Antipsychiatry.org NOT firends with CCHR!

A place to post and debate the Church of Scientology.
Post Reply
Mike de Wolf

Antipsychiatry.org NOT firends with CCHR!

Post by Mike de Wolf » Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:21 pm

All:

You would think that the folks at http://www.antipsychiatry.org would be allied with Scientology, if not a bonefide Scientology front group.

But no.... About two thirds of the way down their home page, the following message appears:

No Scientologists, please: Volunteers will be asked for assurance they are not affiliated with the "Church" of
Scientology or its Citizen's Commission on Human Rights (CCHR), which have publicized the harm done by
psychiatry but which we want no affiliation with.

It appears that Scientology alienates those who should be their friends.

Mike

don_carlo
Posts: 1592
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2004 5:38 pm

Post by don_carlo » Tue Apr 24, 2001 10:33 pm

Don't be entirely sure, Mike. The site reeks of the same kind of abolutist arguments the Scientologists make. The organization may or may not be Scientology-run but there are probably Scientologists IN it. How many other groups can muster regular rallies following pscyhiatrist conferences, exactly as Scientology used to do?

simplex
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:37 pm
Location: here, there , and everywhere
Contact:

Post by simplex » Wed Apr 25, 2001 10:43 am

It rather appears like http://www.antipsychiatry.org is a group of confused people that attack psychiatry for different reasons than Co$. That is, they are people that have been mistreated by "the system" somehow.

For better and worse they are our friends. And they could re-enforce their positions by adding auditing to their list of therapies that do not work - perhaps they can even help picket Co$?


Anyway their view on therapy indeed look as black/white as that of Co$. Lately there have been a focus on the overuse of therapy - Co$ and other new-age groups plays a part in that.

Overuse is however generally caused by well meaning people that actually belive that everybody needs constant therapy - the effect is that their minds looks somewhat like the face of Michael Jackson. He, and they, apparently think that we should change "the man in the mirror"? :crazy: (Personally I interpret the song as: look at who you really are, and change your behavior to fit that image.)

Naturally therapy is a valid solution in a crises situation. (Say when your face is cracking up, well it kind of a catch-22 is it not....)

It have been said before: do not dwell on your feelings, move on!
Coin: The Simplex version of "emotional intelligence" :)

Simplex
BTW: Scientology have no friends - they have only business associates and they will probably abandon Co$ as soon as the bill must be paid.

pippi
Posts: 732
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2001 11:13 am

Post by pippi » Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:51 pm

I am a Psychiatric professional and I feel that groups like CCHR are so sick, that one cannot even comment on the validity of their 'concerns'. A parallel would be to consider the views of Neo Nazis on the current Israeli / Palestian 'war'.

Most 'Patient groups' do not have a hidden agenda and most are made up of people with illnesses seeking to improve government and public awareness and advocacy for their illnesses.

Many, perhaps most, psychiatric illnesses are chronic, life long diseases that can be difficult to manage under the best of circumstances. I have never seen the word 'cure' used in psychiatric medicine. Medical care is expensive and psychiatric care often requires long term treatment and management. This is time consuming and expensive and not always covered by insurance. Even with appropriate care, over 30% of patients don't take this medications correctly.

Unfortunately, we can't expect mental illnesses to be as easily treated as a dental cavity, a broken leg, or a flat tire. This is a painful and frustrating fact of life and I see the frustration in patients every day.

To veer the subject a little: CCHR maintains that Psychiatry is a decades old plot for world domination (just go to their home page and read this for yourself). They also point to the misconduct of individual psychiatrists, social workers, and even nursing assistants as proof of this evil conspiracy.

Sadly it is true that we humans err divinely and people who are psychiatrists are among them. A recent article in the American Journal of Psychiatry (Am J Psychiatry 158:474-478, March 2001) reported on the incidence of misconduct among physicians and specifically psychiatrists in California. The abstract is below.

I think that publishing this article shows remarkable candor for a criminal cultworld domination conspiracy (The American Psychiatric Association that is :)



Psychiatrists Disciplined by a State Medical Board

James Morrison, M.D. and Theodore Morrison, M.P.H.

