Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

operatingwog · **Joined:** Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:32 pm **Posts:** 500

Don Carlo wrote:

OT levels are meaningless if a few high-school drop-outs at Sea Org can revoke them, just because you're not totally obedient.

The abuse consists in conning people into buying a piece of paper for tens of thousands of dollars. The comical idea that spiritual gains can be revoked merely confirms this.

'Alert' · **Posted:** Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:21 pm

operatingwog wrote:

Don Carlo wrote:

OT levels are meaningless if a few high-school drop-outs at Sea Org can revoke them, just because you're not totally obedient.

The abuse consists in conning people into buying a piece of paper for tens of thousands of dollars. The comical idea that spiritual gains can be revoked merely confirms this.

I contend "the abuses" are easily attributable to what hubbard says/wrote about those wanting to 'leave' or seek a transfer.

Quote:

HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 28 NOVEMBER 1970
Remimeo
Class VIIIs
Class VIII Chksheet
C/S Series 22

PSYCHOSIS

Through a slight change of procedure on certain preclears I have been able to view the underlying motives and mechanisms of psychosis.
Very possibly this is the first time the mechanisms which bring about insanity have been fully viewed. I must say that it requires a bit of confronting.

The alleviation of the condition of insanity has also been accomplished now and the footnote in Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health concerning future research into this field can be considered fulfilled.
The things a C/S should know about insanity are as follows:

HIGHER PERCENT

About 15% to 20% of the human race apparently is insane or certainly a much higher percent than was estimated.
The truly insane do not necessarily act insane visibly. They are not the psychiatric obvious cases who go rigid for years or scream for days. This is observed only in the last stages or during temporary stress.
Under apparent social behavior the continual crimes knowingly committed by the insane are much more vicious than ever has been catalogued in psychiatric texts.
The actions of the insane are not “unconscious”. They are completely aware of what they are doing.
All insane actions are entirely justified and seem wholly rational to them. As they have no reality on the harmful and irrational nature of their conduct it does not often register on an E-Meter.
The product of their post duties is destructive but is excused as ignorance or errors.
As cases in normal processing they roller coaster continually.
They nearly always have a fixed emotional tone. It does not vary in nearly all insane people. In a very few it is cyclic, high then low.
All characteristics classified as those of the “suppressive person” are in fact those of an insane person.

The easiest ways for a C/S to detect the insane are:
1. Pretending to do a post or duties, the real consistent result is destructive to the group in terms of breakage, lost items, injured business, etc.
2. The case is no case gain or roller coaster and is covered under “PTS symptoms”.
3. They are usually chronically physically ill.
4. They have a deep but carefully masked hatred of anyone who seeks to help them.
5. The result of their “help” is actually injurious.
6. They often seek transfers or wish to leave.
7. They are involved in warfare with conflicts around them which are invisible to others. One wonders how they can be so involved or get so involved in so much hostility.

[...]

Now, how is not the abuse of such people as Micheal Pattinson attributable to hubbard himself?
That's right, when logic is applied one arrives at a specific conclusion.
To whit, C/S Series 22 was something that predates Miscavige and the things said to be only because of DM being at the helm.

Karen#1 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:27 am

Michael Pattinson ~~ TARGET of CHURCH ABUSE and THREATS.

Using her position as President of Celebirty Center in Paris, Sarit Rosenberg kept Michael under a "Non-Enturbulation Order."

This is one step away from a Declaration of Suppressive Person. The year is 1991. Unlike nowadays where an SP declare is posted on the web as a Badge of honor, back in 1991 in meant severed connections from one and all. It was a threat of one's entire communication structure. Doctor, dentist, CPA you name it.

Always deeply entrenched in Financial Irregularities, Sarit cancels his WISE Charter membership and the C of $ keep the $6000. No refund. Just like the "CHURCH" ~~ hammer, slaughter, wage war, attack, dramatize maliciousness, do everything to destroy the new "ENEMY"/parishioner BUT KEEP THEIR MONIES. Hang on tight to the funds !

The CULT tightly hangs on to the "donations" in such situations....

Now a full blown black propaganda campaign starts in earnest.

Michael is publicly discredited to one and all.

Using the same technique used on David Mayo's ACC, members were carefully coached to ask for REFUNDS of Michael's association. The pawns used by the CULT faithfully called in to "disconnect" from Michael.

