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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:48 pm 
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caroline wrote:
I think understanding the phenomenon of "exteriorization" is key. It takes precedence in auditing over virtually any other phenomena.


I totally agree, and i moved that subject up, down & all around the topical index earlier on like none other... figuring out where to put it in the outline was essentially my musical chairs incident in organizational hell :)

But ultimately, it got put in whats currently Volume VII - Spiritualism, New Age & Indigenous Beliefs (soon2be Vol8) for detailed coverage... more so for lack of having really juicy Advance Mag /b/ackup new-agey fodder in that area than usage importance-wise, & cuz there's still passing mention of it in earlier volumes so its sort of a trickle down (save better stuff for near-last) topic in my project outline.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:05 am 
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AnonLover wrote:
caroline wrote:
I think understanding the phenomenon of "exteriorization" is key. It takes precedence in auditing over virtually any other phenomena.


I totally agree, and i moved that subject up, down & all around the topical index earlier on like none other... its my musical chairs incident :)

But ultimately, it got put in whats currently Volume VII - Spiritualism, New Age & Indigenous Beliefs (soon2be Vol8) for detailed coverage... more so for lack of having really juicy Advance Mag /b/ackup new-agey fodder in that area & cuz there's still passing mention of it in earlier volumes.


Well, good for you on keeping track of all this. I think one of the sickest things in Scientology is that when someone wants to leave Scientology, their post, etc., the first thing that gets checked in auditing is "Out Int" which basically means there's something wrong with "exteriorization." [Ref. HCOB 6 May 1970R Interiorization Rundown Series 7 Blows Auditing Past Exterior. (1991 ed., Subject Volume III pp. 497-8).]

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Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:28 am 
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In the latest materials outline :: Master Index section,
http://www.scribd.com/doc/57784121/Scie ... ials-Index

i have it noted about inserting a 10th volume between the current Volumes II & III because i got so much more stuff than i allowed for in the abrahamic beliefs theme.

i *think* i got that figured out... and I'm tentatively looking at reworking the initial topical index planning for Volume II into this grouping at the highest level:

Volume II : Old Testament, Semitic Lore & Islamic Beliefs

Volume III : The History of Christianity & Gospel of Jesus


(and all the existing volumes starting with the current #3 will get re-numbered with a +1)


Last edited by AnonLover on Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:24 am 
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Both exteriorization and reincarnation, as CoS sees them, have nothing to do with religious devotion and everything to do with (supposedly) magnifying one's power over the non-real world. I say supposedly because no Scientologist got rich in Las Vegas peeking at their poker opponents' cards, and no Scientologist can prove he was Julius Caesar or Cleopatra, not even to pass a test in classical Latin or Egyptian.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 3:29 am 
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Don Carlo wrote:
Both exteriorization and reincarnation, as CoS sees them, have nothing to do with religious devotion and everything to do with (supposedly) magnifying one's power over the non-real world. I say supposedly because no Scientologist got rich in Las Vegas peeking at their poker opponents' cards, and no Scientologist can prove he was Julius Caesar or Cleopatra, not even to pass a test in classical Latin or Egyptian.


I think Scientologists actually say, among themselves at least, that they're magnifying their power over the real world. And they have decades of excuses to fall back on for not speaking Marcabian or knocking fedoras off at several parsecs.

Exteriorization has a lot to do with dissociation. It is continually used to manipulate people, as an ideal state, and to manipulate people who think they've achieved the state. They are in fact in a very vulnerable and compliant condition.

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INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:13 am 
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caroline wrote:
Exteriorization has a lot to do with dissociation. It is continually used to manipulate people, as an ideal state, and to manipulate people who think they've achieved the state. They are in fact in a very vulnerable and compliant condition.


a dissociation where the description of successes often sounds very similar to islamic teachings of how one feels disconnected from their body when possessed by jinn and watching themselves operate on auto-pilot.

Except Imams have much better tech for exorcism of such states... pray, meditate, drink special holy water and purge the jinn spirits out via violent & endless vomiting in a slight fugue state. but an observable, predictable physical reaction nonetheless.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:55 am 
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AnonLover wrote:
caroline wrote:
Exteriorization has a lot to do with dissociation. It is continually used to manipulate people, as an ideal state, and to manipulate people who think they've achieved the state. They are in fact in a very vulnerable and compliant condition.


a dissociation where the description of successes often sounds very similar to islamic teachings of how one feels disconnected from their body when possessed by jinn and watching themselves operate on auto-pilot.

Except Imams have much better tech for exorcism of such states... pray, meditate, drink special holy water and purge the jinn spirits out via violent & endless vomiting in a slight fugue state. but an observable, predictable physical reaction nonetheless.


Interesting. When Scientologists "achieve" exteriorization and thereafter have trouble, (headaches, body aches and pains, effort, pressures from environment, wanting to blow or trying to blow are some of the "symptoms" per Int Series 6 and 7, Subject Vol 3, 1991 edition) they first go through an indoctrination into the subject, which of course evaluates the exteriorized state as extremely positive, proof that "the individual is not a body but an individual." (Int Series 2; Definition Thetan Exterior). The "trouble" is thereafter addressed with any of a number of auditing rundowns or remedies. At the upper levels, pre-OTs look for and address BTs who have "out-Int" on their cases. In my experience as an auditor at AOLA and Flag, "out-Int" was a very frequent problem.

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Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:49 am 
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caroline wrote:
Interesting. When Scientologists "achieve" exteriorization and thereafter have trouble, (headaches, body aches and pains, effort, pressures from environment, wanting to blow or trying to blow are some of the "symptoms" per Int Series 6 and 7, Subject Vol 3, 1991 edition)


and even more common threads - those are the same symptoms exhibited early on in the Islamic exorcism of jinn process, when an Imam evaluates someone for possession (which typically comes in multiples & legions, just like body thetans) and when the prayers & meditation portion starts, culminating in being violently ill after drinking the special holy water.

i have no readily available reference at my fingertips to share on this at the moment, but i will fetch one or two out when i get to appropriate spot in my project outline later on.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:12 pm 
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AnonLover wrote:
caroline wrote:
Interesting. When Scientologists "achieve" exteriorization and thereafter have trouble, (headaches, body aches and pains, effort, pressures from environment, wanting to blow or trying to blow are some of the "symptoms" per Int Series 6 and 7, Subject Vol 3, 1991 edition)


and even more common threads - those are the same symptoms exhibited early on in the Islamic exorcism of jinn process, when an Imam evaluates someone for possession (which typically comes in multiples & legions, just like body thetans) and when the prayers & meditation portion starts, culminating in being violently ill after drinking the special holy water.

i have no readily available reference at my fingertips to share on this at the moment, but i will fetch one or two out when i get to appropriate spot in my project outline later on.


Fascinating, AL. Here's a placeholder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

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Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:11 pm 
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Another placeholder: (Scientology v. Rosicrucian magic)

Hubbard wrote:
Image

Image


Cf. David Griffin's The Ritual Magic Manual:

David Griffin wrote:
Initiation into any genuine Magical Order or Tradition inevitably includes magical as well as psychological aspects. Appendix V, "Israel Regardie, The Golden Dawn, and Psychotherapy" demonstrates that, from a psychological perspective, genuine self initiation is virtually impossible. Nonetheless, under certain circumstances the solitary student can indeed accomplish the magical function of Initiation through discipline and persistence in the practice of Ceremonial Magic. The magical aims of Initiation are the systematic awakening of certain Forces in the Sphere of Sensation ("Aura" or "Energy Body") of the student, and the strengthening thereof.

The Adept over time learns to embody, transmit, and direct ever increasing amounts of Magical Current. There has been a great deal of misunderstanding regarding Magical Current, the Energy known in Rosicrucian Magic as LVX [lux]. More than an intellectual idea, this Energy is as physically real as electricity or fire and can be felt within and flowing through the body. Furthermore, LVX is the Force with which the Magician invests his Magical Weapons and Talismans during their consecration.

Griffin, D. (1999). The Ritual Magic Manual: A Complete Course in Practical Magic. Beverly Hills, Golden Dawn Publishing.


In The Ritual Magic Manual's Appendix V: Israel Regardie, The Golden Dawn, and Psychotherapy, David Griffin and Cris Monnastre wrote:
When Regardie [Wikipedia: Israel Regardie] was a young man, he fervently wished to become a magician. He considered Aleister Crowley to be the foremost magician of the period and, having introduced himself to Crowley by means of an admiring letter, began to work as his personal secretary in Paris in 1928. After several years with Crowley, Regardie was forced to leave as the result of a painful rupture with his mentor. The trauma caused by this breach wounded Regardie deeply; he later said it took him nearly seven years to recover from it.

Impoverished and confused, Regardie was taken in as a house guest of Dion Fortune, who was living near Glastonbury in southwest England. Fortune was not only a talented magician but a natural clairvoyant as well. Until he died he never forgot her hospitality and generosity during this difficult period.

Dion Fortune influenced Regardie in a completely unexpected direction. She had been instrumental in bringing Sigmund Freud's ideas to England and had written a collection of short stories called The Secrets of Dr. Taverner. Although she characterized these stories as fiction, she said that Dr. Taverner actually existed and that the stories reflected factual case studies in which psychological and magical processes were linked.

It was at Dion Fortune's dinner table that Regardie was first exposed to the ideas of Freud and C. G. Jung. Shortly thereafter, still struggling with the onslaught of emotions stemming from his breach with Crowley, Regardie entered first into Freudian psychoanalysis and later into Jungian analysis. During this phase Regardie became aware of how great a role his own unresolved emotional conflicts from early childhood had played in his rupture with Crowley. Regardie eventually concluded that it was such unresolved infantility that accounted for most of the chaotic group dynamics of earlier esoteric fraternities. This would lead him to insist on the necessity of psychotherapy for anyone seriously practicing any spiritual discipline.

Regardie later moved to the U.S., where he became familiar witli the ideas of Wilhelm Reich and entered into Reichian therapy. He also began to correspond with Reich's daughter Eva, which stimulated him to take a serious interest in the mind-body connection And at length to train as a chiropractor.

Even toward the end of his lite, Regardie continued to respect both Freudian psychoanalysis and the ideas of Jung. He ultimately concluded that verbal therapy of any orientation pale4d in the light of Reich's bodywork, and that the techniques of ceremonial magic would one day become a powerful adjunct to psychotherapy.

As a therapist and a bodyworker, Regardie combined Reich's approach with minor chiropractic adjustments, basic magical techniques, and hatha yoga. In a typical session, Regardie would begin by initiating deep, rhythmic breathing in the client for a considerable period of time. This hyperventilation would create a slightly altered state of consciousness. During this process Regardie would survey various areas of tension on the body and would reduce their tightness with a type of deep and at times painful massage.

Both Regardie and Reich felt that unresolved emotional conflicts were stored in the body as tension. Using a physical approach would release blockages so that life energy, which Reich called "orgone," could pass freely through the entire body. During the course of a session, a great deal of emotion would frequently emerge, which the client was encouraged to express.

Regardie often related Reichian ideas to the magic of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. He was particularly fond of one magical exercise called the Middle Pillar Ritual. In this technique the magician visualizes successive spheres of light at various points above, below, and along the spinal column while vibrating certain words. This generates a certain kind of energy, which, according to Regardie, is identical to Reich's orgone. This energy is then circulated around and through the entire body by means of further visualization.

Legitimate esoteric orders have always been primarily intended to provide a context within which initiation may safely and effectively occur. As will be shown here, there are many parallels between initiation and forms of psychotherapy that take into account the spiritual dimensions of growth. Regardie even advised that the two should be considered as complementary processes, and that initiation should always be accompanied by some form of psychotherapy.

Regardie of course considered Reichian therapy to be the most useful adjunct to magical work. In view of the current lack of trained Reichian therapists, however, other schools of psychology suitable for work alongside magical training are those that include spiritual growth as a part of their paradigm, such as the Jungian and Transpersonal orientations, Psychosynthesis, and the emerging school of Esoteric Psychology.

Why does a candidate for initiation need psychotherapy? Any form of spiritual training, when practiced with enough sincerity and discipline, will eventually activate what Jung calls the complexes of the personal unconscious. These may be defined as infantile emotional patterns left over from very early childhood that revolve around unresolved parental conflicts. These complexes are symbolized in the diagrams in this appendix by the seven-headed dragon. Frequently they are energized by spiritual practices.

Unless the complexes are allowed to emerge into consciousness in a safe and controlled fashion, they can be acted out in dangerous ways. This helps explain why many "spiritual" groups have become dysfunctional and at times even destructive.

Admittedly, combining initiation and psychotherapy does involve some difficulties. Whereas psychotherapy is unlikely to harm the effectiveness of an initiation or of any other genuinely spiritual process, not everyone seeking initiation can afford the substantial expense of psychotherapy. Furthermore the average lay person may find it difficult to distinguish an effective therapist from an incompetent one. Unfortunately, inept and destructive psychotherapists are frequently easier to find than capable ones, and the same holds true for initiators and initiating orders. Far too many esoteric groups are primarily motivated by their leaders' needs for money or manipulative control over people's lives.

True initiation is a process not unlike that of psychotherapy in that the skill and personal ethics of the initiator are crucial to a successful outcome. Moreover a relationship with an unethical initiator can be as damaging as one with an unethical psychotherapist. Anyone seeking initiation thus needs to be extremely discriminating in the choice of an initiator or order.

The seeker also needs to distinguish between initiating orders and personality cults, since far too many spiritual groups have been built around the personalities of charismatic but manipulative leaders. This phenomenon, combined with a disregard for the psychological issues that may arise, accounts for many of the abuses that have plagued the esoteric community.

An analysis of the psychological dynamics underlying initiation will help to clarify why such abuses occur. The initiatic process of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn clearly illustrates the dangers as well as the potential of initiation. But let us first consider the primary differences between initiation and psychotherapy.

Initiation, as its name suggests, may be defined as a new beginning. In the Golden Dawn system, the initiatic process has a magical as well as a psychological component. The magical component may be described as the systematic awakening or ignition of certain forces or energies in the "Sphere of Sensation" of the initiate. (The Sphere of Sensation is the term used by the Ordo Rosae Rubeae et Aureae Crucis to describe what is commonly called the energy body or the aura.)

This process requires an initiator in whom these forces are already awakened and active, since initiation occurs through an actual transmission of energies. Thus from a magical perspective, the relationship between the initiator and the candidate is crucial. In this sense genuine self-initiation, if not altogether impossible, is at least extremely difficult to achieve. It is nonetheless possible, although difficult, to accomplish much of this magical aim of initiation through systematically and repeatedly invoking the correct magical energies using ceremonial magic.

Griffin, D. (1999). The Ritual Magic Manual: A Complete Course in Practical Magic. Beverly Hills, Golden Dawn Publishing.


Compare Body thetans v. Demons, Qlippoth, etc.:

David Griffin wrote:
Psychology and Evocation

One may best understand the function of Magical Evocation within Rosicrucian Magic from a psychological perspective. Modern psychology offers the Magician important insight into processes known to Theurgists for thousands of years. The notion of the Unconscious, an aspect of the psyche lying beneath the threshold of conscious awareness, provides new insight into the nature of the Entities previously understood as Demons. Israel Regardie suggested that: "The term 'complex' has achieved a fairly wide notoriety during the last quarter century since the circulation of the ideas of Freud and Jung. It means an aggregation or group of ideas in the mind with a strong emotional charge, capable of affecting conscious thought and behavior."[7] Living in the dark realm beyond the light of consciousness, the complexes enjoy a sort of semi-autonomy within the psyche.

7. Israel Regardie, The Art and Meaning of Magic (Toddington: Helios, 1964), p. 32.

Whether the Magical Forces, Angels, and Demons exist objectively or rather merely subjectively within the psyche of the Magician is an epistemological question that goes beyond the scope of the present discussion. For practical purposes, it is quite useful to consider the Forces at times as though they were objective and in other instances to treat them as though they were purely subjective psychic contents of the Magician. This is not dissimilar to the scientific understanding of light. We may best understand certain properties of light by considering it as a wave and others by considering light as a particle. We may thus gain new insight into the nature of Demons by considering the Averse Forces as subjective Forces within the Psyche of the Magician. These complexes exist beyond the threshold of consciousness, beyond the light of reason so to speak, in the darkness of the psyche. In Qabalistic terms, the four Worlds of Aziluth, Briah, Yetzirah, and Assiah, with their corresponding Gods, Archangels, and Angels are Forces of Light. They exist in the Light of consciousness. The Averse Forces, Qlippoth, Spirits, and Demons are unconscious Forces, which exist in the dark realm beyond our conscious awareness.

Indeed, the Demons are but the "Shadows of the Gods." A lotus flower opens gracefully in the light, but its root grows in the dark slime beneath the water. Each of the Forces attributed the Tree of Life may be likened to a lotus flower. The Divine Names, Archangels, Angels, and Spheres corresponding to each Force are like the petals of the lotus, bathing in the light of consciousness. The corresponding Qlippoth, Spirits, and Demons are the root of the lotus growing in the dark slime. The Gods, Archangels, and Angels are rational or conscious Forces. The Averse Forces comprise the dark, non-rational, frequently repressed, instinctual, and emotive counterparts of the same.

These Dark Forces exert a great power over consciousness. They move us instinctually, emotionally, and frequently completely unobserved and unnoticed. Who has not experienced being "carried away" by a strong emotion, like anger, which colors consciousness temporarily with nearly irresistible power? Who has not said, at one time or another, "I just don't know what came over me?" Indeed, unconscious Forces play a far more active and fundamental role in day-to-day life then we are normally aware. They manifest autonomously, in response to stimuli in the environment, and independently of our will and awareness. It is the task of the Major Adept to grow in awareness of, to make conscious, and to master these Forces.

From this perspective, Magical Evocation bears a certain resemblance to the process of psychotherapy, since it involves the bringing of unconscious contents to light. By evoking the Averse Forces into the Triangle of Art, the Magician brings them into the light of consciousness, virtually comes to see them, and attempts learn about their nature, function, and mode of operation in the process.

Before the Evocation, this had remained completely unconscious or, so to speak, in the darkness. With time, the Adept learns to quickly recognize these Forces whenever they manifest in his or her day-today life and to direct their operation to the service of greater psychic unity and harmony. As Israel Regardie put it: "No longer are they [the Demons] independent spirits roaming the astral world, or partial systems roaming the unconscious, disrupting the individual's conscious life. They are brought back once more into the personality where they become useful citizens so to speak, integral parts of the psyche, instead of outlaws and gangsters, grievous and dangerous enemies threatening psychic unity and integrity."8

[8] Ibid., p. 36

It is frequently easier to recognize the manifestation of these Forces in retrospect rather than during their manifestation moment-to-moment. These processes are very subtle and extremely easy to overlook. The Magical Diary or Journal is therefore an important tool in becoming conscious of these Forces, as we frequently notice them first during the process of reflection.

Thus we have seen that modern psychology illuminates processes underlying Ceremonial Magic. It would behoove psychologists and psychotherapists as well, however, to pay closer attention to Ceremonial Magic. Through Rituals like Magical Evocation, Ceremonial Magic has a great deal to offer psychology, especially regarding technique and methodology.

Griffin, D. (1999). The Ritual Magic Manual: A Complete Course in Practical Magic. Beverly Hills, Golden Dawn Publishing.

_________________
INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.


Last edited by caroline on Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:10 pm 
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caroline wrote:
Fascinating, AL. Here's a placeholder: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn

Beware ^^Thats the typical anglicized interpretation of Islamic jinn that focus on the mainstream non-islamic take on it thats imo slightly hyped. So its abit more sensationalized than what they actually make it out to be within their belief system where jinn are basically just a commonplace manifestation of sin, and just like sin is everywhere and comes in many forms - so do jinn.

IOW - Muslims don't really see it as a paranormal or supernatural phenomenon like the Christianized world does, and rather its total natural thing in this world and they take in stride. Just like us Christians see the resurrection of Christ as non-supernatural and consider acceptance of that phenomenon as common place, but other major beliefs look at us sideways for having radically paranormal views at the center of our beliefs.

Here's some Better stuff...

This is a reprint of one of the most infamous modern accounts of jinn possession, and although it floated around anonymously for 4-5yrs as the person advocating against the practices of group they felt caused it didnt come forward right away... I've also seen an educational video interview with the martial arts practitioner who wrote this, where he came forward in a talk show format with several islamic scholars, a psychologist and 2 Imams and retold it in his own words, 5yrs after his written account, and didnt hide his real name/identity plus the psychologist commented that the Islamic interpretation of this stuff was far more reasonable & healthy mindset to have about the whole experience (from evaluation, confirmation, and purging of spirits) when compared to the much more elaborate aspects of traditional Catholic derived beliefs about possession & exorcism.

http://www.thejinn.net/chi_jinn_my_story.htm

(altho this one story above is one of the widely cited defacto accounts considered reputable in many circles, other parts of ^^That website is chock full of tinfoil speculation and is way out in left field unless your looking for some conspiracy theory type reading for the entertainment value)

other good stuff here:
http://www.islam-universe.com/Exorcism.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/3 ... 93688.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B20SzrbgKMQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9Tg9kn9hZ0

FWIW - I've always been dumbstruck with the twisted similarities between Hubbard's teachings and Islamic views on Jinn and Exorcism.

I've also been told in passing by a religious scholar that contemporary w/ initial release of Dianetics and Hubbard's pre-scientology popularity, here in North American it was extremely hard to come by english books on Islamic doctrine & theory due to the bias of predominant Christian beliefs. This seemingly checked out and the library of congress also shows many classic texts from 1930-50's widely cited in theology textbooks werent added until late 60's - early 70's.

Spain, France, England and the UK was a different story though - interpretative Islamic materials were readily available and popular reading in the post-theosophy craze and early Dianetics popularity eras.

FWIW - my personal opinionated interpretation is that Hubbard seemingly broke core islamic beliefs in this area up into 4 big chunks, shuffled them around like a shell game, and then painted them in his quirky language to portray them in the opposite light of how the muslims view this stuff.

Here's a topical mapping that I got in my notebook from many years ago, before Anon came around & more information leaked out that made re-evaluating these thoughts as possibly something more than just "weird coincidences".

Striving to be Good & Avoiding Evil ways -- Islamic teachings says this is the true means of prevention for not falling under the ubiquitous influence of Jinn. Hubbard of course defeats these teaching with "man is basically good" and no acceptance of, nor any striving to overcome, the natural faults of mankind.

Exteriorization -- a displaced soul or mental state, something to not only be avoided in islamic teachings but one of the early warning indicators that you might have accidentally succumbed to the influence of Jinn and should go talk to your Imam who is trained extensively on how to spot it, prove it, and then root it out.

Demon circuits & Body Thetans -- Islam tends to classify everything the rest of the world views as "supernatural" and "paranormal" as jinn, and see jinn coming in a very broad gradient of forms that range from the lowest levels being the voice in your head telling you do something bad or some seemingly haunted house scenario raising the hair on the hair on the back of your neck. Up too full blown demons and demonic possession that the rest of the world thinks of when you say the word "exorcism". So "demon circuits" and "body thetans" could be comparable to the low & high extremities of that gradient.

But muslims use "exorcism" in much more generic form, and they have a very different view of it as something more commonplace and an Imam explained to me in my youth in this paraphrased context: the world is filthy place. you cant help that. but when you play in the muck and the filth everyday, your hands get dirty. Prayer is the means of washing your hands and keeping yourself safe from tainted influence of jinn who are always all around you. And if you dont wash your hands regularly, sooner or later your skin is permanently stained and you need cleansed in more forceful way (islamic exorcism)

so now the main question is -- What references do we have where Hubbard speaks about Islamic beliefs in a slightly knowledgeable fashion that would indicate he was familiar with their teachings?

I've seen a few passing digs at "Mohammedans" that were totally typical Americanized ignorance of what Islamic beliefs really are that were commonplace in Hubbard's generation, which was prior to the early beatnik generation bringing forth a pop culture interest in alternative forms of religion being spiritually "cool" to understand.

But I havent seen a reference yet that made me say hmmmm.... Hubbard DID know something about islamic beliefs, erego maybe he did know what he was messing with. (where as currently, my own purely speculative thought is that Hubbard may have backed into these similarities unknowingly, and of course got it all ass backwards and misinterpreted his own discoveries in a false light - which is what the Muslims say is normal thought process when your under the influence of the higher level jinn - whats up is down, left is right, etc.)


Last edited by AnonLover on Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Alot to digest there, AL. I haven't delved into the Islamic comparisons, but I haven't seen a direct connection between Scientology and Islam in the literature. I'm also not at all familiar with Islamic philosophy, or its mystical/magical elements. Interesting too because of the current association between Scientology and Louis Farrakhan. Have you run across a comparative study between Islam and hermetic magic, for example?

Hubbard's admitted background in Rosicrucianism, and an overwhelmingly large number of references in Scientology to magic, particularly Rosicrucian, Golden Dawn magic, do make for a very profitable comparative study, imo. DM has been packing his promo with "New Dawn" symbology, ever since he announced the "Golden Age of Tech" in 1996.

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INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 6:11 pm 
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caroline wrote:
Have you run across a comparative study between Islam and hermetic magic, for example?


Unfortunately, no - nor anything even remotely similar. Comparative studies (in english) involving Islamic beliefs typically come in two flavors: Christian vs. Islam, and Orthodox Islam vs. Islamic inspired derivative beliefs (sufism, baha'ism, etc.)