OBJECTIVE: This study determined the risk of discipline by a medical board for psychiatrists relative to other physicians and assessed the contributions to such risk. METHOD: Physicians disciplined by the California Medical Board in a 30-month period were compared with matched groups of nondisciplined physicians. RESULTS: Among 584 disciplined physicians, there were 75 (12.8%) psychiatrists, nearly twice the number of psychiatrists among nondisciplined physicians. Female psychiatrists were underrepresented in the disciplined group. Psychiatrists were ignificantly more likely than nonpsychiatrist physicians to be disciplined for sexual relationships with patients and about as likely to be charged with negligence or incompetence. The disciplined and nondisciplined psychiatrists did not differ significantly from a group of 75 nondisciplined psychiatrists on years since medical school graduation, international medical graduate status, or board certification. The disciplined group included significantly more psychiatrists who claimed child psychiatry as their first or second specialty and significantly fewer psychoanalysts. CONCLUSIONS: Organized psychiatry has an obligation to address sexual contact with patients and other causes for medical board discipline. This obligation may be dressable through enhanced residency training, certification exams, and other means of education.

peter
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:17 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by peter » Wed Apr 25, 2001 1:48 pm

TO SIMPLEX
If a man is analog to his picture in the mirror, and the mirroring is even analog to his behavior, there is no need for changing human nature! But if the values, and postulates, conclusion, behavior, etc is disturbed, and thus symbolized by a concave, or a convex mirror, the mirror is thus in need to be changed, into analogous to this individual's time-binding nature!

EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE
As you can see here, "emotion" and "intelligence" are companions since there is no human being with only intelligence, or emotion as isolated phenomenon. But emotion, and intelligence is different types, and thus intelligence cannot be reduced to emotion, and emotion cannot be reduced to intelligence, but I firmly believe that these different types, can explain each other, but never be the one, and the same type!

Emotion-intelligent reaction can be labeled as semantic-reaction, and thus indicate neuro-semantic, and neuro-linguistic issue!
A simple explanation with few explanation grounds is to prefer, except when you need to hide your flaws! - Peter Soderqvist

simplex
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:37 pm
Location: here, there , and everywhere
Contact:

Post by simplex » Wed Apr 25, 2001 3:05 pm

I have mirror like that! :)

I say that an intelligent reaction to your emotions is always in order. You should however not over stimulate your emotions (or your nervous system) by constantly checking them out. (Part of the problem with anti-whatever groups is that they get so emotional about the subject that it takes up all their energy, you probably know that situation from your work?)


The important point is that we evaluate and adjust the "mirror" before we even think about changing our looks. (This is not a linguistic problem, but a question of processing the emotions in an intelligent way (linguistically and other-wise)!)

So the real problem is "how do you simply convert emotions into an intelligent reaction without dwelling?" I do not see a need for a complicated process...

... say, a mirror for emotions that is what we need!

Simplex

peter
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:17 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by peter » Thu Apr 26, 2001 8:49 am

TO SIMPLEX
I will make my issue clearer here, an individual's assumptions of various kind, can be symbolized by a mirror, and when the mirror is plane, his assumptions are in accord with his nature too, since the picture is analogous. A concave, or convex mirror has a disturbed, or aberrated picture (aberration is even a non-Scientology term). The problem here is when, the individual believes, that his concave, or convex picture is his real nature, and because of confused concepts of dimensions, he suffer, and don't know why?

THE ANTI WHATEVER GROUPS?
This is a very broad generalization, so I will point to some particulars here, "anti item groups" are in the main absolutistic, and final "minded" since their concept is static, and not a dynamic infinitely valued, in terms of degrees, and probabilities! And this is an Aristotelian two valued either, or with excluded third, (a black or white orientation). Aristotelian orientation is still valid, but limited useful. For instance, if the answer from a pregnancy test is negative or positive is still workable? An anti-abortion static conviction, is a one valued intensional orientation, in disregard for extensional facts! I refer to my yesterday message, labeled Regarding Abortion. Some of them are prepared to kill, a "mature" doctor, in order to protect an 8 weeks old fetus! I think, I understand, from that point of view, what you mean, with "anti takes up all their "emotional" energy"!