It was a vicious campaign to DESTROY him UTTERLY, both by character assassination and by THUGGERY, BULLYING, SUPERIOR DOMINATION of FORCE.

SUMMONED TO FREEWINDS ON THREAT OF DECLARE

$1500 a week and $8500 for EACH 12/5 hours of police polygraphing sec checking !
Show me da money !!!!!

This could run into 6 figures in weeks !!!!
YOU pay for the brutalization.

Imagine that, they SEC CHECK you hour after hour and you PAY for this

Almost $1000 an hour !

Quote:

Suddenly, on May 25th 1991 I got a phone call from Miss McNocher, on the Freewinds ship saying that she had received more reports on me and that the Religious Technology Centre had become alarmed at the contents. She said, in no uncertain terms, that unless I arrived at the Freewinds that weekend (she called Friday afternoon) I would be "declared S.P." (that is the Scientology "excommunication" from the group I had been threatened with earlier by Sarit Rosenberg). Basically, I had to pay for a flight to Nassau, Bahamas, stay a time on the Freewinds ($1,500 per week at the time) and get there the day after next, abandon my work, and pay other costs all because Sarit Rosenberg had written lies about me. This, in addition to all the other actions taken against me by the C. of S. . were too much, and I had what amounted to a nervous breakdown.

......to be continued

http://www.lermanet.com/michaelpattinson/

Tenor · **Joined:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:23 pm **Posts:** 215

operatingwog wrote:

Don Carlo wrote:

OT levels are meaningless if a few high-school drop-outs at Sea Org can revoke them, just because you're not totally obedient.

The abuse consists in conning people into buying a piece of paper for tens of thousands of dollars. The comical idea that spiritual gains can be revoked merely confirms this.

Hi Karen#1,

Hilarious photo! It's a shame that it has so much truth to it, that so many are so wrapped up in the "organization" that they've completely lost sight of the reason those little pieces of paper exist. In the worthy gentlemens' world, "the sheepskin" just opens doors, and after a while it is the resume, the actual experience and accomplishments that count. The purpose of Scn is to audit and enable people to overcome what they refer to as their problems, on their own terms, and of their own volition. The organization was supposed to be there solely to make that easier to do. Today the Co$ appears to have only one purpose, to amass wealth and suppress people. Total loss of direction.

There's a story on ESMB or WWP about Sheila (forgot the last name) from Chicago who apparently recently got out of Scn. She's not a celebrity or high-up in Scn, but her story is full of the disaster the Co$ has become, and of what the "ordinary" people there endure on a daily basis.

Tenor.

Gumbythetruth · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:35 am

operatingwog wrote:

10/10

Karen#1 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:32 am

I feel for Michael as I review his story. I too, like a fool obeyed these draconian SUMMONS.

I too was ORDERED to the Flag Land Base some 6 months after leaving the Sea Org under threat of Declare.

And I obeyed ! My former CPA Jim Jackson had written a "KNOWLEDGE REPORT" on me. and even though it contained falsehoods ~~~ It cost me $50,000 to defend myself in further mind numbing sec checks. This was coupled with being in lockdown for donations between sessions. It was macabre, it was ghastly, it was a vampire experience.

I sat there meek and mild enduring it. Aaaaaaaaah my foolishness ! Adding more and more DEBT to credit cards to PAY THEM to POLICE POLYGRAPH ME ! "Not auditing you" sec checks !

They wanted me to write a success story on the dog's breakfast cycle. I refused. A SUCCESS STORY for police polygraphing for 50 hours.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I refused to write a Success Story, they REFUSED to let me off the base. No success story = confined to the Fort Harrison.

So I BLEW ! I had my own rented car and I fled. I knew they would pursue me at the airport...I knew the drill. So I checked into the Mariott at Tampa and stayed their a couple of days before grabbing a flight back to Los Angeles. My power was starting to return.

I came home and shredded my "CERTS" . I had this fabulous shredder I named JAWS. I shredded a lot of stuff. Symbolically that was helpful.

But I like to look at the brighter side. The glass 1/2 full. My 2 enforced trips to Flag were draconian and I got wise to the mechanics of Flag and how dark and vampire like it was becoming way ahead of the Internet reports.

I never returned.

Karen#1 · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:29 am

Because the Sec Checks on me at almost $1000 an hour were NOT producing a whole lot,
The CS FSO "Flag Service Org" decided to fluff my payments and used hours with

::::::::::DRUM ROLL:::::::

another Joberg Sec Check !