Which is understandable due to their very broad take on jinn and the influence they exert on the world.

Spread your hands as far as you can reach, and say thats the range of what the Christianized world views as diabolical - the influence of Satan & his demons, erego its ALL evil/demonic and coming directly from the devil tempting souls away from God.

But in the islamic tradition, that same range - only an inch or two is seen as coming directly from the devil's influence, which they feel is much farther removed from our world than Christians make it out to be. And instead, the bulk of that range is the influence of Jinn, which can range from an compelling interest in magic/dark arts, to a mild mannered poltergeist haunting pestering someone, to full blown possession by an evil spirit.

Therefore muslims avoid ALL that stuff like the plague, and since anything remotely related to magic/dark arts is seen as a jinn induced trap - islamic scholars have no compelling reason to study it in anyway shape or form. And where Christians might view someone practicing that stuff as a "lost soul" who needs to find salvation therefore is worthy of preaching at... muslims see it simply as proof Jinn exists and followers are not capable of being a viable convert until AFTER you rid yourself of those influences. Thus, its not surprising there is a lack of comparative works between islamic teachings and dark arts, because just to open yourself up to understanding magic/occult is to fall victim to it in the eyes of a Muslim.

Just like a faithful Christian would never consider hanging an upside down crucifix around their neck for something as innocent as say - a Halloween costume. A Muslim would never consider picking up, let alone reading, a work by Kenneth Grant, Crowley, Gardner, etc. IOW "mysticism" doesnt hold any meaning nor fascination for them, its all sin and to contemplate it in any form is inviting the influence of Jinn into your mind.

So Islamic exorcism IS NOT limited to those who follow the faith - in fact its nearly the complete opposite. You dont have to be baptized & have certain sacraments to your credit like a Catholic priest requires for exorcism. Instead, Imams who specialize in this area, see themselves as tending the outside world around them and have an open door policy for those outside of their faith, where the practice of exorcism is needed the most. You go partake in that experience, they help you - bless you, and send you on your way - no strings attached. If you want to know more about their faith before or afterwards, they tell you dont worry about that right now... recover from your experience, grow strong of heart and come back later if you still feel a calling to know more about our prophet.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:01 pm 
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caroline wrote:
but I haven't seen a direct connection between Scientology and Islam in the literature.


FWIW - Me neither, but I'm not anywhere near done searching for it yet and I hope to pursue this further AFTER my project is done.

And i hope my traditional style comparative presentation of this stuff will make it more palpable to modernized muslims who are more open to taking a cursory look at new age & occult beliefs and offer up their opinions on how they interpret it compared to their own beliefs. (and thus get past their knee jerk revulsion of handing them a whole book by Hubbard where they only need to glance at it a few minutes to know its bad, then politely hand it back to you asap with a look of "i dont event want to touch this book" revulsion. So my hope is - mixed excerpts & varying highlights will make for easier reading & cursory review in those circles)

But getting back to the "fascinating coincidence" worth mentioning side of things... another thing to look at is how well versed the sources Hubbard is known to have drawn from were in Islamic beliefs. And I have dug into that angle a good bit, back in 2008-09. And there is one big ZOMG beacon in that field of interest: Will Durant. who *supposedly* introduced the Christianized world of his era to a basic but marginalized understanding of Muslim beliefs and sorta showed it didn't really fit the bill of "those who follow a false prophet that condemns their souls to hell" that the ancient catholic church always made Islam out to be to justify the crusades, religious oaths of genocide and other vengeful/murderous/plundering shenanigans.

I've gathered widely available works by Will Durant here, but have not yet dug into this farther to form an opinion on what Hubbard may or may not have learned about Islamic beliefs from Durants works: http://www.scribd.com/collections/28488 ... -on-Scribd

But as can be seen in the "Will Durant - The_story_of_civilization - Index" document, there is indeed Islam and related topics in that tome.

So here's a fun speculation to ponder just for grins... what if Hubbard DID indeed co opt some of these islamic teachings in a very twisted way. And then covered his tracks of what he drew from with a BIG misdirection maneuver to point towards religious influence in his works coming from a completely different direction. Like say for example, point & gesture towards Maitreya and the knowledge discovered by Buddha, while blatantly stealing from Mohammad.

In a predominately Christianized world with a fascination for the occult + eastern beliefs thanks to that blasted Blavatsky and her minions, who would ever think to even look for answers & reasons in Hubbard's poppycock, in Islamic teachings?

And when i embrace my inner tinfoil and speculate on that just for entertainment sake, i think ^^That would be helluva an effective trick to CYA and make debunking/exposing the truth extremely hard when the answers lie in the last place people think to look. And if Hubbard didnt want people looking in the right direction for the real roots of his so-called "religious philosophy" i would suspect that yes - he would avoid mentioning it much.


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 Post subject: Re: [WWP] Scientology Religiosity? (Research Packets & Dox)
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:24 pm 
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So interesting!

I think there's also something of a parallel in attitude with Jewish mysticism (Cabala) and the "magic" evident and claimed in Scientology. For example:

Z'ev ben Shimon Halevi wrote:
The only thing that separates Tepheret from Kether is an unseen Sephira known as Daat or Knowledge, which functions only in particular conditions.

[...]

Image

The Sephiroth on the Tree might be regarded as a system of functions in a circuit through which flows a divine current. (p. 32)

[...]

Above Tepheret on the axis of consciousness lies the invisible Sephira of Daat or Knowledge. Placed below the Crown, it represents in man the point where he does not just know of, but is. It is in this instant that his individuality vanishes and he may experience -- or non-experience -- union with the Divine Kether. At rare moments in meditation, we are told such a phenomenon occurs. One vanishes not into dreams as is mostly the case, but into nothing -- or No-thing. A man who attains this state might well describe a void -- an abyss in which the ego dies. From this we get many misunderstood commentaries about the annihilation of the self. Perhaps the nearest parallel in ordinary life is of love, when the lover totally forgets himself in the beloved, only in this case the 'dark mistress' Shakespeare speaks of in the sonnets does not sue for breach of promise once the affair is over. This love is of a cosmic order, the first step in the courtship between the heavenly bridegroom of Kether and his bride in earthly Malcut. Daat is the veil, beyond which lies knowledge and being of the Objective Universe. (p. 42)

Halevi, Z. (1972). Introduction to the Cabala: Tree of Life. York Beach: Samuel Weiser, Inc.


Both Hubbard's definition and claims for Dianetics and Scientology involve, I believe, the function of "Daat."

Hubbard wrote:
SCIENTOLOGY, 1. it is formed from the Latin word scio, which means know or distinguish, being related to the word scindo, which means cleave. (Thus, the idea of differentiation is strongly implied.) It is formed from the Greek word logos, which means THE WORD, or OUTWARD FORM BY WHICH THE INWARD THOUGHT IS EXPRESSED AND MADE KNOWN: also THE INWARD THOUGHT or REASON ITSELF. Thus, SCIENTOLOGY means KNOWING ABOUT KNOWING, or SCIENCE OF KNOWLEDGE. (Scn 8- 80, p. 8 ) [...] 7. the science of knowing how to know. It is the science of knowing sciences. It seeks to embrace the sciences and humanities as a clarification of knowledge itself. Into all these things—biology, physics, psychology and life itself—the skills of Scientology can bring order and simplification. (Scn 8-8008, p. 11) [...] 14. an applied religious philosophy dealing with the study of knowledge, which through the application of its technology, can bring about desirable changes in the conditions of life. (HCO PL 15 Apr 71R)

Hubbard, L. R., (1975) Dianetics and Scientology Technical Dictionary. Los Angeles: Church of Scientology of California Publications Organization.


Hubbard wrote:
It is a purpose of Dianetics to pass man across the abyss of irrational, solely reactive thought and enter him upon a new stage of constructive progression to the ultimate goal.

Hubbard, L. R. (1951). Dianetics: The Original Thesis. Los Angeles, Church of Scientology of California, Publications Organization, United States.


Also cf. Aleister Crowley's Qabalah studies, where he gives Daath an attribute "Babe of the Abyss."

Crowley wrote:
Image

Crowley, A., Desti, M., Waddell, L., & Beta, H. (1997). Magick: Liber ABA, book four, parts I-IV. York Beach, Me: S. Weiser.


This may relate:
From Biblegateway.com wrote:
Genesis 2:17

17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die."


Related: Science of Survival and The Tree of Death

_________________
INTELLIGENCE SPECIALIST TRAINING ROUTINE – TR L
Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively.
Commands: Part l “Tell me a lie”.


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