ANOTHER DEFINITION OF WOG???

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Tigger
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ANOTHER DEFINITION OF WOG???

Post by Tigger » Wed Apr 11, 2001 11:05 am

Transfered from a.r.s.:

Re: New poster

Group: alt.religion.scientology Date: Tue, Apr 10, 2001, 1:16pm (CDT-2) From: armstrong@dowco.com (GerryArmstrong)

On Mon, 9 Apr 2001 22:04:47 -0700, "Fluffygirl" wrote:
>"Wayne Bellflower"
> wrote in
> message
>news:FCvA6.1439$Bz.58744@news2.atl...
>>I am new to posting on this >>newsgroup, though I have researched
>> Co$ for many years. It just took
>> me awhile to get the hang of using
>> newsgroups. Thanks to groups like
>> this, and other sites
>> (www.xenu.net, etc.), the truth is
>> out and this "church" has been
>> exposed for what it is. I look
>> forward to reading all the posts,
>> probably with over a nice
>> beverage, waiting for the return
>> of the great Xenu. Keep up the
>> good work and let the Clams have
>> it!

>It's rude to refer to other people
> using pejorative expressions. I
> assume you don't use racist
> epithets, right?

So let's have some consistency.
Yes, when Scientologists cease fair game against all wogs (R) then there will be peace for clams. When you consistently supported Scientology in its attacks on wogs (R) we wogs (R) consistently opposed you.

>Claire
>(who *never* uses the term "Wog" and
> I'm far from the only Scientologist
> who doesn't)

How about squirrel? Do you use that term?

How about SP? Is there a more evil pejorative that SP?

What do you call wogs (R) then Claire?

So will you acknowledge that Hubbard's use of the term wog (R) is an epithet?

What evil has been generated by Hubbard's abundant use of the term wog (R) in your "scriptures?"

If Hubbard's term wog (R) is removed from Scientology "scriptures" because the term is abusive, would the removers be squirrels? Or SPs?

In the War On Wogs (WOW!)(R), Claire, if you don't call the people you're at war with wogs (R) what do you call the war?

My big dictionary says of "wog," by the way: "a pathogenic microorganism ; broadly: an injurious or repugnant organism "

That's how Hubbard meant "wog." The clams complained loudly when someone in Germany referred to them as insects. They have been calling the rest of humanity insects for decades.
I call myself and others wogs (R) with great respect and care. Why don't you use the term? Better yet, why don't you become one?

(c) Gerry Armstrong

End of transfer

Well gee, insects aren't all bad. Some of them are good little soldiers who keep the bad bugs from taking over the Garden Planet, like the ladybug and the preying mantis. Who would want to be a Japanese Beetle,an aphid or a horned tomato worm? And squash bugs really stink.

I bet Hubbad was a flea, termite, or mosquito. One sucks the blood of its victims, one destroys (steals) worldly goods and one infects others with diseases it carries. Heck, he could have been all three and a squash bug too.

Tigger who would love to be a ladybug. :)
COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS

"If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs of starvation, you are ahead of 500 million people in the world."

Anonymous

Post by Anonymous » Wed Apr 11, 2001 11:38 am

My sister got a 'love letter' from a Scientologist in India. I wonder if he refers to his non-scientologist countrymen as 'WOGS' ?

Hi ________,
I am a 43 years old divorcee.
I have two children aged 16 and 11 years who are studying in class XI and V respectively.
I am an exporter of garments and am currently settled in the northern part of INDIA.
I am a spiritualist and have adopted Budhist and scientology as my way of living.
I am leaving for Florida to get trained at FLAG as an OT and an Auditor in the month of April 2001.
I have lived in Russia and am physically well travelled.I stay in a monastry for minimum 45 days at high hills every years to explore MYSELF,the
inner journey.
I stay alone and have no pets but I like dogs as pets.
I am ready to relocate and do not mind cold if you are a warm hearted person.
Regards,
Sudhir
email:rohitsudhir@usa.net

"joginder singh" <arminderca@satyam.net.in>')

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Tigger
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Post by Tigger » Thu Apr 12, 2001 1:53 am

Hi Anonymous:

Very interesting letter. He says he has two children, but he lives alone.
And he is going to Flag this month?

I hope your sister sent him some websites urls to look at. With his searching for perfection, he may be a goner once Flag gets him in its clutches.

Tgger
COUNT YOUR BLESSINGS

"If you have never experienced the danger of battle, the loneliness of imprisonment, the agony of torture, or the pangs of starvation, you are ahead of 500 million people in the world."

zaphod
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Post by zaphod » Thu Apr 12, 2001 3:29 pm

The only definatition and use of the terms Wog I am familiar with is in the U.S. Navy. As used in the Navy, the terms is derisive, but not viciously so. It implies a person who is a novice that has not yet sailed across the equator. It is equated to calling someone a "newbie" or a "'cruit" or a "rookie". When a ship crosses the equator, aka "the Line", there is a ceremony of ritual hazing against the Wogs, and they advance to the higher honorable title of a Shellback.

LRH seems to have never mentally left the Navy. His ship, Sea Org, uniforms, grandiose titles, policies, acronyms, and use of the word Wog, all suggest that he never left the Navy.

Mike de Wolf

Post by Mike de Wolf » Thu Apr 12, 2001 7:12 pm

In England (you Brits reading this correct me if I'm wrong) "wog" is a derogatory term for anyone who is not a white European.

If you see the film "Lawrance of Arabia" (recently released in the USA on DVD), there is a scene where Lawrance brings an Arab friend into the British Officers club and is told by a fellow officer "Get that wog out of here!"

As far as I know, LRH adapted this term sometime around 1960, while he was living at Saint Hill, England. His English audience understood his meaning of it applied to non-Scientologists.

Mike

zaphod
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Post by zaphod » Thu Apr 12, 2001 8:07 pm

Sure, but LRH was in the U.S. Navy in 1943, which would be where he would have first encountered the term Wog. Any entry of Wog or Shellback into any browser will come up with many sites leading to the U.S. Navy. Even the Navy's own site mentions them, and the Shellback ceremony. It still is in use today.

hans
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Post by hans » Fri Apr 13, 2001 9:22 am

Yeh, the Shellback ceremony.

In another time, as a kid on a steamer crossing the equator, I was "baptized" into the Ancient Order of the Deep. The ceremony was held on deck, the Captain presided, and each man, woman and child who had not before then crossed the "line" was formally and gently "ducked" into a tub of seawater, as words were spoken to mark the occasion of importance.

I heard that "wog" (in the Nav) was short for "pollywog". In the ocean of life, those who hadn't crossed the equator were just tadpoles. Naturally in the Navy the ceremony is more like hazing. But it's not done with malice.

http://www.qconline.com/online/authors/bagatelas.html

So, do you think Ron the Bully perverted this honorable ceremony of inducting Shellbacks, into his cruel "overboarding" stunt which he used to punish? And do you think it possible that he was a "wog", having personally never crossed the equator on shipboard? (Doing it in an airplane or on land doesn't count).

That would be funny, and appropriate.
-Hans Hansen lives-

zaphod
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Post by zaphod » Fri Apr 13, 2001 3:15 pm

Dear Hans Hansen,

Yes, I think LRH took a lot of the Navy, and incorporated into Scientology, and even more so, the Sea Org. That is obvious, including the term Wog. Wog is the Navy's equivalent of the Army's "Pogue", spoken with a long O, rhymes with rogue. So if LRH would have joined the Army, he 1) may not have survived WW2, or 2) he would have ultimatly have given himself the rank of Brigadier General and been referring to us as Pogues.

That would really be an interesting search to track down all of LRH's travels and find out if he really ever did cross the equator by ship. Because if he only crossed the equator by airplane, or car, or on foot, he still is a wog.

Mike de Wolf

Post by Mike de Wolf » Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:28 pm

The official Scientology Technical Dictionary definition of "wog" says that the word is based on the British military term that stood for "worthy oriental gentleman."

According to non-scio sources, the origin of wog is a bit more vague, but it is apparent that Hubbard believed he was adapting the British slang for non-white Europeans.

Mike

zaphod
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Post by zaphod » Fri Apr 13, 2001 5:58 pm

We do know that LRH is not British, and was not in the British military, or in "Lawrence of Arabia".

And that his initial encounter with the word Wog would have been the U.S. Navy, in 1943.

don_carlo
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Post by don_carlo » Fri Apr 13, 2001 10:33 pm

Elron was greatly influenced by England. He got his first good tailored suit there, and got adulation and money thrown at him. Since the British meaning of wog is a derogatory term for an outsider, and since he used wog in a derogatory way, I think he picked it up as a shorthand for non-Scientologists. He needed a new term. Calling them "heathen" would amuse some and confuse others (who think that everyone BUT them is heathen). "Infidel" sounds Islamic, and "unenlightened" is both long AND pompous. Also, back then, Scientology was "not" a religion, so religious insults like "heathen" or "pagan" would have been against his own teaching. Plus, most real slurs are one-syllable in English.

My guess is the Navy wog/pollywog ritual did not have much impact on Hubbard, because he did not start as a low-level sailor, unfortunately for the U.S. Navy! ;)

Plus, there were few places south of the equator a U.S. Navy ship would go during World War II, unless it went around the Cape of Good Hope in Africa, and I don't remember hearing Hubbard ever did this.

In the Atlantic, the ships would be escorting supply ships and fighting U-boats in the North Atlantic. The furthest south would be to go through the Panama canal, which is well above the equator. In the Pacific, I believe all the naval battles were fought north of the equator. Even Borneo, where there was some action, is north of the equator. You have to go south of Java, to Australia/New Zealand and I don't think Hubbard did that.

So while he may have heard the word "wog" or "polliwog" in the U.S. Navy, it was probably the tone of the scathing insult used by the British that inspired him to apply this term to non-Scientologists.

Paul Wilkens

Post by Paul Wilkens » Fri Apr 13, 2001 11:05 pm

Yes, I believe "worthy oriental gentleman" is quite a slur. Used in reference to East Indians who spoke good English and were educated in the customs and culture of the English. The English in India would have had first contact with these people before anyone else in India. The English would have liked these people over the other Indians because for one thing they could at least speak English. On the other hand when these "wogs" would leave the room I'm sure the condescending remarks would come out. After all these people are foreigners and aren't white. Wogs; worthy, but not worthy enough because they ain't British. That is pretty much the same attitude Scientologists have towards the rest of the population.

zaphod
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Post by zaphod » Sun Apr 15, 2001 3:37 am

Its all a matter of context. In British Imperial slang it is a racial slur referring to dark skin foreigners. That sort of usage is not hardly the context it is used in Scientology. In the context that it is used in Scientology it follows along the lines of American navy slang.

The Shellback ceremony of crossing the equator applies to everyone, that includes officers. No one is exempt.

luckytogetout
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Post by luckytogetout » Wed Apr 18, 2001 12:29 pm

Zaphod,

I disagree. I listened to enough LRH tapes to know that he was an anglophile who tried to sound British (like Madonna)and used a LOT of British terms. Having grown up in scn, it took me a while to figure out the correct spelling of some words in America, such as recognise/recognize. He used the British spelling in much of his writing. The term wog as used in scn has always stood for "worthy oriental gentleman" as Mike says.

It is meant to be just as derogatory as a KKK member using the "n" word. All non-scn of ANY color are INFERIOR, is the implication and the attitude.

Lucky

don_carlo
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Post by don_carlo » Wed Apr 18, 2001 3:26 pm

Elron was either (1) an enthusiastic bigot against non-Scientologists, or (2) the world's most naive person to think that "wog" was an innocent and neutral term. Based on his writings, I believe "bigot" wins over "naive person."

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