AN EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENT SEMANTIC REACTIONS?
This is a new order of abstraction! I firmly believe that a scientific modern education, with its four dimensional, infinitely valued orientation is the solution to all human problems up to date, not only higher order of abstraction (cortical) theoretical education, but even thalamic (lower nerve centers). Namely moving fingers, neuro-linguistically, pushing computer buttons, in a coherent grammar, and thus indicates through messages, the different orders of abstractions. And disagree, when the orders are confused, or disordered, and even point it out, when it is so, in order to make it possible to differentiate, and thus conscious of abstracting, and natural semantic reaction, as a consequence!

The books by Alfred Korzybski, Manhood of Humanity, and Science and Sanity, in this order, are an excellent education tool, with its rigorously discrimination between different types, and dimensions!

There are two ways to slide easily through life: Namely to believe everything or to doubt everything, both Ways save us from thinking. - Alfred Korzybski!
A simple explanation with few explanation grounds is to prefer, except when you need to hide your flaws! - Peter Soderqvist

simplex
Posts: 244
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2000 12:37 pm
Location: here, there , and everywhere
Contact:

Post by simplex » Thu Apr 26, 2001 10:23 am

Peter,
THE ANTI WHATEVER GROUPS?
I somehow find that my wording is a bit more understandable than yours?

AN EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENT SEMANTIC REACTIONS?
Perhaps we do not define "emotions" the same way? To me emotions are the core of what is human, and as such you should be allowed to hide them if you prefer. As such is is rather unimportant to analyze and correct emotions, what is important is the actions that is caused by emotions.

Say in case of hate (a natural human emotion) we need to prevent actions that are harming others.

When you start controlling and analyzing emotions you are stepping into a very personal area that I belive is non-business and perhaps religious....


Smoke and mirrors? We can probably engage in an endless debate over this subject. Is the image in a perfect mirror any better than that without a mirror? Humans will never have a perfect perception of the world, and I doubt that we need a perfect perception to be real humans! (If we have a perfect perception we are no longer human).

I currently interpret Korzybski's observations as a documentation of the limitation of the human nature. That is, if you stand up and spin around fast your world view will be blurred for some time, and likewise asking for the deep meaning of abstract words - say, "emotions" - we will soon reach a state of confusion.

My conclusion is thus that Korzybski makes us realize the limitations of human nature, and this should upfront make us humbly rethink: how well are we actually doing - and are we moving in the right direction?

As I see it we are not moving in the right direction! We have been very efficient in our engineering of nature, but not very successful! We manage to destroy natural resources at high speed, and we are unable to solve the problems that we cause.


I do thus not find that engineering emotions or "human nature" is a further step in the right direction. We should rather stop our progresses and re-think what we are doing.

Korzybski is perhaps correct in a different way than he intent? Reading his books may make us stop for a short while, but if we still interpret the words from the (human) engineering paradigm (say like Scientology and new-age does) we are still just "talking heads" on the road to nowhere.

Do not misunderstand me - or please do so in a different way. I do not want to invalidate Korzybski or Engineering, but the major outcome of his thinking must be that we are not able to manage our own engineering skills. Scientology is a perfect example of that!

Simplex
Engineering is an other word for manipulation?

peter
Posts: 846
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2001 11:17 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by peter » Thu Apr 26, 2001 1:10 pm

TO SIMPLEX
Your reply is close to not in touch with my message, and it is because you don't understand its content, and I am too bored, to care about it!

However, is botany engineering some kind of manipulation too?

A human being and humanity are part of nature, according to Korzybski. Humanity is a Time-binding, and thus cooperating, symbolizing class of life, very different from animalistic selfish, brute competitions, with tooth, and claws, mere Space-binding animalistic fighting for a place in the Sun!

Time-binders, and awareness about it, are not the same type, as mere space-binders, and thus governed with mental faculties, to understand that nature, shall not be misused, or plundered, because human beings cannot live without nature!

Don't intermix animalistic engineering, with human engineering!
A simple explanation with few explanation grounds is to prefer, except when you need to hide your flaws! - Peter Soderqvist

Peter1

Post by Peter1 » Thu Apr 26, 2001 1:37 pm

A copy is made in Korzybski guest booK

Post Reply

Return to “Opinions & Debate”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests