSA is just playing a game too. OSA operatives could easily become
type 4's if they came to be more consciously aware of what they're
doing. But since that awareness would make them quite sick, instead
they play type 1's.

"OSA'ers" play type 1's with the intention of making type 2's, 3's and
4's accept them as "friends". Once accepted --- OSA'ers hope --- type
2's, 3's and 4's can be "bull-baited" into looking like type 1's.

Type 1's tend to PUSH Scientologists back into Scientology.

As expected, OSA's goal is always LESS of what works against
Scientology, and MORE of what doesn't.


===
The following pseudonyms and e-addresses have failed tests of their
supposed intent to pull people out of Scientology. To be safe, I must
assume they are OSA generated and OSA scripted:

AA AA

AJ

Andreas Heldal-Lund - www.xenu.net {target audience:
type 1, 2 & 3 critics}

barb {target: type 1 & 3 critics}

Baron {target: Scientology skeptics}

BM {possible caricature}

Bob {caricature; target: believers of Bob Minton}

Boudewijn van Ingen

Bouncer

Boxingnut

Bremenium

Caswell {target: Scientology skeptics}

Cheradenine Zakalwe {target: type 1 & 3
critics}

Chris Leithiser {target: type 1 & 3 critics}

Concerned_Citizen@newsguy.com {target: average ARS lurker}

Dave Bird {target: type 1 & 3 critics}

David "ptsc" Lebow {target: type 1 & 3 critics}

delafano

Diane Richardson {target: believers of Bob Minton}

Dobe R Mann

Donna Melendez

Don NOTS

dorian@nym.alias.net {caricature; target: believers of Ralph Dorian}

DorianAuthor@nym.alias.net {caricature; target: believers of Ralph
Dorian }

Dorius Arthur {caricature; target: believers
of Ralph Dorian }

durian@nym.alias.net {caricature; target: believers of Ralph Dorian }

Elizabeth {caricature of Elizabeth
Ann Cox -- elizanncox@chesapeake.net}

El Queso {target: Bob
Minton's audience}

El Roto

Feisty {target audience: type 2 critics}

Garry {caricature; target: believers of Gerry
Armstrong}

gs1100

Guillam

I.S.Rennie {target: "jokers and degraders"}

Jack Delad {target: regular Scientologists}

James Wood

jim@linknet.com

JimDBB

JLHartley {target: skeptics}

Joe Cisar {target audience: Type 3 Scientology
critics, conservative tone level}

Jr. Paloma

Kevin Brady {target audience: Ralph Dorian}

Koos Nolst Trenite
{caricature; target audience believes Scientology is "evil"}
[SPLIT HERE BECAUSE OF MAXIMUM LENGTH ON THIS BOARD]

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:11 am

[CONTINUED]
kymus

lameduck@cotse.com

LaserClam

Levi Murphy

Lianna Skywalker

LizabethDawn

lmt_watch@my-deja.com

LRonsScam

M. C. DiPietra

Marc Taylor

Michael Reuss

Mike " unusual" Rinder

mimus

minton@redneck.gacracker.org {used in failed "frame" operation against
Dorian}

Mirele {target: type 2 critics}

Mistmagoo55 (Tory) {Bob Minton's handler,
pawn-master}

Monica Pignotti

Nelson

No User

Patrick Light

Phineas Fogg {target: disagreement with
Scientology management}

Podkayne1

Psych News

Public {target: disagreement
with Scientology management}

Ralph Dorian {caricature}

Rebecca Hartong {dormant}

Roland {target: OT wannabes}

Sam Carmean

sleddog

Sparky

Starshadow {dormant}

Sten-Arne "Anti-Cult" Zerpe
{target: the very naïve}

Steve Zadarnowski

stillwaters@freedom.net

Tampawog

Ted Mayett

the_light@my-deja.com

Theta One {target: lately, Ralph Dorian;
formerly, disagreement with CofS management}

thinks4himself@my-deja.com

Thomas J Best

Tilman Hausherr

Tim Walker

Tommy

TravisSargent {target: skeptics}

UnitSlayer

Virginia {target: believers in "standard" tech}

x

Rob Clark {retired}

xxxmisterearlxxx@aol.com (XxxMisterEarlxxx)

yertletheturtle

Zinj

Zorrosblade..........Z {target: thinking
type 2 and 3 critics}

==============================
My name: Ralph Dorian
My current e-address:
My PGP Key ID: 0x1A7A3ECA
My PGP fingerprint: 222E 252F C976 52F4 B575
CC27 4529 DCC0 1A7A 3ECA


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~~~
This PGP signature only certifies the sender and date of the message.
It implies no approval from the administrators of nym.alias.net.
Date: Fri Apr 6 20:17:31 2001 GMT
From: centurion@nym.alias.net

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Post by admin » Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:13 am

My reply today:

I know this is silly, insisting on communicating with this Dorian
character, but I did initiate it to check out what this really is so
I feel obliged to keep it up a little longer. And it is just starting
to get interesting! :) Dorian is in many ways living up to what I
suspected he would do if he were more than just a little eccentric
critic. I did give him the benefit of the doubt in the beginning
though.

On 6 Apr 2001 20:17:33 -0000, Centurion
wrote:

>Due to recent interactions with the individual behind "Andreas
>Heldal-Lund" , some corrections appear to be in order.

One interesting observation that should be noted is that your
challenge to me when I said I was not OSA was to post on my site
what you had written that you claimed was so damaging to the cult
they would do anything to remove it. Least of all they would do
what I did, offer to host it. When I instantly did, did you send
it to me? Nope, you made some excuse that you were on some
sort of vacation and needed time to learn making web pages
before sending it to me. Did I say you needed to make it into
web pages? No, I asked you to send the text. I would gladly
converted it to web pages for you.

I guess you were just hot air, you got nothing the cult is
afraid of. So I will never get anything to post. To cover your
failed tactic with me your next posts to ARS is titled
"Xenu.net: OSA-sponsored, OSA-created, OSA-run". You need to
discredit me to hide your own failure.

Sorry, that doesn't work here I think.

> [...] To test
>the reaction, I added to my OSA list and subsequently

Ahh, now this is "converted" to a test? Previously you said it
was an error and you retracted it. Are you not to be trusted?
You're the one using tactics here, when do we know your just
honest?

>might preclude an easy escape from Scientology. "Andreas" protested,

If you know so much Dorian, aren't you able to check if my
name is real? Why quotes around it? Do you think I would be
able to be on tv, radio and interviewed in several newspaper
here in Norway if I used a false identity? The cult even
revealed my "personal number" (equiv. to social security
number in US I guess) on their hate page on me once, find
it and run your checks. This is a small country, you can't just
make up a 36 year old life and survive an investigation.

BTW: I've Recently had meetings with the police and authorities
from the capital in Norway and I suspect they did some thorough
checks before they trusted my word. :)

>Due to his polite facade and large following, I decided to give

In Dorian's mind there is no such thing as successful critics.
Except him of course.... Hence all being accused of being OSA.

>"Andreas" the benefit of my doubts. I wanted to rule out some

Hey, your stealing my lines! Copy-cat. ;)

[SNIP]

>"Andreas" reminds me of the sanctimonious priest who preaches the need

First time I've been accused of reminding anybody of a priest. Fun.

[SNIP]

>This is the first of a series of messages on the case against
>"Andreas" and www.xenu.net.

You know I'm looking forward to this.

>Let's start with the easy stuff.
>
>One signature characteristic of an "Operating OSA'er" is that it's
>next to impossible to arouse their suspicions regarding their fellow
>operatives. If a fellow operative gets emotional and reveals his or

Aren't you changing these "signatures" too often even for you?

>her Scientology affiliations, an operative will cast them a blind eye,
>or try to excuse them.