My 13th Joberg Sec Check !

So I had to sit there and make my needle float on questions like this:

Have you ever practised cannibalism?
Have you ever divulged government secrets for pay or political reasons?
Have you ever done any illicit diamond buying?
Have you had anything to do with a baby farm?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is *CHURCH* of Scientology attack methods on one its own (at the time)

even THOUGH they damn well knew every square inch of my life for the previous 20 years were
within the Sea organization !

caroline · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:08 am

Karen#1 wrote:

I feel for Michael as I review his story. I too, like a fool obeyed these draconian SUMMONS.

I too was ORDERED to the Flag Land Base some 6 months after leaving the Sea Org under threat of Declare.

And I obeyed ! My former CPA Jim Jackson had written a "KNOWLEDGE REPORT" on me. and even though it contained falsehoods ~~~ It cost me $50,000 to defend myself in further mind numbing sec checks. This was coupled with being in lockdown for donations between sessions. It was macabre, it was ghastly, it was a vampire experience.

I sat there meek and mild enduring it. Aaaaaaaaah my foolishness ! Adding more and more DEBT to credit cards to PAY THEM to POLICE POLYGRAPH ME ! "Not auditing you" sec checks !

They wanted me to write a success story on the dog's breakfast cycle. I refused. A SUCCESS STORY for police polygraphing for 50 hours.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I refused to write a Success Story, they REFUSED to let me off the base. No success story = confined to the Fort Harrison.

So I BLEW ! I had my own rented car and I fled. I knew they would pursue me at the airport...I knew the drill. So I checked into the Mariott at Tampa and stayed their a couple of days before grabbing a flight back to Los Angeles. My power was starting to return.

I came home and shredded my "CERTS" . I had this fabulous shredder I named JAWS. I shredded a lot of stuff. Symbolically that was helpful.

But I like to look at the brighter side. The glass 1/2 full. My 2 enforced trips to Flag were draconian and I got wise to the mechanics of Flag and how dark and vampire like it was becoming way ahead of the Internet reports.

I never returned.

I recalled another shredder named Jaws in Scientology history and came up with Laurel Sullivan’s testimony in Scientology v. Armstrong I, LA Superior Court case no. C 420153 on May 24, 1984.

Attorney Michael Flynn is questioning Ms. Sullivan:

Armstrong 1 Trial Testimony wrote:

Q Now, in early 1980 do you recall the threat of a governmental raid?
A Yes.
Q And what was that?
A Well there had been a raid and it seemed that the Guardian’s office had information from somewhere that there was another raid imminent, and their concern was that the Gilman Hot Springs property would be raided because at that time our security in our location was getting to be pretty well known, and what was going on there was getting to be pretty well known, and so they suspected that a target for an attack or a raid would be Gilman Hot Springs.
3053
At that time as an executive, I was briefed with other heads of the organizations at Gilman Hot Springs that that looked like it was going to occur and that we were going to go on kind of an all-hands alert to handle that situation.
Q And what was done to handle it?
A Well the major thing that was done was to get rid of extraneous material that might be taken in the shredding project.
Q And how massive a shredding project took place?
A Well, in the garage there was a top of the line shredder that we used to call Jaws which was a massive machine that went 24 hours a day.
There were also teams which buried material under the floorboards and in the grounds of the property which is about a square mile, an ex-golf course, 27 hole golf course. So they were out digging and that sort of thing.
Q What types of material was buried?
A Valuable documents that we didn’t want to shred but which were so sensitive that they couldn’t be found or seen.
Q Such as the Commodore’s Messenger logs; were they buried?
A Yes.
Q What were they?
A They were a record of every order he ever gave
3054
on the ship and the person’s response to it on a 24-hour basis.
Q And the orders while he was a La Quinta and Gilman Hot Springs, et cetera?
A Yes.
Q And those Commodore Messenger orders reflected the control mechanism of L. Ron Hubbard throughout
that period of time of Scientology organizations?
A Yes, in two ways, by substance and by pure volume.
Q What was the volume of it?
A Many ledgers, stacks of ledgers.
Q Approximately how many people were involved in the shredding process?
A Well, everyone on the property was involved, and at that time I believe there was about 180 people, but people who were engaged in the motor pool and grounds were, of course, didn’t have very much material to go through, so they weren’t involved for the entire time, maybe a couple of hours.
Q What were the ground rules or the criteria by which documents were selected to be shredded?
A Well, anything that indicated that L. Ron Hubbard controlled the church or was engaged in management was to be shredded.
Q Do you know why that was, Miss Sullivan?
A Yeah. It was so that if there was a raid, that no information about his control of the church would be
3055
in the hands of the opposition.
Q And do you know whether that had to do with inurement issues and money issues as to who controlled Scientology moneys?
MR. HARRIS: Objection; compound and leading.
THE COURT: Overruled.
Q BY MR. FLYNN: And incidentally at that time were you familiar with the practice of the board of directors giving undated letters of resignation?
A Yes.
Q And over how long of a period had you been familiar with that practice?
A Since approximately 1974 on the ship. I knew about OTC and I had heard comments about it earlier.

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50k/legal/a1/2480.php

And from the decision in Armstrong I June 20, 1984:

Judge Paul G. Breckenridge, Jr. wrote:

In January of 1980 there was an announcement of a possible raid to be made by the FBI or other law enforcement agencies of the property. Everyone on the property was required by Hubbard’s representatives, the Commodore’s Messengers, to go through all documents located on the property and “vet” or destroy anything which showed that Hubbard controlled Scientology organizations, retained financial control, or was issuing orders to people at Gilman Hot Springs.

A commercial paper shredder was rented and operated day and night for two weeks to destroy hundreds of thousands of pages of documents.
During the period of shredding, Brenda Black, the individual responsible for storage of Hubbard’s personal belongings at Gilman Hot Sprints, came to Defendant Armstrong with a box of documents and asked whether they were to be shredded. Defendant Armstrong reviewed the documents and found that they consisted of a wide variety of documents including Hubbard’s personal papers, diaries, and other writings from a time before he started Dianetics in 1950, together with documents belonging to third persons which had apparently been stolen by Hubbard or his agents. Defendant Armstrong took the documents from Ms. Black and placed them in a safe location on the property. He then searched for and located another twenty or more boxes containing similar materials, which were poorly maintained.

http://www.gerryarmstrong.org/50k/legal/a1/283.php

In cyber space, it looks like much the same thing is happening, an operation to shred evidence that Hubbard controlled Scientology and Scientologists, had the same financial control Miscavige has, and was issuing orders to people at Gilman Hot Springs, including orders to brutalize Scientologists and fair game wogs.

The point is that Karen knows Knowledge Reports and "police polygraph "sec checking are standard Hubbard procedures for people who want to leave. It's impossible that Karen did not deliver sec checking with the E-meter. Sec checking is a Class II skill, and Karen was a Class XII in the Sea Org. She has written highly charged and black PR language about the E-meter while still promoting that she delivers the entire Bridge, with an E-meter, of course. This is dishonest.

It is frankly cruel of Karen, and any other Scientologists, to continue the charade that Miscavige Scientology is black and Hubbard Scientology, and now Indie Scientology, is white. It is fraudulent, and she is benefiting from it.

I am grateful for whatever Karen says that is the truth. I cannot be grateful for her obfuscation and for her refusal to acknowledge Scientology's victims who have seen through the charade.

J. Swift · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:46 am

Caroline, I think that you and Gerry should clean up your own house before you preach to others.

julenissen222 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:01 pm **Posts:** 84

J. Swift wrote:

Caroline, I think that you and Gerry should clean up your own house before you preach to others.

Dear J. Swift can you please just shut up.... no.. seriously... I mean it.. just take your debates anywhere else.

I dont think I've seen so many personal attacks as you have done in this thread since pitbull was on the board. And even when I reported you to the admins, and those posts got removed, you still continues on the same path?

If this thread was called "Karen#1 monolog" or just "Karen#1 stories" then there wouldnt be reason for anybody to debate it in this thread, but she didnt name it that, she calls it a "Discussion". Where is the discussion?

When Gerry or anybody from his camp points out anything, you try, in almost every single post of yours, to character assassination Gerry. Dont you have any shame man? From an outsiders point of view it feels wierd to read this thread and feel more sorry for Gerry than all the people in Karen#1 stories, because of you J. Swift.

And with that I ask the admins to have J. Swift banned for a couple of weeks to cool down. This is just childish.

J. Swift · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:39 pm

julenissen222, Gerry and Caroline launch personal attacks on Karen#1 whenever she posts. Their "associate" Veda does the same thing at ESMB. I respond in order to address the Armstrong lies and attacks on Karen#1.

'Alert' · **Posted:** Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:45 pm

julenissen222 wrote:

J. Swift wrote:

Caroline, I think that you and Gerry should clean up your own house before you preach to others.

Dear J. Swift can you please just shut up.... no.. seriously... I mean it.. just take your debates anywhere else.

I dont think I've seen so many personal attacks as you have done in this thread since pitbull was on the board. And even when I reported you to the admins, and those posts got removed, you still continues on the same path?

If this thread was called "Karen#1 monolog" or just "Karen#1 stories" then there wouldnt be reason for anybody to debate it in this thread, but she didnt name it that, she calls it a "Discussion". Where is the discussion?

When Gerry or anybody from his camp points out anything, you try, in almost every single post of yours, to character assassination Gerry. Dont you have any shame man? From an outsiders point of view it feels wierd to read this thread and feel more sorry for Gerry than all the people in Karen#1 stories, because of you J. Swift.

And with that I ask the admins to have J. Swift banned for a couple of weeks to cool down. This is just childish.

The only point I cannot agree with is that J. Swift is disciplined for what he is trying to do. Let him continue to show that his partisan approach is ostensibly less about helping people and more about placing himself in the favor of others

I find it unsettling that Tamasin-SP feels as though she is being stifled from having an "opinion and debate" in the forum specifically designed for that exact purpose. For Tam to be run-out of this thread for asking questions or voicing debate/opinion seems to be contrary to what Andreas envisaged for his MB.

Maybe people need to again avail themselves of what Admin desires for his place as opposed to what individuals may want

viewtopic.php?f=108&t=13922

julenissen222 · **Joined:** Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:01 pm **Posts:** 84

J. Swift wrote:

julenissen222, Gerry and Caroline launch personal attacks on Karen#1 whenever she posts. Their "associate" Veda does the same thing at ESMB. I respond in order to address the Armstrong lies and attacks on Karen#1.

You repeat and repeat the same kind of personal attack again and again. Even when I point that out to you, you dont adress the content of my reply to you, you just attack Gerry again. I am way beyond bothering to personal insult you, and just feel "dont care" about this thread anymore, because of you. That is really bad, because there is alot of importaint information in this thread.

Tenor · **Joined:** Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:23 pm **Posts:** 215

Karen#1 wrote:

Because the Sec Checks on me at almost $1000 an hour were NOT producing a whole lot,
The CS FSO "Flag Service Org" decided to fluff my payments and used hours with

::::::::::DRUM ROLL:::::::

another Joberg Sec Check !

[snip]
even THOUGH they damn well knew every square inch of my life for the previous 20 years were
within the Sea organization !

Hi Karen#1,

Please, keep posting! It's hard to read, but it sure does pull the wool from over my eyes! This convinces me more than ever that it is a horrifying misuse of Scientology by brainless idiots that is the root of the problem!

I'm not familiar with this "sec checking"" at all, and I wonder if you would please briefly explain the original purpose and use? I know enough to know that if someone has committed crimes, then 'fessing up to those will relieve the individual. Even criminals have said that confession, even when it means jail, is a relief, and gives them freedom. Catholic confessional is designed to relieve and seek forgiveness (and they don't charge $1,000 bucks an hour). And I believe I can grasp that once upon a time long ago, there were in fact worries about unfounded attacks on the Co$, from what I've read, by the crowd whose status quo and self interest were threatened. That is a familiar story all up and down the pages of mankind's recorded history. And today's modern corporations worry about spies. But this stuff you report doesn't seem to have any purpose at all! From what I've read and heard of, it is apparently very extensively used these days, but without rational thought at all.

And close to $1,000 bucks an hour is simply outrageous. Enforcing it is worse.

Tenor.

Dorothy · **Posted:** Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:47 am

I would really like to see this thread stay on topic without the heckling that has been going on. This is a discussion of abuse incidents that happened at Int base. Karen has been extremely gracious and has answered every question that actually relates to the thread. It is not a discussion about how LRon was an evil man, nor is it a discussion about Karen's views about LRon or scientology. But some posters continue to heckle Karen about her views and other topics not related to this thread. READ the thread title. It DOES NOT SAY a discussion of Karen's views about Hubbard. If you want to discuss THAT, please start another thread for it.

not a thread about Gerry Armstrong either

Discussion of Abuses at Int Base, Riverside

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