I've been saying for as long as I can remember on ARS that if it
means anything to you to look out for OSA agents then don't fool
yourself by assuming you can make simple rules on how to recognize
them. If it matters then suspect everybody. I have personally
tried to put myself in a position where it doesn't matter who is
or isn't. But I've already tried to explain this to you and you
didn't even bother to reply.

>Consider the following message:
[SNIP POST BY PTSC]

>What more need be said?? The above piece is so obviously coming from a
>Scientologist, _even someone barely familiar_ with Scientology could
>correctly categorize "ptsc".
>
>What about "Andreas"? What did Andreas do?

Andreas, that being me, can't remember even reading that post by
PTSC. You see, I only browse ARS, it's a couple of year since I
read every post.

>If "Andreas" were what he claims to be: an innocent "wog" fighting the
>CofS, fully duped into believing "ptsc" was on his side --- he'd show
>some signs of disillusionment upon reading the above message. It would
>at least arouse his suspicions! But it didn't. "Andreas" showed
>absolutely NONE of the affect one would expect were he what he claims
>to be. I paste the above message in one of my replies to "Andreas",
>and he simply *cut it out* in his next reply. Then . . . well, just
>see for yourself:

With "showed >absolutely NONE of the affect one would expect were
he what he claims to be" do you mean I did not reply to this?
Did you ever consider I might not have seen it?

[SNIP]

>I try to ignite suspicions about OSA on ARS. He tries to dampen them.

Pot and kettle again.

[SNIP]

>>Sorry. I bet OSA is anything but shaking in their
>>pants because of you.
>>
>
>Do you see how he tries to make nothing of a perfectly reasonable
>conclusion? . . . then how he puts a "reverse vector" on it and
>points it at me?

That's your challenge Dorian. I missed your "perfectly
reasonable conclusion" and from what I see so did a lot of
others. But of course, there can't be anything wrong with
*you*.

>Clearly, "Andreas" is NOT what he claims to be. His is the behavior of

So what am I? A Scientology spy that was raised in a secret
Scientology camp from infant and implanted all these false
memories about a happy upbringing in a pretty normal Norwegian
family? All of this just to bloom as a "critic" 4 years before
the millennium? You're next claim is that I'm Miscavige I bet.

>a knowing OSA operative. Though there's much, much more, the above
>alone may be enough to convict him.

Now I *am* getting excited! 8-))

>So much for giving a suspected OSA'er the benefit of the doubt!

So much for letting your imagination free.

>"Andreas Heldal-Lund" is a fraud and a liar, not to mention an OSA
>Scienchiatrist.

Yeah, I got a secret underground command center in the mountain
underneath the apartment I rent. I am also the warden for Xenu.
That's why I called the site xenu.net.

>Look for more on the OSA fraud "Andreas Heldal-Lund" in the coming
>days . . .
>
>;-)

It will be hard to get any sleep now. Sorry, I can't help
finding this incredible funny and at the same time very
fascinating. Even though Dorian might never have anything
to send his posts to ARS sure will make a nice collection
for Operation Clambake!

Take care and lock your doors tonight folks.

Best wishes,
Andreas Heldal-Lund, Nunsteinvegen 9, N-4056 Tananger, Norway
Pho: +47 90 04 32 99 Fax: 90 32 35 46 E-mail: ahl@xenu.net
home.sol.no/~spirous www.xenu.net www.hedning.no/hedning
---------------------------------------------------------------
"Against human nature one cannot legislate. One can only try to
educate it, and it is a slow process with only a distant hope
of success. - Bernard Bernstein
---------------------------------------------------------------
Andreas @ www.xenu.net
[b]- Life is not a test.[/b]

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Post by admin » Sat Apr 07, 2001 12:01 pm

Ralph Dorian just accused me in ARS of using the name of a dead guy. This is really taking off folks! To be continued... :crazy:
Andreas @ www.xenu.net
[b]- Life is not a test.[/b]

Spinn

Post by Spinn » Sat Apr 07, 2001 1:47 pm

Andreas:

I would'ent take much notice of people like that.
What he has to say may seem to be amusing but it's just a tactic to cause suspicion and confusion among the critic's on A.R.S.

The methods he uses are standard O.S.A.

He may seem harmless but he is trying to divert you from your activities that are damaging to Scientology.

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Post by joey » Sat Apr 07, 2001 3:02 pm

Hello. Boy, this Dorian guy has a real confussion in his/her mind. He/she is just crazy, what's all that silly stuff of "critic cathegories"?. Does he/she thinks we'll fall into the cheap trick of suspecting about you?. As you said Andreas, everything in this can be resumed with: :crazy:


Cheers 8) 8) 8)

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Post by clamato » Sat Apr 07, 2001 3:13 pm

Andreas, I had a similar thing going with "Chuckles" in Modemac's guest book a while back. I realized that the purpose was to distract and demoralize. If you get to the point that productive results are not occurring and/or you are becoming upset with it, then it is time to withdraw and reassess.

It is wonderful to try to help people, but there comes a time when you have to decide whether the person really wants to be helped or is just trying to drag you down.

On a different note, in an offline remark you said that whale is good eating. Is it really? For some reason I find this fascinating. Whale? With ketchup? ;)

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Post by admin » Sat Apr 07, 2001 5:41 pm

Hehe, whale tastes like the most tender beef you've ever eaten. Just incredible. Last week a 20 ton whale stranded very close to where I live. We're not all that barbaric so there was a big effort trying to help it free. Sadly it was too injured and later drifted dead ashore on a beach close by. It was buried two days ago.

Well, enough exciting whale events from Norway. :)
Andreas @ www.xenu.net
[b]- Life is not a test.[/b]

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Post by clamato » Sat Apr 07, 2001 7:17 pm

Ok, well, I guess I'll just have to show up at your house for dinner some night.

Anyway, who said Norweigns are barbaric?

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Post by hans » Sat Apr 07, 2001 9:45 pm

Andreas,

Whether this person is OSA or not, Clamato is right, the purpose is apparently to distract, not to help or be helped. Some current discussions on other threads on OC look like the same tactic.

In reading what these people have posted I sense a terrible antagonism coming through from them, someone just aching to pick a fight. Too bad, they will have to fight themselves. Everybody here is too cool to play their game.
-Hans Hansen lives-

Mike de Wold

Post by Mike de Wold » Sun Apr 08, 2001 4:44 am

Andreas,

My two cents is that some people come out of Scientoology so damaged that they see OSA under every bed, just like they used to see psycs or SPs while in the church.

When I first startede reading a.r.s. I soon learned to ingnore postings from Koos, who over several must have written thousands of semi-poetic posts about his alleged communications from the disembodied thetan of L. Ron Hubbard.

(I understand Koos's habit of cross-posting has made him somewhat of a legend in Internet history.)

Ralph Dorian appears to be another such damaged soul. These people are best ignored.

Mike

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Post by Tigger » Sun Apr 08, 2001 5:18 am

Andreas,

I agree that these people should be ignored most of the time. But if they are putting doubts into the minds of legitimate critics about you, at some point it may be necessary to confront them. A.R.S. is so different from OCMB, it is difficult to tell the good guys from the bad guys. The hard thing is being able to tell which ones should be confronted and when.

FWIW An a.r.s. poster e mailed me his strategy. Store up your ammo, use it all in one good shot and then get out of it.
Keeping it going, he said, was not a good idea. They keep pushing your buttons, you keep reacting. A no-win situation.

Good Luck

Tigger
COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS

"If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs of starvation, you are ahead of 500 million people in the world."

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Post by haarek » Sun Apr 08, 2001 1:08 pm

Imagine that OSA wants to distract Andreas
and others on newsgroup ARS. A good way
to create confusion, would be for them
to find one of their nincompoops (shouldn`t
be to difficult):), and tell him to just
post something. :)

Seriously, I don`t think one should
give him too much attention, he thrives
on it.

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